HOI4 Dev Diary - Synthetic Dawn

[Antediluvian Monster]

some of its uses were similar and allowed substitutes. But not its use for heat resistant alloys. For example the engines on the me262 were very unreliable due to a lack of nickel.

In that case, why not represent it partilally with tungsten (as @Fulmen suggested) and partially with chrome (as I suggested).

Tungsten has good heat resistance and it's main use in the period was high speed tool steel (which is why Germany mostly didn't waste precious tungsten on ammo).

That piston planes don't need any alloying elements is a seperate issue IMO. Manganese contributing a bit to aluminium I could accept though, due to use in duralumin (but at the same time UK used manganese "D" steel to build hulls of just about every type of fleet warship).

I would say instead of adding Nickel as a new resources (which would make the game over-complicate) it is better to add this flavor by focus tree event. For example, if Petsamo is occuplied by Finalnd and Finalnd is not at war with Germany. Then Germany could be given a spirit that give bounus to certain equipment production. This is the sort of idea that could be implemented.

Agreed. There has got to be a better way of representing specific diplomatic, military and engineering cirumstances of every minor resource than just adding more resources to juggle. HoI3 strategic resources come to mind (high purity iron ore for Sweden?).

 

[Thundrag]

Anyone notice in the screenshots that Japan lost the entirety of it's 88 chromium in Kyushu? Thats a pretty big hit unless they're adding chromium to china or manchuria.

 

[LiberiusX]

Why would East Asia mean Naval? Only if Japan was the focus would it possibly mean Naval. The war in East Asia was for the most part NOT a naval war. Even the invasion of the Philippines didn't involve much naval combat. Only the Pacific War was Naval focused.

If China is the only real counterbalance to Japan in East Asia in the early-mid game, it makes sense that any updates to China and East Asia would require updates to Japan. Though a naval update would benefit all the majors to some degree, it would disproportionately benefit Japan and Britain, which would make the East Asia/Western Pacific region far more interesting for all involved.

This is all ideal of course. Though I like DoD, the Vanilla Axis NF trees don't really integrate with it as well as they could. I hope PDS takes this into account and does better this go around.

 

[Balesir]

Woot, +1 for coastal convoys . They were widely used by Italy and Germany as well as (less surprisngly) Japan, both on domestic, north african and occupied shores - iirc pretty much all that ore that Germany went to war with Norway over was shipped down the coast (I think from Narvik) using coastal convoys.

Absolutely correct. My father-in-law was employed for part of the war shooting at the ore transports from a rocket-firing aircraft - an endeavour terrifying for both him and the guys he was shooting at!

I didn't at all mean to imply that the UK was the only country for which coastal (and river) shipping was important; its use was pretty much universal. The US had very significant "cabotage" as well, which was heavily targeted by the U-boats in early 1942 (the "second happy time"). Pretty much all coastal maritime provinces should really be viewed as heavy shipping lanes.

 

[Balesir]

I would say instead of adding Nickel as a new resources (which would make the game over-complicate) it is better to add this flavor by focus tree event. For example, if Petsamo is occuplied by Finalnd and Finalnd is not at war with Germany. Then Germany could be given a spirit that give bounus to certain equipment production. This is the sort of idea that could be implemented.

That would imply that Finland is automatically on good terms with Germany, though, which seems likely but should not be a "given".

 

[scroggin]

I would say instead of adding Nickel as a new resources (which would make the game over-complicate) it is better to add this flavor by focus tree event. For example, if Petsamo is occuplied by Finalnd and Finalnd is not at war with Germany. Then Germany could be given a spirit that give bounus to certain equipment production. This is the sort of idea that could be implemented.

Having it as an event might be easier for the AI

Edit; to lump nickel in with other resources gives dozens of sources rather than the two options germany had of petsamu or siberia. It removes the critical importance of finland to germany.

 

[impspy]

To be honest, this is where things could get complicated quickly. If you added five more resources to the game, it would more accurately reflect the situation with countries like Finland. But, it would also make the game unwieldy in some respects (especially if you added 5 new resources and allowed equipment to use resources at a time instead of 3).

I wonder if the game would be better off with a HoI3-style "rare materials" resource to represent chromium, nickel, cobalt, antimony, etc, leaving the other resources as is.

 

[EltharionDrax]

I wonder if the game would be better off with a HoI3-style "rare materials" resource to represent chromium, nickel, etc, leaving the other resources as is.

That might be the simplest way to do it. Having one generic "rare resource" that could be given different modifiers to represent different materials essential to the war effort like nickel (and why not heavy water?). Being allied or on friendly enough terms with Finland (or you occupy Petsamo...) gives +10% to Me262-production while similarly reaching the right threshold with Norway gives -10% to Atomic Research.

 

[him_15]

That would imply that Finland is automatically on good terms with Germany, though, which seems likely but should not be a "given".

Indeed, I was just throwing out the raw idea of how could this be implemented, after all it's up to the Dev to decide and balance it out.

 

[Crowarior]

IDK if this was answered but will these new factories cost less because now you have to build 2 different refineries for both resources which actually hurts germany for example.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

IDK if this was answered but will these new factories cost less because now you have to build 2 different refineries for both resources which actually hurts germany for example.

I think there is still only a single refinery type, but separate upgrade paths depending on whether you wish to increase rubber or oil output.

 

[Condemned to happiness]

Great job so far!!!
Are you planning to rework the naval power balance?....Because I am tired to see AI Italy lose 150 ships in 1 month...Also, the way in which Free France manages to muster 20 divisions and Britain over 100 is beyond my comprehension after getting thrown off the continent. Plus the French fleet is not at all converted into the Vichy French fleet but rather both are spawn and it creates an unfair fight in the Mediterranean Sea.

 

[Crowarior]

I think there is still only a single refinery type, but separate upgrade paths depending on whether you wish to increase rubber or oil output.

So once you unlock 1936 tech you can build lvl 3 rafinery which gives you both and then later techs give you bonus in oil or in rubber without the need for construction?

 

[astec]

yea. saw no reason to limit it to later techs. few ppl ever bothered as I explained in the diary

Why did you remove Japan's Chromium? This will make Japan even harder pressed for Naval and Industrial buildup due to the amount of factories needed to trade for resources.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

So once you unlock 1936 tech you can build lvl 3 rafinery which gives you both and then later techs give you bonus in oil or in rubber without the need for construction?

Correct.

 

[billcorr]

Why did you remove Japan's Chromium? This will make Japan even harder pressed for Naval and Industrial buildup due to the amount of factories needed to trade for resources.

Anyone notice in the screenshots that Japan lost the entirety of it's 88 chromium in Kyushu? Thats a pretty big hit unless they're adding chromium to china or manchuria.

In 1936, Japan produced 3.66% of the world's chromium, according to one source (Mineral Yearbook).

Spoiler: World Chromite Production, 1940 Mineral Yearbook

The HoI4 wiki lists 2,021 units of chromium in HoI4 (accessed January, 2017. There likely has been an update to the Wiki or total in-game chromium).

3.66% Japan chromium x 2,021 units =

74 units of Japanese chromium

(@Thundrag and @astec, good eye noticing the lack of chromium in Japan. Perhaps the screenshot depicted in Podcat's post was in error? Historically, Japan produced chromium in 1936. But to be honest, the term "chromium" is just a name in a game that has multiple currencies...one of which is called "chromium")

Edit: Here's a wild guess why Podcat's screenshot did not depict chromium in Japan. The next version of HoI4 will introduce a different way to develop resources. Perhaps Japan will have a series of national focuses with which to activate their historic baseline resource values. There will be a national focus for chromium. A national focus for aluminum in Palau and Taiwan. A national focus for North Korean tungsten. Just shooting in the dark here!

 

[Axe99]

The Importance of interior river/coastal transport for countries at this time should not be underestimated.

I'm thinking of how it work on a systemic level... (If we have a supply system where supplies move across the map in some way as opposed to being teleported)

Would it be a good idea to have certain rivers be designated as "navigable" (think the Volga, the Yangtze, Grand Canal, the Rhine, the Nile, etc?)

You could have it so that every country with a navigable river/coast would start the game with a pool of "small craft" to represent civilian barges, tugs, junks etc.

They would serve two functions... The first and primary function would be as part of the supply system. Just moving resources and such up and down rivers and along the coast.

The second would be as "emergency transports." Think Dunkirk or the plans for Seelowe. If used this way, they would be super vulnerable... like if a destroyer so much as occupies the same sea zone for two hours.... they're dead. Also, super slow, and super easy to spot.

Now, these would be buildable but cheap.

They should regenerate up to a certain base level without industrial spending to represent normal people just building boats through normal industry.

However, the speed of the auto regeneration would depend on the draft level and level of war economy. Essentially, at full draft and full war economy, there would be no auto regeneration because all people and all materials are going to the war effort. (In which case, you'd have to build some actively)

Some good ideas there . A lot depends on (just spitballing here, please ignore any silly ideas ):

• If the devs are interested. Coastal and river transport was very important, but unlike road and rail transport, many haven't heard of it (it gets precious little referencing in many histories as well - it's more neglected than mine warfare )
• If they are interested, whether they want to go down the path of tracking resource, supply and equipment movements as 'flows' or whether they wanted to stick with the current 'paths'. If flows, what you're suggesting there sounds pretty promising, at least as somewhere to start. Flows would be better, as then it's possible for the British to attack the ore being shipped down the coast of Norway, the US to carry out Operation Starvation and the Germans to harass British coastal shipping. This'd be a bigger change though, so I'm not sure how feasible (but we can hope ).
• If paths, then you could perhaps have a similar stock of river and coastal craft, but they instead formed part of the total 'infra' number for that province - so raids on coastal shipping could reduce resource production via this mechanic, rather than interception?

In either case, there'd be a need to look a bit closer at littoral/coastal warfare a bit more closely. Things like choices for nations to focus on shipping stuff at night to reduce the chance of interception (Both sides in the Med, at least Japan in the Pacific), mines used to protect coastal convoy routes, coastal escorts, MTBs, and so on.

Absolutely correct. My father-in-law was employed for part of the war shooting at the ore transports from a rocket-firing aircraft - an endeavour terrifying for both him and the guys he was shooting at!

I didn't at all mean to imply that the UK was the only country for which coastal (and river) shipping was important; its use was pretty much universal. The US had very significant "cabotage" as well, which was heavily targeted by the U-boats in early 1942 (the "second happy time"). Pretty much all coastal maritime provinces should really be viewed as heavy shipping lanes.

Oh aye, sorry, I didn't mean to imply you were implying that . I was just citing a few more examples in my crusade for coastal convoys . Big props to your father-in-law, I've seen a little gun camera footage of that kind of thing, it does indeed look terrifying!

Great job so far!!!
Are you planning to rework the naval power balance?....Because I am tired to see AI Italy lose 150 ships in 1 month...Also, the way in which Free France manages to muster 20 divisions and Britain over 100 is beyond my comprehension after getting thrown off the continent. Plus the French fleet is not at all converted into the Vichy French fleet but rather both are spawn and it creates an unfair fight in the Mediterranean Sea.

Historically, the French fleet did split between Vichy and Free France. Most went Vichy, but the Vichy units were then inactive, they (by and large) didn't actually take part in any fighting against the Allies unless the Allies attacked them first.

 

[billcorr]

Anyone notice in the screenshots that Japan lost the entirety of it's 88 chromium in Kyushu? Thats a pretty big hit unless they're adding chromium to china or manchuria.

China or manchuria?

...or perhaps adding chromium to the Philippine Islands (PI) ?

Givin' +23 chromium love to the Filipinos would be consistent with The Islands' 1936 production.

Or, if one wished to reflect the PI's total war ('36 to '45) contribution of 7.4% total world chromium (chromite) production, +152 chromium for the PI would accurately represent the Filipinos' hard work.

Want to learn more?

 

[billcorr]

Looking at the pics reminds me that using only shades of green when viewing infrastructure levels makes it a little difficult to discern high and low levels. Could we maybe get a scale of red to green for that? I believe it would be a lot more helpful.

A bit of hijacking to emphasize a point: The game's visual display of data is a hit-or-miss proposition.

Some of the data visualization techniques are well done and help transmit information to the player (e.g. the units subtly move when a player mouses over a part of map not visited recently...the movement informs the player of what has happened while he "has been away")

Other data visualization techniques are not as sophisticated, or perhaps "a work in progress". The single color on the choropleth maps pointed out by @Fryslan0109 is an example of a cartography tool that could be improved (in this case, use a blended hue color progression instead of the featured green-only single hue progression ). A choropleth map visually displays data by shading or patterning areas in proportion to the measurement of the statistical variable being displayed on the map, such as supply or amount of sea zone control. A short discussion on visual display of information for supply lines in HoI4 is found here.

The good news is that the development team is committed to constant improvement. The game is good and getting gooder.

 

[ForsakenSoldier]

This is random and related to Romania's focus tree, but i will try to bring it to attention here anyway;

I feel that in the air focus branch of Romania's tree, the focuses "Air Superiority" and "Air Defense" should be switched. In my opinion it makes more sense to have "Air Defense" come after "Local Development"... you would develop your own fighters for achieving defensive air superiority and interceptions, which the Operational Integrity doctrine research bonus is ideal for.

The "Air Superiority" focus makes more sense coming after "Acquire Licenses" since you'd probably be with the Allies going that route, and they have the strategic bombers... which is where Strategic Destruction doctrine makes more sense.

Small thing, but i think it would help Romania's tree since I presume most people go "Local Development" for the IAR-80, but they waste the Strategic Destruction research bonus because they're already doing Operational Integrity doctrine.