Stellaris Dev Diary #150 - 2.3 "Wolfe" Patch Notes | Page 7

mysticdueler · May 31, 2019

Peko? said:
We don't have that degree of control over the que though. As far as I know there's no way to cancel one task in the que without canceling the entire que.

I can think of a way, but is a very hands-on, micromanaging way:

Queue up your outposts, with the furthest one as a shift-ctrl-click
As soon as said outpost is finished, cancel the rest of the queue.

Of course, this assumes the shift-ctrl-click still gets the adjacency discount.

Ancillary · May 31, 2019

LystAP said:
With changes to habitats, you can build habitats over space strategic resource deposits and extract them by districts.

I assume you're referencing this bit?

Jamor said:
* Habitats built over rare deposits now gain the associated deposits

I read this to mean that the habitat will have a deposit that can be exploited with a mine building (just like on a normal planet)--which will probably yield more than the mining station it replaces would, but doesn't justify an entire habitat all by itself.

Shatari · May 31, 2019

LystAP said:
With changes to habitats, you can build habitats over space strategic resource deposits and extract them by districts.

Will that be done by districts? Okay, if habitats are becoming super mining stations then it's not so bad. A bit micromanage-ish and I wish that we could automate individual planets, but it's better.

Methone · May 31, 2019

Shatari said:
A bit micromanage-ish and I wish that we could automate individual planets,

I have some great news for you.

Peter34 · May 31, 2019

Shatari said:
Yeah, but they only give 1 job per building slot so it's really awkward to dedicate a planet as a refinery world. It's also really hard to mix those into any other worlds because the job weight is surprisingly low, and the job designation function is awful.

They’re Specialist tier Jobs, so they *will* get filled.

Ancillary · May 31, 2019

Methone said:
Not so, my friend! Simply place them onto your rural worlds. You know, the ones where you fill out energy/mining/food first and only leave what you need for cities? Weave them in.

They'll be practically your only specialist job too on those worlds, so getting them employed is easy.

You know, maybe it's just me, but my rural-to-urban world ratio tends to be pretty low, certainly not high enough to provide the refinery capacity all my upgraded buildings need. The technology buffs for basic resource extraction on a per-pop basis scale like crazy in a way that specialist output doesn't. (EDIT: And that's not even counting the use of livestock or megastructures like the Dyson Sphere and Matter Decompressor.) On top of that, districts contribute to empire sprawl; if I don't have an urgent need for more basic resources, it can be self-defeating to add another planet of farms or mines that will stymie tech advancement just so I can hit the resource cap that much faster.

Habitats seem to be way to go for refineries; unfortunately, they've had their own problems when it comes to unlocking building slots. Allowing them to build commercial districts in 2.3 will hopefully address this somewhat.

Methone · May 31, 2019

Ancillary said:
You know, maybe it's just me, but my rural-to-urban world ratio tends to be pretty low, certainly not high enough to provide the refinery capacity all my upgraded buildings need. The technology buffs for basic resource extraction on a per-pop basis scale like crazy in a way that specialist output doesn't. On top of that, districts contribute to empire sprawl; if I don't have an urgent need for more basic resources, it can be self-defeating to add another planet of farms or mines that will stymie tech advancement just so I can hit the resource cap that much faster.

Habitats seem to be way to go for refineries; unfortunately, they've had their own problems when it comes to unlocking building slots. Allowing them to build commercial districts in 2.3 will hopefully address this somewhat.

Really? I usually have no problem, even with city-worlds sucking up a lot of basic resources. I just designate my homeworld and the first 2-3 planets I come across as 'future urban worlds' and, once I get a bunch of other colonies online, I transition them. One's loaded to the gills with alloy buildings, the other research, etc.

Even if you don't have city-worlds, just designate another few 'future urbans'.

Trithemius · May 31, 2019

Kherty said:
A lot of people are asking question about this and while I am excited for the change I am tempering my expectations based on my interpretation of the dev diary.

What I am currently expecting:

The various designations (urban world, mining world, agri-world, etc) can now be selected manually in addition to letting the game auto assign one. The devs have come up with a build order for each designation. At this time the dev created build orders cannot be edited or customized (ignoring mods). You have an option to either turn on automation (the planet will proceed to follow the build order for it's current designation) or turn off automation.

I really hope there is something in the dev pipeline for a planet manager UI to allow for customising build orders or planet types - similar to the fleet manager perhaps.

(Being able to duplicate fleet patterns might be a nice quality of life addition too now that I think about it...)

Shatari · May 31, 2019

Peter34 said:
They’re Specialist tier Jobs, so they *will* get filled.

Yeah, if your population eventually gets high enough that all of the other specialist jobs are filled. Otherwise they have a low weight even when marked as a high priority.

Methone · May 31, 2019

Shatari said:
Yeah, if your population eventually gets high enough that all of the other specialist jobs are filled. Otherwise they have a low weight even when marked as a high priority.

Like I said dude, just weave them onto your Rural worlds.

Ancillary · May 31, 2019

Methone said:
Really? I usually have no problem, even with city-worlds sucking up a lot of basic resources. I just designate my homeworld and the first 2-3 planets I come across as 'future urban worlds' and, once I get a bunch of other colonies online, I transition them. One's loaded to the gills with alloy buildings, the other research, etc.

Even if you don't have city-worlds, just designate another few 'future urbans'.

Er, maybe I didn't express myself clearly. I meant that my empires tend to be highly urban by default, since the basic resource producing pops are so darn efficient.

Methone · May 31, 2019

Ancillary said:
Er, maybe I didn't express myself clearly. I meant that my empires tend to be highly urban by default, since the basic resource producing pops are so darn efficient.

Ah. In that case yes, I can see having some problems with rare resources. Um. Sort of. You can still plop down a few onto your urban worlds, if you have so many.

Sigma 582 · May 31, 2019

regarding refineries, you can mix them with t3 buildings. i.e. every 2 slots are "t3 foundry + mote plants". The plant covers upkeep for the foundry, and these two buildings require 10 pops to unlock slots while giving 9 jobs; 10th pop gets to work a job from capital or clerk job from city district.

another option is habitat with mix of 3 housing and 5 trade districts. you can employ 35-40 pops unlocking slots for 7 refineries and some other building.

LystAP · May 31, 2019

Ancillary said:
I assume you're referencing this bit?

I read this to mean that the habitat will have a deposit that can be exploited with a mine building (just like on a normal planet)--which will probably yield more than the mining station it replaces would, but doesn't justify an entire habitat all by itself.

I think it would be districts. Due to the fact that they would have to make new buildings to extract Zro and Living Metal. But we'll have to see. Since everyone can make habitats now, they don't need to nerf their potential. In fact, it may be encouraging to be able to produce all those resources in order to account for the fact ringworlds and ecumonopolis require said resources now.

Ancillary · May 31, 2019

LystAP said:
I think it would be districts. Due to the fact that they would have to make new buildings to extract Zro and Living Metal. But we'll have to see. Since everyone can make habitats now, they don't need to nerf their potential. In fact, it may be encouraging to be able to produce all those resources in order to account for the fact ringworlds and ecumonopolis require said resources now.

Goodness knows, I'd certainly like to see more ways to generate these resources. I'm just skeptical they've added several new district types and are only introducing them to us in a cryptically-worded patch note rather than trumpeting them as a major feature.

LystAP · May 31, 2019

I am suddenly reminded. Will the bug where AI builds tons of habitats, but never colonizes them, be fixed? Or is it already fixed?

Incompetent · May 31, 2019

Losttruppen said:
Hi Jamor, could you expand on these changes at all? Seems like a direct nerf to Life-seeded early-mid game with a huge buff late game, but the civic is already in a pretty tight spot early on and if you make it to where you can terraform to Gaia you have most likely already solved the problems of habitability through gene-mods, multi-species, robots, etc.

Honestly I don't think Life-Seeded was ever intended to be a competitive pick: the drawbacks are severe, yes, but the real problem with it is that the benefits of a single size-25 Gaia world are barely enough to justify a permanent civic slot. It's mainly in the game for 'one-planet challenge' meme builds, and even that kind of build would eventually transition to an Ecumenopolis nowadays.

As you say, Gaia terraforming does too little and comes too late to be a real game-changer (although maybe if the devs clamp down on the current oversupply of habitability bonuses, the period when typical empires have to worry about habitability will stretch into the terraforming era). But if you're specifically thinking of Life-Seeded, the fundamental problem here is that everyone else can make Gaia worlds if they want to, and given that they have much better pops than you do, they'll probably get there faster. Even in a late-game empire chock-full of Gaia worlds, Life-Seeded is doing nothing to make those Gaia worlds any better (and it's actually still holding the empire back slightly by occupying a civic slot).

If you really did want to make Life-Seeded a rational civic to pick, one of two things would have to happen:

1. At present, Life-Seeded is a *civic*, the upside is one buffed *planet*, but the downside is cursed *pops*. Having the effects work on such different levels makes for an awkward, self-deconstructing combo: in any kind of non-xenophobic setup, of course you'll try to ethnically cleanse or transform your 'primary' species as fast as you can. (By contrast, civics that give blessed pops do make sense, because the empire that owns them will naturally try to propagate them.) To get an empire that actually plays in accordance with the founder species, those pops need to lean into the Gaia preference somehow: either give them an additional production bonus on Gaia worlds, or give the preference a negative trait value (so you can make them good pops in more specific ways). This would make the start a bit less brutal, but more importantly, your starter species can come good later, and you have interesting choices to make in species management throughout the game.

2. Life-Seeded would give some considerable boost along the terraforming path (like a heavy tech draw weighting in this direction), and/or make Gaia terraforming cheaper when you finally get there. If you want a lore justification: your scientists realize that their homeworld is the result of an ancient terraforming project, learn something about how it was done, and realize that it's absolutely vital that they figure it out if their species is to have much of a future. That way, you at least have a chance to get World Shaper faster than some generic tech/unity build.

LystAP · May 31, 2019

Incompetent said:
Honestly I don't think Life-Seeded was ever intended to be a competitive pick: the drawbacks are severe, yes, but the real problem with it is that the benefits of a single size-25 Gaia world are barely enough to justify a permanent civic slot. It's mainly in the game for 'one-planet challenge' meme builds, and even that kind of build would eventually transition to an Ecumenopolis nowadays.

As you say, Gaia terraforming does too little and comes too late to be a real game-changer (although maybe if the devs clamp down on the current oversupply of habitability bonuses, the period when typical empires have to worry about habitability will stretch into the terraforming era). But if you're specifically thinking of Life-Seeded, the fundamental problem here is that everyone else can make Gaia worlds if they want to, and given that they have much better pops than you do, they'll probably get there faster. Even in a late-game empire chock-full of Gaia worlds, Life-Seeded is doing nothing to make those Gaia worlds any better (and it's actually still holding the empire back slightly by occupying a civic slot).

If you really did want to make Life-Seeded a rational civic to pick, one of two things would have to happen:

1. At present, Life-Seeded is a *civic*, the upside is one buffed *planet*, but the downside is cursed *pops*. Having the effects work on such different levels makes for an awkward, self-deconstructing combo: in any kind of non-xenophobic setup, of course you'll try to ethnically cleanse or transform your 'primary' species as fast as you can. (By contrast, civics that give blessed pops do make sense, because the empire that owns them will naturally try to propagate them.) To get an empire that actually plays in accordance with the founder species, those pops need to lean into the Gaia preference somehow: either give them an additional production bonus on Gaia worlds, or give the preference a negative trait value (so you can make them good pops in more specific ways). This would make the start a bit less brutal, but more importantly, your starter species can come good later, and you have interesting choices to make in species management throughout the game.

2. Life-Seeded would give some considerable boost along the terraforming path (like a heavy tech draw weighting in this direction), and/or make Gaia terraforming cheaper when you finally get there. If you want a lore justification: your scientists realize that their homeworld is the result of an ancient terraforming project, learn something about how it was done, and realize that it's absolutely vital that they figure it out if their species is to have much of a future. That way, you at least have a chance to get World Shaper faster than some generic tech/unity build.

I don't really see Life-Seeded as a seriously competitive Civic, especially for multiplayer. It's mostly a single player (or RP) civic from my experience, or a handicap purposely selected to give other people an advantage. I don't know of any build that uses it in a rational manner, aside from the exploitative genocide farming.

Nahadoth · May 31, 2019

Sigma 582 said:
regarding refineries, you can mix them with t3 buildings. i.e. every 2 slots are "t3 foundry + mote plants". The plant covers upkeep for the foundry, and these two buildings require 10 pops to unlock slots while giving 9 jobs; 10th pop gets to work a job from capital or clerk job from city district.

This is how I do it. My foundry and science worlds produce most of their own rare resources. Unless they are really big, so I can have enough housing to fill it up completely with foundries.

Imperator Yggdrasil · May 31, 2019

Jamor said:
* Queuing up multiple outpost constructions will now give the adjacency discount for influence costs where appropriate

I've been looking forward to a solution on this issue, but I wasn't sure how it could be done without spending extra clock time on resource recalculation. Looks like the dev team figured out a way to make it work! Free patch 2.3 and the Ancient Relics pack look like they're loaded with exciting changes, both big and small, and I can't wait for next week so I can try them out.

Major

Captain

Corporal

Banned

Captain

Captain

Banned

Convoluted Antipodean

Corporal

Banned

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Banned

Colonel

First Lieutenant

Captain

First Lieutenant

Euroweenie in Exile

First Lieutenant

Sergeant

Governor of Covfefe