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HoI4 Dev Diary - Poland Focus Tree Rework Part 2/2

Hello folks and welcome back to the Poland dev-diary extravaganza! This week, I am going to continue covering the changes coming to Poland in 1.11 Barbarossa and the unannounced DLC.Today we’ll be covering the DLC content.
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So, I’m going to start here with something a bunch of you predicted last week; you can indeed play as the Peasants’ Strike! A Poland with ambitions to restore democracy or embrace the communist revolution must first build an organized peasant militia from the rabble of disorganized farmers!
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No matter how many or few states join you in the strike, the rebellious state will be in a delicate balancing act between democrats and socialists. Your first step towards revolution is to sway the Front Morges to take up the peasant’s cause, the Morges being an alliance of political parties supported by a select few Polish generals including Sikorski.
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Each focus you do in this initial block will add 5 support to either communism or democracy, with a total of 50% or more being needed for one to assert dominance over the other and take control of the government.
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Similar to the Spanish Civil War, the Peasants’ Strike will be on a tight schedule, taking up to a year before the revolution happens. Poland will at first be able to add agricultural states to the strike, but by expanding the strike to factory workers, Poland will also be able to bring states from Poland’s industrial heartland into the revolution.
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Along with contesting for popular support, gaining military support will be vital for the movement. Using decisions, certain field marshals and generals will be swayed to your cause and gain the “Peasant Sympathiser” trait, ensuring that they will join your side when the war begins.
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Poland will begin with socialist politician Stanisław Mikołajczyk as country leader, but those who wish to see the return of Wincenty Witos will be able to bring him back to leadership via event.
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Once the civil war is won, Poland will be in a vulnerable state. Recuperating manpower and resources after a civil war will place Poland in a precarious position, so some concessions and outreach for foreign assistance may be needed.
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A communist Poland will have two options: they may be bold and elect an anti-Stalinist candidate as Chairman, or they may elect the Soviet-aligned Władysław Gomułka. However, aligning with the Soviets will come at the cost of ceding Eastern Poland, but will unlock a few focuses for dealing with the USSR.

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With democracy, Poland may take advantage of the Front Morges’ ambitions for closer relations with the French and create the Morges Pact, a sort-of Poland-led Little Entente. Going down this route will allow Poland access to the Between the Seas branch we talked about last week.

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Anti-Soviet communists will be able to denounce both Capitalism and Fascism, diplomatically isolating this people’s republic, but allowing for new expansion options and military bonuses against the empires of this world. In doing so, they will gain a powerful attack and defence bonus against major powers.
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Both democrats and anti-Soviet communists will also be able to declare the destruction of fascism a greater cause than the spread of socialism and align themselves with the British Empire. Doing so will allow Poland to renew her interests in colonialism and attempt to purchase colonies from Allied powers. By officially recognising the Maritime and Colonial League, Poland can purchase Madagascar, Palestine, and more. If any of your purchases are successful, Poland will have somewhere to build their forces in exile, should the front back home fail.

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No matter which option you pick, either conquering or building alliances with the Baltic States will allow you to create a new kind of Commonwealth: the Commonwealth of Socialist Republics.

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Moving on to the next branch, we have the Regency Council: Poland’s attempt to “restore” the monarchy. The Act of the Fifth of November was the promise of the Central Powers to release a Kingdom of Poland from the occupied territories of the Russian Empire, but the Regency Council of the newly formed Kingdom of Poland failed to crown a King before Józef Piłsudski declared the Second Polish Republic.

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With the Regency Council assembled, Poland will be able to choose from one of three claimants, each with their own complete political path. There were countless claimants and candidates for the Polish throne so it was impossible for me to make content for them all, so we have: The Hohenzollern, The Commonwealth Claimant, and the Cossack-King to choose from!

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The Commonwealth Claimant is perhaps the most obvious: Poland’s preferred candidate for King was Friedrich Christian. Christian was preferred due to Poland’s long connection with the houses of Saxony, and with a claimant so supported by the Poles, you are able to claim the throne of Lithuania without the need for warfare.

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Through decisions, Poland can trend monarchist sentiment up in Lithuania, and when it reaches high enough, they may either enter a civil war or peacefully take over the government. When either case has happened, Poland can annex the Lithuanian Kingdom and begin integrating the industries of their two nations and preparing for war with the Soviets and Germans: restoring the old borders of the Commonwealth and then some!

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Poland and Romania enjoyed close relations at the start of HoI’s timeframe, and with the throne of Poland empty, Poland may throw herself into the complex mess of Romanian politics by electing a Romanian King.

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With King Michael on the throne of Poland, the Kingdoms will be able to unite under the right circumstances. Either by Polish interference or by Romania completing “King Michael’s Coup”, Romania and Poland will be united, bringing their armies together and becoming a powerful wall between the Axis and the Comintern.

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This Intermarium nation may seek Balkan Domination and a restoration of Poland-Hungary, or (as with the Commonwealth) it may seek to maintain its alignment with the Allies.

Finally, we have the most unlikely candidate for the throne: Pavel Bermondt-Avalov.
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A warlord, a cossack, and a Georgian Prince, Pavel led an interesting life of conquest and warfare. In the interwar period, Pavel and his Bermontian host invaded Lithuania and Latvia for reasons historians are still unsure of, but his ambition for Baltic domination makes him the ideal candidate for militarizing the Polish state into action and dominating the Baltics and Czechoslovakia.
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When done conquering the Baltics, Pavel will be able to either turn his militarized Polish Kingdom against the Germans and asser Poland’s claims in Silesia and Pomerania or, as a National Socialist, Pavel may wish to seek alignment with the Germans, which brings us on to the fascist branch.
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Poland was home to a multitude of fascist and nationalist movements: the most notable of which are the Endecja (or National Democracy) and the Falanga. The Sanation historically made dealings with both of these groups, and as such, if you want either Endecja or Falanga to take control, you must collaborate with the Sanation until you are able to supplant them.

When either Endecja or Falanga have taken over the government, they will have a choice to either stand firm with Polish nationalism or make concessions to the Germans and attempt to seek an alliance.
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Aligning with the Germans will not place you on equal grounds, and it is not as easy as it once was. Germany will refuse to ally with Poland unless Danzig and Poznan are surrendered and Poland becomes a German subject. Unlike Czechoslovakia though, the Poles will be able to break their shackles and tear the Reich apart from within.

With either Pavel, Piasecki, or Dmowski in control, Poland will be presented with a ladder of focuses enabling them to either gain powerful bonuses from the Germans or plot with the Underground State to overthrow their current masters.
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Going for independence will allow Poland to switch sides and stab Germany in the back, whereas remaining loyal will enable Poland to gain some cores in the USSR in a sort-of reverse Yalta Conference.
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However, a Falanga or Endecja that does not bow to the Germans will be able to lean into the Polish Catholic identity and form the Falangist International: a faction devoted to the perseverance of Falangist ideals.
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Once the Spanish Civil War is done with, if either the Carlists, Nationalists, or Falangists come out on top, Poland will be able to bring them into their own faction and from there, they will be able to expand that faction to other nations where Falangism was present such as: Mexico, the Netherlands, and much of Latin America.

They will have access to decisions to boost fascism in those nations, and with a certain percentage achieved, those nations will be invited to join the Falangist International. These focuses invite multiple nations at once, so the faction can grow very large very quickly.
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Similar to the Sanation path, the Polish fascists must choose between allying with Lithuania or attempting to reclaim the legacy of the Commonwealth, but choose wisely. Without allying Lithuania, this Poland will be unable to progress down the Between the Seas path, severely limiting their faction’s ability to expand.

That’s about it for the political paths, so I’ll wrap this one up by talking about a feature we haven’t touched in quite some time: Governments in Exile.
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Unlike France and the Netherlands, Poland does not by default have a vast colonial empire to which they may retreat when things fall apart back home, so Poland will be entirely reliant on the support and goodwill of their allies and the network of resistance fighters in the Polish Underground State.
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In exile, the Polish government went through a number of Prime Ministers and Presidents before landing on something the Allies were satisfied with. If Poland is following a historical route and is exiled in a Democratic nation like Britain or France, they will demand the resignation of the Sanation leaders, and from there, Poland may pick from one of three new leaders, each with a unique personality enabling them to gain manpower while in exile.

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On top of that, they will gain access to Irena Anders as a political adviser, granting more legitimacy, stability, and exiled manpower.

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In the exile focus tree, Poland can gain a number of offmap factories and dockyards, and bonuses to their ace generation and an increase in special forces cap. Poland will never muster a major army while exiled, but with these bonuses, Poland will still be able to keep fighting on with a small but specialised force.

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Owners of La Resistance will gain access to a slew of agency bonuses including an increase to their spy capacity, free agency upgrades via focus, and the new Warsaw Uprising operation.

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Completing the operation will trigger the Warsaw Uprising sooner than the game mechanics usually allow. With 50% resistance or higher in Polish states, the uprising can be started, but time this well as you can only complete this operation once. A well-timed uprising can shatter the German army and leave them short on supply as they attempt Operation Barbarossa.

Poland was also vital to assisting in decrypting the enigma machine, so they also gain access to the Mastermind Codebreaker advisor: Marian Rejewski.

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The old Cyclometer and Bombe focuses have been moved into the espionage branch, but I noted that without any territory left, a bonus to atomic research was fairly useless to Poland. So, when the Atomic Research focus is done, Poland gains an offmap nuclear reactor that will give roughly one nuke per year... Try not to think too hard about it.

There were a lot of interesting alternate-history scenarios for Poland to explore and new possibilities came up during my research and implementation. Though I didn’t represent everything in game (such as the proposed Japan-Polish alliance), Poland is a treasure-trove of alternate history scenarios if only you can find a way to survive.

That’s all for this week, and that wraps up the two week Poland extravaganza!
 
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Please explain to me this "diplomatic plausibility". ... Or Poland had a personal union with Romania?
If the devs don't want to scrap their concept of Poland-Romania, one might write a narrative like this:

  • 1936: Romania and Poland agree to another 5-year renewal of the Cordon-Sanitaire Alliance (historically so)
  • More diplomatic effort is spent to strengthen ties early on rather than after the Munich conference
  • Poland-Romania economic and military cooperation is expanded (think more equipment licenses, railroads, etc, they did export lots)
    • this annoys Hungary
  • Carol II (not Michael) is given an honorary title as King of Poland as a symbolic gesture (he already had a Polish army unit dedicated in his honor)
    • this is mostly symbolic with little practical effect; both countries are still fully independent diplomatically and internally for all intents and purposes
    • this annoys Hungary as well
  • Its the late 1930s, major powers are distracted elsewhere
  • The Soviets are more aggressive in this timeline
  • War breaks out, Romania calls in Poland due to the defensive alliance
  • Poland & Romania are losing the war
  • Bucharest is soon threatened with other major parts of the country occupied
  • The Polish government proposes something akin to the Franco-British union
    • This keeps the Romanian army from capitulating and has the Romanian administration move to Polish soil
  • Small chance to agree
  • Kingdom of Poland-Romania forms as a gesture to keep morale up
    • We finally get a unified dual-country
  • What happens after and how long they stay together is anyone's guess
I wouldn't call this an "I-win button" since it would require a very specific set of steps and such a proposal implies that you're already losing a war (put a warscore requirement AI logic-check if you want to avoid exploits). Such things get deep into alt-history, and I'm sure that others have their own thoughts on different possible narratives or alternatives.
 
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I understand the pragmatic reasons behind Poland being able to purchase colonies, which is for them to have a place of exile without going to a foreign country, but it really sounds like something from the 19th century and seems ill-fitting. if this gets removed or changed into something else and the nuke is changed to a national modifier of some kind, I think most of the controversy here would be over.

You could also reconsider the addition of the Pavel dude and think about adding the Habsburg monarch in some way.
 
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This has to be one of the better written posts explaining why it is so hard to create a Poland game in HOI4. Without going way outside the margins, Poland does not have a realistic chance in hell of surviving the first few months after being attacked. That is no fun. Players demand fun. Ergo, players are given the tools to have fun, or they go elsewhere.

In my opinion, the developers are in a no-win scenario. Poland cannot realistically survive. Not enough players would play a loser Poland. Players will burn the house down if Poland is ignored. Therefore, developers must create a survivable Poland.

I absolutely agree, we could have a more realistic focus trees, with the proper characters in their expected positions, but no matter how many times you rearrange those chairs, that ship is going to sink and sink fast. How many people are going to play that, no matter how many scholars give it accolades?

Filing in the game space from a realistic Poland to a surviving Poland requires giving the player options that will later need names and explanations. Since there is no realistic option for Poland to survive; these game options are pure fantasy and enter instant meme territory. When faced with such impossibilities, at least try to make it fun for the player. This adds another layer of fantasy. Adding names to those game options adds yet another layer of fantasy. All this fantasy is going to draw criticism, loud criticism in this case, but no better solution.

Even so, the names given to these fantastical political organizations and the people who would lead them could be better related to the history of Poland before the war. I agree. Many others do, too. The developers have made it clear they have heard the criticism on that and the nuke. Could we please stop kicking that can and hear some input on the rest of the Polish update? I rely on people who know more than me to critique new content and all I am hearing in 25 pages of posts is the same thing over and over.
So then, why not invest the time instead and give Poland in exile (and other nations) a more interesting path to play, even when their cores are taken?
More plausible, and you still can play the nation, even after they lost their home country...
 
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So then, why not invest the time instead and give Poland in exile (and other nations) a more interesting path to play, even when their cores are taken?
More plausible, and you still can play the nation, even after they lost their home country...
That is a very good idea. Actually, I think they did take the time to do some of what you said. It looks like Poland will be able to field a small amount of units while in exile, use focuses, have some off map factories, etc...
 
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Have a busy couple of days and suddenly Poland has an off-map nuclear reactor! Cheers for the DD Meka, there's sooooooooo much gameplay here. People could legitimately play Poland for longer than they would play most non-Paradox strategy games, let alone other games :cool: Much respect for all of your hard work and great ideas :)

It's Schrodinger's nuclear reactor.

Hahahah, love it :cool: It seems some people got a bit excited by this. While it's a bit of a stretch, it's hardly game-breaking, and could easily represent Poland successfully lobbying for a bomb or two from the Manhattan Project, Tube Alloys (in an alt-history world where it goes all the way) or similar. I actually think it's a lot less implausible (noting its on the GiE track) than some of the reactions thought it was. A legitimate design choice for sure imo, and entirely consistent with the range of "fun but perhaps a bit of a stretch" alt-history choices already in the game (which I very much enjoy) :).

Mango sorbet and blueberry icecream. The mango was pretty good, blueberry was alright. Overall, Stockholm ice cream is acceptable.

And for a good portion of the year in Stockholm, to store ice cream all you'd need to do is leave it outside on the window-ledge!

The only beef I have with this DD is that there was a limited amount of naval content, although given the game isn't "Turbines of Iron", I guess this is forgivable. If the unannounced PDS game is Turbines of Iron, then it's even moreso :)

However, riffing on the off-map reactor discussion, for a naval pic and to highlight that nuclear bombs in 1945/46 aren't the same as nuclear bombs now (although, in both cases, I still recommend giving any detonations a wide berth!), here's the US Attack Transport Geneva (APA-86). On the 1st of July she survived "Test Able", an aerial detonation of an atomic bomb. Then on 25 July, she survived "Test Baker", a submerged detonation of an atom bomb - four days later she was back in normal operation, and steamed to Kwajalein and then the US, where she was returned to the US Maritime Commission and remained in reserve until 1966. She'd have been far worse-off if she'd been hit by a single, normal torpedo :)

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In 2018 during the FIFA World Cup. I drank whiskey with the Polish nationalists, and you completely surpassed all their fantasies) Question: Why does Poland have claims only to the Western Lands of the USSR? Remember the times of False Dmitry in Russia, they wanted to take Moscow for themselves.
 
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The reaction to the Soviet focus tree will be one for the ages I think.
 
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Roundup of common suggestions:
  1. Get rid of the Russian Cossack Nazi Russian Warlord
  2. Change the off-map reactor to bonuses to major allies
  3. Add the Habsburg
  4. Other people up in arms about the intricacies of the communist / socialist organizations
I mean, these are all valid points (especially the nuclear reactor), but really, the amount of outrage here is uncalled for. Some ideas for those upset about Pavel: don't buy it, set the game to historical, or pick a polish path at game setup.

At the end of the day, this is one tree in a large DLC, with lots of trees and a large rework of land combat. If you want to nitpick about this, do that, but like, it's a couple of paths out of a large DLC.

@Meka66 great work on this tree, thanks!
its going to be larger than the soviet tree prolly
 
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The reaction to the Soviet focus tree will be one for the ages I think.

Shall I prepare a bag of popcorn for you? I'm genuinely worried how the Russian fan base will react after seeing how the Polish fan-base reacted to the tree. I wish the devs at lot of good luck on handling this, and my sympathies have to go to the admins here who will have to clean up the mess after the DD.
 
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Shall I prepare a bag of popcorn for you? I'm genuinely worried how the Russian fan base will react after seeing how the Polish fan-base reacted to the tree. I wish the devs at lot of good luck on handling this, and my sympathies have to go to the admins here who will have to clean up the mess after the DD.
It is only appropriate that when the Soviet tree drops, that the player base honors the largest land campaign in world history with the largest pout fest in forum history.

Gird your loins, lads! The coming rage will quickly move from anger, to pitiful, to falling down laughing out loud ridiculous.

Seriously, though, I am much more interested in seeing what new tools/mechanics/what-ever-you-call-its that the developers introduce. If you spend anytime looking at the mods out there, you might understand how far new tools can take the game with the help of modders, God bless them all. Just look what little Poland brought us with some GiE tools. I am hoping that might open a brand new door for the mod community to explore. The DDs are just beginning and we already have that, supplies, railways, river transport, and TRAINS. Good grief, this DLC is going to be huge.

If you are not mad at something by now, just wait, you will be before its over! The good news is, if you let yourself, you are going to find some good stuff in there, too.
 
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Казак в Польше - это нормально. Даже при польских королях в польской армии было от 2000 до 5000 известных крылатых гусар и более 10000 казаков. Но меня, русского человека, очень интересует, что парадокс сделает с СССР. Я хочу Тухачевского вместо Троцкого в союзе с немецкими генералами или восстания белой армии в Маньчжурии или в Средней Азии по подстрекательству Мосли))
 
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It is only appropriate that when the Soviet tree drops, that the player base honors the largest land campaign in world history with the largest pout fest in forum history.

Gird your loins, lads! The coming rage will quickly move from anger, to pitiful, to falling down laughing out loud ridiculous.

Seriously, though, I am much more interested in seeing what new tools/mechanics/what-ever-you-call-its that the developers introduce. If you spend anytime looking at the mods out there, you might understand how far new tools can take the game with the help of modders, God bless them all. Just look what little Poland brought us with some GiE tools. I am hoping that might open a brand new door for the mod community to explore. The DDs are just beginning and we already have that, supplies, railways, river transport, and TRAINS. Good grief, this DLC is going to be huge.

If you are not mad at something by now, just wait, you will be before its over! The good news is, if you let yourself, you are going to find some good stuff in there, too.
this is such a cope holy shit
 
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I don’t think I will be too nitpicky here but Endecja was at least by 1936 very much fascist.

Nationalism doesn't equal fascism, the National Party was primarily focused on democracy however the youth section of the party was more fascist leaning and many actually left to form the falangist group, it should be a choice between going with the old or the young sections ultimately.
 
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Nationalism doesn't equal fascism, the National Party was primarily focused on democracy however the youth section of the party was more fascist leaning and many actually left to form the falangist group, it should be a choice between going with the old or the young sections ultimately.
Just like Francoist Spain then, you can choose to remain non-aligned or to switch to Falangist Fascism.
 
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Wait, what?
Marshal Tukhachevsky was on very good terms with many generals of the Wehrmacht. Before joining
Hitler to power, the German army trained in the USSR bypassing Versailles. Thanks to joint training, Tukhachevsky learned from the Germans what a tank blitzkrieg was and made many "friends" in the German army.
(In Russia, after the Civil War, everyone believed in cavalry. Tukhachevsky laid the foundations for the formation of Soviet tank corps).
Conclusion: There is a theory that if Tukhachevsky had raised an uprising against Stalin and his repressions, then the dissatisfied in the Wehrmacht were more motivated to overthrow Hitler. Well, then fantasy: the Union of 2 countries
 
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Marshal Tukhachevsky was on very good terms with many generals of the Wehrmacht. Before joining
Hitler to power, the German army trained in the USSR bypassing Versailles. Thanks to joint training, Tukhachevsky learned from the Germans what a tank blitzkrieg was and made many "friends" in the German army.
Oh, yeah, now i remember that Soviet-German secret army trainings (including a Tank School) in Stalin's early years before Hitler's rise to power. (Can't disclose on how i remember that recently without looking on Google or Wikipedia, sorry)

Hope my guy know about this and incorporate it into one of the what-ifs scenario.

Probably can be inserted in the token meme Monarchist path or in the Conservative Democratic Russia path perhaps.....
 
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Ах да, теперь я вспоминаю учения советско-германской секретной армии (включая танковое училище) в первые годы Сталина до прихода Гитлера к власти. (Не могу рассказать, как я это запомнил недавно, не заглянув в Google или Википедию, извините)

Надеюсь, мой парень знает об этом и включит это в один из сценариев «а что, если».

Вероятно, может быть вставлен в символический мем «Путь монархиста» или, возможно, на путь консервативной демократической России ...
Сколько места для маневра?
1) Генералы хотят Данциг, Тухачевский и хунта хочет отомстить Польше + Восток.
2) Генералы хотят пивзавод и острова от Японии, Тухачевский и хунта Сахалин + Маньчжурия + порт Артур.
3) Генералы - ребята, мы собираемся вернуть Эльзас +, а также Африку .... Хунта: Хорошо, тогда мы наконец-то вернем проливы и наши Балканы ... ниже Австрии немцев нет.
4) Генералы - дадите хром? Хунта - мы так устали рисовать линкоры, рисуйте за нас.

Значок Проверено сообществом
 
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