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HoI4 Dev Diary - Tech Changes

Hello, and welcome back to another Dev Diary for Man the Guns. Today, we will talk about some changes we have made to the tech and research system.

The biggest of which is, of course, the new tech tree for ships and other naval equipment. It is quite extensive, adding over 50 new technologies. Smaller changes and additions have been made to the armor and infantry tech trees through the addition of amphibious armor and to electro-mechanical engineering through the addition of Fire Control Systems.

techtree.jpg


Many of these techs do unlock new modules, but some do not - ammunition techs, fire control methods and damage control training amongst other don’t, and instead provide passive bonuses. This makes them quite valuable as you don’t have to build or refit a ship to make use of them.

tech4.jpg


The industry tree has also been expanded to accommodate fuel refining and storage. As one would expect, the new technologies improve the ratio of oil converted to fuel, giving you more fuel for the same amount of oil. The oil branch of the synthetic refinery tree no longer increases the oil output of each refinery but instead increases the amount of fuel generated by each synthetic refinery (synthetic refineries are not required to generate fuel if you have natural oil production!).

tech8.jpg


Since this adds quite a bit of research to an already pretty full research tree, we have taken some steps to offset this increase.

tech7.jpg


The first is that we have made a 15% increase to research speed across the board. The second is that a lot of the research in the new naval tech tree (as well as all the doctrine research) benefits from the research with XP system that gives you a fairly significant research boost if you have enough XP of that type to spare. For things like fire control methods and damage control training, researching without XP is significantly more time consuming to represent the lower effort spent during peacetime rather than learning from, well, experience.

tech6.jpg


Lastly, we made some changes to how research bonuses are granted and how ahead of time bonuses are handled. Regular research bonuses are no longer reducing research cost but instead boosting research speed. A previous 50% reduction in cost is now a 100% boost in speed. Ahead of time bonuses have been changed to apply a flat reduction in years rather than a reduction to the penalty, so a 1944 tech with two years of reduction would be treated as a 1942 tech for the purpose of calculating research time.

tech3.jpg


That is all for today. Next week, we will take a look at some of the art and music coming in Man the Guns.
 
More minutiae to sell DLC. This will make navies more of a pain to build and manage. Easier to just make NavBombers or CAS and just shred everything on the ocean.

It will be laughable if all of this is released without a way to queue research.

This will all even further reinforce the idea that you go down only one path for each game - air, navy, infantry, tanks. It will be impossible to catch up to all of this navy tech halfway through a game.
 
More minutiae to sell DLC. This will make navies more of a pain to build and manage. Easier to just make NavBombers or CAS and just shred everything on the ocean.

I don't think so, just as there are techs to have better naval bombing there are also techs to improve anti-aircraft in your ships. And let's not forget that while you can have now tons of navals bombers in the next update those bombers will consume fuel.

Regardless of that I hope they nerf bombers a lot in next patch since right now they are just overpowered.
 
Ships work fundamentally different from other equipment. Lend Lease for all other equipment just moves stuff in the stockpile around from one country to the other. Lend Leasing ships (except convoys, which also exist in the stockpile) would require us to transfer actual units that are already on the map, and is a bit more complex (you need to select that specific ship, they need to have the manpower to man it, they need to have a naval base in range etc.). It is definitely doable, but it is not a trivial effort.
then, may be you can let to send ships as volunteers?
 
Two things immediately stick out about this dev diary
  1. Navies look like they could require a lot of research if they're well-balanced. I'll probably end up doing a lot of optimizations around which techs can be ignored without impacting naval efficacy too severely.
  2. The sped-up research speed is nice, but I doubt it will overcome the added research. Spending XP to speed up research looks interesting, but 50 XP seems too expensive. In games where I've destroyed the entire Royal Navy with NAVs and battleships I've gotten less than 200 navy XP.

You do get naval XP now from the naval exercises, which may change the value of nav XP in 1.6 Ironclad/Man the Guns
 
How does the experience bonus work? Is it just for the tech you're researching right now? So if you press the button after you've already researched half of a tech, does that means you've effectively wasted a bunch of experience than if you had hit it much earlier?
 
How does the experience bonus work? Is it just for the tech you're researching right now? So if you press the button after you've already researched half of a tech, does that means you've effectively wasted a bunch of experience than if you had hit it much earlier?

You have two buttons: regular research and research with XP.
 
Will we be getting Land to Sea bombardment? I feel like smaller nations would benefit from this since large nations can blockade them easily without taking any losses. This would also require land invasions in certain areas instead of just sailing past gun emplacements.
 
I really like the new naval tech system. The change to Ahead of Time bonuses seems a great improvement on the old system too. Researching with experience, especially for doctrines, is a welcome addition to the game (though is it base game or DLC?).

I can see why the devs chose to combine engines and hulls into a combined naval tech. There were no game-changing breakthroughs in naval engine or hull design in the game's era and ships almost never replaced their engines.

However, if there's an aircraft designer in a future DLC, it is surely essential that it has airframes and engines as separate techs/modules, for three reasons:
  • The same engine family could be used in fighters, bombers, and even tanks.
  • Both airframe design and engine design saw significant changes during the late '30s and '40s.
  • There are interesting trade-offs within airframes (e.g. wood+fabric frames with high speed & less payload vs all-metal frames with lower speed but greater payload) and engines (air-cooled engines took more damage but liquid-cooled engines were more often used in tanks).

The first point also means that an aircraft designer should come before a tank designer.

Last sentence is the best part of DD. I'm a bit tired of waiting for MtG/ironclad. I want to play with navy!

Happy new year!

Good changes hope for release as soon as possible.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I don't want release as soon as possible, even though I've already pre-ordered.

I want the devs to take their time to get the AI right. Since the AI can only be QA-tested after the mechanics have been written into the game and tested themselves, and since AI QA will be difficult in a game as complex as HoI, then the bulk of AI work will done towards the end of the process. I wouldn't want that to get squeezed out.

Even if the Content Scripters have finished writing the new features for this DLC, there are still many, many bugs (such as the Completed Focus bug for earlier DLCs) that they can work on in the meantime. This includes many AI bugs/weaknesses that are best handled in script (e.g. Germany's AI_Strategy file is twice the size of any other tag's, so there's plenty of room for improvement there).

So with all these AI improvements & bugfixes to announce, I hope that we have half a dozen AI & bugfix dev diaries to read through before release.

Question:

1. Fuel is burnable. Can i send out my strategic bombers for attack the storage facilities? It would make sence cause at moment strategic bombing hasnt that much effect. If a strategic bomber mission would target the storage facilities it could hurt the enemy war economy massively. It always needed to defend thm at any costs(with anti aircraft gun / fighter) [For further dlc spionage: it could make sese to identify the storage facilities before outbreak of the war as allied did in ww2]

Keeping the storage facilities intact or destroy them of the enemies would make the game more interesting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_campaign_of_World_War_II The plan estimated Axis oil production could be reduced by 50% by bombing.

Will strategic bombing become important in this dlc because of the fuel storage/production and effect on the whole game experience?

Can we expect changes in peace treaties with this big of a naval rework? Like limiting a countries naval or overall production in a peace treaty, or forcing them to destroy parts of their fleet. Also creating demilitarised zones and war reperations as in factories or resources would be a nice addon.

An earlier dev diary explained that Fuel Silos can be bombed and another gave some information about naval treaties (I would be surprised if peace treaties were modified though - isn't that out of scope for this DLC?).

If anyone needs to get up to speed on this patch/DLC, then you may find the link in my sig. helpful.
 
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Will adding more techs make it harder to stay on track for research?
 
That is all for today. Next week, we will take a look at some of the art and music coming in Man the Guns.
I can feel it getting closer and closer...

That aside, will we still have an AI DD before release?
 
So...
1. more research options: Great!
2. Ability to research quicker using experience: Good but will experience be gained faster?

but...
3. With many more research options are research slots still limited to 4 to 6 (pending country at play)?

If so that does not seem to be good at all or am I missing something.
 
Now that some perks for the Trade Interdiction Doctrine were already shown in the previous Submarines and Convoy Raiding Dev Diary, I wonder what perks do the Fleet-in-Being and Base Strike Doctrines have as well. :)

More firepower bonuses under FiB and longer ranges for all ships (and carrier planes) under Base Strike, perhaps?

(Just as I'm excited to try these new naval tech, I feel the same with naval doctrines too. :D )

EDIT: Art and music for Man The Guns next week. Sooo... more shanties?
 
Will adding more techs make it harder to stay on track for research?

From the OP:
Since this adds quite a bit of research to an already pretty full research tree, we have taken some steps to offset this increase.
The first is that we have made a 15% increase to research speed across the board. The second is that a lot of the research in the new naval tech tree (as well as all the doctrine research) benefits from the research with XP system that gives you a fairly significant research boost if you have enough XP of that type to spare. For things like fire control methods and damage control training, researching without XP is significantly more time consuming to represent the lower effort spent during peacetime rather than learning from, well, experience.
 
@Archangel85
15% faster research equals 15% more interruptions in the gameplay to pick new research.

Is there any chance that we could get a research queue? It could simply be done for each slot separately, so that it wouldn't offset the balance. I for one would love to create a long queue, rather than having to interrupt the gameplay flow too often.
 
Sorry if I missed it... but is there any info on either light carriers, or conversion into carriers from other dev diaries? I see that tech on the screen now...

View attachment 441902

You can just build them on the Ship designer.

Just give less deckspace, less AA, less...a.s.o., then you get a way cheaper CV with less airplanes on it

There is a Dev Diarie wich show that it´s possible. And here it is:
Hoi4 Dev Diary - Naval Treaties and Ship Refits
 
Two things immediately stick out about this dev diary
  1. Navies look like they could require a lot of research if they're well-balanced. I'll probably end up doing a lot of optimizations around which techs can be ignored without impacting naval efficacy too severely.
  2. The sped-up research speed is nice, but I doubt it will overcome the added research. Spending XP to speed up research looks interesting, but 50 XP seems too expensive. In games where I've destroyed the entire Royal Navy with NAVs and battleships I've gotten less than 200 navy XP.

Therfore you can train all your Units (Navy, Airforce and since the Game comes out Army) now. And with a special Politican you can gain +0,05 Training as well as with Attaches 20 % of all XP from Navy, Airforce and Army of the Partnercountry. That makes in sum of many XP´s you gain.

Im my Game atm I can upgrade my Airforce and my Army in 1936 and 1937 only with the XP I gain in Spain Civil War as Germany, Italy or USSR without Training.

In my Example with Germany I get my Navyfighters with 175 XP upgraded to historically Level called Type C-3 , as well as my Stukas with 175 XP to historicaly Variant B-1 / B-2 and the Bf 109 to historically Variant C-1 / C-2 / D-1.

The same in the Army with Germany (same Example). My Tanks I and II are both Upgraded in Engines (there both get full Engines).

Not to mention that I try to play historically esp. in the Upgrades of Ships, Army and Airforce. And with the new Naval Treaty System (the second emergancy Job-Site of the Game for the Navy) the Game get better and better now. :);)