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Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today, we're going to start talking about the Planetary Rework coming in the 2.2 'Le Guin' update - the complete redesign of the planetary management system and replacement of planetary tiles. This is going to be a really big topic, so we're spreading it out across four dev diaries, with today's dev diary being about Deposits, Buildings and Districts. Please bear in mind that everything shown is in an early stage of development, and there will be rough-looking interfaces, placeholder art, non final numbers and all those things that people assume are final and complain about anyway no matter how many of these disclaimers I write. :p

Planetary Rework
Before I start going into details on the actual rework, I just wanted to briefly talk about the reasons and goals that are behind this massive rework, and why we're removing tiles and building a new system instead of iterating on the existing systems. For me, getting away from the constraints of tiles has been my single most desired long-term goal for the game. It's not that I think the tile system is inherently a bad system - it works well to visualize your pops and buildings and for the early game it works well enough in giving the player some interesting economic management decisions. However, the tile system is also very constrictive, in a way I feel is detrimental to the very core concepts of Stellaris. The hard limitation of one pop and one building per tile, as well as the hard limitation of 25 tiles/pops/buildings to a planet, it severely limits the kind of societies and planets that we can present in the game.

Do we want to make city-planets, with enormous numbers of pops concentrated onto a single world? Not possible. Do we want to have a fully automated post-scarcity empire where robots do all the actual work? Can't be done without losing out on valuable building space. Sure, we could fundamentally alter the tile system in a such a way to allow these, by for example making it so each tile could support several sub-tiles with additional pops and buildings, but by doing this we will inevitably lose the easy visual presentation that makes the system attractive to begin with, and even then we would continue to be held back by the limit of one pop per building. In other words, we'd end up with something that superficially might resemble the old tile system but offers none of its main advantages and continues to be held back by most of its drawbacks.

When designing the new planetary management system we set out a number of design goals:
- The new system should be able to simulate a wide variety of different societies, to build on the roleplaying and diversity in play-throughs that is such a fundamental part of the Stellaris experience
- The new system needed to offer more interesting choices about how to develop your planets, while simultaneously reducing the amount of uninteresting micromanagement such as mass-upgrading buildings
- The new system should make your planets feel like places where Pops actually live their lives, as opposed to just being resource gathering hubs
- The new system had to be extremely moddable, to make it easier both for us and modders to create new types of empires and playstyles

We believe that this new system that we have created will not only vastly improve many of the features in the game that we couldn't get working properly with the tile system, but together with the resource rework discussed in the last dev diary will also make it possible for us to create truly weird and alien societies that play entirely differently from anything the game currently has to offer, or would ever have to offer if we had remained constrained by the tile system.

Deposits
Under the old tile system, deposits were simply clumps of resources placed on a tile, which would be gathered by a pop and determined what kind of buildings were most efficient to place there. Under the new system, deposits are more akin to planetary terrain and features. Every habitable planet will have a (semi-randomized) number of deposits, with larger planets usually having more deposits. Deposits represent areas on the planet that can be economically exploited, and most commonly increase the number of a particular District (more on this below) that can be build on the planet. For example, a Fertile Lands deposit represents various regions of fertile farmland, and increases the number of Agriculture Districts that can be built on the planet, and thus its potential Food output.
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(Note: All deposit pictures shown here are placeholders, there will be new art for them that isn't done yet)

Not all Deposits affect Districts however - some (such as Crystalline Caverns or Betharian Fields) are rare deposits that allow for the construction of special Buildings (more on this below) on the planet, while others yet may simply provide a passive benefit to the planet, such as a spectacularly beautiful wilderness area that increases happiness for Pops living on the planet. Deposits can have Deposit Blockers that work in a similar way to the Tile Blockers of old, cancelling out the benefits of the Deposit until the Blocker is removed through the expenditure of time and resources. A planet can have multiples of the same Deposit, and there is no hard limit to the number of Deposits that a planet can hold (though there is a cap to how many will be generated under normal circumstances). The types of Deposits that can show up on a planet is affected by the planet class, so where an Ocean World might get its Agriculture from Kelp Forests, an Arctic World would have Fungal Caverns instead.
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(Note: All deposit pictures shown here are placeholders, there will be new art for them that isn't done yet)

Districts
Districts are at at the core of how planets are developed in the Le Guin update. Districts represent large areas of development on the planet dedicated towards housing or resource gathering. For most empires, there are four basic types of Districts: City Districts, Mining Districts, Generator Districts and Agriculture Districts. There are exceptions to this (such as Hive Minds having Hive Districts) but more on this in a later DD. The total number of districts you can build on a planet is equal to its size, so a size 16 planet can support 16 districts in any combination of the types available to you. Additionally, the resource-producing districts (Mining, Generator and Agriculture) are further constrained by the Deposits on the planet, so a planet might only be able to support a maximum of 8 Mining Districts due to there simply not being any further opportunities for mining on the planet. City Districts are never limited by the deposits on the planet, so you can choose to forego a planet's natural resources and blanket it entirely in urban development if you so choose.

The effects of each District is as follows:
  • City District: Provides a large amount of Housing for Pops, Infrastructure for Buildings and Clerk Jobs that produce Trade Value and Luxury Goods
  • Mining District: Provides a small amount of Housing/Infrastructure and Mining Jobs that produce Minerals
  • Agriculture District: Provides a small amount of Housing/Infrastructure and Farming Jobs that produce Food
  • Generator District: Provides a small amount of Housing/Infrastructure and Technician Jobs that produce Energy Credits
There will be more details on most of the concepts mentioned above coming in the other dev diaries. For now, suffice to say that the way you develop your planets with Districts will shape that planet's role in your empire - a heavily urbanized planet will be densely populated, supporting numerous Buildings and specialist Pop Jobs such as Researchers and providing Trade Value for your empire's trade routes (more on this in a future DD), but at the expense of not being able to produce much of the raw resources that are needed to fuel your empire's growth and manufacturing capacity.

A planet's Deposits and Planetary Modifiers may influence this decision - a large planet with High Quality Minerals and numerous Mining Deposits will certainly make for a lucrative mining world, but what if it also sits in a perfect spot to make a heavily urbanized trade hub? No longer are choices regarding planets simply limited to 'Where do I place the capital for the best adjacency bonuses?' and 'Should I follow the tile resource or not?' but will be fundamental choices that create diverse and distinct planets that each have their own role to fill in your empire.
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Buildings
In the Le Guin update, Buildings are specialized Facilities that provide a variety of Jobs and Resources that are not suitable to large-scale resource gathering. For example, instead of having your scientists working in a Physics Lab on a Physics Deposit (whatever that is supposed to be...) you now instead construct a Research Labs building (representing not a single laboratory but rather an allocation of resources towards the sciences across the planet) which provides a number of Pop Researcher Jobs that conduct research for your empire. Buildings are limited by the planet's Infrastructure, with one building 'slot' being unlocked for each 10 Infrastructure on the planet. Some Buildings are also limited in the number you can build on a planet, while others can be built in multiples (for example, a planet can only support a single Autotchton Monument, while you can have as many Alloy Foundries as the slots allow). Buildings can still be upgraded to more advanced versions, but generally there will be far fewer upgrades to do and those upgrades will often require an investment of rare and expensive resources, so it's more of an active choice than something you simply have to click your way through after unlocking a tech.
2018_08_16_5.png


Infrastructure comes primarily from constructing Districts, with City Districts giving much more Infrastructure than resource gathering districts do (6 as opposed to 2 in the current internal build, though non final numbers and all that). In addition to unlocking additional Building slots, a higher Infrastructure level also makes some Buildings more efficient, as the number of jobs they provide is fully or partially determined by the planet's Infrastructure level. For example, in the current internal build, Research Labs and Alloy Foundries both have the number of jobs they provide determined by the infrastructure level, meaning that concentrating your research and manufacturing to your heavily urbanized planets is generally more efficient than trying to turn your agri-worlds into science hubs. In addition to Buildings that provide resource-producing Jobs, there is also a wide variety of buildings that provide for the material and social needs of your Pops, such as Luxury Housing for your upper class Pops, Entertainment Buildings to make your populace happy and Law Enforcement to quell unrest and crime. Densely populated planets tend to require more such buildings, as the need for Housing and Amenities scales upwards with Pops and Infrastructure.
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Whew, that was a lot of words. Still, we're only just getting started on the Planetary Rework and next week we'll continue talking about it, on the topic of Stratas, Pop Jobs, Housing and Migration.
 
@Wiz: Will these economic changes lead to the mineral resources being depleted over time? Needing specialized mining planets to adapt in the mid or endgame when they are mined out. Will then upgrading and building multiple mining facilities as it increases productivity decrease the planetary mineral deposits?

What about other space bodies, will we be able to disassemble astroids and entire worlds in order to fund our ringworlds, Dyson sphere and flood our entire homesystem with orbital and other space habitats?
 
In regards to the apparent limit of 4 district types, hopefully anything that might warrant a "unique district" can instead be created as a "deposit," i.e. imperial park, wildlife sanctuary, royal hunting grounds, etc., so that things that are not buildings, and don't fit within the x4 district paradigm, can still be added to a planet---by modders, if not by the vanilla game itself.

To me all of those sound like building. From teaser's we've seen a palace building frex.
The Royal hunting grounds is not consuming 1/16th of the throneworld's economic potential, it's a side thing the aristocrats are using.
 
To me all of those sound like building. From teaser's we've seen a palace building frex.
The Royal hunting grounds is not consuming 1/16th of the throneworld's economic potential, it's a side thing the aristocrats are using.
Palaces and monuments are not just buildings. It's a whole institution and a system spawning a certain amount of jobs.
Same for laboratories, holo-theaters and alloy foundries and civilian manufacturies, them representing a percentage of specialists of specific types respectively.

However, i do think that some jobs of more social kind - entertainers and police for example need to be available as a percentage of population by default. And their Facilities would allow to create more jobs of those kinds.

P.S. Hmm, on a second thought, i'm running ahead of the train. jobs will surely be detailed in one of the future DDs, so best to wait
 
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Have you messed with how many hyperlanes are made on creation? I have found that 1.5 is good for me. Makes a lot of connections but still have spate constellations.

Well if there are too many hyperlane then indirectly you need more starbase to secure entrances. Or you could keep it at 1 density and deal with the consequence. No matter something has to give.

Which is why I missed 1.9.1. Sure doomstack was a serious problem but stuff like what I posted just make it a necessary to stack your doomstack that much earlier to break through somewhere. So in essentially 2.0 changed nothing at least for me.
 
Well if there are too many hyperlane then indirectly you need more starbase to secure entrances. Or you could keep it at 1 density and deal with the consequence. No matter something has to give.

Which is why I missed 1.9.1. Sure doomstack was a serious problem but stuff like what I posted just make it a necessary to stack your doomstack that much earlier to break through somewhere. So in essentially 2.0 changed nothing at least for me.

I will agree, the whole 2.0 was supposed to break up fleets, and eliminate doomstacks.. but it just made them worse.. Splitting up fleets into fleet limits but not limiting them flying together isn't removing doomstacks... Let alone now forcing you to have to compile your fleets together to take down constant fortresses at chokepoints.. Just makes the situation as bad as before.
 
I will agree, the whole 2.0 was supposed to break up fleets, and eliminate doomstacks.. but it just made them worse.. Splitting up fleets into fleet limits but not limiting them flying together isn't removing doomstacks... Let alone now forcing you to have to compile your fleets together to take down constant fortresses at chokepoints.. Just makes the situation as bad as before.
The goal was never to eliminate doomstacks entirely, it was to make it so it wouldn't be the only optimal strategy because having just one fleet would never be a problem
 
Absolutely loving the look of this. Also really l9ving the emphasis on allowing for role play. 90% of the fun for me is the story each game brings, but current system means empires are all a bit same.

Props to you and the team for not being scared to make such huge changes.
 
I don’t post often but this is something I feel very strongly about. First I very much think that ideas and thinking behind the new mechanics are excellent additions to the game. There’s a lot of good ahead and I’m even gradually starting to look a little forward to the next update. But I must also admit that fundamentally mine has been a visceral negative emotional response to the elimination of tiles. I really don’t know if I’ll ever be fully reconciled with it. I’ve also tried to articulate my issue with the planetary rework in a logical way and nail down why I react this way in the past but it got buried in a previous tread. Here is the best I can do:

I would please ask the developers to consider how to communicate the intimate link between pops and production and between the planetary environment, pop growth potential and available resources graphically. In the current tile approche this is, in my opinion, done very well. Others will disagree and I have no problem with that. This is my experience of the game and it is not universal. That being said with the current tile system it is relatively easy for me to build a story in my head of a planet’s progress and development as it gradually populates. Clearing tile blockers is opening new land for settlement, building mines, labs and power plants is establishing infrastructure. Pop placement and building order spark tails of daring do, gold (mineral) and land rushes and other adventures. I’m building a new world for my people to inhabit, and I can see them interacting with the planet’s environment and it’s infrastructure. The game’s graphical representation supports an evolving story from colonization to full settlement.

For me this is absent in what I’ve seen so far of the new system. In one tab we are lining pops up in a row and sorting them by job while separately, in another tab, lining up columns of buildings in blocks. Further the planetary environment appears to be represented by a completely separate box. How do these elements relate? What is the link between them? Logically I know the link is present but I can’t see it so emotionally it doesn’t happen. The trinity of pops/ production/ environment has become completely uncoupled and planets stop being unified environments on which beings live.

In my opinion in the new system there’s no sense of growth or link between pops and the planetary environment and infrastructure. The story of planetary settlement and development is gone because the graphics no longer support the story of a planet with beings living in and interacting with their environment. Everything is separate. For all that I appreciate the new interesting things we will be able to do after the rework there’s a part of my the just wants to say: “Please sir, can I have my planets back? I don’t want more.”

I also recognize that other people’s experience of tiles won’t be the same. What supports my engagement with the game may be immersion breaking for others and you can’t please everyone. Where I see stories others see micro. Given how this change has been received, I have come to accept that I am in the minority. Thank you very much for any consideration of my feedback and for a fantastic game I’ve spent far far to much time playing!
 
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You're right about TW, for some reason i didn't think about one of my FAVORITE FRANCHISES. Lol

But as for Age of empires 1-2, I never played them so I couldn't comment with certainty.



No, I'm pretty sure civ 1-3 had trade routes. You had those caravans you'd send to a city to establish a trade route which has been a reoccurring Civ feature since the first game. Though barebones, those qualify as trade routes since they physically establish a route. Galcivs was almost identical except with freighters instead of caravans.
I never mentioned Civ 1-3. I only said 4.
 
I just hope that TradeValue/Luxury goods will live up to be the 'fourth resource' this diary seems to make it, otherwise there will be little point in housing districts.
(it does make little sense for swarm)
 
This was my first reaction too, altough the proposed rework does look promising, a certain visual and also, how you elegantly put it, emotional aspect of the game gets abstracted in this new rework.

My proposal would be to use the in-game engine to show and visualize the colonization and development of a planet. Think of Supreme Commander in this aspect, you zoom in unto a planet and cities and settlements are revealed and sprawl the globe. Pops work their districts, and trade vessels move about.

Due to performance concerns these don't have to be fully 3d representations, but any 2d or simple animated visuals may do the trick to connect the gamer with their world.

(The very flat planetary background image that used to update when a building was created does not suffice on itself, and sometimes even broke immersion, since not all species evolve like Humans.)

I must also admit that fundamentally mine has been a visceral negative emotional response to the elimination of tiles.
 
The game’s graphical representation supports an evolving story from colonization to full settlement.
Like you, I'm the type of guy who likes seeing his colonies grow, rages at certain events wrecking tiles or pops, and go back to my planets as I get notifications of empty build queue, actually even in sectors, and I really enjoy the process overall. I agree with you that how you experience and feel the game is as important as what the game as to offer. Likewise, while I'll certainly enjoy more roleplay in colonization, I still feel that it must keep the balance with the strategical aspect of the game. This game is both a roleplay and strategical game for me.

I think that the old tiles view of the planet is partly compatible with the new system. While I'm not sure if we would still have a one pop for one district building relation anymore, the planet size is still limiting the number of districts you can build and in that sense the planet boundary is still finite and can be represented by tiles. In my mind, districts are pretty much tiles. Should there also still be one building per district, like I think it is, I don't see a reason why you could not keep a grid representation of the planet. It would be limited to the existing 25 tiles limit. Over this size, a scaling or scrolling would likely be necessary. However there would still be a few limitations. First, the infrastructure would not appear as it appears out of the grid so to speak. There could be a list view with scroll bar representing these though. Second, you would not be able to move pops arround just see them growing and moving according to AI decisions, pretty much like how sectors do things currently. This opens for an interesting enhancement: have the background of the tile reflects the district it is representing along with the building constructed there and the pop responsible for the job provided by the building. Unused 'tiles', i.e. disctricts yet to be constructed up to the planet's size, could appear like barren land or blockers. The tiles representation would then reflect the districts on your planet rather than its biome. This could be called planetary view for example.
 
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Guess I'm not clear enough. Currently: 16 tiles planet. OK I'm gonna add 16 mines because that is what I want (yeah I know it's dumb but don't care too much please). Future: 16 tiles ocean planet? Ah well sorry but you have only 5 industrial districts available. I'm not inventing, that's what the screenshots suggest. I'm not against the idea but that's a major change to be aware of in term of gameplay and specie selection.

Now what if you place that particular ocean planet in the middle of an industrial sector? It will behave quite differently than it would in the current game and this is a significant change.

This could be easily handled by simply making the choice of priority a reorderable list: for example, build all mineral-producing districts and buildings you can, then energy, then research.
 
Well if there are too many hyperlane then indirectly you need more starbase to secure entrances. Or you could keep it at 1 density and deal with the consequence. No matter something has to give.

Which is why I missed 1.9.1. Sure doomstack was a serious problem but stuff like what I posted just make it a necessary to stack your doomstack that much earlier to break through somewhere. So in essentially 2.0 changed nothing at least for me.
What? You complain about not being able to secure all entrances on high density (which would be the point of high density) forcing you to go with low density so that you can, but then you take issue with other empires being able to secure their chokes as well?

I will agree, the whole 2.0 was supposed to break up fleets, and eliminate doomstacks.. but it just made them worse.. Splitting up fleets into fleet limits but not limiting them flying together isn't removing doomstacks... Let alone now forcing you to have to compile your fleets together to take down constant fortresses at chokepoints.. Just makes the situation as bad as before.
Whenever I read complaints about the fleet movement changes of 2.0 I feel like I've been playing a completely different game.

I don’t post often but this is something I feel very strongly about. First I very much think that ideas and thinking behind the new mechanics are excellent additions to the game. There’s a lot of good ahead and I’m even gradually starting to look a little forward to the next update. But I must also admit that fundamentally mine has been a visceral negative emotional response to the elimination of tiles. I really don’t know if I’ll ever be fully reconciled with it. I’ve also tried to articulate my issue with the planetary rework in a logical way and nail down why I react this way in the past but it got buried in a previous tread. Here is the best I can do:

I would please ask the developers to consider how to communicate the intimate link between pops and production and between the planetary environment, pop growth potential and available resources graphically. In the current tile approche this is, in my opinion, done very well. Others will disagree and I have no problem with that. This is my experience of the game and it is not universal. That being said with the current tile system it is relatively easy for me to build a story in my head of a planet’s progress and development as it gradually populates.
While I have no idea how one would develop an emotional bond with the tile system, the new system appears to be way better in communicating a planet's progress and development.

Clearing tile blockers is opening new land for settlement, building mines, labs and power plants is establishing infrastructure. Pop placement and building order spark tails of daring do, gold (mineral) and land rushes and other adventures. I’m building a new world for my people to inhabit, and I can see them interacting with the planet’s environment and it’s infrastructure. The game’s graphical representation supports an evolving story from colonization to full settlement.

For me this is absent in what I’ve seen so far of the new system.
It's wierd that you have the imagination to derive an "evolving story from colonization to full settlement" from the tile system but fail to see that this is all still present in the new system, just more sensible with districts and facilities instead of, well, tiles.

In one tab we are lining pops up in a row and sorting them by job while separately, in another tab, lining up columns of buildings in blocks.
And in the current system you put buildings into tiles (thus creating jobs) and then sort pops into those jobs. In the new system, just from what's been shown so far, you "zone" parts of the planet for different uses based on districts and as the infrastructure on the planet develops you can commission specialised facilities, all creating jobs that pops get sorted into. And it is more sensible and complex then "miner goes onto tile with mine"; you have to worry about housing, clerks, rulers, a bunch of different resources, etc. The potential for emergent storytelling is higher in the new system.

Further the planetary environment appears to be represented by a completely separate box. How do these elements relate? What is the link between them? Logically I know the link is present but I can’t see it so emotionally it doesn’t happen. The trinity of pops/ production/ environment has become completely uncoupled and planets stop being unified environments on which beings live.
Why? How? Just because pop portraits are no longer rendered in front of the building they supposedly work in? They cannot do that in the new system because districts and facilities produce a multitude of jobs. And it's all there in the (non-final) UI so far presented to us. Why is your imagination failing you now? Maybe you need to actually play the new system to "feel" it?

In my opinion in the new system there’s no sense of growth or link between pops and the planetary environment and infrastructure. The story of planetary settlement and development is gone because the graphics no longer support the story of a planet with beings living in and interacting with their environment. Everything is separate. For all that I appreciate the new interesting things we will be able to do after the rework there’s a part of my the just wants to say: “Please sir, can I have my planets back? I don’t want more.”

I also recognize that other people’s experience of tiles won’t be the same. What supports my engagement with the game may be immersion breaking for others and you can’t please everyone. Where I see stories others see micro. Given how this change has been received, I have come to accept that I am in the minority. Thank you very much for any consideration of my feedback and for a fantastic game I’ve spent far far to much time playing!
I honestly don't get how you see all of that in the tile system but not in the rework.
 
This could be easily handled by simply making the choice of priority a reorderable list: for example, build all mineral-producing districts and buildings you can, then energy, then research.
IMO this is a bad idea. The reason is districts aren't actually independent. There is a strong relation between them: housing and food for pops, energy to sustain the buildings and several pops (robots and such), minerals to be able to build and to sustain pops. In case you choose a prioritary queue, while not allowing two items in the queue to have the same priority and sharing equaly the building then, this will likely mean that you're going to starve for a resource that was needed to sustain your main district. I don't think it is a good idea and a prioritary queue with this depth of control is harder to represent and handle. Btw that's exactly the reason why I ask how sectors will handle this matter as this is probably the most difficult and impactful aspect there will be on the game.
 
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