[paulatreides0]

While all you say this true this was more true of 40k a little while ago it's become less and less of that setting as GW finds new and inventive ways to ruin the good thing that they have, it's become less and less interesting.

...don't know what world you live in, but if anything, 40K has become LESS ridiculous and over the top and much more mature recently, largely due to contributions of people like Aaron Dembski Bowden, McNeil, and Abnett (may the Emperor Bless Them Thrice).

Over the past few years Space Marines have become more than emotion-less supermen, the primarchs were given actual substance, and there is actual lots of historical context to make the crazy stuff we see in universe make a lot more sense.

Unless you are talking about the arch-idiot of 40K, Matt Ward (May the Emperor, peace be upon His name, destroy him a thousand times over), then 40K lore has improved rather consistently to being more grown up.

Everything is so grim and there is no hope of things getting better there is no point in get invested in the "good guys" struggle as you know they'll lose (for reference the "good guys" in 40k are the Immperium of Man, Craftworld Eldar, and the Tau). Plus as I said GW is running the setting into the ground.

The point is NOT to get invested in the good guys. It's to get invested in whoever you want. You can just easily get invested in Chaos as you can in the Imperium of man. Especially since the HH has started publishing. That's a good thing.

Also, it's hard to call the Imperium or the Eldar, people perfectly happy and, in fact, planning on, complete genocide, as the good guys. The Tau are slightly better, but not by all that much.

All that said 40k fans might want to tame their enthusiasm a bit the vibe I'm getting from the game is clearly more Star Trek/Mass Effect type of thing then its 40k. Honestly I'm surprised that 40k has had the presence it has on this sub forum. Then again 40k is a wargameing franchise so maybe I shouldn't be surprised.

It's also probably the biggest modern scifi franchise outside of Star Wars and Star Trek, so its' hardly surprising one of the most popular extent scifi universe around has lots of people talking about a sci-fi game.

 

[Homard]

I am intrigued about "migration". Will this allow forced migrations? Will it allow migration in general, so that restricting it would mean no leaving the home planet or empire?

 

[valergain]

...don't know what world you live in, but if anything, 40K has become LESS ridiculous and over the top and much more mature recently, largely due to contributions of people like Aaron Dembski Bowden, McNeil, and Abnett (may the Emperor Bless Them Thrice).

It's less about the novels the official lore. I don't know maybe it's just End of Times of AoS clouding the way I see the lore changes, but I find that retconning the two unknown legions from unknown to destroyed and having the fall of the Eldar happen right as the great crusade starts(As opposed as causing the Age of Strife) don't sit right with me. I don't know as the years pass 40k looks more and more shallow as a setting. It may just be me "growing up" and my tastes changing.

Over the past few years Space Marines have become more than emotion-less supermen, the primarchs were given actual substance, and there is actual lots of historical context to make the crazy stuff we see in universe make a lot more sense.

The space marines are literally among the most boring parts of the lore to me. Aside from the Primarchs which are interesting.

The point is NOT to get invested in the good guys. It's to get invested in whoever you want. You can just easily get invested in Chaos as you can in the Imperium of man. Especially since the HH has started publishing. That's a good thing.

Yes and that's fine and all, I'm just saying my preferences would be to inject a bit more hope to universe, I think it would do it some good.

Also, it's hard to call the Imperium or the Eldar, people perfectly happy and, in fact, planning on, complete genocide, as the good guys. The Tau are slightly better, but not by all that much.

I put good guys in quotations for a reason. The only reason I call them that is they are the ones that are fighting to defend their way of life, as opposed out of malevolent intent. In any other setting they would the villains.

It's also probably the biggest modern scifi franchise outside of Star Wars and Star Trek, so its' hardly surprising one of the most popular extent scifi universe around has lots of people talking about a sci-fi game.

Yes but then you would expect it to be third behind Star Wars, and Trek but 40k memes dominate. So my point still stands.

 

[Wulfburk]

Uh yeah IDK where these people are getting it from but GW has NOT been ruining W40K. IMO it has been getting better and better with the Horus heresy novel series, and definitelly more mature indeed.

 

[valergain]

Uh yeah IDK where these people are getting it from but GW has NOT been ruining W40K. IMO it has been getting better and better with the Horus heresy novel series, and definitelly more mature indeed.

They ruined Fantasy, and I'm not putting it past them to go and turn their energy to ruin 40k. They see themselves as selling models not a game so I'm not putting it past them to bludgeon the lore to sell models.

 

[Wulfburk]

Fantasy is VERY different . Solely because it was ALWAYS shadowed by W40K in sales and etc. And that is precisely the reason of all that Age of Sigmar thing.


They wont touch W40K. They are clever with it. Opening other series and etc on other time frames such as the Beast Arises series, and the Horus Heresy going on to 30+ novels.

 

[paulatreides0]

It's less about the novels the official lore.

The novels ARE part of the official lore. They have as much canonicity as the codexes.

I don't know maybe it's just End of Times of AoS clouding the way I see the lore changes, but I find that retconning the two unknown legions from unknown to destroyed

It's always been known that the two unknown legions were purged, just never how. The only thing that's really been added recently is that the Wolves did it and that the Ultramarines probably absorbed all the ones who survived.

and having the fall of the Eldar happen right as the great crusade starts(As opposed as causing the Age of Strife)

No, the Fall of the Eldar happened long before the Age of Strife even. This is, again, absolutely nothing new. The Eldar had already been weakened for centuries, if not longer, by the time the Great Crusade began. The new lore changed absolutely nothing in this regard.

I don't know as the years pass 40k looks more and more shallow as a setting. It may just be me "growing up" and my tastes changing.

This is ironic given that 40K is substantially deeper than it's ever been. The primarchs have actual motivation. The SMs aren't just mindless, brainwashed soldier-monks. The Inquisition's fuckery is a lot more understandable. Lorgar and the Word Bearers aren't 2 Dimensional anymore. The Mechanicum is no longer just a bunch of religious zealots who worship technology just because. The Necrons aren't mindless puppets that kill everything. The threat of the 'nids is significantly fleshed out. The threat of the Necrons and their multi-galactic empire is far more fleshed out. Important events like the HH and the War in Heaven that defined a lot of the events that led to why 40K turned out the way it did have been significantly fleshed out. And so on, and so on.

The space marines are literally among the most boring parts of the lore to me. Aside from the Primarchs which are interesting.

...that's kind of supposed to be the point. The Space Marines *are* supposed to be extremely plain because they are extremely spartan and hold up asceticism, and have been ever since the HH - mainly because they don't want to fall into the trappings of pride and self indulgence that led to the HH in the first place (not to mention Slaanesh lies in that direction anyway).

Yes and that's fine and all, I'm just saying my preferences would be to inject a bit more hope to universe, I think it would do it some good.

...the 40K is the brightest and most hope-filled it's ever been. You have more cooperation between races, you have things like some of the sleeping/lost primarchs potentially starting to come back, you have

I put good guys in quotations for a reason. The only reason I call them that is they are the ones that are fighting to defend their way of life, as opposed out of malevolent intent. In any other setting they would the villains.

Chaos too is fighting for reasons outside of malevolent intent. Hell, even Abaddon isn't fighting out of malevolent intent. Nor are the tyrannids. Or even the Necrons. Hell, even the Orkz who know nothing but war don't fight out of malevolent intent. The 'nids and Orkz fight because they have no other choice - it's their nature. Chaos fights for a multitude of reasons (mainly nature (most of Chaos) or to overthrow what they see to be a corrupt and evil empire and emperor (the CSMs, but most especially Abaddon's faction), and the Necrons largely want to take back the worlds that used to be theirs and reforge their old Empire.

 

[valergain]

This is ironic given that 40K is substantially deeper than it's ever been. The primarchs have actual motivation. The SMs aren't just mindless, brainwashed soldier-monks. The Inquisition's fuckery is a lot more understandable. Lorgar and the Word Bearers aren't 2 Dimensional anymore. The Mechanicum is no longer just a bunch of religious zealots who worship technology just because. The Necrons aren't mindless puppets that kill everything. The threat of the 'nids is significantly fleshed out. The threat of the Necrons and their multi-galactic empire is far more fleshed out. Important events like the HH and the War in Heaven that defined a lot of the events that led to why 40K turned out the way it did have been significantly fleshed out. And so on, and so on.

Would like to hear your reasoning on this and continue this discussion in PM's. We derailed this thread enough already.

So the rest of the you what exactly do you think the purge policy is?

 

[ponasozis]

It's less about the novels the official lore. I don't know maybe it's just End of Times of AoS clouding the way I see the lore changes, but I find that retconning the two unknown legions from unknown to destroyed and having the fall of the Eldar happen right as the great crusade starts(As opposed as causing the Age of Strife) don't sit right with me. I don't know as the years pass 40k looks more and more shallow as a setting. It may just be me "growing up" and my tastes changing.




The space marines are literally among the most boring parts of the lore to me. Aside from the Primarchs which are interesting.




Yes and that's fine and all, I'm just saying my preferences would be to inject a bit more hope to universe, I think it would do it some good.




I put good guys in quotations for a reason. The only reason I call them that is they are the ones that are fighting to defend their way of life, as opposed out of malevolent intent. In any other setting they would the villains.



Yes but then you would expect it to be third behind Star Wars, and Trek but 40k memes dominate. So my point still stands.

dude what the heck are you talking about ?
the aos and end of times have nothing to do with wh40k


in fact wh40k is now getting much better mostly because the dreadful heretic that matt ward was is finally out from the company but not before he ruined necrons trough ;/ rest in pieces space terminators
go to hell space egyptians




Seriously folks if you don t know almost anything about wh40k don t talk nonsense about it or in fact about any other thing you don t know anything about
i thought first researching and then talking about stuff was supposed to be common sense

 

[Kuschelflummi]

I like the new approach to the Necrons, even if they are resembling the Tomb Kings now. But the old Necrons were just... boring. Not really any useful lore or, god beware, some Goal.
Of course, WH40k is not perfect, but the lore makes it very interesting. Some changes never come good other got easier to the players.

Let's see how a WH40K mod will be played out. I just don't really like the idea of a fixed galaxy. Every time the same sounds boring.

 

[petertel123]

Will pops be diverse in their preferences? In vicky 2 everyone wanted a social welfare democracy and totalitarian states werent really viable at all

 

[Phi]

Finally. A grand-strategy game, where I can set a policy on anal probes.

 

[Phi]

Here a picture of the hard bombing campaign against the Seven Colonies. That's how it's done.

 

[TheGrinningMan]

Finally. A grand-strategy game, where I can set a policy on anal probes.

What I really want is to stick poor blighters from pre-spaceflight civs in brain cylinders and drag them around the galaxy to experience awe and wonder. Specifically, the sort of awe and wonder that leaves them insane, gibbering wrecks when I stick their think-meats back in their native bodies and drop them ignominiously back on their home planets.

EDIT: Joking aside, brain cylinders are optional, but I suspect this might be what "xeno enlightenment", or at least one possible version of it, amount to in part or full.

 

[aitaituo]

What I really want is to stick poor blighters from pre-spaceflight civs in brain cylinders and drag them around the galaxy to experience awe and wonder. Specifically, the sort of awe and wonder that leaves them insane, gibbering wrecks when I stick their think-meats back in their native bodies and drop them ignominiously back on their home planets.

EDIT: Joking aside, brain cylinders are optional, but I suspect this might be what "xeno enlightenment", or at least one possible version of it, amount to in part or full.

I figured xeno enlightenment means uplift.

 

[CptWilly]

I hope that there is some mechanism through which democratic government types could have certain policies set by their people via election rather than all governments essentially setting policies in the same way as an autocratic regime. I dare say that in a pure direct democracy, I should have no direct power to implement policies without the voters at least ratifying the action via referendum. This should also make rebels somewhat less likely to spawn and attempt to force policy reforms, as they'd be more likely instead to take their grievance to the ballot box next election.

 

[TheGrinningMan]

I figured xeno enlightenment means uplift.

On reflection, that does seem likely, though I'm sure there will be a few variations of that policy where "enlightenment" is a nasty euphemism for "brainwash" or "mold into a servitor race".

 

[Phi]

What I really want is to stick poor blighters from pre-spaceflight civs in brain cylinders and drag them around the galaxy to experience awe and wonder. Specifically, the sort of awe and wonder that leaves them insane, gibbering wrecks when I stick their think-meats back in their native bodies and drop them ignominiously back on their home planets.

Good stuff. I once met a woman in a coffee place in my home town, who told me that nobles are called blue-blooded, because they actually have blue blood. Why is that so? Because they are aliens, of course. I want to do this as well. My alien race will be able to disguise themselves as humans and rule pre-FTL societies, but did not yet research the "changable blood color"-tech. Stupid random tech system.

 

[Held der Arbeit]

Good stuff. I once met a woman in a coffee place in my home town, who told me that nobles are called blue-blooded, because they actually have blue blood. Why is that so? Because they are aliens, of course. I want to do this as well. My alien race will be able to disguise themselves as humans and rule pre-FTL societies, but did not yet research the "changable blood color"-tech. Stupid random tech system.

Thats one way to look at it i guess.

If anyones wondering where the term really comes from; when the visigoths conquered spain, the natives noticed the clearly visible veins on their arms, in which the blood appeared blue. (This is true for most people with a pale complexion. Much harder to see in southern, tanned or african skin tones). It thus became associated with rulership and eventually turned into a beauty ideal for all of europes nobility during absolutist times, because pale skin also distinguished oneself from the peasants, who usually had rough skin and a tan from outdoor work.

 

[beckermt]

Would like to hear your reasoning on this and continue this discussion in PM's. We derailed this thread enough already.

So the rest of the you what exactly do you think the purge policy is?

Aww I was enjoying your discussion.