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Stellaris Dev Diary #124 - Planetary Rework (part 4 of 4)

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today we're going to continue on the topic that we started on in Dev Diary #121: The Planetary Rework coming in the 2.2 'Le Guin' update. As this is a massive topic that affects many areas of the game, we've split it into four parts. Today's part is the last one, in which we'll be talking about how some special empires and planets such as Hive Minds, Machine Empires and Habitats will work under the new planetary rework system.

Gestalt Consciousnesses
One of the aims of the Planetary Rework was that we wanted to be able to present the different kinds of societies in Stellaris as actually being different on the planet. Under the old system, the planet of a Gestalt Consciousness feels very much like the planet of any other empire, save for a few minor differences such as the fact that the pops don't have happiness. Under Le Guin, this will change considerably, with Hive Minds and Machine Empires getting their own districts, buildings, strata, jobs and planetary mechanics. Hive Minds and Machine Empires share some mechanical differences with normal empires - they do not produce Trade Value and have no internal trade routes (more on this in a later DD), their pops lack Happiness, and instead of Crime they have Deviancy, representing Drones that malfunction or go rogue in some manner. Instead of the normal Strata, pops are generally divided into Simple Drones and Complex Drones, with the previous producing amenities and raw resources and the latter producing research, unity and finished goods. Amenities for Gestalts represents the necessary maintenance capacity required for planet to be functional, and impacts Stability directly instead of affecting Pop Happiness. Stability is still a factor for Gestalts, representing how smoothly the planet is functioning as a part of the collective. A low-stability Gestalt planet will not experience revolts if there are only drones present on it, but it will be impaired in other ways, such as resource production penalties. Gestalts also not produce or require luxury goods, with the sole exception of Rogue Servitors that need it for their bio-trophies.
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Hive Minds
In Le Guin, the planets of Hive Minds are focused around rapid growth. Instead of City districts, Hive Minds have Hive districts that provide a very large amount of housing, and each of their raw resource districts provides three jobs where a normal empire only gets two. Hive Minds use the normal biological Pop Growth mechanic, and can also make use of migration mechanics internally - drones will emigrate from overcrowded worlds and immigrate to worlds with free housing. Hive Minds also have a special building, the Spawning Pool, that provides Spawning Drone jobs which use a large amount of food to increase the rate of pop growth on the planet. Furthermore, Hive Minds have their own set of capital buildings that lack the 'colony shelter' level - a newly colonized Hive Mind planet has a fully functional capital present from day one. All of these mechanics make Hive Minds ideal for a 'wide' playstyle, expanding rapidly and claiming huge swathes of space for the Hive.
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Machine Empires
Machine Empires share some similarities with Hive Minds, but rather than being focused on rapid growth, their primary focus is efficient use of resources. Like the Hive Minds, they have their own version of housing district, the Nexus District, and their resource extraction districts also provide three jobs where normal empires get two, but in addition to this they also have substantial bonuses to finished goods production, with jobs such as the Fabricator being a more efficient and productive variant of the regular alloy-producing Metallurgist. However, this comes at the expense of being unable to naturally produce new pops, having to rely on costly Replicator jobs to construct new drones. Machine Empires are ideal for an empire that wants to be self-sustaining, and truly shine when they have access to numerous kinds of natural resources.
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Habitats
Finally, another mechanic from a previous expansion that is changing considerably in Le Guin is Habitats. Habitats are still acquired and constructed in the same way as before, but rather than being size 12 planets with a handful of unique buildings, Habitats are now a mere size 6 (8 with Master Builders), but have their own entirely unique set of Districts. Rather than building City, Mining, Farming or Generator districts, Habitats have the following districts available:
  • Habitation District: Provides housing
  • Research District: Provides researcher jobs
  • Trade District: Provides trade value jobs (Non-Gestalt only)
  • Leisure District: Provides unity and amenities jobs (Non-Gestalt only)
  • Reactor District: Provides energy-producing jobs (Gestalt only)

No matter the type, each District built on a Habitat provides a fixed amount of infrastructure (currently 5, or 1 building per 2 districts). Habitats can support most regular planetary buildings, and so can be further specialized towards for example trade, goods production or research, but lack virtually all ability to produce raw resources. Since research and unity penalties scale towards an empire's number of districts rather than planets in the Le Guin update, they are also highly efficient for tall empires, as Habitat districts provide a larger amount of housing, infrastructure and jobs compared to regular planet districts.

(NOTE: This interface is extremely WIP, the finished version will have non-placeholder art and better district number display, among other things)
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That's all for today! Next week we're finally moving on to the rest of the Le Guin update, starting with the Galactic Market. We may be done talking about the planetary rework (for now), but there's much more to the update we've yet to even begin showing you!
 
I was hoping Gestalt empires would become more interesting, but it still seems like it's just "like regular empires, except we took away a bunch of things you need to worry about"; so it's just less of the same, with nothing extra added.
 
Gestalt Consciousnesses
and instead of Crime they have Deviancy, representing Drones that malfunction or go rogue in some manner
Ok - drones with a malfunction in regards to machine empires and rogue drones in regards to hive-minds ...
Amenities for Gestalts represents the necessary maintenance capacity required for planet to be functional
OK - maintenance in regards to machine-empires, but in regards to hive-minds ? - I would rather expect something like "Selection", which is produced by "Termination Drones" (POP-Job) aka drones, which seek and simply terminate rogue drones ...

Habitation District: Provides housing
OK ...

Reactor District: Provides energy-producing jobs (Gestalt only)
I don't know, but I have a problem with energy-districts on habitats (and solar rings aka ring-worlds, too) since I've always thougt, that you extract the energy from its colony, which makes sense in regards to natural celestial bodies like planets or moons, but in regards to artificial ones like habitats / ring-worlds ? ...

(The same thoughts are even more problematic in regards to (potential) mining-districts (to extract minerals) on habitats / ring-worlds) ...

I think, that I could live with a "trick", that habitats / ring-worlds are able to build something like "Solar-Collector-Districts", which simply collect energy from their stars ...

You could also think about the possibility to allow food-districts on habitats / ring-worlds since, despite being somewhat extractive ones, such a food-district is (more or less) a closed system ...
This allows food-districts for just hive-minds as well as energy-ones for just machine-empires or you could even allow these 2 districts in general for all the empires since hive-minds / machine-empires will naturally more benefit from food-/ energy-districts (on habitats / ring-worlds) ...

Research District: Provides researcher jobs
Trade District: Provides trade value jobs (Non-Gestalt only)
Leisure District: Provides unity and amenities jobs (Non-Gestalt only)
I don't know since this messes up the distinction between districts and buildings.
 
Starting to sound as good as the FTL changes.

Respect to Wiz for seeing this transition through and making a good game even better.
 
This is looking absolutely fantastic. THIS is why I always support Paradox, because you guys are always looking to improve on your product. I cannot wait to see what else is in store for Stellaris.

Yep. It has its downsides though: I didn't play EU4 for several years and then tried to get back into it, had to relearn so many things and I had to get like five DLCs at once.
 
No matter the type, each District built on a Habitat provides a fixed amount of infrastructure (currently 5, or 1 building per 2 districts). Habitats can support most regular planetary buildings, and so can be further specialized towards for example trade, goods production or research, but lack virtually all ability to produce raw resources. Since research and unity penalties scale towards an empire's number of districts rather than planets in the Le Guin update, they are also highly efficient for tall empires, as Habitat districts provide a larger amount of housing, infrastructure and jobs compared to regular planet districts.
The mind boggles at the idea of habitat districts on constructed outer space habitats producing more housing than habitat districts on planets. Sounds like a sensible design balance choice, but I'd hate having to justify that in a sci-fi novel. :D


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Either way, I'm more interested in the machine empire changes. The planetary management AI routines under the tile based system has been notoriously bad in assigning the right pops to the right tiles for the player who used robomodding to create different types of machines for the jobs - not having to swap around POPs between tiles but working from a pool assigning them to jobs ought to be substantially easier to write a fast job allocation routine for (especially with sensible use of caching information for next time it needs updating, though admittedly I'm microoptimizing here), but has this been a priority for 2.2 or is the devteam satisfied with a new allocation routine doing the job roughly as well as the only one? [EDIT: Not that this allocation issue is specific to machine empires, it is relevant for all situations where pops with different traits are present on a planet; It just stands out more for machine empires due to their ability to custom design trait templates.]

Also, any chance now that you are doing some gestalt consciousness changes that we will EVER have the option to DECIDE which of our subspecies/templates get to be leaders for gestalt consciousness? Rather than the current situation where the coffee machine has a greater chance of being chosen for the leader pool than a machine developed for leadership functions, if there are more coffee machine pops than leader pops?

One would have thought that one of the advantages of the gestalt consciousness would be assigning those parts of it developed by the gestalt consciousness for regulating parts of it to do so, rather than giving every part of it an equal chance to lead based on how numerous the part is.
 
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The mind boggles at the idea of habitat districts on constructed outer space habitats producing more housing than habitat districts on planets. Sounds like a sensible design balance choice, but I'd hate having to justify that in a sci-fi novel. :D

What? How can you possibly think this would be hard to justify?

Habitats are built from scratch and don't have gravity or terrain restrictions, so can be built to a much more efficient high density while crafting a perfect recreation environment too, bingo there's your Sci fi justification
 
I know this but how will it be determined which robots are being built?
What do you mean "which" robots? There's only one robot species in your empire unless you conquer another empire's robtos. I don't know whether you can curently construct pops of a robot species you haven't made yourself but if you can it'll most likely work exactly like growing pops on a planet with several species. If you currently can't construct new robot pops from species that originate outside your own empire you probably can't in 2.2 either.
 
Gestalt Consciousnesses
One of the aims of the Planetary Rework was that we wanted to be able to present the different kinds of societies in Stellaris as actually being different on the planet. Under the old system, the planet of a Gestalt Consciousness feels very much like the planet of any other empire, save for a few minor differences such as the fact that the pops don't have happiness. Under Le Guin, this will change considerably, with Hive Minds and Machine Empires getting their own districts, buildings, strata, jobs and planetary mechanics. Hive Minds and Machine Empires share some mechanical differences with normal empires - they do not produce Trade Value and have no internal trade routes (more on this in a later DD), their pops lack Happiness, and instead of Crime they have Deviancy, representing Drones that malfunction or go rogue in some manner. Instead of the normal Strata, pops are generally divided into Simple Drones and Complex Drones, with the previous producing amenities and raw resources and the latter producing research, unity and finished goods. Amenities for Gestalts represents the necessary maintenance capacity required for planet to be functional, and impacts Stability directly instead of affecting Pop Happiness. Stability is still a factor for Gestalts, representing how smoothly the planet is functioning as a part of the collective. A low-stability Gestalt planet will not experience revolts if there are only drones present on it, but it will be impaired in other ways, such as resource production penalties. Gestalts also not produce or require luxury goods, with the sole exception of Rogue Servitors that need it for their bio-trophies.


Hive Minds
In Le Guin, the planets of Hive Minds are focused around rapid growth. Instead of City districts, Hive Minds have Hive districts that provide a very large amount of housing, and each of their raw resource districts provides three jobs where a normal empire only gets two. Hive Minds use the normal biological Pop Growth mechanic, and can also make use of migration mechanics internally - drones will emigrate from overcrowded worlds and immigrate to worlds with free housing. Hive Minds also have a special building, the Spawning Pool, that provides Spawning Drone jobs which use a large amount of food to increase the rate of pop growth on the planet. Furthermore, Hive Minds have their own set of capital buildings that lack the 'colony shelter' level - a newly colonized Hive Mind planet has a fully functional capital present from day one. All of these mechanics make Hive Minds ideal for a 'wide' playstyle, expanding rapidly and claiming huge swathes of space for the Hive.


Machine Empires
Machine Empires share some similarities with Hive Minds, but rather than being focused on rapid growth, their primary focus is efficient use of resources. Like the Hive Minds, they have their own version of housing district, the Nexus District, and their resource extraction districts also provide three jobs where normal empires get two, but in addition to this they also have substantial bonuses to finished goods production, with jobs such as the Fabricator being a more efficient and productive variant of the regular alloy-producing Metallurgist. However, this comes at the expense of being unable to naturally produce new pops, having to rely on costly Replicator jobs to construct new drones. Machine Empires are ideal for an empire that wants to be self-sustaining, and truly shine when they have access to numerous kinds of natural resources.

These sound like very interesting changes as in my opinion one of the biggest strengths of these space 4X games should be the different kinds of civilizations you can play that both look and feel different when you play. :)

And the two main ways to accomplish this that I can think of are:

1. Racial picks that guide your playstyle towards different paths with different picks. (So in essence picks with strong enough bonuses and minuses to achieve this.)
2. A little bit different game mechanics for different species.
 
What? How can you possibly think this would be hard to justify?

Habitats are built from scratch and don't have gravity or terrain restrictions, so can be built to a much more efficient high density while crafting a perfect recreation environment too, bingo there's your Sci fi justification
Life that originated on planets need gravity to live for any extended period of time, as well as food, light, or other nutrients, whether on planets or in habitats. Moreover, it is cheaper to build and maintain habitats on planets, as well as provide sustenance, because the environment needed to sustain life comes built in with the planet, and there's also a lot more space to build on on planets than in constructed space habitats, so you can get larger habitats capable of housing much more life on planets for the same cost, bingo there's the sci fi justification for it being cheaper and more efficient to house people on planets.

EDIT: Which is why most sci fi has most people living on planets, because having to provide all the things needed to a habitat that you get for free with a planet is neither cost nor space efficient.
 
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What do you mean "which" robots? There's only one robot species in your empire unless you conquer another empire's robtos. I don't know whether you can curently construct pops of a robot species you haven't made yourself but if you can it'll most likely work exactly like growing pops on a planet with several species. If you currently can't construct new robot pops from species that originate outside your own empire you probably can't in 2.2 either.
So... you've never used Robomodding, then?
 
Life that originated on planets need gravity to live for any extended period of time, as well as food, light, or other nutrients, whether on planets or in habitats. Moreover, it is cheaper to build and maintain habitats on planets, as well as provide sustenance, because the environment needed to sustain life comes built in with the planet, and there's also a lot more space to build on on planets than in constructed space habitats, so you can get larger habitats capable of housing much more life on planets for the same cost, bingo there's the sci fi justification for it being cheaper and more efficient to house people on planets.

Which is why most sci fi has most people living on planets, because having to provide all the things needed to a habitat that you get for free with a planet is neither cost nor space efficient.

You're just...so wrong?

Read a Culture novel (evergreen advice )
 
Argue your case: Which part is wrong, and why.

Space based manufacture would allow for the deployment of resources on a scale just not possible on a planet with a gravity well. The lack of gravity *during construction* means you could build in three dimensions as easily as easily as two or one. (you can then just switch the AG on when you're done)

You have as big a 3D volume of space as you want, as many resources as you can grab from the asteroid belt, an entirely blank slate to build however you want, and no invasive fauna or flora to infest your infrastructure and citizens

You were asking for a *Sci fi* justification as to why habitats *could* be more efficient.. Thats a low bar
 
Argue your case: Which part is wrong, and why.
I'm sorry I was rude I am just gobsmacked that you think space based density is hard to justify in Sci fi: please read the Player of Games by Ian M Banks and then the rest of the Culture Novels (because they are excellent :) )

It will give you an infinitely better demonstration of how a Sci fi could argue that's planets are less dense than I ever could
 
I'm sorry I was rude I am just gobsmacked that you think space based density is hard to justify in Sci fi: please read the Player of Games by Ian M Banks and then the rest of the Culture Novels (because they are excellent :) )
I have read most of the Culture novels, but they, and other utopian sci fi, only make up a small fraction of the sci fi novels I've read during these 44 years on planet earth. :D (EDIT: And yes, the Culture novels are excellent. My favourite being Excession, narrowly edging out Player of Games.)

The Culture can solve every issue by just throwing resources at it, as it is a post-scarcity society - though this is not the preferred solution. Moreover, they have a utopian tech base, and whether biological or technological, they can do it if they need to. Extremely efficient machines that can create whatever is needed wherever it is needed? No problem.

And if Stellaris' empires had utopian tech bases I'd have no objection, but they don't.

Stellaris depicts a different vision of the future, of societies that are most definitely not post-scarcity, and a world in which many problems of food, construction, and habitability are still very much present.

When the game doesn't even have tech to adapt people for perfect habitability on planets, don't expect people to be adapted well for space based construction, or for them to be able to construct things as easily or cheaply in outer space as they can do on planets. As for taking advantage of the 3D nature of space during construction and then turning on antigravity afterwards, that also means giving up on the advantages of gravity during construction (easy tethering to surfaces in one direction, gravity impact on friction allowing things that are not greatly adhesive to nevertheless stick together rather than moving with the smallest impact).
 
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What do you mean "which" robots? There's only one robot species in your empire unless you conquer another empire's robtos. I don't know whether you can curently construct pops of a robot species you haven't made yourself but if you can it'll most likely work exactly like growing pops on a planet with several species. If you currently can't construct new robot pops from species that originate outside your own empire you probably can't in 2.2 either.
Right now you can make different types of you robot species. For example can I make one with good farming abilities and another with better mineral production. After that, you can convert your robots if you want and if you want to build a new robot you can choose which one. This selection cannot be done with the new system or at least I haven't understood it.
 
I have read most of the Culture novels, but they, and other utopian sci fi, only make up a small fraction of the sci fi novels I've read during these 44 years on planet earth. :D (EDIT: And yes, the Culture novels are excellent. My favourite being Excession, narrowly edging out Player of Games.)

The Culture can solve every issue by just throwing resources at it, as it is a post-scarcity society - though this is not the preferred solution. Moreover, they have a utopian tech base, and whether biological or technological, they can do it if they need to. Extremely efficient machines that can create whatever is needed wherever it is needed? No problem.

And if Stellaris' empires had utopian tech bases I'd have no objection, but they don't.

Stellaris depicts a different vision of the future, of societies that are most definitely not post-scarcity, and a world in which many problems of food, construction, and habitability are still very much present.

When the game doesn't even have tech to adapt people for perfect habitability on planets, don't expect people to be adapted well for space based construction, or for them to be able to construct things as easily or cheaply in outer space as they can do on planets. As for taking advantage of the 3D nature of space during construction and then turning on antigravity afterwards, that also means giving up on the advantages of gravity during construction (easy tethering to surfaces in one direction, gravity impact on friction allowing things that are not greatly adhesive to nevertheless stick together rather than moving with the smallest impact).
Space habitats have a higher "bar of entry" than planetary habitation, but once you can do it they're immensely more practical than building on a planet.

Do you have like... any idea how dirt-cheap making a bunch of cylinder habitats is once you have the infrastructure to build them at all?

Stellaris is space opera in nature, so we actually see more limitations on colonization and orbital construction than are realistic.