HOI4 Dev Diary - Stability and War Support

[Dan1109]

Decent improvement to the game, but please continue to consider more important improvements to poorly working features of the game such as navy. I think improving 1/3 of the combat focus crititical to 4/5 of the Majors is key. The last two features will improve the game, but corrections of the major navy issues and AI, plus new navy features, would be one of the stellar improvements this game needs.

Seamen are troops too! Take care of my seamen!

 

[Pyro157]

Brilliant idea: I love this change!

This could be very interesting for China and Communist China. For China, their war support would certainly be very high-they absolutely refused to surrender even with no foreign aid-but I think stability would be fairly low to reflect the country's fragmented nature, unless steps are taken to increase it. War support during the civil war could decrease heavily if the KMT perform as badly as they did historically, leading to unique events such as increasing defections from the National Revolutionary Army to the PLA.

For Communist China, their war support would start off low but get increasingly high, while stability could increase slowly, reflecting Mao's various power struggles with rivals back in Yan'an.

 

[BernardoAZ]

The idea of adding "Gold" rather than "Money" is one I support.

As all currencies were pegged to gold (Bretton Woods), trade was basically in gold. So think of it as the Central bank's gold supply. You can run a trade deficit, but if your gold supply runs out. you can't trade anymore and must cut back on imports. I suggest ignoring that gold can be mined since the game is short timespan as you say. If you run a trade surplus, you amass gold and can afford a deficit later by living off savings. A HOI4 trade currency should only be usable for trade between nations and not interchangeable with anything.

As mentioned by others, gold could be physically located in the nation's capital (or in a fortress with an armored division guarding it: Fort Knox, built in 1936). Depending on factors such as air superiority, naval superiority and encirclement (already in the game) gold could be captured.

The Bretton Woods agreement was only created in 1944 by the Allies, as part of an effort to prepare for the post-war reconstruction. The interwar period was marked by efforts to reestablish the pre-war gold standard, but it was problematic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard

One of the problems with "money" is that different nations adopted Keynesian policies at different times, with different impacts on inflation, interest rates and unemployment. Building a full economic model for all of the nations in the 1936-1948 period would be difficult. It is easier to model gold.

 

[McLovin28]

Looks good!

 

[mwyeoh]

Wow, these changes are awesome!
They make a lot of sense and I hope they are implemented well

 

[Pyro157]

The idea of adding "Gold" rather than "Money" is one I support.



As mentioned by others, gold could be physically located in the nation's capital (or in a fortress with an armored division guarding it: Fort Knox, built in 1936). Depending on factors such as air superiority, naval superiority and encirclement (already in the game) gold could be captured.

The Bretton Woods agreement was only created in 1944 by the Allies, as part of an effort to prepare for the post-war reconstruction. The interwar period was marked by efforts to reestablish the pre-war gold standard, but it was problematic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard

One of the problems with "money" is that different nations adopted Keynesian policies at different times, with different impacts on inflation, interest rates and unemployment. Building a full economic model for all of the nations in the 1936-1948 period would be difficult. It is easier to model gold.

For Spain, there's the famous case of their entire gold reserve being sent to Moscow in exchange for large amounts of Soviet weapons and advisors: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_gold

 

[SeekTruthFromFx]

Germany didn't have elections, true, but the Nazis were very aware of public morale. They were very worried that the German population would stab them in the back like they (thought) it had in 1918, and made sure to keep the sacrifices the general population had to make to an absolute minimum until Stalingrad. War support is not just approval rates, it is the willingness of the population to bear the rationing, the extra shifts at the tank plant, the willingness to buy war bonds, the likelihood that they will pull strings to get out of the draft or volunteer and so on. Basically faith that a war would be winnable and that your side is morally right.

Yes, Evans argues in Why the Allies Won that these factors were absolutely crucial to the outcome of WWII. The USSR stayed in the war because Soviet civilians worked long and hard in the factories. The Anglo-American Allied populations did not push for new leadership despite a series of incompetent defeats (the Fall of France, Pearl Harbor, the Fall of the Philippines, Singapore) because they believed their cause was just. By contrast, parts of the German leadership (I'm looking at you, Wilhelm Canaris) had little confidence in their cause, and civilians weren't fully mobilized until late in the war..

Any feature to invest in propaganda to raise war support

yes. we got some propaganda ministers, but there are other ways. I cant show that yet though as its not done :3

I think it would be fun and strategic to build radio stations, representing the role played by broadcasters like the BBC, Beromünster, Radio Moscow, Lord Haw-Haw, Tokyo Rose, the Voice of America, and 'the biggest aspidistra in the world'. Radio stations would increase domestic war support and decrease enemy war support. They would be the civilian counterpart to radar stations, so their effectiveness would depend upon the percentage of the relevant country that they covered, with more powerful transmitters (larger coverage areas) becoming available through technology. Coverage areas could be shown in the diplomacy mapmode with waves radiating out from the transmitter (similar to the radar stations).

You could take this further by making it possible to select the programming on your station(s). There would be buttons with these options:

- Home Service: increases your war support and your ideology's support in your own country

- World Service: increases your allies' war support; increases your ideology's support in other countries

- V Service: increases resistance strength in territories occupied by your enemies

- Black Propaganda: decreases the war support of your enemies and countries in other factions; increases the success chance of the coups you are staging

These buttons could be placed as an additional row in the Political screen to select the output for all the stations. Alternatively or additionally, you could make it possible to click on each station's icon on the main map to select the output for that station. Another form of fine control would be to add a column of checkboxes in the Diplomatic screen so that players could choose where to focus their propaganda efforts.

How would players use this? If an Italian radio station in Rome broadcast Home Service, it would improve domestic war support and therefore the morale of Italian forces. That might be important if you want to survive an anticipated Allied invasion. If an Italian radio station in Milan broadcast Black Propaganda, it would lower French war support and the morale of French forces. And of course it could do that without a declaration of war, which would add a whole new dimension of 'soft power' to the game. The fine control options would allow a neutral Italy to favour a French or German victory without actually fighting. Any player who switched ideology might find that Home Service is important to increase support for the new régime.

I don't really understand how the HoI4 AI makes construction and political decisions, but I tentatively suggest that it would build radio stations in its homeland if it was not expecting to fight soon, and near enemy territory if it was at war but no forces were actually in combat. If fine control options were added, then the National Focus system makes it relatively straightforward to help the AI make sensible decisions. For example, if Germany selected Befriend Czechoslovakia, then it would get a radio station near the Czech border, set to broadcast World Service to Czechoslovakia (supporting its ideology there, without the need to use National Spirits). If the UK selects the Influence China NF, then it would also construct a radio station in Hong Kong and set it to broadcast World Service programming to China (increasing Chinese war support and making China more democratic).

 

[Alex_brunius]

The team is split on the issue of money. 14 out of 15 people on the team want money in. @podcat thinks differently.

The issue is that money played very little role in the internal economies. The Reichsmark was essentially monopoly money during the timeframe of the war. Inflation was an issue, but price controls and rationing could counteract that. Manhours spent is a far better value to assess the "cost" to the war economy of building weapons. For the purpose of paying soldiers, the government could always just print money, so in this particular event the effect is simply that it costs more pp.

Personally, I would love to get money back in the game at some point, but it'll probably be focused more on international trade where you actually had to pay in hard cash.

I think some currency for internal "soft effort" that isn't necessarily political/diplomatic (PP) could fill an important role in the game, even if it doesn't have to be money directly.

The internal things you expect this currency to do would be things like funding research & development/variants, intelligence efforts as well as officers or investing in new production lines and event + upkeep currency.

This comes down to something fairly similar to what Leadership was doing in HoI3, and what Money was doing in HoI2-AoD. You could name it something else as well ofcourse, and a connection to consumer goods and western democracies would feel natural too.

 

[The_Meme_Man]

Really unexpected changes.

Now I am too excited for these HoI IV changes to be implemented.

And thank you Paradox for making my Field Marshall edition actually pay itself back with sweet content.

 

[ltccone]

I love these changes! I can hardly wait for 1.5!

 

[Anmity]

What happens when you're in two separate wars, one offensive and the other defensive?

 

[Porkman]

I think some currency for internal "soft effort" that isn't necessarily political/diplomatic (PP) could fill an important role in the game, even if it doesn't have to be money directly.

The internal things you expect this currency to do would be things like funding research & development/variants, intelligence efforts as well as officers or investing in new production lines and event + upkeep currency.

This comes down to something fairly similar to what Leadership was doing in HoI3, and what Money was doing in HoI2-AoD. You could name it something else as well ofcourse, and a connection to consumer goods and western democracies would feel natural too.

Congratulations, you just killed the idea of money. Alex, we have been through this.

"Any idea that was good and in Arsenal of Democracy will never be in Hearts of Iron."

 

[Porkman]

What happens when you're in two separate wars, one offensive and the other defensive?

Probably cancels out. I also hope they scale the bonuses and penalties to directness. So France doesn't get the full bonus that Poland does when Germany attacks.

 

[Karbinder]

So, do all of those random pop-up events that you get while justifying a war goal actually do something to your war-support since you're giving a reason to invade them?
("[Leader Name] denounces [Some country's] ideals", etc.)

 

[Stug_Life]

This looks awesome! Adds a lot more complexity. Will a puppet/colony/dominion capitulating affect your war support even more than an ally capitulating?

 

[EltharionDrax]

Nice changes! This indirectly confirms changes to the Major nations Focus-trees (minor changes, if nothing else) and like many have mentioned, the separation of Stability and War Support suits thematically not just with China but also with Spain. Will be interesting to see what the future brings.

 

[billcorr]

- All goods that is set to be for trade enters the (world) market, and as a general rule, you cannot control who buys it (unless you embargo, which is aggressive) or who you buy from. The price decides. (See distance price modifier below). So trade between England and Germany can be great in 1939 (as it was, historically). (I'td be cool if you could embargo someone and then ask other nations to join your embargo regardless of factions - US oil embargo of Japan).

Great post.

Regarding price: Perhaps a simple bidding mechanism a la M.U.L.E. ? fun fun fun just by itself.

 

[podcat]

I would like to see how Great Purge would be reworked to affect stability and war support. As well as Collectivism focus, which was goddamn useless compared to positive heroism and only provided some NU.

We have/are reworking a bunch of events and such due to these changes. basically all places that touched on NU.

What effect will comets have on stability?

Good point actually we'll have to think on this. would suck to actually lose stability now

I'm thinking of how this works for China which was not very stable, but had a ton of war support. (War support as in "Let's not surrender despite getting kicked in the teeth")

Well, early on China had pretty bad war support also. I dont think it was until there were major losses of territory that the people rallied fully

Couple questions for the devs:

1. Are you gonna add the ability to delete captured and produced equipment? Or the ability to lend-lease captured equipment? (I dont want 9 different types of fighter II in my stockpile etc.)

2. AI division template name changes. It really breaks the immersion when i fight against eg. a division called '15. Infantry Type 7'. Or just add events when AI unlocks some new tech it will change their existing templates so no more of these immersion breaking names.

Otherwise this patch is looking good so far

Well, stay tuned for diaries for info on more stuff coming. We'll be doign one every week.

What happens when you're in two separate wars, one offensive and the other defensive?

It somewhat balance out

 

[Gamer_1745]

Germany didn't have elections,

Well history would disagree with you:

1936
and

1938

True they were not open, free & fair elections. They did function to give legitimacy to the government actions. The new mechanics will help in this.

Event images from Third Reich Events.

 

[Porkman]

Well, early on China had pretty bad war support also. I dont think it was until there were major losses of territory that the people rallied fully

You should look into the Xi'an incident. The kidnapping of Chiang Kai Shek in December of 1936 made the country more stable and increased his support, but it was contingent on him resisting Japan actively.

Read three books. Jonathan Fenby's biography of Chiang Kai Shek, Seeds of Destruction by Lloyd Eastman, and Forgotten Ally by Rana Mitter.