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HoI4 Dev Diary - Tech Changes

Hello, and welcome back to another Dev Diary for Man the Guns. Today, we will talk about some changes we have made to the tech and research system.

The biggest of which is, of course, the new tech tree for ships and other naval equipment. It is quite extensive, adding over 50 new technologies. Smaller changes and additions have been made to the armor and infantry tech trees through the addition of amphibious armor and to electro-mechanical engineering through the addition of Fire Control Systems.

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Many of these techs do unlock new modules, but some do not - ammunition techs, fire control methods and damage control training amongst other don’t, and instead provide passive bonuses. This makes them quite valuable as you don’t have to build or refit a ship to make use of them.

tech4.jpg


The industry tree has also been expanded to accommodate fuel refining and storage. As one would expect, the new technologies improve the ratio of oil converted to fuel, giving you more fuel for the same amount of oil. The oil branch of the synthetic refinery tree no longer increases the oil output of each refinery but instead increases the amount of fuel generated by each synthetic refinery (synthetic refineries are not required to generate fuel if you have natural oil production!).

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Since this adds quite a bit of research to an already pretty full research tree, we have taken some steps to offset this increase.

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The first is that we have made a 15% increase to research speed across the board. The second is that a lot of the research in the new naval tech tree (as well as all the doctrine research) benefits from the research with XP system that gives you a fairly significant research boost if you have enough XP of that type to spare. For things like fire control methods and damage control training, researching without XP is significantly more time consuming to represent the lower effort spent during peacetime rather than learning from, well, experience.

tech6.jpg


Lastly, we made some changes to how research bonuses are granted and how ahead of time bonuses are handled. Regular research bonuses are no longer reducing research cost but instead boosting research speed. A previous 50% reduction in cost is now a 100% boost in speed. Ahead of time bonuses have been changed to apply a flat reduction in years rather than a reduction to the penalty, so a 1944 tech with two years of reduction would be treated as a 1942 tech for the purpose of calculating research time.

tech3.jpg


That is all for today. Next week, we will take a look at some of the art and music coming in Man the Guns.
 
So did a country like Soviet Union just get a flat 15% bonus to research?

They still have to research some technology to improve the amount of fuel they get from their natural oil. And while they doesn't need it in your regular game since you can trade with the allies, having synthetic rubber production doesn't hurt the Soviets.
 
They still have to research some technology to improve the amount of fuel they get from their natural oil. And while they doesn't need it in your regular game since you can trade with the allies, having synthetic rubber production doesn't hurt the Soviets.
Also, soviet Union has a bad start with tech and would not out tech ze germans, but historical SU was on par with German Tech w/o the Wunderwaffen.
 
I like the idea of spending XP to boost research. it reflects well the reality of war that accelerates research and innovation!

Also, now, the tank and plane tech trees seem a little neglected in comparison... (Or is it that there are too much new tech for the navy?!) I guess the next DLC will add some more new tech for the tanks and plane?!
 
Yeah, but the combined navy of UK and US is more then enough to kill of the Japanese fleet, so then again? why would anyone focus on a one sided naval combat.

Historically, yes. Once Japan triggered the wrath of the United States with Pearl Harbor, it was only a matter of time before the American industrial juggernaut builds more and more ships to overwhelm the IJN.

But then again, the in-game naval techs are there basically to give us players a chance to modify our strategies and research priorities instead of what the Japanese leadership used in real-life. Perhaps you could win, or perhaps you could make the war longer than usual and still lose. Either way, we all have new options thanks to these tech. :)

EDIT: Now that I thought of it, let's see if we (as Japan players) could adopt the German "wolfpack" tactics on Allied Pacific convoys instead of sticking to hunting warships. Or focus more on carriers than battleships IRL.
 
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Will the new way to spend xp on research be available to mod? This is the most significant quest there is because if we can add this to other techs it open up a lot of possibilities.

Also will spending xp on research be instant or will it take a short while without consuming a research slot? I hope it's not instant but stil quicker because instant research just feels wrong.

Lastly. I want to que research.
 
A research queue would be nice - just one, with the next item being moved into whatever slot opens up - not one queue per slot. If we feel a need to re-prioritize, we can just shift the items about by dragging and dropping as in the production screen, or we delete the queue and redo it.
 
a 1944 tech with two years of reduction would be treated as a 1942 tech for the purpose of calculating research time.

How viable is it still to rush 1944 techs? Sounds like it's still going to be doable around 1940-41, especially with the new +15% research speed buff that will buff hyperspecialising minors, that in multiplayer focus only on one or two things. Granted, it's an improvement to the current state of the game where both teams can easily get them in 1937-38 if there are no house rules against it, but I'd still rather not see P-51 Mustangs in the Battle of Britain. Unless there's going to be a server rule that restricts ahead of time research, it looks to me that our long lists of house rules in vanilla HoI4 aren't going anywhere.
 
Will we get changes to naval landings and the special forces system? It seems way too restrictive now and it's hard to have an army of marines to use for naval landings. You would expect to be able to have 10% special forces but it's more like 2%.
 
@Archangel85
15% faster research equals 15% more interruptions in the gameplay to pick new research.

Is there any chance that we could get a research queue? It could simply be done for each slot separately, so that it wouldn't offset the balance. I for one would love to create a long queue, rather than having to interrupt the gameplay flow too often.
This game is as much about the industrial war machine as moving dudes on a map.
 
Honestly am already looking forward to this update now that I've seen how the fuel system works and what's added, but the new research for naval makes me hope one day for it to spread to land and air too now.

Loving the ideas so far.
 
So are 1944-tech SHBB hulls going the way of the dodo?

...I am going to assume so, but at the same time, with guns, engine, AA, etc. all being upgradable, there may not really be need for a 1944 SHBB hull. Depends on what attributes/stats are tied to the hull though.

I suspect that the main difference is that 1936 SHBBs are going to have a lot of open slots, probably even more than the 1944 BB hull.

So did a country like Soviet Union just get a flat 15% bonus to research?

I mean, they aren't really getting any new techs they need to spend their research on (neither navy nor oil), but they still get that 15% bonus...

Kind of breaking the balance, don't you think?

This bonus applies to pretty much any land power, since the extra naval techs are mainly going to hurt countries that have to support both strong land armies and strong navies, like Britain, US, Italy, and Japan. Those same countries, minus Japan, are also going to get severely hurt by the nerf to tech bonuses, so those countries are getting double whammed.

To be fair though, Britain, Italy, and Japan all had technology issues throughout the war in land, air, and sea, so this is historically accurate. The US gets a 6th technology slot to compensate.
 
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It's also important to remember that up until the Battle of Midway, the Allied navies were stretched to the limit.

Sure, Midway could have been yet another draw, but the thing is that given the differences in industrial power and doctrine, a Midway-esque battle was inevitably going to happen sooner or later. Japan's ability to replace its ships wasn't getting any higher while the US just kept pumping out new ships. I don't mean to say that it would be easy; Japan probably could have carried on the war for significantly longer and it would be very expensive. But assuming no civil wars or things of that nature (which, let's be real: the US descending into a second civil war on the eve of WW2 is pretty "out there" alt-history), there is no version of the war where Japan actually wins.

Hence my position that for once, gameplay has to come before realism.
 
A research queue would be nice - just one, with the next item being moved into whatever slot opens up - not one queue per slot. If we feel a need to re-prioritize, we can just shift the items about by dragging and dropping as in the production screen, or we delete the queue and redo it.

A queue like that would be unhelpful for my playstyle. As a role-player, I allocate different slots to different departments (e.g. as the UK: Ministry of Supply 1, Admiralty 1, War Office 2, Air Ministry 1, Armaments Research Establishment 1). I doubt that there are many people doing this (and you may feel free to smile at my eccentricity! :)), but personally I would strongly prefer per-slot queues. Obviously opinions will differ.
 
How viable is it still to rush 1944 techs? Sounds like it's still going to be doable around 1940-41, especially with the new +15% research speed buff that will buff hyperspecialising minors, that in multiplayer focus only on one or two things. Granted, it's an improvement to the current state of the game where both teams can easily get them in 1937-38 if there are no house rules against it, but I'd still rather not see P-51 Mustangs in the Battle of Britain. Unless there's going to be a server rule that restricts ahead of time research, it looks to me that our long lists of house rules in vanilla HoI4 aren't going anywhere.
A possible solution is not to give out multiple bonuses for any tech, especially fighters and tanks. Japan gains one fighter and one heavy fighter blueprint, if everyone else got the same you would still see P-51's in 1941 but not 1939. Same thing with tanks, If Germany and the Soviets especially got one heavy, one medium and one light tank blueprint you wouldn't see T-54s rolling into Berlin.
 
A possible solution is not to give out multiple bonuses for any tech, especially fighters and tanks. Japan gains one fighter and one heavy fighter blueprint, if everyone else got the same you would still see P-51's in 1941 but not 1939. Same thing with tanks, If Germany and the Soviets especially got one heavy, one medium and one light tank blueprint you wouldn't see T-54s rolling into Berlin.

No because you still have allies you can license from. E.g. a common meta in MP is to have Australia research FTR 2s and then the US and UK licenses them to speed up their research and sometimes to license-produce them to build up production efficiency. It used to be Canada got FTR 2s and then Australia got FTR 3s, but FTR 3s are universally banned now in serious games, either altogether or till around 1943. There's also the faction research bonus on top of that.
 
A research queue would be nice - just one, with the next item being moved into whatever slot opens up - not one queue per slot. If we feel a need to re-prioritize, we can just shift the items about by dragging and dropping as in the production screen, or we delete the queue and redo it.
Add to that colour indicators for the tabs:
- green: at least 1 tech available that is not ahead of historical year
- yellow: only ahead of time techs in this tab
- red: no tech left in this tab

Would do a ton for overview and save a lot of browsing.
 
So did a country like Soviet Union just get a flat 15% bonus to research?

I mean, they aren't really getting any new techs they need to spend their research on (neither navy nor oil), but they still get that 15% bonus...

Kind of breaking the balance, don't you think?

It's paired with reworking the ahead of time bonuses and that is significant. With the old system, the meta was a lot about beelining for particular ahead of time techs (mostly fighters and medium tanks). Under that old system a 15% bonus would only make you reach those techs that much faster = imbalanced. However, with the new system, I believe you'll have to spend it more broadly so it makes your technology more varied, and not necessarily more powerful.
I like that.