HOI4 Dev Diary - Naval Updates

[Broletariat90]

"Nation forming"? Does this mean we can choose what land to give a released country?

Maybe the Greater Germanic Reich? or Italian Empire? Franco-British Union? But knowing the Devs, I wouldn't be surprised if its something like the neo-Aztec Empire....

 

[pnt]

Does the new sub detection logic increase defense for detection over time? At the moment technologies and doctrines only increase submarine detection (both for the sub and surface units), but do not reduce sub visibility (later subs could dive deeper and had radar detectors, snorchels, etc). It seems that without addressing visibility the issue of subs being detected instantly could resurface later in the game.

 

[walt526]

Does the new sub detection logic increase defense for detection over time? At the moment technologies and doctrines only increase submarine detection (both for the sub and surface units), but do not reduce sub visibility (later subs could dive deeper and had radar detectors, snorchels, etc). It seems that without addressing visibility the issue of subs being detected instantly could resurface later in the game.

https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Naval_units

Sub visibility:
I: 30
II: 25
III: 15
IV: 10

 

[Axe99]

P.S. Does this help...enable?

View attachment 333769

Warship Vol I is great . Picked that one up last year with Vol II (haven't read Vol II yet - Pen & Sword and US Naval Institute Press had good sales on almost back-to-back, so I now have no money and a bookshelf full of things waiting for me, lol). They aren't the most accessible books (they're excellent, but I wouldn't recommend them as a 'first naval book').

Here's a pic of HMS Starwort from there - sadly, the quality of printing back then means the pics aren't quite as clear as they are in more modern editions, but they're still good

 

[Pyro157]

so I now have no money and a bookshelf full of things waiting for me, lol

Still worth it!

 

[pnt]

https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Naval_units

Sub visibility:
I: 30
II: 25
III: 15
IV: 10

But the surface visibilities are 10,10,10,8. So the question is how they are used. In reality submerged subs were never detected - they were always attacked while on diesels (surface or possibly snorchel). Evasion while submerged was important after they launched an attack and needed to evade the escorts.

However, if a surface fleet on patrol uses submerged visibility, you have DD IV with +140%, which goes on top of doctrine (50 or 60% for BS or FiB), for a total of 360-384% of the base value, while a DD I with +50% early on would have 150% of base value, resulting in a change of 2.4-2.56. Then, since the visibility decreases by factor 3 from SS I to SS IV, submarines would get slightly harder to detect over time.

So which is it?

 

[Sourlol]

@Axe99 (they're excellent, but I wouldn't recommend them as a 'first naval book').



Soo, uhh you seem like a nerd...where do I go after The Influence of Seapower on History?

 

[Gen. Skobelev]

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@Axe99where do I go after The Influence of Seapower on History?

"Rise and fall of British naval mastery" by Paul Kennedy goes nicely after Mahan.

 

[Axe99]

Still worth it!

Too right .

@Axe99 (they're excellent, but I wouldn't recommend them as a 'first naval book').

Soo, uhh you seem like a nerd...where do I go after The Influence of Seapower on History?

Depends what you want to look into - I'm afraid my reading isn't very 'structured', so it lurches from very accessible books (like an Images of War title on U-108) to more technical stuff. Most naval books are fairly accessible, and even in the Warships there are accessible articles. But, for example, to give an example of the less accessible stuff, in Warship 2013's article by Hans Lengerer on the Fourth Fleet Incident, it gets into the wave height to length ratio in the context of measuring longitudinal stress on a hull, which at least for me is at the outer edge of what I'm comfortable with .

That suggestion for Paul Kennedy probably isn't a bad place to start - I haven't read that book, but Rise and Fall of the Great Powers (or similar, can't remember the exact title) was a goody. I've heard very good things about Shattered Sword as well. There are oodles and oodles of good books, so it depends a lot on what you're keen on .

 

[Gort11]

I'll second the recommendation for Shattered Sword. Fantastic book.

 

[Covfam]

Being able to black list a supply route is a good idea but only if it had a delay so that the new supply route had to ramp up much like factory efficiency does. that way a player cant just every wheen completly change things it took many months to alter supply routes not only the sips in the pipelines but also you had to have the equipment and manpower at the ports to recieve said supplies.

 

[Axe99]

Being able to black list a supply route is a good idea but only if it had a delay so that the new supply route had to ramp up much like factory efficiency does. that way a player cant just every wheen completly change things it took many months to alter supply routes not only the sips in the pipelines but also you had to have the equipment and manpower at the ports to recieve said supplies.

It depends what you mean - on the high seas, convoys were re-routed to avoid submarines that had been located through HF/DF or code-breaking. If there's already a process in place for loading/unloading and turning around convoys in the sending and receiving ports, then I doubt (as best I know) it'd be too painful (for example, Halifax and Liverpool handled oodles of convoys, so re-routing a few of them wouldn't have caused a lot of disruption at either end).

 

[Hydra01]

Absolutely love it!!! This update has what I really want in the game more ways to view information more easily really helps when you know whats going on as a whole.

 

[Darth.]

Man with all the features being added to this DLC it might just become HOI4's first 'needed' DLC to play the game and have an enjoyable experience. Like Common Sense, Art of War and Cossacks are for EU4.

 

[Pyro157]

@Axe99, I've heard that the battleship Fuso had a pretty poor reputation within the IJN, to the point where the very idea of serving on Fuso upset many a sailor or officer. I know that as a fairly obsolete WW1-era ship it definitely wasn't going to hold its own against more modern craft, and the living space was horribly cramped, but why else was it considered so bad?

Also, there were rumors that the Yamato has its own model, and it can apparently be seen in one of the streams. I haven't been able to see it, but if it ever pulls up for shore bombardment, it's time for my divisions to stop attacking (and the less decapitated rivet rain, the better).

 

[Meglok]

Soo, uhh you seem like a nerd...where do I go after The Influence of Seapower on History?

Try Robert K Massie's Dreadnought and Castles of Steel. And as a side note, his Peter the Great is also very good. Have them all in my library.
Samuel Morrison's Two Ocean War is a good condensed version of his 15 volume history of the US Navy in WW2. (If you can find his 15 volume set and the library will let you check it out, grab the opportunity. If it is in the reference section, schedule 1 afternoon a week in your library)
If you like biography's, Morrison's John Paul Jones: A sailor's biography is a classic.
Rick Atkinson's Liberation Trilogy is highly recommended, on the US Army in Europe.
If you like post war submarine history, Sherry Sontag's Blind Man's Bluff is fascinating.

"Rise and fall of British naval mastery" by Paul Kennedy goes nicely after Mahan.

Good one, it is on my to do reading list

Rise and Fall of the Great Powers (or similar, can't remember the exact title) was a goody

Correct, excellent book.

I'll second the recommendation for Shattered Sword.

Ditto.

Just finished Henry Kissinger's On China. Interesting read, a lot of insight into the Chinese Communist political scene. Now that y'all reminded me Kennedy's R&F of BNM is next.

 

[Robosoldier1]

So we gonna see the incorporation of new types of vessels at some point when the rest of the naval system is reworked? Maybe have the introduction of sea mines? Perhaps variants of certain types of ships like a designated AA destroyer or a submarine hunter?

 

[Redswingarcus]

it Looks like real war. Now i must adopt a new navy invasion /convoy tactics. I finaly found oud of the dummy convoy/invasion and now i am not allowed . War is not far.

Offtopic. i do not understand, looks like Allies are OP? UK is caputalted, France, Sweden,NorwayAustrilia, India and Singapore area, Dutch Indies are mine. The allies still strong fighting the in Itallie in i can not kill them together with IT. Why? How can they out produce stuff from only out of afrika?? almost no industrie and no manpowwer. Match for sure more then half our divisions. Rusland is waiting for my mistake. I luckey i did not accept Italie to defend Lativia. Made a coup in USA so i hoop they will not go for me, They hate me because i Germany must rule, Yeah i have to Iceland Greenland bussy invading Canada.
Canada kill all my units there, how and why? What super powers have they?. Art division are not killing Canadians, almost al research Art power and max out land doctorines. There inf are waster walking then my mech inf with there light tanks?? I can not out run them in Canadain? Because a region is to big to autmanouvre them, division never can travel fast enough for surrounding tactics an kill pocket by pocket?

 

[Axe99]

@Axe99, I've heard that the battleship Fuso had a pretty poor reputation within the IJN, to the point where the very idea of serving on Fuso upset many a sailor or officer. I know that as a fairly obsolete WW1-era ship it definitely wasn't going to hold its own against more modern craft, and the living space was horribly cramped, but why else was it considered so bad?

I'm afraid I haven't read anything detailed on any of the Japanese battleships. Just had a look at Whitley's Battleships of World War Two, and it notes they were the first major modern warship to be constructed in Japan using indigenous material and weapons (while three of the four Kongos were built in Japan, they still had quite a few British components), so it may have been the case that there may have been a bit of 'growing pains' while they were building Fuso/Yamashiro, but that's purely speculation on my part (first big project of anything by a country will often have one or two rough edges). Either way, they were pretty old by WW2, and as you say, despite their modernisations were considered obsolete.

On living space in Japanese warships, they tended to be very cramped in general, and it may have been that the Fusos were even more so (which would have been pretty uncomfortable!) Sorry I can't help any more than that - if the likes of @Admiral Piett or @Director are about they may well be able to provide a better answer .

 

[lrbaumard]

But Sinkiang doesn't have a navy...

That adds to the hilariousness of the statement