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HOI4 Dev Diary - Operatives and Missions

Hi everyone, today it's time to continue talking about espionage. We will be covering the stars and main resource - the Operatives.

Operatives are a new character type just like Admirals and Generals. But instead of leading armies of fleets they are used for 3 things. Defence of the homeland against foreign operatives, Missions and Operations (topic of its own diary).

Recruitment
Operatives are recruited from you Agency. The max amount you can have is dependent on the number of agency upgrades you have as well as if you are spy master or not. A spy master get access to a lot more operatives, depending on the size of their faction. A non spy master can still do things, but is a lot more limited due to this.

When recruiting you get to pick from 3 recruits (upgrades can increase this)
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Operatives start as recruits but can become full agents by gaining experience which will improve their abilities. There are various traits that can be gained when active as well as being possible from the start. Some are acquired from upgrades such as commando training in the agency. Sadly I didn't have art ready for traits, but here are a few examples we have:
Tough - will give up less intel if captured
Natural Orator - increased ability when it comes to diplomatic missions and creating collaboration regimes
Seducer - bonuses to missions and operations that require a soft touch (or whatever the enemy may be into)
Commando - bonuses to operations that require combat or stealthy infiltration
Double Agent -
a turned enemy agent will have bonuses to operate in their country of origin
Master Interrogator - Increases the capture chance of enemy operatives when working on counter intelligence.
As well as a bunch of other....

Operatives also have (at least one) nationality and will have a bonus to operating in their homeland. The Agency has some upgrades like Localized Training Centers that increases the chance of picking up agents that can pass as locals in foreign (including you enemies) nationalities. This is a mechanic that will be benefiting the Allies as operatives from German occupied areas can be recruited and sent back on missions where they will blend in easily.

Missions
Operatives can perform various missions on the map. The strength and impact of a mission generally depends on the size and strength of a network (more on those below).

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Counter intelligence - The default mission of an agent not doing anything else is to run Counter Intelligence in their home nation. This boosts the Counter Intelligence value for your nation and helps counter enemy spies.

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Build Network - The Operative will build a network of contacts in an area. Several operatives can help out either to expand the reach of the network or to build it faster. Networks have various passive effects:
  • Reduction of naval invasion penalty
  • Countering enemy dig in or planning bonus
  • Faster division planning when entering a network (based on the first enemy state on the path)
  • Improve intel advantage in combat locally (25%) (based on the intel ledger’s intel rework)
  • Gives static intel on the nation based on nation level strength. You will only get naval intel if the network encompasses ports, rest are even.
Networks target cities (VPs of particular size) and spread over an area. They can link up multiple operative's networks into larger ones. Here is an example of the British agents cooperating vs a single operative
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Here you can also notice "Sparrow" as the selected operative. Operatives have codenames of course (I had a lot of fun picking out swedish codenames)...

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Quiet Network - If you do not plan to make use a network right away you can place it in quiet mode. It will no longer give effects, but risk that any of your operatives are caught is now very tiny while still maintaining it. Perfect if you have prepared a large network for a future invasion, for example.

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Boost Ideology - This replaces the old diplo action as now your operatives will be able to affect the ideology of a target nation

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Propaganda - This mission is used to hurt a target nation stability and war support

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Root Out Resistance - Helps fight resistance

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Control Trade - Influence trade opinion by boosting yours and reducing enemies to give you a bigger piece of the the resources up for trade. If multiple nations are involved they cancel each other out, but it still limit 3rd parties.

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Diplomatic Pressure - Makes AI to want to accept only your faction, requires human players to have a higher tension/opinion level for joining other factions. If multiple nation’s Operatives are involved they cancel each other out, but it still limit 3rd parties. This can be pretty neat if you are competing with AI nations over where you want someone to join, as well as in multiplayer.

Defense
Operatives on counter-intelligence as mentioned above will help defend your nation together with the agencies base counter-intel value.
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This value affects how easily enemy agents can be discovered and stopped as well as how difficult it is to perform operations in your nation (see future diary). In this example there is a base value of 2 and the operatives add 3 together for a total of 5.

When an operative is discovered several things can happen:
Forced Underground or Injured - The operative had to abandon their work and lay low to avoid being captured. Any mission including networks will be on hold during this and networks will start to decay if no other agent is there
Captured - An operative captured by the enemy will be leaking intelligence to them and will eventually be killed (unless rescued). Operatives assigned suicide pills can also minimize the intel leaks here. Operatives who are caught also have a direct impact on their network as people working with them are assumed to have been captured along with them.

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Killed - In rare cases operatives may be killed in action leaving one of your slots empty where you will need to recruit a replacement.

The defensive game is mostly a passive affair for the defender as we were cautious of creating required micro, and by having a solid defense and capturing enemy operatives you might actually benefit a bit from the intel gathered on your enemies.

Thats it for this week. See you again next week!

Rejected Titles: CLASSIFIED
 
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We have tried to build the system with this in mind as games where you can stack spies are seldom fun
- non-spy masters are likely going to sit on 2 spies if they try to do this, and you will need both to make a dent as Propaganda requires a big network to have good effect and the other spy is doing the actual propaganda work. Getting 2 spies will require industrial investment too so its not free.
- the mission itself is stacking penalized if multiple nations do it
- defense is not stacking penalized and is as effective no matter how many attackers there is. So in this case germany would be capturing and gaining intel from spies who put a lot of effort into something that wouldn't be a lot stronger than a single big nations effort.

I think it can be good in combination with other strategies but I think its a situation that resource wise very much benefits the defender side (e.g Germany)


I like this mechanism ....too many operatives will muck things up...each additional agent increased chance of covert mission discovery much more than they add...."too many cooks get in the way"... However for the defending side there is no such thing as too many janitors....they can just continue to clean every little nook ....

I reality totalitarian nations have very large domestic security sectors ...in effect almost every person is under the eye of the state. Even the State Security agents are watched!
 
New logos should be pretty easy to mod in, and probably won't break Ironman. So not including one for every last country is not a big deal.
Yeah I know I just hope this can be done by Paradox But actually I have no confidence This may not happen at all So I think I will use mod anyway Thank you for your reply Let me know I am not alone Thank you
 
I think its ok to have the soviets needing allied help to survive for gameplay reasons IF the allied AI is capable of providing that help.
It currently is not.

Yeah, but wouldn't you think the solution is to buff the allies instead of a stronger USSR (?) Anyway, we will surely get the later after Husky when we get a Soviet rework
 
You're completely missing the point. There are groups of players that want voluntary boosting. As I said, in every game I've ever played, dozens of people request boosts. It's standard procedure. I thought it was safe to speak for the majority of the people I've played with who enjoy boosting.

...

Your idea of the "hoi4 setting" is flawed because you're speaking as if the game is fixed in historical boundaries. It is not... And mostly everyone seems excited about doing something different than strictly the historical options.

So... again... There are more options to change then there are to remain historical... Which means the idea of a "hoi4 setting" being strictly historical is ridiculous.

There is nothing unbelievable about helping to change a foreign government's ideology peacefully. It's realistic. And it would satisfy the majority of every player I've ever played a game with.

At no point did I argue against ahistorical games, nor did I even imply it. For the record, fighting the German Civil War, fermenting imperialists uprisings in the British Commonwealth and reforming the Austrian-Hungarian Empire were part of some of the best games I’ve had.

What I’m arguing is that the system of changing the political ideology of a whole other nation should be more than a simple diplomatic option that expends ‘political power’. My idea of the HoI4 setting is not about historical accuracy. It’s about the different aspects of a nation (politics, industry, strategy, intelligence, etc), and how they come together and drive the narrative of a war.

I don’t even dispute the idea of boosting your friends’ ideology. I just think that to do that, there should be some actual risk and effort involved to reflect the immense social and political task of swaying a populace to accept a different form of government (especially when a foreign government is involved) as well as resistance from the existing institution. From a gameplay perspective, it at least provides a pre-war challenge.

As to your final point, I’m afraid I disagree entirely. I can not think of a single occasion in the 20th century when a foreign government managed to push the government of another country to an ideological extreme without direct violence, the threat of violence, occupation, a coup or a civil war. Even the Anschluss was preceded by a brief civil war in the Austrian streets merely 4 years prior during which German agents were supporting far-right movements. I’m afraid, as far as I can tell, the idea that it could be in any way peaceful or in mutual interest is very much unbelievable.
 
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On the one hand, this is really cool, and I like that we're getting more depth added to the game.

On the other hand, I'm starting to get seriously concerned about feature creep potentially having a negative impact on the game. I won't say it's a bad idea until I get a chance to play it, but I'd really like it if some of the core mechanics were polished up some. The air war in particular is in desperate need of an overhaul, and has been for some time.
 
Do you at one Point intend to implement PoW Camps in Provinces so all the Divisions caught in Pockets will eventually not count as killed, but imprisoned, so you could theoretically free them and regain a very small part of your Manpower when taking the Province.

Not only will they not do that, just suggesting it is against the rules, so I suggest you delete it your post.
 
Looks intriguing (no pun intended), but I'm also kinda glad it's a DLC. It's something that's going to appeal to some people more than others, like the changes that came with MtG.

Also seems a little bit too close to the ordinary 4X "recruit spy, send spy on mission, hope they don't get caught" formula. I like how you need industrial strength to build up your spy capability, though, and how you build spy networks, and how this can tie in to partisans and land combat.
 
Looks intriguing (no pun intended), but I'm also kinda glad it's a DLC. It's something that's going to appeal to some people more than others, like the changes that came with MtG.

Also seems a little bit too close to the ordinary 4X "recruit spy, send spy on mission, hope they don't get caught" formula. I like how you need industrial strength to build up your spy capability, though, and how you build spy networks, and how this can tie in to partisans and land combat.

I know what you mean and I like the way they are going about it. I think they learned from MTG although it grew on me in the end. I like the way the spies default behaviour counters threats, that way you could play as Germany and ignore the spy stuff which feels to me like good game design. If you want to dip in and play the spy game, then do so as you wish.
 
I think its ok to have the soviets needing allied help to survive for gameplay reasons IF the allied AI is capable of providing that help.
It currently is not.
Soviet is probably pretty close to its historical strength, mostly it is Germany who get massive amount of factories while in reality it had slightly larger industrial power than Soviet (but maybe behind in terms of industrial techs in game term) and USA which is pretty underpowered compared to its historical industrial capacity. Maybe Soviet have too much manpower given they had manpower shortage atleast since 1943 but everyone maybe have too much manpower.

Too be a bit fair, Soviet fought the German army in 1941, while D-day was in 1944 when the German army was in a much worse shape and Germany had clearly lost in the east after battle of Kursk if not after Stalingrad. The 1944 Soviet army was also in bad shape but relative to the Germans the tied had turned. Had the western allies actually done operation unthinkable they could probably defeated the exhausted Soviet quite easily assuming their armies did not deserted.
 
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i hope not only employ the coup and trade "byas" by agents, the posibility to force a democracy to dont join allies could be interesting or in general to slowdown countries to get into war would be nice like a way to try to avoid or delay uk getting in the war with germany or the same to italy dont joining so fast france invasion (something in game is unrealistic and need a solution).
The docking rights should need agents like it was in real world in neutral nation, port usage doesnt was a open operation.
mybe not here but bypass countries in commerce trade could be add with agents, but mybe is something for future when make some chenge in comerce/supply
 
1. Is WAD I imagine, and also good design.

2. Also WAD, and good design.

3. You aren't' forced to play it. Your agents do counter-espionage by default so you can just leave them to it if you don't feel like doing anything else. Keep in mind there are other ways of gaining intel now, with recon companies and spotter planes.

The game's design has always been skewed very, very far in favor of minor countries. As far as the industrial side of things go, where balance isn't being touched, this is still the case. Minors being behind in the espionage game is a needed course correction and frankly, it still seems like it will be trivially easy for them to get into it if they want to.

What does "WAD" stand for? I can agree that the game has been skewed towards minor nations for a long time but this is a WW2 sandbox. If you want to play the absolute definitive WW2 experience than play the 1939 scenario which I am sure you have only done once or twice because it is terrible. Features like the the naval designer in MTG and the general and logistic overhaul in WTT were amazing and integrated into the game seamlessly. I stand by the determination that the way espionage has been portrayed is poorly implemented especially because it requires factories to construct what would already be existent in any country at the time.

The spymaster mechanic is a pathetic way of catering to us multiplayer players because even without being forced to we would already designate a spymaster just like we designate an air controller etc. As for your counter to point 2, we are forced to play it because if we cannot aggressively spy a nation without focusing solely on espionage you are at an inherent disadvantage. You should be able to spy in any way but the more you invest the better it gets. The way this DLC has implemented is an all or nothing approach. That is not a good thing, wouldn't you agree?

Looking forward to your response.
 
What does "WAD" stand for? I can agree that the game has been skewed towards minor nations for a long time but this is a WW2 sandbox. If you want to play the absolute definitive WW2 experience than play the 1939 scenario which I am sure you have only done once or twice because it is terrible. Features like the the naval designer in MTG and the general and logistic overhaul in WTT were amazing and integrated into the game seamlessly. I stand by the determination that the way espionage has been portrayed is poorly implemented especially because it requires factories to construct what would already be existent in any country at the time.

The spymaster mechanic is a pathetic way of catering to us multiplayer players because even without being forced to we would already designate a spymaster just like we designate an air controller etc. As for your counter to point 2, we are forced to play it because if we cannot aggressively spy a nation without focusing solely on espionage you are at an inherent disadvantage. You should be able to spy in any way but the more you invest the better it gets. The way this DLC has implemented is an all or nothing approach. That is not a good thing, wouldn't you agree?

Looking forward to your response.
WAD means working as designed.