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Stellaris Dev Diary #11 - Research & Technology

Hi folks!

It’s Monday and you all know what that means! Today I am going to talk about the technology system in Stellaris. If you have stayed up-to-date with the information flow, you probably know the basics already: there are three types of technology: Physics, Society and Engineering. Each one has its own research track, and each department is headed by a scientist character. You thus normally research three technologies in parallel.

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Now, I want each new game of Stellaris to be a new and different journey. That is why the game does not have a “tech tree” in the classical sense. Instead, each time you start up a new research project, you are presented with three semi-random choices. This is a bit like drawing three cards from a deck of cards, picking one and returning the other two to the deck. However, to continue with this metaphor, the trick is in the shuffling... The deck is very much stacked, so to speak. Especially in the early game, some cards are extremely likely to end up in the top, so that all players get a fair start. What happens in the background is a complex weighting of various factors, like the ethics of the empire, the traits of the scientist character in charge of the department, the techs you already have, etc. I guess you could say the result is something like a fuzzy, hidden tech tree.

Certain technologies are considered rare or very rare, and these are clearly marked so that you know you should probably pick them lest you never see them again... There are also “tech cards” outside the deck (this card metaphor is really useful!), that can only be drawn in special circumstances, like when researching certain Anomalies, investigating debris, etc.

Of course, there are only so many normal technologies to research, so you will eventually have most of them. To keep things interesting even in a very long game though, there are also many procedurally generated “improvement technologies”. For example, techs that improve all types of laser weapons by a small degree. These technologies are a bit like the “Future Technologies” in Civilization except that you can start getting them long before you’ve actually run out of scripted technologies.

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As with any game like this, techs get progressively more expensive, meaning you cannot neglect building research labs and stations lest you fall behind the other empires of the galaxy (however tempting it might be to use your precious real estate to produce more Minerals and Energy Credits…)

Stellaris Dev Diary #12 - Policies and Edicts
 
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What you call Ricardo Hernandez then? Or Janette Le Gall?
They look like Latin Americans (The mestizos of Latin America), or North Africans. Not Europeans. After all, "Ricardo Hernandez" is a Hispanic name, and they look nothing like Spaniards.
This isn't a shot we've seen in-game yet. This is the closest I've seen to European so far, barely so.
These are clearly not European. Again, North Africans or Latin Americans.
 
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Soundtrack for this dev diary:

 
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Spain is in Europe, mate.
Latin Americans referring to the Mestizos of Latin America, y'know. Like what the term refers to.
They're very clearly not Europeans.
 
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The idea that you can make the distinction between a Mestizo and or a Latin American of full Spanish descent or a native Spaniard just by looking at a low resolution CG image of a man, who is clearly just the same guy over and over with slightly adjusted skin-tone, is frankly hilarious.
 
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.... Can we not devolve this thread into a discussion of race please? Pretty please? It never ends well....

Wise words.

Though I would like to take a moment to marvel at the person (*not* finalsong I might add) who managed to "respectfully disagree" with the statement "Spain is in Europe". You can disagree as respectfully or disrespectfully as you like, dude, it *is* in Europe. You can look it up on google maps and everything. No amount of disagreement or down votes is going to move the Iberian peninsular into the middle of the Atlantic ocean.

But anyway, yes. You're right. I should not have been drawn into responding to that and I apologize.
 
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So what Engineering tech would people choose in that screenshot? Offworld Construction looks like the most useful but power armor seems too cool to pass up.

Off world construction looks like the Stellaris equivalent of SMAC's Centauri Ecology, the tech that allowed you to build terraforms and start improving tiles. You would want to grab it as soon as possible because it gives you the ability to start acting on the game world. Plus with the randomized tech if you don't take as soon as you see it the RNG Gods may punish you for your hubris and not give it to you again unlike like a dozen techs later.

If you've ever played SMAC on random tech and sat there turn after turn as it dished out every possible tech *but* Centauri Ecology you know exactly how frustrating that can be :eek:.
 
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So what Engineering tech would people choose in that screenshot? Offworld Construction looks like the most useful but power armor seems too cool to pass up.
Power armour is tempting and strong, especially if you're a militaristic civilization, but Offworld Construction looks like a tech you more or less have to take in order to keep up. That's a pretty big part of the game there, and avoiding it for over a year is little bit of a poor choice.
 
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Wise words.

Though I would like to take a moment to marvel at the person (*not* finalsong I might add) who managed to "respectfully disagree" with the statement "Spain is in Europe". You can disagree as respectfully or disrespectfully as you like, dude, it *is* in Europe. You can look it up on google maps and everything. No amount of disagreement or down votes is going to move the Iberian peninsular into the middle of the Atlantic ocean.

But anyway, yes. You're right. I should not have been drawn into responding to that and I apologize.

There is no objective truth. To paraphrase an ancient Sanskrit saying, Spain is in Europe; Spain is not in Europe; Spain is both in Europe and not in Europe; Spain is neither in Europe nor not in Europe; Spain is in some sense in Europe; Spain is in some sense not in Europe; Spain is in some sense both in Europe and not in Europe; Spain is in some sense neither in Europe nor not in Europe. If you are not yet confused as to Spain's continental location, my old master would advise you to take more psychedelic drugs, though obviously I would not recommend that for health and legal reasons.
 
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Love the system Paradox is taking here. This should add lots of diversity to the game in contrast to Civ 5's Composite Bowmen rush every game. I also really like that they're adding more than just engineering as techs. Making Society a tech group adds the option of enabling peaceful space-empires to share culture with each other and incentivizes not eating all your neighbours. This is doubly effective because there's a hard cap on how much you can research no matter how large your empire gets. Really seems like a nice, natural way to generate advantage as a peaceful nation. A question though, will we be able to analyse the remains of a battle only once? It seems like a pretty snowbally mechanic if that's the case. Really hope that remains of a battle can be analysed multiple times by different people, but the first person should get greater rewards and maybe the choice of destroying the remains for a cost.

How about the ability to put a small number of research cards off to the side so that you can come back to them later? I'd use a card analogy/metaphor/whatever here because I'm pretty sure I could do this with Yu-Gi-Oh! cards when I was a kid but I can't remember what it was called.
You could set spells and traps face down to use later. But anyway, I'd also like to be able to select one tech choice that would be "carried" to the next "draw" (I'm going to pretend the techs are cards). Here's why: If there are rare and powerful techs that are good all around then you'll take those all the time when they come up and it's not really a choice; if you nerf the techs to make it a choice between those rare techs and normal techs then there'll be none of the impact of getting a super strong rare tech. In my opinion Paradox should make it so rare and (very) powerful techs are situational and, and the same time, give players the opportunity to put keep 1 of the current tech options in the next "draw" so they can come back to it if they want. For example, being able to take Powered exoskeletons with you to the next "draw" while picking Offworld construction this time around to use the OP's screenshots as an example. This way you keep a tech you might want (the in-universe rationale for it would be "Tech A has promise but we'll go with B for now") at the cost of only getting 2 new techs the next time around. Putting it into the next draw instead of off the side means that they won't just pick the safe option every time because there'll actually be a downside (only getting 2 techs). It would become a question of "Do I want this tech guaranteed or do I want a higher chance of getting a tech I might want more?" which I feel is better than having to just chose what you want now.

Anyways, I'd like to hear some other people's opinions on this!
 
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It is PURPLE! Epics > all!
5% Research Rate for 25 years of research?
Is there some hidden benefit to this tech that isn't shown?
Surely the indirect benefits to your economy of 20 regular techs could easily allow you to increase your science points by an equivalent amount or more?
 
Glad they decided to do away with the stale tech tree and tech web. As well as making it more interesting through special projects and procedurally generated techs. I always like playing long games, but it never felt right that a civilization would just run out of techs or simply stop researching at some arbitrary point. The research system is looking pretty close to how I envisioned would be best for the sort of game Stellaris is.
 
Well.... I have a black girlfriend. I'd hope if we ever marry that she takes my very Italian last name and if we have kids I'm going to give them a name I like, not one based on the color of their skin. I'd imagine, in 2200AD that racial lines are blurred if not fully erased.


Yes, and war will be gone as well....right? Because humans are soooo good. You do realize that 2200AD is only some 200 years from now? Europeans have been interacting with one another for some 2000 + years, and there are still distinctive ethnic groups in Europe alone....eg...Irish people haven't even melted into the rest of the population.
 
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Yes, that's an interesting point. On the moment (I had to think fast because the devs were there) I essentially thought to the EU4 diplomacy tooltips.

Although, if such a system was implemented, maybe dispatching the modifiers between categories (e.g. "Permanent modifiers", "Temporary modifers", "Current technologies"...) would help having a better understanding of what makes a tech more or less probable to be available again?

Even if it was feasible, I think the game would run into design issues at that point. Because knowing too much about where tech cards come from, can have a destabilizing effect on early game exploration and "unknowns".

Although they can always color code the rarity, such as bronze, silver, and gold, same as in Warframe. Card games also don't use tooltips, they just use other things to signify why a card is valuable or not.

On the other hand, as I said befor a couple posts up, a bit randomness is good for replayability.
You dont get the "best" way to go through the tech tree and most techs IRL were discovered by "accident" or luck... See gunpowder, antibiotica and such.

You can tell that some techs can be picked quite often, others aren't. That way other species are not merely your own race in disguise with some other boni. Now you not only get "real" other races (with the need to decipher their language first), but have to check first, if you attack them quite from the first contact, if they dont happen to luckily get some pretty badass weapon tech from the start just by having luck.

And concerning "...if the system works, why change it?": did it work? Or was it just that no one got the idea to implement another system? All games where you research something have a tech tree where you can view quite from the start which techs you have to research to get e.g. Lasers, of Horseriders or a Radiostation. But just because all others have it, does it make it any better?

I find it ironic that people who are too used to how things were in their time, now want to talk about innovation as a gameplay system. By definition, if those people were in charge of science, progress would become negative or a stasis.
 
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The idea behind the laws of physics are the same for everyone, everywhere, everywhen, so actually having all techs available to everyone is a very sensible idea. Whether a faction chooses to devote time and effort into researching A instead of B is a matter of culture and such, nothing else.

This I think is at least part of the idea behind the fuzzy tech tree: some factions will have a preference for certain things, which will in turn make it more or less likely that option A will appear instead of option B. But (assuming the dice gods are nice) they can still eventually get option B, if I've understood Doomdark's post correctly.

While the laws of physics is the same for everyone, the way they implement them is differently. I did understand Doomdark's post correctly, in the way you said. My post was more about the weirdness in other games where everyone has almost the same technology in the early and middle game, which I think is really terrible. This allows you some matter of choice, and while you still will probably research most technologies at some points, this will be done at different points in time. Another bad thing in other games is that they lack the three types of technology. I really liked how they split technology into three parts. I feel like this wouldn't feel right if they had three tech trees, which would just feel even more wrong than having just one large tech tree. I really dislike both tech trees and tech webs. They both end up being a race for the best technologies most of the time, and the difference between them is that in tech webs, you can skip what you don't want. There is no true sense of "discovery" in discovering such technologies, making them less than ideal for Stellaris.