Stellaris Dev Diary #129 - Tradition Updates

[MarKr]

Diplomacy
The Diplomacy Traditions are themed around federations, the galactic market and trade.

@grekulf Will the update adress the current problems connected to Federations? Especially the federation fleets which "upgrade" to player's ship designs with no way of upgrading them otherwise and AI often retrofits a huge fleet that you've built to a design that is mostly useless against your enemy (AI preffers to build PD sections even when your opponent uses little or none missiles/strike craft).

No need for any extensive answers, simple "yes, it will be adressed" or "it is on the list but for another update" would be more than enough

 

[SvatyFini]

PLEASE, rework those diplomacy traditions. At least tradition that "allows you to create federation" It have no actual benefit for person who buy that tradition because if nobody joins your aliance, you are not even using that tradition and if anybody joins, basicaly they have that tradition too because they can be in federation.

 

[meiam89.]

Still think you could make an interesting re work with minimal effort.

You could set some tradition in opposition to each others so you can't pick the other if you picked one (expansion vs domination, prosperity vs harmony and supremacy vs diplomacy, with discovery being available to all) and then have some tradition in every tree that could be taken multiple time so that the total number of tradition perk obtainable in a playtrough would stay roughly the same even if you block some trees (so for example the first time you take courier network you gain 20 administration cap and after that you can take it again for +10 every time for a total of 3-4 time or something like that).

It seems like this wouldn't take too long to setup (would need to rework some of them obviously, supremacy shouldn't be so necessary) but would lead in the system being a lot more interesting.

 

[Pale Blue]

PLEASE, rework those diplomacy traditions. At least tradition that "allows you to create federation" It have no actual benefit for person who buy that tradition because if nobody joins your aliance, you are not even using that tradition and if anybody joins, basicaly they have that tradition too because they can be in federation.

On the other hand this seems to be one of those gameplay defining traditions a lot of people want. I think forming a federation should be a society tech and the tradition slot should grant a bonus for being in a federation so you like to pick it if you already are in a federation too. It seems counterintuitive that the diplomacy tree is something that gets worse if you already are in a federation.

Edit: Another thing I dislike about the diplomacy tradition is the completely useless finisher in multiplayer games. Either trust should do something in mp games too or there should be an alternative finisher.

 

[Mauer]

I don't like how Admiral, Governor and Ruler level cap increases traditions don't have an equivalent bonus for Scientists; if you want maximum level Scientists, you have to increase level caps across the board and end up wasting any benefits non-Scientists levels from traditions.

Still think you could make an interesting re work with minimal effort.

You could set some tradition in opposition to each others so you can't pick the other if you picked one (expansion vs domination, prosperity vs harmony and supremacy vs diplomacy, with discovery being available to all) and then have some tradition in every tree that could be taken multiple time so that the total number of tradition perk obtainable in a playtrough would stay roughly the same even if you block some trees (so for example the first time you take courier network you gain 20 administration cap and after that you can take it again for +10 every time for a total of 3-4 time or something like that).

It seems like this wouldn't take too long to setup (would need to rework some of them obviously, supremacy shouldn't be so necessary) but would lead in the system being a lot more interesting.

I agree, it's been the same since traditions were introduced that makes every empire end up with the same bonuses, except for the handful of tradition swaps. Another option would be to have exclusive traditions in each tree, so everyone uses Supremacy, but you can go defensive vs. offensive and quantity vs. quality, for example; maybe like 8-10 traditions per tree and you only need 5 to get the finisher.

 

[Pointyearedgit]

Still think you could make an interesting re work with minimal effort.

You could set some tradition in opposition to each others so you can't pick the other if you picked one (expansion vs domination, prosperity vs harmony and supremacy vs diplomacy, with discovery being available to all) and then have some tradition in every tree that could be taken multiple time so that the total number of tradition perk obtainable in a playtrough would stay roughly the same even if you block some trees (so for example the first time you take courier network you gain 20 administration cap and after that you can take it again for +10 every time for a total of 3-4 time or something like that).

It seems like this wouldn't take too long to setup (would need to rework some of them obviously, supremacy shouldn't be so necessary) but would lead in the system being a lot more interesting.

Setting it up isn’t the hard part, balancing and polishing it takes up way more time. People think: “All they need to do is add X, and I could code that in 5 minutes”. However, X now interacts with every other system in the game. On top of this, you have to play through the game with testers in many different configurations, and then iterate more changes. This is why the swaps are limited (so far) to empires who flat out can’t use a particular tradition. I think they have their hands full already.

 

[Grubnessul]

Good changes, the only issue I'm having with positions is that you always end up with all 6 of them in maybe slightly different order. We need some more (and potentially some tier 2 that are unlocked with a certain combination of trees) for more variation and flavour (why would my super peace loving empire suddenly get dominance just because it's the last tree for me to unlock?)

 

[Snoipah]

So.... discovery is still the best tree to take first.

That research bonus is too good, lets you snowball real fast.

 

[Strigoi Tyrannus]

I can still not make out any Blade Runner Reference.

A New Life -tradition in Expansion.

 

[DmUa]

A New Life -tradition in Expansion.

- this either super obscure or from new ( shitty ) movie.

 

[Strigoi Tyrannus]

- this either super obscure or from new ( shitty ) movie.

The airship or whatever it is broadcasts that. In the original.

 

[SanguiniusStyle]

Please Paradox i want to be the Khan

 

[mammonmachine]

Here's the bit of Blade Runner being referred to:

 

[meiam89.]

Setting it up isn’t the hard part, balancing and polishing it takes up way more time. People think: “All they need to do is add X, and I could code that in 5 minutes”. However, X now interacts with every other system in the game. On top of this, you have to play through the game with testers in many different configurations, and then iterate more changes. This is why the swaps are limited (so far) to empires who flat out can’t use a particular tradition. I think they have their hands full already.

Right but you need to balance any system, so since they're reworking a lot of mechanic at the moment they have to re balance the traditions anyway, what I'm proposing is a small enough change that it won't require significantly more re balancing than what they're already doing.

 

[DmUa]

The airship or whatever it is broadcasts that. In the original.

Here's the bit of Blade Runner being referred to:

- HA! Thanks, never noticed this.

 

[i8theNet]

Dang... Taking away my anomaly bonus chance. I loved racing for that right away before exploring and using every thing at my disposal to increase the odds of anomalies (map the stars, meticulous etc.).

I noticed nothing about Vassals. Will that go away or is it just default we can demand vassals or Tribute?

Also, I would really like it if you made it so part of the Race set up was to pick what scientist you started with... As I said earlier... I love me my meticulous trait.

 

[Veag]

Subjugation is no longer locked behind Domination.

Oh, thank you!

 

[Romanesko]

DLC CONFIRMED

 

[Eklyth]

It would be nice to see some interchangeable traditions rather than the set selection based on your empire.

For example, if your creating a tall empire the expansion civic is not that useful (even as intended by the descriptor provided by this dev diary). However accessing all of the attention slots then mandates you go through these less useful or not really thematically appropriate traditions yo unlock all the ascension slots, which does not seem to make sense.

It would be nice to see some option similar to that in eu--a collection of traditions that you can access to be able to bring some further customization to the game but keep a fixed number that you would be able to unlock by game's end.
Or perhaps a way to get all the ascension perks without mandating the traditions.

 

[PalmettoExplorer14]

While I'm happy at the new stuff we're getting with the updated and reworked traditions I'm a bit saddened that the Supremacy tradition tree no longer gives bonuses to armies.

Still they're continuously working on the traditions so it's possible that somewhere armies will still get bonuses.

Plus there are always mods!