Hi all,

I’ll be posting the dev diary on behalf of @Braindrift today, who’s taking us through the details of the Great Wonder construction feature which comes in the Heirs of Alexander pack!

Great Wonders
The Heirs of Alexander content pack will include a design-tool which allows you to assemble and construct your own Great Wonders. The tool gives you a 3D view of your construction, and once the building is completed, your creation will be represented on the world map.

The Great Wonder construction tool window​

You have 3 different categories of constructions to choose from; pyramids, towers and buildings. Each category has their own set of modules, like bottom, middle, top for towers, that can be interchanged and combined within each category to create the shape you’re going for.

The Great Wonder design window is reached from the building tab in the territory view, once there is a Wonder under construction, or completed, a fourth tab will appear that displays relevant information about your creation.

Materials
Each module has a material, the default is stone, which is considered to always be used as the main building component for a construction. Other examples are silver, ivory and marble, in total there’s 9 different materials which each affect the look on the module they’re applied to. To be able to use a material, you need to import its related trade-goods to the province in which you build the Great Wonder. If you for example have set one of the modules to be covered in silver, you need to import Precious Metals to the province. If you ever lose an import route, the progression of the construction will be halted until you’ve set up a new route for the required goods.

Model and material variations for some towers - Edit: More variations and categories at the bottom of this post​

Effects and Prestige
Your Wonder can have up to three effects, which are basically powerful modifiers, some with unique aspects that can’t be found anywhere else in the game. Some effects can only be used by unlocking the corresponding invention in the technology trees, while others are accessible to all. Each effect has four tiers, and the construction's prestige value is what decides what tier you can choose from. The fourth and final tier can’t be reached during the design phase, instead the Wonder has to age for some centuries, until it has accumulated enough prestige to be upgraded with the top tier effects. This means that the simple stone tower you built in the beginning of your journey can grow and become as powerful as the pompous gold abomination your neighbor saved up money for, but couldn’t complete until late game. Of course, this puts the burden on you to protect your cultural treasure, as prestigious constructions become highly attractive to conquer.

Effect selection window​

Costs, construction time and construction leader
The construction of a Great Wonder will be a massive undertaking to complete, even for large and advanced civilizations. There’s always an upfront cost in money from the treasury, which will be decided by category, materials and what effects you assign. The same factors affect the amount of work that needs to be done, but the final construction time is based on the number of slaves, tribesmen and freemen you have available in the province which the construction is built in.

Construction time is further affected by assigning a construction leader. Similar to military and naval leaders, there’s a significant dent in efficiency without a leader assigned, the construction speed being decreased by 25% without one. The governing stat for construction leaders is Finesse, which will speed up the construction by 5% per point.

We’ve also expanded on the character traits to make them relevant when choosing your construction leader, giving them effects such as improved slave efficiency from the Harsh trait, or some added construction prestige value from the Polymath trait.

There will also be a Political Influence cost, related to what modifiers you add to your construction. More powerful modifiers cost more PI. Upgrading or changing modifiers will also be related to a PI cost.

The envy of your neighbors​

Ancient Great Wonders
As a part of the Marius update, we’ve also brushed up the good ol’ Ancient Wonders such as Stonehenge, Colossus of Rhodes and Lighthouse of Alexandria. Each of them now have one of the tier 4 effects that you can use for your own constructions, making them both valuable assets to keep within your domain, and attractive targets for conquest. There’s also a number of events connected to the wonders, giving them some story and an additional management aspect.

/Braindrift

Edit: On popular demand, some more samples on what you can build.

Buildings

Pyramids

 

[Nerdman3000]

@Braindrift A question, but is what kind of wonders the AI will build dependent on their culture? So for example, a Greek is more likely to build a building rather than a pyramid, while a Egyptian AI is more likely to build a pyramid?

 

[IsaacCAT]

At this cost I would say that paying upfront should come with a discount. 36 years of payment in advance is a lot of accruement lost. Maybe we could make a 30% down payment and then monthly instalments? I am feeling like negotiating a trade deal here.

Before seeing these nice buildings I was as going to say that I would better let the AI build them and then conquer their lands, but now I want to build them myself, they look very nice! Why did you show those ugly towers first?!?

The tiers and effects will be up to you as a player to pick and choose from, any of these player created constructions could have any of the effects so it's not really relevant to show what effects they have as it can be any.

Constructions from the Building category

Constructions from the Pyramid category

 

[Todie]

what new deities are getting added?

Good question. And this reminds me - back in ~november when PDS-thalassic and wonders was first revealed, It became clear that the foundation for this system was outlined and worked on from a foundation before even the current religious system with customizable pantheons, holy sites and relics was in the game.

... it would otherwise make quite some sense to have some flavourful interaction between religion / relics / holy sites on one hand and wonders on the other. I dont know what that would look like exactly, but still.

... its one of those aspects i expect to leave quite some rome for improvement after 2.0 release - tying this work of thalassic in with features / content from patch 1.3 - 1.5.

... for example, imagine cultural decisions that move slaves to a province for the explicit purpose of wonder construction, or decision to increase citizen / noble ratio unlocked when science-focused wonder reaches high tier. Imagine a relic that increases the prestige generation of any local wonder.

As i understand it, Thalassics work on IR has become increasingly integrated with PDS stockholm and their main work-flow, so I expect they’ll be able to flesh this stuff out as they go!

 

[Spike05]

1. The look is predetermined, that is the building-blocks you use + the materials. The effects can be updater or replaced later.
2. It works like and individual office, that is to say, if you've assigned someone as a construction leader, they can't hold other offices at the same time


Yes
The tiers and effects will be up to you as a player to pick and choose from, any of these player created constructions could have any of the effects so it's not really relevant to show what effects they have as it can be any.

Constructions from the Building category
View attachment 679157View attachment 679158View attachment 679159

Constructions from the Pyramid category
View attachment 679160View attachment 679161View attachment 679162View attachment 679163

Yes, the player can destroy pre-existing wonders, then they are gone forever as they can't be re-produced fully through the design-tool, a new wonder with the same effect can be created however. The AI shouldn't destroy any GWs, but then again, AI works in mysterios ways and are seemingly semi-selfaware at times so who knows. (I'll need to tripple-check this with a coder to be sure actually, but coder seem to be busy coding some new cool feature or something and I want to get these pictures posted, I'll get back to you on this )
Edit: We're all "pretty sure the AI won't destroy any historical wonders". Sounds very reassuring.


Materials add different amount of prestige and prestige is what dictates what tier of effect you can use. As an example, if you build a tower in only stone, you'll be able to choose between tier 1 effects. If you build it purely in gold, the prestige at design time increases and you'll be able to choose from the tier 2 versions of effects as well. Towers can't reach tier 3 at design time, for that you'd have to build a building or pyramid with high-prestige materials.

Dear dev team, a word of advice: when you're talking about Wonders, and want to show them to the public, SHOW THESE!
I know towers will probabily be cheaper, and the kind of wonders most players will see early game, but THESE are what I call WONDERS!

Show these! People will love them and be far more excited!

At least I love them for sure , good work!
Better, Great Work!

 

[AlleyTheToaster]

Can I build a big wooden horse and gift it to Greeks?

 

[Talib123]

The intention is good, but it feels a bit strange. We cant rename founded cities with the reason of being ahistorical but can build some random "wonder". I would have liked to see that we can construct real wonders in game with representation on the map. The harbor of carthage, akropolis of athens, great temples etc. I know some of them are in game. Dont get me wrong its cool that you can customize your native home city, but I think it should stick to some historical formular. Like a german tribe constructing pyramid despite never even knowing of their existenz would make the world feel weird. instead they should be able to construct something along their historical and cultural lines. Like a great sacred grove that becomes a religious centre.
I dont know maybe I am talking nosense.
In the end the more features the better for the game I guess

 

[Hemothep]

The intention is good, but it feels a bit strange. We cant rename founded cities with the reason of being ahistorical but can build some random "wonder". I would have liked to see that we can construct real wonders in game with representation on the map. The harbor of carthage, akropolis of athens, great temples etc. I know some of them are in game. Dont get me wrong its cool that you can customize your native home city, but I think it should stick to some historical formular. Like a german tribe constructing pyramid despite never even knowing of their existenz would make the world feel weird. instead they should be able to construct something along their historical and cultural lines. Like a great sacred grove that becomes a religious centre.
I dont know maybe I am talking nosense.
In the end the more features the better for the game I guess

Pyramids are a real bad example, since they were build by multiple different cultures that had no contact with each other. It's a form that results from the question "what if we piled up some rocks realy high?".
Towers have the same issue. There's some reason why people are fascinated by tall phallic structures...

Buildings on the other hand should be specific for each culture group, since their destinct architectional style were unique to the civilisation building them (except when it comes to the romans, since they copied everyone).

 

[mosadi85]

Dear Paradox, i really feel and believe that you finally have idea, of what this game wants to be. This packs looks really promising.

 

[ashbery76]

Dunno, seems weird for the game and low budget looking.

 

[LunarBahamut]

Considering this is the last DD before release next week (as I assume those will be patch notes as usual) , I have to ask in the hope it will be seen:
Are we getting some new unique heritages next patch?

 

[Imiona]

Dunno, seems weird for the game and low budget looking.

Ok, let me see what you came up with. Post it here so i can look at it please.

 

[Mad_Íkaros]

0 excited for this wonder stuff. a shame that develop team is working on this kind of irrelevant thing

 

[StrifeXIII]

0 excited for this wonder stuff. a shame that develop team is working on this kind of irrelevant thing

Remember this is Thalassic's introduction to working on the game.
For all we know this has given them experience with the project to add other models/animations later like trade ships, trade caravans, city walls, territory(not city) buildings on the map, etc etc.

 

[defekt]

I don't mind this but I would prefer to be able to turn this off if I don't want my game festooned with Lego-wonders. I get it, and it's kinda cool for those that like it, but not everyone does and this really does have a big impact on the game, particularly as they're game-affecting and I don't like being forced to use this function in this way.

It's fine, it really is, but please allow us to 'Disable Wonders' at game start, or like we would disable any other DLC.

 

[CalebNovae]

0 excited for this wonder stuff. a shame that develop team is working on this kind of irrelevant thing

It is one thing that you are not looking forward to this feature. Tastes and expectations are different. This is OK of course.

But calling the blood, sweat and heart put in this 2.0 update by the dev team a shame, is also quite a shame. Have you read any of the previous dev diaries so far? Imperator Rome 2.0 will be nearly a complete other game compared to the state before. They have put so much work in it... to use your words: they have worked on so much relevant things coming to life with 2.0, that this little flavor gimmick with the Wonders is like a cherry on a cake. If you don't like it, you should not care. The cake is fantastic even without the cherry. And the best thing is: this cake ain*t fnished after the 16th of February. It will get even better and better with the follwing updates in the future. Thank you Paradox for not quitting the development of this wonderful game.

And now I want some cake, and no cake at home... I should not have used this metaphor.

 

[Spike05]

I think most are overreacting over the "spam of wonders" by the AI or the player.

given the cost and the time it takes to build, together with the fact that it takes lots of even more time to reach full power, to me is rather impossible to imagine too many nations popping too many wonders, particularly after mid game

 

[Sappho of Lesbos]

Here's a thought: for wonders like libraries, where what's inside is as important as the structure, maybe what's inside should be represented as a treasure of some kind (ie "big book collection" for libraries). That way, after I build the Library of Jerusalem, I could invade Egypt, occupy Alexandria, then order its entire collection brought back to Jerusalem. Or you could seize the idols of a temple and bring them home to display in your own temple, symbolically taking their gods prisoner (which I believe was actually done at times).

 

[LunarBahamut]

It is one thing that you are not looking forward to this feature. Tastes and expectations are different. This is OK of course.

But calling the blood, sweat and heart put in this 2.0 update by the dev team a shame, is also quite a shame. Have you read any of the previous dev diaries so far? Imperator Rome 2.0 will be nearly a complete other game compared to the state before. They have put so much work in it... to use your words: they have worked on so much relevant things coming to life with 2.0, that this little flavor gimmick with the Wonders is like a cherry on a cake. If you don't like it, you should not care. The cake is fantastic even without the cherry. And the best thing is: this cake ain*t fnished after the 16th of February. It will get even better and better with the follwing updates in the future. Thank you Paradox for not quitting the development of this wonderful game.

And now I want some cake, and no cake at home... I should not have used this metaphor.

You are attacking a strawman argument. He's not saying he doesn't want to play with the 2.0 patch, or that he doesn't value the time and work put into that, he's talking specifically about the DLC, and how he doesn't want to pay for the other features if that means he can't disable wonders.

People here always attack points people don't make.

 

[Ketchup & friends]

Dear devs:

In general:
Have these features been added since September? (Or have you just not presented them yet)

Construction time is further affected by assigning a construction leader. Similar to military and naval leaders, there’s a significant dent in efficiency without a leader assigned, the construction speed being decreased by 25% without one. The governing stat for construction leaders is Finesse, which will speed up the construction by 5% per point.

It’s concerning that you’ve added another finesse job but no charisma and zeal jobs. will these 2 become unimportant?

As a part of the Marius update, we’ve also brushed up the good ol’ Ancient Wonders such as Stonehenge, Colossus of Rhodes and Lighthouse of Alexandria. Each of them now have one of the tier 4 effects that you can use for your own constructions, making them both valuable assets to keep within your domain, and attractive targets for conquest. There’s also a number of events connected to the wonders, giving them some story and an additional management aspect.

Will Historical wonders that were built after the start date (e.g. Herod’s temple, Al-Khazneh in Petra, the Colosseum, and Nimrud Dag) get unique models?

The AI shouldn't destroy any GWs, but then again, AI works in mysterios ways and are seemingly semi-selfaware at times so who knows. (I'll need to tripple-check this with a coder to be sure actually, but coder seem to be busy coding some new cool feature or something and I want to get these pictures posted, I'll get back to you on this )

What happens if a tile with a GW becomes decolonized (due to conquest or natural disaster?)

 

[Decius]

I think most are overreacting over the "spam of wonders" by the AI or the player.

given the cost and the time it takes to build, together with the fact that it takes lots of even more time to reach full power, to me is rather impossible to imagine too many nations popping too many wonders, particularly after mid game

If that's the case I'm completely satisfied! It's the only thing I'm concerned, otherwise it's a great feature in my eyes. But yes the screenshots somewhat show, that the costs are very high (which is good). Hopefully the AI understands to use them wisely instead of wasting too much money on them.