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HoI4 Dev Diary - Tech Changes

Hello, and welcome back to another Dev Diary for Man the Guns. Today, we will talk about some changes we have made to the tech and research system.

The biggest of which is, of course, the new tech tree for ships and other naval equipment. It is quite extensive, adding over 50 new technologies. Smaller changes and additions have been made to the armor and infantry tech trees through the addition of amphibious armor and to electro-mechanical engineering through the addition of Fire Control Systems.

techtree.jpg


Many of these techs do unlock new modules, but some do not - ammunition techs, fire control methods and damage control training amongst other don’t, and instead provide passive bonuses. This makes them quite valuable as you don’t have to build or refit a ship to make use of them.

tech4.jpg


The industry tree has also been expanded to accommodate fuel refining and storage. As one would expect, the new technologies improve the ratio of oil converted to fuel, giving you more fuel for the same amount of oil. The oil branch of the synthetic refinery tree no longer increases the oil output of each refinery but instead increases the amount of fuel generated by each synthetic refinery (synthetic refineries are not required to generate fuel if you have natural oil production!).

tech8.jpg


Since this adds quite a bit of research to an already pretty full research tree, we have taken some steps to offset this increase.

tech7.jpg


The first is that we have made a 15% increase to research speed across the board. The second is that a lot of the research in the new naval tech tree (as well as all the doctrine research) benefits from the research with XP system that gives you a fairly significant research boost if you have enough XP of that type to spare. For things like fire control methods and damage control training, researching without XP is significantly more time consuming to represent the lower effort spent during peacetime rather than learning from, well, experience.

tech6.jpg


Lastly, we made some changes to how research bonuses are granted and how ahead of time bonuses are handled. Regular research bonuses are no longer reducing research cost but instead boosting research speed. A previous 50% reduction in cost is now a 100% boost in speed. Ahead of time bonuses have been changed to apply a flat reduction in years rather than a reduction to the penalty, so a 1944 tech with two years of reduction would be treated as a 1942 tech for the purpose of calculating research time.

tech3.jpg


That is all for today. Next week, we will take a look at some of the art and music coming in Man the Guns.
 
FDR approved the embargo against Japan after their forces occupied French Indochina. Also, while the British had to pay in cash any war material provided by the Americans China had access to the most generous credits.

So in a sense it's true that it's not pausible to see the Americans sitting idle while Japan conquers half of Asia.

The alternative history scenario I see quite pausible it's that another president might have accepted the Japanese offer to restore French Indochina in exchange of lifting the Embargo instead of asking complete withdrawal from China as FDR did in the negotiations that happened before Pearl Harbor.

I don't want to go overboard with the counterfactual discussion (as, by definition, we'll never get firm closure, that's just not possible for this kind of thing) but as WelseyTJ mentions:

I totally agree. FDR's re-election in 1940 was far from a sure thing. The final electoral college results look like a landslide, but the race was essentially tied in September. His late surge was due ironically to his promise to keep us out of war.

A President Willkie would have been far less likely to push us in the direction of war that FDR did.

As per the old saying "a week is a long time in politics" (although these days the time period could be shrunk somewhat I expect, with the rate of transmission of information). In that context, I'd argue it's impossible to assume the outcome of the 1940 election from the situation at the start of 1936, making it plausible in an alt-history situation for a more isolationist administration to be in power.

We're also talking about active participation in the war by the US as well - ie, the USN fighting the IJN, Kriegsmarine or Regia Marina. So while even an isolationist US might give generous credits to the participants on one side to purchase things, the topic at discussion is whether the USN would be actively intervening in the conflict, giving the Axis both the RN and the USN to fight against. I'm definitely not trying to make the argument that a US would see the world going to pot and do absolutely nothing - that's a whole 'nother argument (and one I doubt I'd agree with, although I haven't sat down and thought about it).

That said - as with all counterfactuals - these are just the best musings I have - there is no 'right' answer :). There's absolutely nothing wrong with disagreeing with the above :).
 
I agree. Naval XP is dreadfully slow and hard to get. I can't think of a game (with 700+ hours) that I've ever even maxed out Naval XP.

With MTG comes exercising naval fleets (per prior dev diary). Guess what? You'll have considerably more naval experience to play with after MTG, assuming you have the fuel (and priority) to have naval exercises.
 
wow tons of stuff has changed and seems like alot more good stuff is incoming since i was last able to play! The changes to how chain of command/generals is brilliant! A Field Marshall in charge of a army group of five armies that each have a command limit of 24 units, absolute brilliant stuff! Feels right! plays great! I also like how you can now attach air wings to armies now, absolute brilliant!!! and best of all they seem to automatically redeploy to the closes airfield to keep up with the army advancing.

The air command map mode is brilliantly done, very easy to get to grips with, although i can't help but feel there is an enormous amount of aircrafts being deployed at any one time, i'm not sure if there should be a combat width in the sky, production cost increased or the rate of aircrafts being shot down increased since having 10,000 fighter dog-fighting in a single region although glorious surely take up a huge amount of resources and production just to maintain air superiority that seems to eclipse the ground combat in some regards yet suffer smaller losses. I think with a combat width, and maybe higher kill ratio it should allow for a better attrition battle in the air to win air superiority while allowing the advancing or defending army to take advantage or buy the time for this to happen. Would be pretty neat if squadrons could better take advantages of shifts/sorties if a exhaustion mechanic was implemented so they could better take advantage of the combat width.

Currently i have all my squadrons flying both day and night since i cannot see any negatives for not doing so, i think during the battle of Britain, the allied pilots were at breaking point and were only able to regain some respite due to the Luftwaffe deciding to bomb cities instead of airfields, which speaking off has typing this i suppose another way to win the air battle is to bomb the enemy air field. Overall just a minor criticism, and for what its worth the air battles work well enough that seeing dogfights rage over the battlefield is most satisfying, not to mention transports being able to drop supplies into the battlefield. Overall the air warfare aspect is great, and i guess extra mechanics may over complicate things, but the sheer amount of aircraft needing to be deployed at any one time seems a bit over kill especially when Malta was initially defended by three Gloucester gladiators i think. Overall just a minor criticism, the only limiting factor for the airwar are airfields currently acting has an indirect combat width for one side or the other.

Stability, war exhaustion and decisions that allow you to boost these and go tall slightly by increasing factory capacity for influence are great too.

Looking forward to getting my hands on man the guns, already liking the ship battles, can watch those all day cheering on my battleships to get stuck in while my destroyers fight tooth and nail trying not to get sunk, i like how you can see how many ships your ship has sunk and which ships they were too, looking forward to trying out mines for a new strategic layer. I noticed Germany doesn't seem has aggressive with its submarines anymore which is a shame since i use to get out all the bells and whistles to make sure i sink them with naval bombers and destroyers, also i've noticed the naval war aspect seems to diminish somewhat towards the end game just when i'm able to get my hands on the bigger and better ships which is a pity although not sure if this changes with man the guns. Could be neat if the ai does look at trying to obtain superior upgraded fleets if they're more dependent has a sea faring nation, like Japan and at the same time can protect them until they are ready to deploy them in force in a decisive battle. Could be neat if you can upgrade or break down old ships for a production boost to replace them with better ships so manpower isn't tied up and productions isn't entirely wasted. So a country lacking resources looking to upgrade it navy can break down 5 old destroyers for 2 new destroyers. Although i don't think there any historical context to back up such a mechanic outside of re-purposed ships for military use.

Also looking forward to the fuel mechanic and after seeing how all these mechanics I've have noted in my absence have been implemented, i'm pretty sure paradox have got this, hopefully at some stage, when we've all had our fill of blood the custom nation designer will arrive for more! Excellent dev diary! again loving the idea of using experience to boost research, absolute brilliant! a well thought out mechanic that makes complete sense and has historical context to it too.
 
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Hi will you add the Labour Party to the Uk
If we will ever get rework of the politics.
Also I'm pretty sure that with the new DLC UK gets event for changing the Churchill for Clement Attlee, it should change the name of the dem party from Conservative to Labour.
@Bratyn
Could you be kind enough and confirm if the UK gets possibility to get Attlee*?

* As the country leader. He's in the game currently as the democracy-boosting guy.
 
Yes well I have played all the previous Hearts of Iron games, Victoria and Europa, but this issue has finally got me to post something on the Forum. It is pure frustration that something so important as Invading is made so difficult and not at all user friendly.

I was just surprised you were able to post with an unmerged account and that you never posted before despite it being such an old account. To the newer joiners that don't know, old accounts had to be merged with the new forums a few years ago to continue posting.
 
If we will ever get rework of the politics.
Also I'm pretty sure that with the new DLC UK gets event for changing the Churchill for Clement Attlee, it should change the name of the dem party from Conservative to Labour.
@Bratyn
Could you be kind enough and confirm if the UK gets possibility to get Attlee*?

* As the country leader. He's in the game currently as the democracy-boosting guy.

Not only with Clement Attlee, but also more options/decisions/flavors if we choose Lord Halifax as PM over Winston Churchill. Please. :)
 
It would be nice if they would show us what technology each major and minor nation had historically researched during every year of the war. I like to roleplay in a historical way. And since there are only a couple start dates...
 
It would be nice if they would show us what technology each major and minor nation had historically researched during every year of the war. I like to roleplay in a historical way. And since there are only a couple start dates...

Well, there are a LOT of books and websites that PDS used to research all that info......... Do you want the devs spending time colating and typing all that info for you instead of working on getting MtGs released, or maybe you could look it up?

If there is something specific you want to know just ask on the forum. There are plenty of people here who probably know the answer.
 
Th
Hello, and welcome back to another Dev Diary for Man the Guns. Today, we will talk about some changes we have made to the tech and research system.

The biggest of which is, of course, the new tech tree for ships and other naval equipment. It is quite extensive, adding over 50 new technologies. Smaller changes and additions have been made to the armor and infantry tech trees through the addition of amphibious armor and to electro-mechanical engineering through the addition of Fire Control Systems.

View attachment 441860

Many of these techs do unlock new modules, but some do not - ammunition techs, fire control methods and damage control training amongst other don’t, and instead provide passive bonuses. This makes them quite valuable as you don’t have to build or refit a ship to make use of them.

View attachment 441859

The industry tree has also been expanded to accommodate fuel refining and storage. As one would expect, the new technologies improve the ratio of oil converted to fuel, giving you more fuel for the same amount of oil. The oil branch of the synthetic refinery tree no longer increases the oil output of each refinery but instead increases the amount of fuel generated by each synthetic refinery (synthetic refineries are not required to generate fuel if you have natural oil production!).

View attachment 441858

Since this adds quite a bit of research to an already pretty full research tree, we have taken some steps to offset this increase.

View attachment 441857

The first is that we have made a 15% increase to research speed across the board. The second is that a lot of the research in the new naval tech tree (as well as all the doctrine research) benefits from the research with XP system that gives you a fairly significant research boost if you have enough XP of that type to spare. For things like fire control methods and damage control training, researching without XP is significantly more time consuming to represent the lower effort spent during peacetime rather than learning from, well, experience.

View attachment 441856

Lastly, we made some changes to how research bonuses are granted and how ahead of time bonuses are handled. Regular research bonuses are no longer reducing research cost but instead boosting research speed. A previous 50% reduction in cost is now a 100% boost in speed. Ahead of time bonuses have been changed to apply a flat reduction in years rather than a reduction to the penalty, so a 1944 tech with two years of reduction would be treated as a 1942 tech for the purpose of calculating research time.

View attachment 441855

That is all for today. Next week, we will take a look at some of the art and music coming in Man the Guns.
This makes me really wet
 
IL doctrine therefore is aimed at surviving a long battle of attrition

I am honestly struggling to believe you took such an incorrect lesson from Israel's defense history. Israel knows they are outnumbered and fundamentally on the backfoot, that's why when they are attacked they act decisively before the other guy can make much of a move so as to end the war in as many areas as quickly as possible. That's the polar opposite of attrition. You don't win wars of attrition in a matter of days or weeks; it takes months and years to bleed an army dry. You're citing their advanced weaponry as evidence of a doctrine but as I said, that's just evidence of them being far along in the tech tree. Doctrine has little nothing to do with what weapons you wield except insofar as it pertains to what categories of weapons you can even obtain. Doctrine is all about how you use those weapons.

Likewise, the reason Chinese medics are generally less effective in game than German ones (as you mention) is that they have less medic upgrade tech. They aren't inherently worse. If you aren't seeing that, I think then you might have a fundamental misunderstanding of the tech tree as a concept.

And hire some smart people for battle tactics. Instead of giving them their own values.

What exactly are you even trying to say with this? What values?
 
I'm a bit concerned about the generic Cruiser hulls. IRL light and heavy cruisers were quite different creatures - the former lightly armed and armoured and mostly used in the screening role (akin to "heavy destroyers"), whereas the latter were genuine capital ships with everything that entails in arms and armour. Can these features be combined in a plausible way within the new design mechanisms?
 
Really like this tech tree and XP system. Got to get that for air and army ASAP. Would love to see some kind of "Command and Control" research dictating how many carriers can operate in a group. Something similar for army as well, limiting width for a division and support per division. No idea how to apply it to air though. Excited to get this new expansion.
 
Given that there are no motor boats as a ship class in the game at the moment, asking for more is a bit jumping the gun. However, the German e-boat-British motor boat channel war would be a fun addition to the game.
Mtbspatrolingforeboats.jpg
 
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Given that there are no motor boats as a ship class in the game at the moment, asking for more is a bit jumping the gun. However, the German e-boat-British motor boat channel war would be a fun addition to the game.
Mtbspatrolingforeboats.jpg

I see. Patrol boats would have been a fun addition and "stopgap" for minor nations before considering larger warships.

If patrol boats are going to be implemented (hopefully in the future), I see them as capable of gaining XP (not as much but will do) However, they are extremely weak even against destroyer types, and would take huge penalties when they find themselves at combat in open seas.

Easy prey for aircraft and larger ships but can be used en masse (and kamikaze attacks if Japan). Just my 2 cents.
 
Most exciting!