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HoI4 Dev Diary - ¡No Pasaran! - Republican Spain Focus Tree

Hola everyone, and welcome to yet another dev diary on the upcoming DLC for HoI4, where we’ll be talking about the second entirely new focus tree: Republican Spain.

Last week we talked a little bit about the design intent for Spain as a whole - so today we will move straight on to the interesting stuff ;)

Obligatory Disclaimer:

This is still a work-in-progress, and much of the art, systems and balancing is/are not yet finished! You guys know the drill :)

Republican Spain Starting Situation

rep_spain.jpg

The starting position for Republican Spain is, naturally, the same as that for the Nationalists. They begin with the same 4 spirits, signifying the influence of Carlism, the Military’s disloyalty, and the political violence and strikes that are escalating in the initial half of 1936 (see our previous dev diary for more information on these).

Dev Diary initial spirits.png


The same initial choice is present at the start of the game, but instead of selecting A Great Spain, we will now go with The Popular Front.

Dev Diary initial choice.png


The Popular Front was a loose alliance of political parties that were only really united in their opposition of Fascism. The idea of a Popular Front was formulated by Stalin in the mid-1930s, suggesting that the rapid growth of Fascism required a more unified response than Communism alone could provide. Effectively, it gave permission to subordinate Communist parties to band together with less extreme socialist parties, and even outright bourgeois parties, solely to combat Fascism in national politics. In Spain, the Popular Front that opposed the Fascist/Traditionalist CEDA (Spanish Confederation of Autonomous Rights - sometimes called the “Nationalist Front”) consisted of a variety of liberal, socialist, and communist parties, the most important of which (for the purposes of this diary) are the Communist Party of Spain (PCE), Workers’ Party of Marxist Unification (POUM), and the Republican Left (IR). This coalition was also supported by regional nationalists and the Anarchist Trade Unions CNT/FAI. This coalition paid off, and despite massive resources and an overwhelming election campaign by the CEDA, the Popular Front won the 1936 Spanish elections.

This victory was to be short-lived, however. Unbeknownst to the Republicans, in the aftermath of the failed elections the CEDA would hand over their sizeable campaign chest to the plotting military leaders to finance a rebellion, and political violence from both sides would escalate in the coming months. As with the Nationalist side, this is represented by various decisions and missions. The sole distinction is the change in perspective. As all state garrisons are initially fully controlled by the Republican side anyway (they all begin with a Nationalist control of None), the garrison control decisions are unavailable until the Nationalist side has begun contesting Republican control in any location. From that point on, it becomes possible to attempt to flip them back.

Dev Diary pre civil war decisions.png


A second point that sets the Republicans apart from their Nationalist adversaries are the nature of their focuses. The full pre-Civil War path for the Nationalists has a total duration of 210 days to complete, which means that, as long as a player continuously takes focuses, they are guaranteed to finish the whole path before the civil can start, even at the soonest start date. Not so for the Republicans. Republican pre-Civil War focuses (after the initial choice) last twice as long as their adversaries’, resulting in a total duration of 385 days to fully complete this path (therefore requiring the civil war to be delayed until after January 20, 1937). This should immediately make it obvious why it is advantageous for the Nationalists to begin the civil war as soon as possible - this will ensure the Republicans will only have time to complete their first two focuses. And as the impact of the Republican focuses progressively increases, this vastly weakens the initial position for the Republicans, relative to the Nationalists.

Dev Diary initial path.png


  • Securing the Guardia de Asalto or Guardia Civil gives either a few trained units, or double the number of untrained units (respectively) at the start of the civil war. Whichever the player chooses, the Nationalists get the opposite reward.
  • Train the Union Youth gives 5 trained units at the start of the civil war, as well as other bonuses.
  • Enlarging the Weapon Caches refers to the weapon caches that were secreted away ever since the Asturias Miners’ Revolt, and lie ready for use to this day. It is the first focus that will not be available to the Republicans if the Nationalists manage to achieve their goal of starting the civil war near its historical start date. While normally the equipment is split 50-50 between the two sides at the start of the civil war, this focus sways this to (currently) 80-20 in favor of the Republicans.
  • Distribute Arms to the People refers to various calls from prominent politicians and groups for the government to start issuing weapons to regular citizens, as it began to become obvious that the Military could not be trusted. This focus gives 10 untrained divisions at the start of the civil war, as well as other bonuses.
  • Disband the Army is the finishing focus in the Republicans’ preparations for the civil war. It is the ‘nuclear option’, where the government outright disbands the entire army and attempts to purge it of disloyal elements. However, though it will hand the initiative to the government, the various plotting leaders will not go easily and, likely will elect to rise up rather than be imprisoned. Accordingly, this focus will immediately start the civil war when completed. While the civil war normally has a flat 50-50 distribution of the nation’s pre-Civil War armed forces between the two sides, this focus increases this to (currently) an 80-20 split in favor of the Republicans. It also provides a large chunk of Political Power. However, with the loyalty of the military so severely tainted, the government will immediately disband their portion of this pre-Civil War military. This is something that occurs regardless of whether you take the focus or not (if the focus is not taken, this step is taken in the Civil War start event - regardless of when it starts), and so the focus mainly serves to greatly weaken the Nationalist side’s starting position.
Dev Diary disband the army.png


As the Civil War starts, the Republican side begins with all states that do not have Total Nationalist garrison control. However, states where the Nationalists have more control than the Republicans will spawn more Nationalist troops, making it likely that these will be lost soon afterwards. In addition, the Carlism Spirit is no longer relevant for the Republicans from this point on, and is removed, while a new Spirit Disbanded Army is added (again, regardless of whether Disband the Army as a focus is taken or not), representing the (quite frankly) disastrous impact the disbanding of the army historically had on the first months of the Republican war effort. Various focuses in the different branches diminish and remove this Spirit. Beyond this, the same Offensives decisions are available to the Republicans, as are available to the Nationalists (see more information about this again in our previous dev diary).

The Republican faction begins the civil war as Democratic, but as a whole it is even more internally divided than the Nationalists. Not three, but four different Republican factions vie for control of post-Civil War Spain, and this fight for supremacy will likely result into internal fracturing and outright violence even during the Civil War.


Republican (Democratic) Branch

The Second Republic at the start of the Civil War struggled to defend itself against the rebellion, while also maintaining cohesion and singularity of purpose within the faction itself. On the one hand, the communist and anarchist militias that supported the Popular Front played a key role in preventing the outright success of the initial coup attempt in the first place, and they were invaluable to the Republican war effort in the opening months of the Civil War, when the government was in the process of recreating a new army after disbanding the old. On the other hand, these groups also had wildly differing viewpoints on how the post-Civil War society should be structured, and idealism and fanaticism on all sides could easily bloom into violence. Historically, major influence came from the Soviet Union, which provided the Republic with much-needed weapons and equipment, but also meddled extensively in internal affairs, attempting to root out any Communists who might be critical of Stalin’s leadership. Ultimately, this would serve to completely undermine the war effort, resulting in the virtual elimination of two of the Front’s four (broadly-speaking) distinct groups as active participants in the Civil War, not by Nationalist doing, but by their own hands.

Dev Diary democratic civil war branch.png


One of the major issues facing the Democratic government of the Second Republic involves the recreation of a proper army, reducing reliance on idealistic and undisciplined militias that is represented in the Disbanded Army Spirit. Others deal with stemming the flow of the Nationalist advance, fortifying the various cities and towns in their path, and especially fortifying the Republican foothold in the Basque Country (if this is controlled at the Civil War’s start). But above all, the single biggest threat facing the government in the short term is the inevitable uprising of the Anarchist and Independent Communist militias (always represented as Anarchists if this uprising occurs from the Democratic/Stalinist perspective), as Stalinist meddling and manipulations will eventually break down all remnants of trust within these groups and the government. This uprising may be delayed through the Anti-Fascist Unity focus and the decisions it unlocks, but these can only delay it somewhat, and never prevent it. They are only intended as a desperate measure if you really cannot afford the uprising right then. Just as with the Falangist and Carlists paths we discussed last week, a focus Crush the Revolution exists that will immediately trigger the civil-war-within-the-civil-war and provide a temporary combat bonus against them.

Dev Diary three-way civil war.png


Together with Relocate the Gold Reserves, crushing the Anarchists and Independent Communists is a requirement for opening up the possibility of much larger Soviet aid than initially offered. This aid consists of various combat modifiers, tech bonuses, increased Volunteer caps for the Soviet Union, construction bonuses, and even tech sharing. It also opens up for a powerful Soviet Aid post-Civil War recovery branch. While powerful, as all this aid comes at a price, however… Stalinist control over the government will increase, and while moving the Gold Reserves abroad may keep them out of the hands of the Nationalists, it will not keep them safe from foreign seizure… Going down this path will result in the Second Republic being puppeted by the Soviet Union upon the conclusion of the civil war, and they will be unlikely to release their control over the country willingly…

Dev Diary soviet aid branch.png



Regardless of whether the player decides to pursue this aid, they will need to manage the influence of the Stalinists on their own government. It is possible to maintain true to the Democratic principles on which the Second Republic was based, but this will come at the cost of combat penalties that may well prove to be problematic during the Civil War - the Communists were an integral part of the anti-Fascist fight, after all. However, staying true to your Democratic foundations will allow you to eventually subvert Soviet control even if you pursued Soviet aid previously and were puppeted as a result. This finally opens up into a branch where, now that the Fascists have been defeated, Spain may fight a final War of Independence against the Communists and the Soviet Union, to finally earn their deserved freedom. In this, they may either seek membership of the Allies, or strike a pragmatic Deal with the Devil and request military aid from those who have experience in fighting the Soviets - the very same people who opposed them during the Civil War: Germany and Italy.

Dev Diary war of independence.png


It is also possible to give in to the Stalinist pressure, and focus on defeating Fascism, even at the cost of Democratic principles. If this option is selected, the government will switch to Communist, and a future War of Independence becomes unavailable. Instead, it will become possible to Appeal for Increased Autonomy (on the Stalinist side), becoming a full-fledged member of the Comintern rather than a puppet. Finally, remaining focuses for the Democratic branch focus on rebuilding their army and navy, and preparing for a global Anti-Fascist Crusade.

Dev Diary democratic finisher branch.png



Stalinist (Communist) Branch

The Stalinist Communists were the Communist Party of Spain (PCE), and are referred to as such because of their loyalty to the Stalinist Communist doctrine. Their branch shares a start with that of the other Communist faction that we will deal with later, but splits up already within a handful of focuses. Historically, they shared the outlook of the Government, in that both it and the Stalinists were more concerned with defeating the Fascists and maintaining the cohesion of their coalition rather than pushing for a social revolution as the other groups did. In the Focus Tree this is represented by many points of contact between the two branches.

Dev Diary stalinist civil war branch.png


Main points of interest during the civil war for the Stalinists branch relate to Stalin’s Popular Front strategy. Rather than alienate other classes, these must be incorporated into the fight against Fascism first, and re-educated later, when the frontlines have stabilized. A notable exception to this is the clergy, as anti-clericalism is a core component of the Republic’s values. Church riches must instead be confiscated and used to finance the fight against the Nationalists, even if this will send the clergy into the arms of the Nationalists. Next, concessions must be obtained from the Republican government, at first with ministerial positions, but soon enough full control of the war effort must be demanded. And finally, just as with the Democratic branch, the recalcitrant independently-minded Anarchists and Communists must be eliminated for the good of the Republican cause as a whole.

Dev Diary red bulwark in the west.png



For the Stalinists, Soviet Aid is much more of a no-brainer. Yes, you will get puppeted, but many of your strongest focuses tie in with this branch anyway, and there is always the Appeal for Increase Autonomy. Post-Civil War, the branch focuses heavily on fortifying the country, strengthening it as a bulwark from which to wage a two-front war with the Fascist nations lodged between Spain and the Soviet Union, should it come to that. Finally, focuses allow for the conquest of Portugal, the supporting of French Communists, and exacting vengeance on all nations who dared send Volunteers to the Nationalists during the Civil War.

Dev Diary stalinist finisher branch.png



Independent Communist (Communist) Branch

The Independent Communists represent the POUM, a second Communist party in Spain that broke with both the Trotskyist and Stalinist Communist doctrines, opposing the latter heavily, and was a member of the “International Revolutionary Marxist Centre”, also called the “London Bureau” (nicknamed the 3½ International); a grouping of similar independently-minded Communist parties from various countries. Notably, in the Civil War George Orwell would fight with POUM militias, and the way the Stalinists undermined, manipulated, and repressed the party would greatly impact his thinking and later writings. Historically, this repression culminated in the May Days, a period of 5 days in May 1937 where actual street fighting occurred between the Stalinist Communists and the Government on the one hand, and the POUM and Anarchists on the other. After this, the Anarchists would be increasingly divided internally and its influence on the Civil War would wane, and the POUM would soon be outlawed altogether.

Dev Diary poum civil war branch.png


As the POUM, the major antagonist, other than the Nationalists, are the Stalinists. Early on steps must be taken to curtail Stalinist influence and interference, maintaining the party’s independence and putting a stop to the indiscriminate political assassinations perpetrated by the NKVD. International Brigades provides a steadily ticking manpower pool for the duration of the Civil War, aiding their cause somewhat. Unlike the Stalinists, the purpose of the POUM is social revolution, and so the Class War must be pursued. The fact that the Government opposes this and increasingly attempts to crack down on them means that eventually the step must be taken to Seize the Gold Reserves and use these to finance a full-blown uprising along with the Anarchists, to enable the Revolution to flourish.

Dev Diry seize the gold reserves.png


Post-Civil War parts of the tree focus on industrial and military improvements, as well as the formation of a People’s Fleet. Some industrial focuses are shared with the Anarchists, and some with the Stalinists. Unify the London Bureau will create a unique faction and invite all Communist nations that are not in a faction (or are Soviet Union or a Communist Mexico led by Trotsky). Further focuses generate wargoals against Fascist nations in Europe, nations led by Stalin or Trotsky, and finally the focuses to conquer Portugal and Avenge Foreign Interference are shared with the Stalinists.

Dev Diary poum finisher focuses.png



Anarchist (Unaligned) Branch

The Anarchists are the final available branch for the Republican side. This branch represents the various autonomous communes that rose up in the area of Aragon and Catalonia during the civil war, and in which the fight against Fascism was most clearly accompanied by the Spanish Revolution. These communes organized themselves under a single Regional Defense Council of Aragon, and in the territory controlled by them collectivization of the workplace became a common theme. However, the independence with which they conducted themselves was a perpetual thorn in the eyes of the government and the Stalinists, and, as with the POUM, the May Days saw their influence severely curtailed. As Anarchist society is inherently incompatible with the way Nation-States are represented in HoI4, we’ve had to get creative with their representation. A key part of this ties in with the concept of the “Regional Defense Council”, as historically used by the Anarchists during the civil war.

Dev Diary anarchist civil war branch.png


The initial action points for the Anarchists involve the collectivization of all aspects of society - seizing the means of production, giving workers autonomy and self-management, seizing public transport, and increasing communal farming. Rather than recreate an army, like the other branches focus on, the Anarchist focus on arming the people themselves, preferring to rely on self-organized militias. Just like the Communists, they also gain access to the International Brigades Spirit. Eventually, though, the government will crack down on the Revolution, but, as with the Independent Communists, the player will be able to take a focus to launch the uprising from their side instead, gaining a temporary combat bonus.

Dev Diary all must bear the torch.png


Once complete gender equality has been achieved through Mujeres Libres and the uprising has been started, either through government crack-down or through taking the focus Masters of Our Own Fate, the pivotal focus All Must Bear the Torch becomes available. This has a number of effects that impact the playstyle of the Anarchists:
  • The economic law is changed to a unique law Collectivized Society, which is slightly superior to War Economy, but also has (at first glance) significant bonuses to factory and dockyard output. It will not be possible to change away from this.
  • Trade law is changed to Closed Economy, and it will not be possible to change away from this.
  • The Anarchist Society Spirit that is first applied in the Regional Defense Council of Aragon focus, and which is continuously improved upon throughout the branch, gains a whopping (currently) 5% recruitable population. However, it also now gives a base -15% stability and -1% weekly stability.
  • Autonomous State modifiers are removed from all states that have this.
The end result of this is that an Anarchist Spain will be perpetually stuck at 0% stability. However, any negative effects they might experience from this are disabled or compensated for, with the sole exception of Political Power gain. The massive production speed bonuses inherent in the Collectivized Society economic law are purely intended to compensate for the -50% production bonus that is applied due to having 0% stability. Bad effects relating to low stability, such as Strikes, will not occur when playing as the Anarchists.

This all comes at a cost, however: every single other nation on the face of the planet will hate you. Initially, during the civil war itself, this is only noticed by the fact that no nation will want to aid you, and will instead support hostile Spanish factions against you. However, once the civil war ends, this will result in major powers taking steps to actively quell the Anarchist Revolution - with nations receiving AI modifiers to act in a hostile manner towards the Regional Defense Council. As the Anarchists, you stand alone against the world.

Dev Diary anarchist middle branch.png



The next part of the tree focuses on defending against this coming threat. Focuses will revolutionize military thinking, give combat bonuses to defense on core territory, and greatly increase War Support. A side branch will allow the Anarchist revolution to ‘spill over’ the Portuguese border, when the Anarchists share a border with them. The Portuguese Anarchism focus creates a civil war in Portugal, puppeting the Anarchist tag it creates, and annexing them once the Portuguese civil war has ended. Once this is complete, and the Spanish Civil War itself is also won, a new Regional Defense Council may be called into being: the Regional Defense Council of Iberia. This will core all Portuguese states, as well.

Dev Diary regional defense council of iberia.png



Finally, the finisher focuses focus greatly on preparing the Communes militarily for the Inevitable Counterblow. The success of the Revolution is a threat to the very way of life of the rest of the world, and they cannot let this stand. When they are done fighting among one another, they will come after you (and possibly even before…). But the Defense Council does not need to sit on its hands and wait for this to happen. Anarchism Knows No Borders provides a spirit that increases War Support even further, but also drastically increases justification time for War Goals. Plant the Seeds of Revolution allows for creating uprisings of Anarchists troops behind enemy lines, under your control. And finally, Global Defense Council will rename the country once again, illustrating its nature as an entity that has spread far beyond the confines of the Iberian peninsula. In addition, it allows for dynamically coring controlled hostile land in which Compliance has been raised to a sufficiently high level, as they simply reorganize into their own autonomous communes and join under the umbrella of the Defense Council.

Dev Diary anarchist finisher branch.png


Playing as the Anarchists will pose significant challenges, as you are effectively expected to take on the entire world alone, with a (at least initially) limited economic powerbase. However, it also provides significant rewards for a player that manages to succeed and push their enemies back, dynamically growing their powerbase much more efficiently than other countries can.

Dev Diary Global Defense Council.png

Unfortunately, all Anarchist military commanders were on short-notice leave from the frontlines, and so were unavailable for screenshots… :rolleyes:

Finally, we have a picture of both focus trees as they are presented to the player when they first load up the game as Spain, before they have taken any choices of who to support:

all_spain.jpg

On today’s HoI4 stream I will be joining @Da9L to take a look at the new Spanish trees, and in particular the new Republican tree. This will be followed by a Q&A session, where we’ll take your questions about them :) The stream will be from 15:00-16:00 CET, and can be viewed here.

We hope you’ll join us next week for another HoI4 dev diary!

Rejected Titles

Anarchy is the least stable form of society - it will collapse and form a government at the slightest touch

Splitting the party to save the party

The Anarchist police state rides again

How I stopped worrying about stability and started loving the collective

Spain was the most Popular Front ever

Sanity is a bourgeois concept

Please Comrade Stalin may I have some more foreign aid?

Casablanca Blues

In Australia, we drop the ‘FAI’

Homage to Cataluña

The Communist Party of Spain? We're the Workers’ Party of Marxist Unification! Splitters!

"Gentleman, we do not stop until Madrid." "But what about the Republic?" "You've already had it." "We've had one, yes, but what about a Second Republic?"

Basque-ing in Spain’s greatness!

My allegiance is to the Republic; to Democracy!

“We don't have a Caudillo! I told you, we're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week [...].”

PCE be upon you, Spain. - love, Stalin <3

Red makes it go faster!
 
You know, it's possible for Spain to join the European Union faction in the Netherlands' 'Unite The Minor Democracies' focus path (granted that was because the event for some reason fired super late and I had to watch helplessly because my War Support was too low to actually do anything as the Nationalist tomped them). Is it theoretically going to be possible for a Republican player to delay the Civil War long enough for a Netherlands player to invite them in?
 
Plus the way ideology is in game, Fascism pratically includes every country that was a dictatorship of sorts and had more motives to be pro-axis than pro-allies. Franco was always more pro-axis.
I'm not arguing Franco shouldn't be Fascist, he clearly should, but Salazar qualifies too.

Portugal had a extremely nationalist, socially conservative authoritarian dictatorship with all the typical Fascist traits such as military youths, cult of personality, censorship, political prisoner labour camps and a secret military police. Why shouldn't they be considered Fascist? Because they had some ancient cerimonial diplomatic ties with the U.K?

Salazar was neither, and he was fairly sure we would face either side. But the old aliance with britain spoke higher and since Germany was losing badly already Portugal easily agreed to help the allies with military bases/acess.
Yes, Portugal could potentially join either side, which is why i would like them to get a focus tree, since both routes would be plausible.
And the "alliance" with Britain didn't speak higher untill Germany was loosing badly and the USA was threatening an invasion of Azores. At that point in the war joining the Axis would be absolute folly, so Portugal moved closer to the winning side.

You are wrong. There were people that joined the germans, but Portugal itself (the state) never supported operation Barbarossa.
They didn't support in an official state sponsored military intervention, since that would break Portuguese neutrality, the support was political, the media praised it, the government praised it, the volunteers were seen as heroic crusaders and there were masses praying for the "liberation of Russia"

Unsure where you are getting your info from but I am pretty sure Portugal was always neutral and that giving docking rights for German ships would violate any neutrality.
I'm getting it from "Diário da História de Portugal" By José Armando Saraiva and Maria Luísa Guerra, also anecdotal reports from my grandparents who lived through those times.
As stated before, the support was not official and was covered by the government, to prevent breaking the neutrality.

We did not give them to the British (our old allies), why would we give them to the… Germans? In fact USA was almost invading (War Plan Gray) Portugal (because they wanted the Azores), but the British knew of the plan and convinced Salazar to "help the allies". We only gave acess to the Azores very late during the war, and only to the Allies.
I would also like to point out that Portugal outright refused the Australian request to garisson East-Timor to contain Japanese expansion in the Pacific, and Australia did it anyway, causing Portugal to send a message to Japan explaining the East-Timor was unlawfully occupied by the allies, and Portugal had no interest in supporting the enemies of the Empire of Japan, to which Japan replied that they would be forced to invade Timor, but meant no hostilities towards Portugal.

Rolao Preto - the head of the MNS, was seen imitating Hitler more than once though, and his political party took their ideals from the Juntas de Ofensiva Nacional-Sindicalista, which ended being fused with the Spanish Falange. The Spanish Falange itself started being called Falange Española de las Juntas de Ofensiva Nacional Sindicalista.

And as I said, if the Nationalists were pratically Fascists, and if the MNS copied the Spanish Nationalists, then the answer is pretty much obvious. The MNS might have a few things that make them diferent from the Spanish Nationalists, but they are closer to being a fascist party, than comunist, republican or monarchist one.
Charlie Chaplin imitated Hitler as well, does that make him a Fascist?
And if the MNS copied the Nationalists, the Nationalists copied the Estado Novo. So if the Nationalists are Fascist, so should the Estado Novo.
Rolão Preto was critical of the Estado Novo, incluiding denoucing Fascist elements within the União Nacional.

On a side note, check the wikipedia page for Francisco Rolao Preto or the MNS, and reach your own conclusion, specially after reading the first paragraph:
The first paragraph on Rolão Preto goes:
He was the founder of the Lusitanian Integralism (Absolutist Monarchy) and leader of the National-Sindicalists
Later on he became the linked to the *democratic* opposition to Estado Novo.
The Wikipedia entry for the MNS explicitly pits them as anti-fascist.


Because the UK wanted to have Portugal as an ally or keep us outside of german influence - if the germans used Azores as a military base, they could mess up supply lines even more than they did, and could even strike at the USA mainland with their "high tech bombers". The UK had a small budget allocated to Portugal, and we could pratically buy whatever we wanted (with that budget) as long as they could supply it and as long as it didn't surpass the said budget. Plus, Portugal wasn't _that_ stable and peace was actually being threatened by the Axis Powers (British enemies) and even USA itself later on (unrelated but the fact remains). Germany on the other hand only sold things before 1940. And I think the bulk of whatever came from Germany actually came before 1939 (before the war started).
Actually you are right, after some research Portugal did recieve substantial allied equipment *in exchange* for the Azores air base, because Portugal was afraid that allowing the Allies to use the Azores base could break the neurality and trigger a German invasion, so they were preparing themselves for a potential invasion.
It should be noted that joining the Axis at this point (1943) was off the table.

I am sorry but you don't have an idea of what you are saying. First of, we are speaking about world war 2. The colonial war, hapened only in 1961. So yes, eventual leftovers were sold to Portugal. AFTER THE SECOND WORLD WAR. For instance, G3 was adquired after 1960. I hope you realize that the game scope is from 1936 and ends in 1950.

During the second world war, we did buy a few 10.000's from germany, specially after they annexed Austria and sold us weapons from Steyr (they also sold us decent quantities of Mausers as well).

But the bulk of the Portuguese armament from 1936 to 1950 came from the UK or USA. From tanks, to airplanes, to artilery, to destroyers. Small weapons (and even some other pieces like mortars/artilery) were made at the FBP and other places like FNMAL here in Portugal.

Either way I will give you a small list of equipment, of what was used mostly/adquired during this time:

Tanks: Centaur and Vicker tanks (like Carden-Loyd tankettes). All from England. We also adquired armored cars from the UK, notably the Bren Carrier.
Artilery: QF pounder from the UK, 155mm howitzer from USA (iirc), Obice da 75/18 modello 34 from italy.
AA guns: From Vickers-Armstrong and QF 3.7-inch AA. Also Bofors and some Flakvierling 38.
Small weapons: Mauser-Vergueiro most of the time, adapted into Mauser 98k later on. Also received certain weapons from Germany but in limited quantities. FBP m/948 was also produced during this time since it was cheap and effective.
Ships: At least 10 destroyers / minesweepers / ASW ships given by the UK in order to keep the Azores clean of possible threats after Portugal allowed military acess into those islands.
Airplanes: Just the UK alone gave us more than 100 spitfires. The germans + italians didn't even sell us 20 airplanes (and a good deal were just for transport, lol). There were also decent quantities sold by the UK/USA ranging from Gladiators, P-39 Airacobras, Bristol Blenheims and Hawker Hurricanes. Amongst many others.

Frankly the list is just too big. The germans did sell us a decent quantity of small guns (a little more than 50.000), and there were some tiny bits here and there that the italians sold as well (like the artilery piece I listed, amongst some other heavy weapons but they were so small in number I didn't even bother taking in consideration). But over 80% of the equipment, during this time, came from USA-UK (and some from canada).
This is a moot point, trading weapons with Germany or the USA doesn't make you more or or less fascist.

Estado Novo was implemented by Salazar on 1932. Spanish civil war started on 1938. You said 15 years?
But the coup which established the Ditadura Nacional (National Dictatorship) was in 1926, the Estado Novo didn't overthrow the Ditadura Nacional as much as being the natural development of it

Portugal was recovering from economic crisis, and you speak about "stability"?
Portugal has been in "economic crisis" since 1755 tbh.

Not to mention republican/comunist plots, or even monarchists/rightists that weren't exactly pleased with the government. Those anti-government parties even tried to kill Salazar.
The opposition was a very vocal minority, most of the population was completely ignorant of politics (deliberately, since an ignorant nation is easier to dominate) to even have an opinion.

Specially with possible Spanish invasion backed by Axis powers, or even a possible invasion from the part of the USA+UK. That kind of stability right?
Thats during WW2, i meant before.
Still, doesn't compare with a civil war with 1M casualties.

Oh, did I forget the oposition that Salazar faced from the army as well? Why did you think Salazar even had to become the Minister of Defense as well?
I have no knowledge about this oposition.

Again, Fascism isn't defined by number of casualties, but it shows the brutality of Franco's regime. A good or benevolent dictator doesn't murder his own people in those numbers
Nobody here is debating the subjective benevolence of Fascist dictators. This point of yours makes me believe you might be sympathetic towards Salazar and thus want to distance him from "Fascist" label because of the bad reputation it got from Germany's Italy's and Spain's crimes.

And you have to remember that in-game Fascism isn't really Fascism in real-life, since the AI will only join in most cases aliances in which their ideology is represented. And since Franco was pro-axis obviously, and given his own doings on Spain, it is more than obvious that we should consider his government a Fascist government for gaming purposes.
This could easily be fixed by giving Portugal a neutrality national spirit just like Democratic Sweeden has to prevent them from siding with the Allies.

On a side note:

Portuguese Population by 1939: 18,595,400
Spanish Population by 1939: 26,822,800

You said Spain surpassed Portuguese population by 5x times?

Thats the Population of the Portuguese Empire and all its colonies.
I mean actual Portugal, which was around 7,000,000

Humberto Delgado, was, curiously, one of those extreme rightists I spoke of earlier (not from MNS, but those that liked Germany). He even wrote a book in which he showed his leanings towards the Nazis. He even wanted the Estado Novo to be more pro-german during and before the war started. Curiously he switched ideology after he visited the USA - the PIDE (secret police) then started watching him, since they knew he had sold himself to the americans. It is funny that he is now a hero, but that only because he was one of the many people that fought against the regime. Frankly I don't blame Salazar for what hapened with Humberto Delgado - that was the PIDE's doing, and given that he had interests that did not serve the country but other countries, I can't blame them either.
Frankly i don't care about your mental gimnastics to justify the murder of political opposition, a regime where the secret police assasinates opposition candidates is definitely not very democratic.

You will note that from all elections, only Humberto Delgado was killed. All the others that participated and did not win, were left alone.
Because they did not win. And its a miracle Delgado even got a chance at all considering how rigged the whole sistem was against non-UN candidates.
Also, even if they did win, the President was a puppet, the head of government, Salazar held complete power.

As for "actual democracy", I always find it funny because the "father of democracy" (Mario Soares) himself stated there was no democracy in Portugal. And in part, he was saying the truth - a few days ago you had a party in power that was not even elected by the people. So I really fail to see your point about the "actual democracy". There are many type of democracies in the world, mind you - many with only 1 party
Just because you fail to understand how the Portuguese parliament works, doesn't mean democracy doesn't exist.
Portugal didn't have a party in power which wasn't elected, Portugal had a government formed by a coalition of 3 parties which indeed have the absolutely majority of the votes. What you consider as the party who "was elected" did not have the absolute majority of votes, so they had no chance of forming government since the opposition had the majority of deputies.

Portugal during the time's scope, was one of those. Voting was not an universal right for everyone - there were less than/about 20.000 votes on the city of Porto alone during one of the elections for instance. And the city of Porto was/is the second biggest in Portugal. But was this a problem at the time? Certainly not, given that countless other countries followed a similar system.
We are drifting too far from the topic at this point.

Political persecution was vast and extreme in Spain. There was some in Portugal as well, but nothing as severe as in Spain
It was still severe enough to be considered authoritarian or Fascist.

as in Spain. Plus as I said, we had elections. It
"Elections"

If Spain was anti-communist and NATO was solely anti-communist, then why didn't they let the good ol' Spain into the block?
Because Portugal played the diplomatic game perfectly in its favour, getting on good terms on both sides. Spain didn't even try to befriend the Allies.

I believe diplomatic arguments are more than enough specially, once more, given how things work in the game. Germany wasn't Fascist, Japan wasn't Fascist, and many others weren't Fascist, yet, they are Fascist. Because, that enables the AI to join Axis or one of the Fascist aliances. Spanish AI, with the nationalists winning the civil war, could, theorically and historically speaking, join the Axis powers since Franco himself even sent the blue division. If they were non-aligned, they wouldn't join anyone, and would be following the historical route
Again, a simple neutrality-focus national spirit like Sweeden would achieve the historical neutrality route regardless of the Portuguese ideology.
Also, imo Portugal and Spain should form their own "Iberian Pact" faction, so them being in the same ideology makes sense in a diplomatic way as well.


TL;DR:
União Nacional might not be "100% Fascist", but out of all parties in Portugal it was the most Fascist of them, therefore in a gameplay perspective since every country has a Fascist party, União Nacional fits the best.
 
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Really nice to see Spain getting some love. Personally not into generic trees as they are well, generic and pretty boring tbh. Will be fun having the good old Spanish Empire 2.0 Electric Boogaloo.
 
Thank you. I am new to twitch (to watch this broadcast) and did not see where they had past streams.

It is there, but I don't particularly recommend watching the two that are up. There's nothing really there which isn't covered pretty thoroughly here in the dev diary. There's yet to be any footage of the new content itself shown off.

I think really the only 'new' piece of information is that they consider Republican and Nationalist Spain to be two fully featured countries, but they may have also said that here in the forum. Hinting that we will only one additional country that has yet to be revealed. I'm perfectly fine with that, given the quality of these trees. Quality over quantity.
 
I hate to be that guy but wasnt the poum a trotskyist organisation?
They were accused of that by the Stalinists who took over the Republican government, yes.
 
I hate to be that guy but wasnt the poum a trotskyist organisation?

Specifically it was a merger between Spain's affiliate of Bukharin's International Communist Opposition, the Worker and Peasants Bloc, and Spain's affiliate of Trotsky's international opposition, the Communist Left. So specifically, it wasn't really Trotskyist.

Even though the Communist Left organization in Spain was headed by Andres Nin, a former secretary of Trotsky's, Trotsky became enraged and claimed that they were counter-revolutionaries for having merged with supporters of Bukharin and disowned them. Subsequently, a new Trotskyist organization was formed in Spain which I think called themselves "Bolshevik-Leninists".

It's basically a tangled situation that goes into the arcane distinctions of communist and 'leninist' theory and politics, but the simplest way of putting it is that both Bukharin and Trotsky's supporters, internationally at least, disagreed with the direction Stalin was taking the Soviet Union. Trotsky decried its 'counter-revolutionary' turn in foreign policy and Stalin's crude nationalism(supporting the Nationalists in China, the popular front, etc), while Bukharin also opposed Stalin's attempt to crush all internal democracy and dissent in the party, although eh was complicit in earlier supporting Stalin against the Left Opposition. Bukharin's primary concern was a disastrous policy of collectivization and crash industrialization. Simply put, he did not think it advisable for the country to attempt a path of pure autarky, but rather believed that the cooperation of the advanced economies in Europe were required to for the Soviet Union to develop without abysmally low living standards and millions of deaths.

Trotsky's views of the economic development of the Soviet Union were quite fantastical in comparison. He believed crash industrialization could happen while simultaneously maintaining living standards and maintaining the food supply. We now know he was entirely wrong here. He perceived that Bukharin's skepticism towards ultra-industrialization was proof that Bukharin was a "thermidorean" who wanted to restore capitalism.

Aside from their views of Soviet economic policy, their view of what kind of policies and strategies Communist parties outside the Soviet Union should do to take power were remarkably similar. There is something of a tragic element here because from what you can see of the above, it wasn't really necessary for Trotsky to oppose Bukharin and that in most respects their views were extremely similar. I'm hoping that when we do get a Soviet rework that we'll have an option to forge a "United Opposition" that links the Right and Left oppositions together against Stalin with Kamenev and Zinoviev being the linking force between Bukharin and Trotsky(Kamenev and Zinoviev first cooperated with Bukharin and Stalin against Trotsky, and then later with Trotsky against Stalin and Bukharin).

Commonly, but incorrectly, Bukharin is seen as a kind of Soviet Deng Xiaoping who would have transformed the Soviet Union into what the PRC is today. In terms of his foreign policy and coordination of foreign communists, Bukharin was very much an orthodox revolutionary Marxist.

There is definitely a concern that when Paradox reworks the Soviet Union that there won't be adequate attention to tweaking related communist content, such as here with Spain. If Bukharin comes to power in the Soviet Union, then Republican Spain's POUM path should very much be the orthodox option that involves Soviet aid and entry to the Comintern. It is also arguably the case if Trotsky were to come to power as well. In exile, Trotsky could afford to be extremely sectarian because, not having any power, he did not have to make any compromises that would be realistic and necessary if he had any actual responsibility. Alternatively the POUM path could just be disabled and Nin made the PCE leader if Bukharin/Trotsky come to power in the Soviet Union. The focus tree here is a bit disingenuous. Nin and the POUM weren't anti-Trotskyist, rather it was Trotsky who was vehemently opposed to them. Trotsky's main bone of contention, aside from his animosity towards Bukharin, is that POUM participated in the popular front(which funnily enough IS NOT the case in the POUM focus branch here).

The PCE supported Stalin's policy which was called the Popular Front. The concept of the popular front was that it was supposed to be a broad alliance of liberals, socialists, and communists against the 'far right' or even fascism. Trotsky was opposed to the Popular Front because in his mind this necessitated giving up the political leadership of the working class, and that only an alliance with other working class parties was acceptable, which is called the United Front. The United Front was actually workable in Spain since the Republicans were overwhelmingly made up of the anarchists, communists, and the Socialist Party. The liberal component of the Republican government was maintained mostly for the sake of appearances and the chimerical goal of achieving British support.

Unfortunately, one can't help but get the impression that Republican Spain's communist content really wasn't designed with much thought to how it will fit into future Soviet content. Paradox will definitely have a lot of work to do with a Soviet rework. A lot of party leaders, and some events/focuses for communist branches only make sense if we assume that Stalin or Stalinists remain in power in the Soviet Union. Earl Browder, leader of the CPUSA for example, was an extreme Stalinist and he would definitely be sacked if Stalinists were outed.

Sorry for the long winded explanation, but unfortunately there's just no quick and easy way of putting it. Communist politics in this period was intimately tied to Soviet internal policy, political strategy of the foreign communist parties, and arcane theoretical disputes. I am not surprised to see that Paradox has made mistakes in this regard. Hopefully they bring in someone thoroughly familiar with Soviet history when they do finally tackle the Soviet Union. It is far too complicated to understand with quick reading and an expert opinion would probably help out a lot.

It came to my attention that early this year there was a translation of an article written by the founder of the Italian Communist Party, Amadeo Bordiga, who took to his pen in the 1950's to defend Bukharin from accusations that he represented a tendency of restoring capitalism.

A brief excerpt:
When later Stalin was asked which fraction was worse, Left or Right, he replied that they were both worse and he made it clear that his plan was to crush both of them. In the meantime, what was the “Stalin” fraction? It was the one that consisted in not having a tendency, in not respecting principles, in administering the state for the state, in governing Russia for Russia, in replacing the position of class and the international position with a national and then imperial position: even assuming that neither Stalin nor his followers were originally aware of it.

[...]

Trotsky himself, tied to the traditions of this struggle, devalued the “Right” even in his subsequent works, and he failed to understand the truth: that the Left and the Right were both on the ground of the Marxist principles, and that the “Center”, in each of its successive turning points in Russian as well as international politics, moved away a little more each time.

The full article and translation is located here. It makes many references to arcane and opaque theoretical matters which are not of direct relevance to the historical question at stake, but generally Bordiga's conclusions here are in line with that made by Bukharin's most well known biographer, Stephen Cohen.

But essentially, in many respects the above line of thinking was that of the POUM, so that is more or less the long answer to your question of whether the POUM was Trotskyist. Paradox is grossly mistaken as representing them as militantly opposed to Trotsky and Trotskyism.
 
Will there not be anarchist commanders (with his portrait) like Cipriano Mera or Durruti?
Durruti will probably be in; the devs have confirmed there will be unique commanders for ALL different ideologies that fought in the Spanish Civil War.
 
I'm not sure if this question has already been asked so forgive me if it has. But, is there a way for two players to start as Spain and then each one take the opposite side when the civil war is starting? Because while adding all these trees are really cool. It seems in mp the uniqueness will be underappreciated since people wont want to hot join people to fill the other side.
 
I'm not sure if this question has already been asked so forgive me if it has. But, is there a way for two players to start as Spain and then each one take the opposite side when the civil war is starting? Because while adding all these trees are really cool. It seems in mp the uniqueness will be underappreciated since people wont want to hot join people to fill the other side.
It's been asked and the answer is no
 
I assume it would be as simple as having someone hotjoin on the day war is declared. By the looks of it, it's entirely possible to have the civil war break out in pretty much the same way each time (primary player would have to go republicans I assume, because of how the bonuses can buff the nats) and then just have another player join the nats?
 
In big mp games of Kaiserreich, the common practice has been for an admin to play USA (a country that has a civil war in that mod) until the civil war starts, then the admin drops out and the players playing the civil war hotjoin in. That way the admin can ensure that there's no pre-civil-war manipulation (dispatching the army to colonies, manipulating where factories are built, deliberately doing stupid research, etc).

The other alternative is to have an AI play until the civil war starts and use a script in the pre-game options now that the scripted AI choices exist.