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HOI4 Dev Diary - Operatives and Missions

Hi everyone, today it's time to continue talking about espionage. We will be covering the stars and main resource - the Operatives.

Operatives are a new character type just like Admirals and Generals. But instead of leading armies of fleets they are used for 3 things. Defence of the homeland against foreign operatives, Missions and Operations (topic of its own diary).

Recruitment
Operatives are recruited from you Agency. The max amount you can have is dependent on the number of agency upgrades you have as well as if you are spy master or not. A spy master get access to a lot more operatives, depending on the size of their faction. A non spy master can still do things, but is a lot more limited due to this.

When recruiting you get to pick from 3 recruits (upgrades can increase this)
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Operatives start as recruits but can become full agents by gaining experience which will improve their abilities. There are various traits that can be gained when active as well as being possible from the start. Some are acquired from upgrades such as commando training in the agency. Sadly I didn't have art ready for traits, but here are a few examples we have:
Tough - will give up less intel if captured
Natural Orator - increased ability when it comes to diplomatic missions and creating collaboration regimes
Seducer - bonuses to missions and operations that require a soft touch (or whatever the enemy may be into)
Commando - bonuses to operations that require combat or stealthy infiltration
Double Agent -
a turned enemy agent will have bonuses to operate in their country of origin
Master Interrogator - Increases the capture chance of enemy operatives when working on counter intelligence.
As well as a bunch of other....

Operatives also have (at least one) nationality and will have a bonus to operating in their homeland. The Agency has some upgrades like Localized Training Centers that increases the chance of picking up agents that can pass as locals in foreign (including you enemies) nationalities. This is a mechanic that will be benefiting the Allies as operatives from German occupied areas can be recruited and sent back on missions where they will blend in easily.

Missions
Operatives can perform various missions on the map. The strength and impact of a mission generally depends on the size and strength of a network (more on those below).

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Counter intelligence - The default mission of an agent not doing anything else is to run Counter Intelligence in their home nation. This boosts the Counter Intelligence value for your nation and helps counter enemy spies.

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Build Network - The Operative will build a network of contacts in an area. Several operatives can help out either to expand the reach of the network or to build it faster. Networks have various passive effects:
  • Reduction of naval invasion penalty
  • Countering enemy dig in or planning bonus
  • Faster division planning when entering a network (based on the first enemy state on the path)
  • Improve intel advantage in combat locally (25%) (based on the intel ledger’s intel rework)
  • Gives static intel on the nation based on nation level strength. You will only get naval intel if the network encompasses ports, rest are even.
Networks target cities (VPs of particular size) and spread over an area. They can link up multiple operative's networks into larger ones. Here is an example of the British agents cooperating vs a single operative
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Here you can also notice "Sparrow" as the selected operative. Operatives have codenames of course (I had a lot of fun picking out swedish codenames)...

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Quiet Network - If you do not plan to make use a network right away you can place it in quiet mode. It will no longer give effects, but risk that any of your operatives are caught is now very tiny while still maintaining it. Perfect if you have prepared a large network for a future invasion, for example.

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Boost Ideology - This replaces the old diplo action as now your operatives will be able to affect the ideology of a target nation

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Propaganda - This mission is used to hurt a target nation stability and war support

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Root Out Resistance - Helps fight resistance

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Control Trade - Influence trade opinion by boosting yours and reducing enemies to give you a bigger piece of the the resources up for trade. If multiple nations are involved they cancel each other out, but it still limit 3rd parties.

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Diplomatic Pressure - Makes AI to want to accept only your faction, requires human players to have a higher tension/opinion level for joining other factions. If multiple nation’s Operatives are involved they cancel each other out, but it still limit 3rd parties. This can be pretty neat if you are competing with AI nations over where you want someone to join, as well as in multiplayer.

Defense
Operatives on counter-intelligence as mentioned above will help defend your nation together with the agencies base counter-intel value.
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This value affects how easily enemy agents can be discovered and stopped as well as how difficult it is to perform operations in your nation (see future diary). In this example there is a base value of 2 and the operatives add 3 together for a total of 5.

When an operative is discovered several things can happen:
Forced Underground or Injured - The operative had to abandon their work and lay low to avoid being captured. Any mission including networks will be on hold during this and networks will start to decay if no other agent is there
Captured - An operative captured by the enemy will be leaking intelligence to them and will eventually be killed (unless rescued). Operatives assigned suicide pills can also minimize the intel leaks here. Operatives who are caught also have a direct impact on their network as people working with them are assumed to have been captured along with them.

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Killed - In rare cases operatives may be killed in action leaving one of your slots empty where you will need to recruit a replacement.

The defensive game is mostly a passive affair for the defender as we were cautious of creating required micro, and by having a solid defense and capturing enemy operatives you might actually benefit a bit from the intel gathered on your enemies.

Thats it for this week. See you again next week!

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Hail Hydra
 
When you're using spy network build on occupied territory with effects concerning nation (like Control Trade or Boost Ideology), where would effect go - to owner or to controller?
 
Ok here's the obvious question: how will the AI handle this?
better than frontline sure (even now many times is acceptable).
The point is not how use the spys, it seems easy, the problem is how ai handle the militar intel, for example if it see enemy unit composition or plansm it will react?
So spies is good feature, but the revolution (or not) comes from intel (related to spy yes, but not indded the spies)
 
I'm getting a "meh" feeling from all the spy stuff. It might be amusing for a game or two, but it otherwise seems to fall into a lot of the traps that estates in EU4 had to deal with. It looks like it'll be a little minigame off in its own little world that gives a few modest bonuses when done correctly but is otherwise ignored. The only part that looks worth pursuing are the minor combat bonuses. Diplomatic pressure might be interesting if it's sufficiently powerful, but I doubt it'll be enough to overcome HoI4's embrace of hardcoded -1000 "lol no" diplomatic modifiers. Moreover, it looks like the main way players can interact with the system is by tweaking modifiers on a process that is primarily determined by random dice rolls. I can't point to a single espionage system from any strategy game in my 2 decades of playing them that I could say "ah yes, this is an excellent feature". Maybe someone in this thread can give an example of a game doing espionage well?

Why were spies considered the most pressing issue that needed to be added to HoI4 while things like diplomacy and peace conferences still continue to ruin entire campaigns with a startling degree of frequency? There's a reason the Player Led Peace Conferences mod has nearly 300K subscribers. Spies and espionage seem like a "window dressing" DLC that could be added after basic mechanics were ironed out.
 
Now, this reminds me: @podcat, another question and unsure if it was already answered or not: Is it possible for 2 different in-game factions (For example: Allies led by UK/US and Comintern) to share intel against a common enemy (Axis)?

IRL it was not just that, for example:

The Soviet Union heavily spied on their Western Allies during the whole war. For example, the Cambridge Five (Kim Philby & comerades) were active in the UK, and in the USA a large network of the Atomic Spies infiltrated the US nuclear program.

Hungary and Finland shared intel not just about the enemies, but also about their major ally Germany. That was easy, since the head of the Finnish signals intelligence, Colonel Aladár Paasonen, was half Hungarian.

The USA and Finland did not declare war on eachother, but held friendly diplomatic relations thru the war, while they fought against eachothers allies. I don't know if there was any secret intel shared during the war, but at least the countries shared their views of the conduct of the war with eachother.
 
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Instead of introducing more charachter mechanics into the game, I would have preferred if the devs focus would have been on improving the warfare part of the game.
For example: AI, front handling, Naval UI improvements etc

Charachter mechanics feel out of place in a game where you control hundreds of divisions.

Disagree about character mechanics, I think using individual characters as representations of larger intel operations is a great move. It's just a mnemonic, or an easy way to remember your actions in the game. Like, "Oh, codename Sparrow, yeah that's the operation arming the Polish Resistance in preparation for the invasion!" Plus it makes for great stories.

However, I do agree that there other features that are more important than this, like you mentioned, AI and front handling in particular. If the AI is unable to recognize a stalemate, or use armor in a somewhat meaningful way, or suicide charges their armies into defences, it doesn't really matter that you can play around with spies behind the enemy lines.

Also, lots of potential complexity with actions and counter-actions hinted at in the diaries, but no mention yet of how the AI will handle it. In other words, the mechanic may end up being a fun tool for the player to mess around with, without facing any real challenge from the AI.
 
For nationality/double-agent boost, how will it determine where that boost is effective. If you are playing as Britain and you have a French operative, where does that give a boost? Scenarios I'm thinking of are Metro France (Cores) vs French Indochina (Colonies), Vichy France vs Free France, occupied French lands vs unoccupied. Similarly if you're Germany with a British double agent, where on the map does it get a bonus, same rough scenarios as the French ones, but also does it get a boost in the subject territories as well?
Well, he said the network is based on 'Cities' (so either requires Urban terrain or a large VP), so I would assume that means it is centered on that location.
 
@podcat
Maybe there can be two separate types of boosting. There can be offensive boosting done by spies, and now the diplomatic option is just like a lend lease or send volunteers where the receipt of the boost is prompted to agree. That would solve the problem best.
 
You mentioned that the Spymaster of a faction will get access to a larger pool of operatives. Does that mean that they will be able to recruit operatives from the pools of other faction members, or will their pool just be larger?
 
IRL it was not just that, for example:

The Soviet Union heavily spied on their Western Allies during the whole war. For example, the Cambridge Five (Kim Philby & comerades) were active in the UK, and in the USA a large network of the Atomic Spies infiltrated the US nuclear program.

Hungary and Finland shared intel not just about the enemies, but also about their major ally Germany. That was easy, since the head of the Finnish signals intelligence, Colonel Aladár Paasonen, was half Hungarian.

The USA and Finland did not declare war on eachother, but held friendly diplomatic relations thru the war, while they fought against eachothers allies. I don't know if there was any secret intel shared during the war, but at least the countries shared their views of the conduct of the war with eachother.

Ahhh. Trust No One. The name of the espionage game.
 
What about Japanese spies in US? For obvious reasons they will stick out. A large segment of the Japanese population living in the US were secluded.

There should be language traits also. This could be done by building language academies as upgrades to the Intelligence Agency. You can't just send a random spy to Hungary if he/she doesn't speak Hungarian.

An already advanced Intelligence Agency should have recruits coming in with at least 2-3 languages (usually home country language, a major language and a neighboring/foreign language).

My pastor, was a retired Colonel army chaplain, and was fluent in almost a dozen languages and had training on half of them from here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Language_Institute

This place was built due to WW2, so yeah, language is an important thing. And yeah, this is where OSS/CIA and State Dept officials gets their language training.
 
It's funny that people take what they ask and then complain that it's 'meh'. the cheerleading to a spy DLC was huge on forums months ago.

With me it was the other way around, I wasn't enthusiastic, spy operations didnt turn me on before, and now with these DEV diaries I'm getting more and more excited.

For those who said that feature is a "game within a game", they are wrong.. as long Intel/Spy interfere with economics/warfare its a feature completely integrated with the war effort.

I look forward to the Diaries regarding Intel rework and how and that spy stuff will integrate with this.
 
You mentioned that the Spymaster of a faction will get access to a larger pool of operatives. Does that mean that they will be able to recruit operatives from the pools of other faction members, or will their pool just be larger?
I think that means that the total number of spies they can have at one time is based on the size of the faction. So No Spy master about 3, add 1 per 2-3 (non-puppet) faction members or something like that.
 
Intelligence bloc is the most outstanding feature of HoI4. But please do not forget that It needs specialized Spy schools to train the agents. It must also have unique NKVD, SMERSH, Abwehr, Gestapo, SS features.

Also, i still wonder why there are no Officer /cadet/ corps and its dedicated Infantry school, Military academy /Command and Staff college, War college to train the professional generals/ as well as Air Force academy, Navy College until now? As far as we go deeper onto the military doctrine and the art of war in game the one must realize how important it is the professional army trained in specialized schools!
 
Intelligence and codebreaking will be their own diaries. We also have Operations which will probably be its own diary. Portugal, music/misc, errata, summing up, and then patch notes. Yup, we're quite a ways off it seems.

Looking good. I don't know what some people are complaining about. Podcat seems to have been pretty clear that agents will be doing counter-espionage by default so if you don't want to play around with the espionage system you can just recruit some agents and almost everything will be automated for you.
 
Limits the ability for AIs to spam you with espionage missions in SP, since AI plays by same rules in terms of limitations if you aren't spy master and there can only be 3(?) spy masters in entire game.
Isn't it Faction based, not ideology based. So 5 at a minimum in a historical game (Allies, Axis, Commintern, United Front, Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere), more in alt-history branches.