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HOI4 Dev Diary - War Changes and Game Difficulty

Hello everyone, last week we covered the last of the new focus trees, so from now on we will focus (heh) on new features and changes again. Today we are going to start off by talking about changes to how wars work as well as sharing some very interesting telemetry data!

War Changes
When we planned out Waking the Tiger, we knew that we wanted to solve several issues with wars once and for all. The game wasn’t really set up for 3-way-wars and it tried to stop you from 3-way wars as much as possible, and if it failed some pretty nasty bugs could happen. Wars could in certain cases end up either having to force friends into war, or drop people from wars which usually really messed up both multiplayer and singleplayer when it happened. It was all just a nasty and horrible mess on the code side as well.

Our changes effectively mean that now every two nations at war have their own little war and we instead present wars as a summary of sides that make sense. How you look at a war as a player shouldn't really look any different now. This was a massive change that has taken us a lot of time (and quite a bit of sanity), but I am confident that it will have been worth it with all the issues it has solved and freedom for players it will enable (particularly for mods that like to do a lot of wars from events and focuses where there was a big chance of things working out wrong - not naming any names).

When playing, the biggest changes you will notice is that wars merging now is a lot smoother. War score, casualties and such are properly tracked and retained. Its now also possible to fight 3-way wars (or more) so we can handle Axis vs Comintern vs Allies vs The Japanese co-prosperity sphere etc.

The war interface has also gotten a bunch of changes:
Screenshot_1.jpg

  • You can now filter nations like minors, capitulated, or nations who aren’t called in yet
  • We show nations that could be called in, but aren’t in blue (so you can see that the soviets have not called in Republican Spain yet), this is instead of the old interface where there was separate lists, now a button appears if you yourself have the power to call them.
  • We group up factions and summarize stats for them for easier comparisons
  • The interface lets you pick among your wars, but there is also a War Summary that collects all war allies and enemies in one big page. The interface also scales with your screen size, so it's much easier to get an overview of large complex wars now.
Screenshot_2.jpg


One of my favourite new things is that we show a breakdown of the casualties, so you can see how many casualties you caused for a specific nation:
Untitled-2.jpg


Difficulty Settings
We are slowly building up better and better telemetry on HOI players and I really love to share it with the community when it’s surprising, and this one surprised me a lot actually! It turns out that close to 40% of players prefer to play on the lowest difficulty setting. I would have expected this to be quite a bit less!

difficulty.jpg


As number of hours you play goes up people migrate away from recruit a bit. So for players with less than 50 hours played, 60% of them use Recruit and after playing 200+ hours only about 28% still use Recruit. Veteran shows the largest relative change. For beginners, it is 1.4% who use it and it goes up to 3.5% for 200+ hour players. The vast majority use Regular. It's the difficulty setting that doesn't give you any bonuses or penalties so this is usually what people prefer. My design philosophy is to try and stay away from direct combat bonuses and such that will make you learn the game in the wrong way. I prefer buffing things that allows a player to play more sub-optimal, so faster research (or slower so you must make more optimal choices), smaller losses on efficiency when changing production lines or less impact of lack of resource and such. It's also important to only affect the player as you don't really know which of the nations will end up on their side or as enemies. For example, in HOI3 depending on country it could actually be easier at harder settings, since certain nations were advantaged by that in an allied role.

So what are we doing about this? First of all we are adding two more settings (the gods of symmetry demand it!). A new difficulty before Recruit called Civilian and a new harder difficulty called Elite.
upload_2018-1-24_16-16-49.png


I also thought I would mention that we haven't really analyzed the custom difficulty settings yet but plan to in the future. I always recommend them to tailor your game. Say if you want a particularly strong Soviet to fight as Germany.

See you all again next week! Also don't forget to tune in to World War Wednesday at 16:00 CET where we start a new campaign to show off all the new stuff in Waking the Tiger as a Chinese warlord on the rise!

Rejected diary titles:
  • Dan Lind's "War and Peace (Book One of Four)"
  • War (screen), What is it good for?
  • I guess we don’t need to spend all the work we do on improving the AI after all
  • War. War sometimes changes
  • You can't fight in here. This is a wargame forum.
  • Players online usually lie about the size of their conquests
  • You get a war, and you get a war! Everyone gets a war!
  • Maybe finally Quill18 can now play competitive multiplayer without getting shafted by a war-merge bug!
 
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I hadnt really thought about this but I guess it could be good to have as well. its a little tricky because of the amount of them. The way I think about stuff I eventually want to have something more like game settings for Ck2 etc where you can customize a lot abotu the game. This would be a fit there.

I actually think it should be in the game since TfV. A setbox determinging the probability of countries turning to another ideology (depending on wether they are majors or minors) or the puppets' willingness to break free could make the game far more unpredictable and interesting.
 
These new war changes sound great but I have to wonder, take for example the teaser from yesterday the Italian-Greek war say for example Greece has been capitulated is that treated like a normal war finishing with the victors claiming states and equipment or does that just mean that little war is gone form the screen and the fighting continues?

It sound's stupid to ask but I was curious because of the war changes.

Great Q, my friend and I are unclear on this as well.
 
I can honestly say this is he first expansion/patch that I am genuinely 100% excited for and I will certainly give the game another huge look on release... namely as Japan and ChiCom.

Also, love the Patton reference :D
 
For the time being, how difficult would it be to allow players to type in their own name for the war if desired? Even if it's just for cosmetic purposes? Or would that require a similar level of work to going the full hog?

Really nice idea - I second this if it's possible to squeeze in before release
 
yeah its a very interesting question my guess is:
- forum community is still a very small part of all owners, so even if you all play on max difficulty the number would still work out
- people dont like to say they play on lower difficulties
- people may be using custom difficulties a lot more as some ppl said, nerfing your production isnt always fun, so may be better to buff the enemy
- MP players are 14%, and wouldnt really be using this right so that affects numbers too especially if a lot of good players go to play MP instead as a challenge

but yeah its very interesting, what do you normally play on for SP?

I've tried Veteran (even before reaching 100 hour mark), being really motivated to live up to the quote and whatnot, but in the end I found out that it's just a way to make myself suffer and cut content out of the game without really affecting difficulty (or increasing my challenge). Production penalty is perhaps the most reasonable and straightforward challenge-wise - you just need to produce more stuff, dedicate more factories, etc. Research penalty messes up the research order somewhat, as others have said, but otherwise it's mostly unnoticeable. In the end, it's the political power penalty, which on even a stable country with steady 2 PP income results in 2x lower PP gain over time (because abstaining from undertaking national focuses is rather an exception, not the norm), which, for example, means that you get a law/cabinet/designer change about once a year - so many of those options effectively end up ignored because of that. I understand it as a design decision (thank you for that explanation - it was really insightful) and I agree that it is good to let people faff about more on lower difficulties, but as far as the opposite goes... Well, it can work too, but I think it currently goes a bit too far with enforcing the singularly most efficient (the very bare minimum) route every time, any time.

Personally, I'd love for a new difficulty to be added as intermediate between the old Regular and Veteran instead, and judging by those player numbers I might not be alone in this. But for all I know, the default average PP gain after the patch might be 2.5 or 3, so even with NF ongoing cost and the difficulty penalties you've showcased thus far, the results will be more forgiving and closer to what I'd wish for than it currently seems.
 
A small suggestion for you developers:

Could we get the posibility to destroy naval bases that has been constructed in a province? For instance, if I play as Germany and take over Norway, I might want to reduce the amount of naval bases that I need to put defensive units at. Is this something that you'd consider adding to the game?

;)
 
@podcat Can we get some discussion about improving the ai using template designer in mods and in the base game. In the black ice mod (which is a great mod) the ai doesnt add supports for example and only adds in random cavalry or takes away a random regiment in the main core. It was so bad I think they made it impossible for the ai to change templates by requiring more exp than is possible for the ai to change their templates...
 
Can you please fix the Multiplayer bug which allows ghost chatters to spam the lobby;

And please fix airzones so that they show the actual number and type of allied planes instead of being blank! (I think this was broken in 1.4, it used to do it this way).

And please give us a release date! What else is left? :-D

They have not made a single change to the multiplayer game since the games release. It is still bugged to fuck and there have been 0 QoL improvements. There is a single change, map pinging, coming to this patch. You won't get your multiplayer wish.

There was so much potential for the MP in this game but its fallen by the wayside due to lack of demand from the community. I've given up with it now.
 
Hi Podcat,
what I often do to increase difficulty is to simply play minor nations. After all the decision of the nation to play is the biggest difficulty of all.
And then there are sliders to just buff the right opponents.
In any case I think you will be mistaken if you think now that less work on the AI is needed. Credible immersive AI behaviour cannot be replaced by difficulty settings.
 
Excellent! Loving the new casualty count and the interface. Looking forward to this!
 
@podcat Can we get some discussion about improving the ai using template designer in mods and in the base game. In the black ice mod (which is a great mod) the ai doesnt add supports for example and only adds in random cavalry or takes away a random regiment in the main core. It was so bad I think they made it impossible for the ai to change templates by requiring more exp than is possible for the ai to change their templates...

I coded a lot of nice improvements for the template designer last week actually. A lot of stuff is down to proper scripting of weights for templates tho. If they never add support the scripting of target templates is definitly wrong in black ice then. I've added some debug tools to make template scripting easier for ai scripters which will be in Tiger
 
Really was hoping to see some sort of offer/sue for peace functionality like in EU4/HOI2 series.

I know, before anybody says it, this game is focused on WW2. Doesn't change the fact that there are little proxy wars which shouldn't mean every major alliance gets dragged into every single war.

If there's a war that both sides have a lot of losses, but it's strategically a stalemate, I should be able to offer white peace.
 
Difficulty Settings
We are slowly building up better and better telemetry on HOI players and I really love to share it with the community when it’s surprising, and this one surprised me a lot actually! It turns out that close to 40% of players prefer to play on the lowest difficulty setting. I would have expected this to be quite a bit less!

View attachment 329772

As number of hours you play goes up people migrate away from recruit a bit. So for players with less than 50 hours played, 60% of them use Recruit and after playing 200+ hours only about 28% still use Recruit. Veteran shows the largest relative change. For beginners, it is 1.4% who use it and it goes up to 3.5% for 200+ hour players. The vast majority use Regular. It's the difficulty setting that doesn't give you any bonuses or penalties so this is usually what people prefer. My design philosophy is to try and stay away from direct combat bonuses and such that will make you learn the game in the wrong way. I prefer buffing things that allows a player to play more sub-optimal, so faster research (or slower so you must make more optimal choices), smaller losses on efficiency when changing production lines or less impact of lack of resource and such. It's also important to only affect the player as you don't really know which of the nations will end up on their side or as enemies. For example, in HOI3 depending on country it could actually be easier at harder settings, since certain nations were advantaged by that in an allied role.

So what are we doing about this? First of all we are adding two more settings (the gods of symmetry demand it!). A new difficulty before Recruit called Civilian and a new harder difficulty called Elite.
So much for people saying that Paradox gamers like high difficulty. Good riddence! Thanks for the data :)
 
They have not made a single change to the multiplayer game since the games release. It is still bugged to fuck and there have been 0 QoL improvements. There is a single change, map pinging, coming to this patch. You won't get your multiplayer wish.

There was so much potential for the MP in this game but its fallen by the wayside due to lack of demand from the community. I've given up with it now.

Yeah, i'm about to give up on the game as well. My time in the game has already dropped quite a bit recently.