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Stellaris Dev Diary #157 - Things That Rock

Hi everyone!

I’m Eladrin, Game Designer on Stellaris, and I’m one of the newer members of the Stellaris team. I joined the team during the development of Ancient Relics, and it’s been a blast. It was awesome meeting so many of you at PDXCON, and getting to hear so many ideas and excellent stories directly from you.

Back in Diary 152 and Dev Diary 153, Grekulf mentioned some of the Summer Experimentation that we did - but in today’s dev diary I wanted to talk about one of the things I worked on during the summer - game mechanics for the Lithoids.


The Lithoids Species Pack is very sedimental to me. When I wanted to dig deeper into the systems and get my hands dirty in the code, I looked at the “wouldn’t it be cool if…” list, and saw “...Lithoids ate minerals instead of food?” up near the top. This seemed like a solid foundation to start with, and a gneiss stepping stone to get my feet on the ground that fit my apatite - it seemed like a pretty simple change after all.

Okay, I’ll stop with the rock puns.

There are fifteen Lithoid portraits (and one new machine portrait), some of which have appearances that resemble some of the other phenotypes so you can do some interesting things with Syncretic Evolution.

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Look at me! I'm a sparkly space unicorn!

The ships use a beautiful asymmetrical crystal design. Remember that the colors of your ships reflect your flag. You can use this to your advantage to make a pretty sweet looking fleet.

usK7EFLJ-m58of6NqCRXBIYfPxBJJ_h2YVok5lcvsCD3hTO1tvS5ifJ-ImD1DlZ177nx680g4Gko-WGfl6LoCZ4xeNSZuCllWNN1h7bUfS6T6g3XncpT85XmKwxjTj4AP3WsAw9C

This is my favorite Titan in the game.

There’s also a Lithoid Advisor Voice. I may have stopped with the puns for now, but there’s no force in the universe that can stop the Lithoid Advisor.

Changing the Lithoids to consume minerals was simple enough, but we also wanted to embrace the sci-fi trope of slow growing rock beings living in inhospitable climates. We started by giving them a massive boost to habitability which they still retain today, and a much larger pop growth penalty than they eventually ended up with. For flavor they receive a bonus to Army Health, and we increased their leader lifespans (but have their leaders start somewhat older as well).

Every little change leads to several more, however. If a species eats minerals instead of food, their homeworld should start with extra mining districts and no agricultural districts built. In fact, if a species evolved to eat rocks, their homeworld should probably by mineral rich and food poor. But wait, what about if they’re a Syncretic Evolution species, or if a Rogue Servitor wants to start with pet rocks? What about if they want to be a Devouring Swarm?

Many minor changes came along with what started as a simple economic change. Just a few examples include the Lithoids being tragically unable to be declared the most delicious species in the galaxy if there are any alternatives, loosening restrictions a bit on Bio-Reactors, modifying the Fleeting trait to be -25 years for Lithoids instead of -10, and a handful of Tradition changes. We also added a few Lithoid specific traits that allow them to generate small amounts of special resources every month.

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After many rounds of qualitative feedback and a huge number of playdays, we ended up with the following as the Lithoid species trait:

IKr3aLYSPMDG6ykqVuxy9ejmx5PUFR9e6lWQY71XzKI-eiKH9U6h0-umkPRCkKos3W69GPqD5Az0GT1bA0QVryNkR2Mcma0xWyVWpcIeJuss4f8bqCuB2by4pfScOE04MYCwZBXr


The large habitability boost that Lithoids receive allow them to colonize worlds that would be marginal for other species, allowing them to work around their slower pop growth speed. Empires with a Lithoid primary species also begin with Lithoid Monolith blockers on their homeworld that can be removed at a large mineral cost for an additional Lithoid pop. (A Lithoid specific Origin in Federations modifies these a bit, and… we’ll talk more about that in another Dev Diary.)

9jm3nVXUa_OCznV1rJuV3PrHek2RNF-n1Dx7W2Q9GHBVeh5jd1F8HH7sfo8fE70Ji21fenNpKajpZy2cN7_ZcfUHFvd35wDNTjr4LgUYUq0FOB3aEnMYdtqPIIVdpBU5QDhp8mz4

So very sleepy.

The Lithoid trait is automatically applied to any species that uses a Lithoid portrait. For the Xenophiles out there, Half-Lithoids generated by Xeno-Compatibility follow this rule as well, so if the portrait is a Lithoid it will consume minerals instead of food, produce minerals when purged, and so on.

We’ve exposed this ability so modders should be able to similarly add phenotype forced traits to species they create by adding trait = "trait_lithoid" to the species class entry. (Replacing the Lithoid trait with their own custom species trait, of course.) I look forward to seeing what you do with it.

As for the Lithoid Devouring Swarm… They don’t have precisely the same motivations as a regular Devouring Swarm. While they will still press organics inhabiting the worlds they take into nutritive paste for the Bio-Reactors, their hunger is a bit more ambitious. Renamed Terravores, they operate largely the same way as a regular Devouring Swarm, but once off their homeworld they have an additional planetary decision to consume the habitable worlds of the galaxy, leaving devastated husks in their wake:

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Are you going to eat that?

Terravores are barred from Terraforming (and thus do not have access to Hive Worlds) and cannot clear the devastation they leave behind, but other empires can clean up after them, though it takes a major effort.

Modders will now be able to change the name and description of a civic out for another based on species class, similar to how traditions can be swapped.

civic_hive_devouring_swarm = {

>snip existing stuff<

swap_type = {
name = civic_hive_devouring_swarm_lithoid
description = "civic_tooltip_devouring_swarm_lithoid_effects"​

trigger = {
local_human_species_class = LITHOID​
}​
}​
}

I’m quite pleased with how the Lithoids turned out, I think they're a real gem. I hope that you all enjoy it just as much.

In a few hours the free 2.5.0 patch will be up and the Lithoids Species Pack will be available for shale, so pick it up, rock out, and leave the galaxy gravelling at your feet!

#################################################################
######################### VERSION 2.5.0 ############################
#################################################################

###################
# Balance
###################
* The Pop Growth Reduction for Bio-Trophies now actually reduces their growth rate. Driven Assimilators now apply their organic growth penalty as a multiplier the same way as Rogue Servitors do, and is now also 50%
* Defensive Platforms placed on Outposts now provide 2 points of Piracy Suppression for their system. The Great Game tradition from the Supremacy tree now also reduces the cost to build Defensive Platforms by 33%


###################
# UI
###################
* Shift+clicking on ship count in the Fleet Manager now adds ships up to the nearest unit of ten, using ctrl fills up to the template max size (for realzies this time)
* The Shared Burdens civic will no longer appear by itself in the civics list when you select Gestalt Consciousness ethics but have not yet selected Machine Intelligence or Hive Minded authority
* Added a notification when one empire guarantees the independence of another

###################
# AI
###################
* Automated building now checks that upkeep cost is covered by income

###################
# Bugfixes
###################
* Fixed wrong save file being loaded from the resume button in the launcher, caused by a conflict between local and cloud saves
* Fixed the game complaining about mods not being in UTF8-BOM3 for no good reason
* Fixed a potential crash in AI when evaluating market values
* Fixed cases where planetary events could fire multiple notifications
* Odd Factories no longer sometimes block pops from getting purged, because you monsters should be free to purge whatever you want
* Mod load order is now the same as the order in which the mods are displayed

Known Issue: Lithoids are currently affected like other biological pops when there is a food deficit, instead of being upset by mineral deficits. They’re very empathetic.
 
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I like this idea. Though I've always thought 0% habitability is when you shouldn't be colonizing a world anyway. Of course, this would probably hit life-seeded empires pretty nastily until they can get immigrants, synthetics, or habitability techs (including preference modification), whichever comes first. But I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
Agreed, maybe go to a system where you can't colonize worlds under a certain habitability threshold? I also want to say I'm disappointed that another strength of Lithoids is actually nonexistant, you get +50 year leader lifespan, but your leaders start 30-40 years older, so it's only a roughly +15 year leader lifespan increase.
This was, in fact, the pre-2.2 system. 20% was the minimum you could colonize with.
 
This was, in fact, the pre-2.2 system. 20% was the minimum you could colonize with.
... Can we go back to that? Please?
 
Important question: when Federations comes out, will we be able to start as a Terravore with the Void Dwellers Origin? Because I'd really like being able to play as an insane hive that literally devoured its own homeworld and had to flee into space.
I expect not, since Void Dwellers will be an Origin and Terravore/Devouring Swarm/Fanatic Purifier/Determined Exterminator will also all be Origins, and you can only pick one.
Habitability should matter, but the current penalties are just WAY too oppressive.
Disagree, I think they're juuuuuust right. It was very piquant in 2.3 when my default strategy (since v1.0) to colonize every rock at the first opportunity caused my economy to just crash straight into the ground.
... Can we go back to that? Please?
If you hate 20% habitability worlds so much, why don't you just, y'know, CHOOSE not to colonize them?
 
Terravore/Devouring Swarm/Fanatic Purifier/Determined Exterminator will also all be Origins, and you can only pick one.
Pretty sure that's actually not true. Source on that?
It was my understanding that the total war civics will remain civics.
 
Made a mod that splits the unique resource generating phenotype traits for lithoid plus adds one more to cover Molluscoids, Fungoids, and Plantoids.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1897879445

Can you confirm if it's possible to create chosen traits, limited by phenotype, rather than a single mandatory trait for that phenotype?

Would it be possible to give a phenotype a selection of traits, specific to their type?
 
I was about to drop the ten bucks on the dlc, but I know better and checked the portraits first.

Why ON EARTH are all the lithoids looking like allready existing species that were magically turned to stone?

This is killing it for my. I mean, wow. How endlessly creative and interesting could that pack of portraits have been. Now we have stonified robots, wow. What a horrible design decision. This is the same lazyness as with the humanoid pack, just worse.
 
This was, in fact, the pre-2.2 system. 20% was the minimum you could colonize with.
True, but you're also leaving out the thing where happiness was capped to habitability, and production scaled linearly with happiness. I don't remember if pop growth was affected the way it is now, but it didn't matter nearly as much back then, either. Colonizing a 60% world meant getting a maximum of 60% resource production out of it, which is equivalent to colonizing a 20% world under the current system.
 
I was about to drop the ten bucks on the dlc, but I know better and checked the portraits first.

Why ON EARTH are all the lithoids looking like allready existing species that were magically turned to stone?

This is killing it for my. I mean, wow. How endlessly creative and interesting could that pack of portraits have been. Now we have stonified robots, wow. What a horrible design decision. This is the same lazyness as with the humanoid pack, just worse.

Some of the portraits look like existing species, and others don't.

I imagine they wanted to strike a balance between recognizable forms and more alien, amorphous ones. They did.

Since the theme of Stellaris is Every-Space-Opera-Trope-In-One-Bowl, they probably wanted people to have the option of playing anthropomorphic lithoids (Steven Universe Gems) and non-anthropomorphic ones (Star Trek Hortas).
 
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Pretty sure that's actually not true. Source on that?
It was my understanding that the total war civics will remain civics.

Stellaris' eighteen new origin picks | Rock Paper Shotgun

Back in 2017’s Utopia update, Paradox added a bunch of specialisation options for empires called civics, and a small few of these described a species’ background and gave it associated traits.
...
The four background civics have been promoted to origins, and joined by up to fourteen entirely new entries.
The 4 un-swap-out-able "background civics" that were in Utopia were Fanatic Purifiers, Devouring Swarm, Mechanist, and Syncretic Evolution.

And I should add an addendum that even if this info weren't in the RPS article: obviously FP etc would be the Civics shifted to Origins, the clamour for distinguishing Origins from Civics came from these forums and the whole point was to draw a hard line between un-swap-out-ables and swap-out-ables. The whole reason people wanted an Origin category in the first place was to put Fanatic Purification in it.


EDIT: Disregard, I am retard
 
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So I've been playing with my little rocki bois on a small map, ironman, terravores, and while my primary response is posted under the thread "is it just me or is consuming a planet as terravore just not worth it," I think it's worth mentioning here that right now, while the idea is excellent, and I'd love to see more, the rocki bois need some work.

-The portraits are fine, sure maybe some more original ones would be neat, but whatevs, not a serious concern.

-The real problem is that the principle purpose of terravors, terravoring, isn't particularly viable later in the game, and is a real UEx/UI hassle, the benefits need to scale with time or research, so there is still a justification for losing the huge benefit of a colonized world, and there needs to either be:
A: Automatic reapplication of planetary consuming button
B: A notification for when noms are completed.

still, I think it's generally a good addition, and Plantoids could really become worth buying if it gets similar treatment. Energy/food/photosynthesis thing maybe?
 
-The real problem is that the principle purpose of terravors, terravoring, isn't particularly viable later in the game, and is a real UEx/UI hassle, the benefits need to scale with time or research,
As you were told in the other thread: terravoring isn't supposed to be viable in the late game because you're supposed to exploit it hard and early so your enemies don't even make it to the late game.
 
That just doesn't make much sense, it isn't really going out and eating the galaxy if you have to give up on that plan forty years in because it's simply unviable. That seems like a crappy mechanic. I wasn't unde the impression that it was *supposed* to be that way. If you can find a dev quote, sure, but otherwise I don't trust your interpretation.
 
Some of the portraits look like existing species, and others don't.

I imagine they wanted to strike a balance between recognizable forms and more alien, amorphous ones. They did.

I count at least eight that look like existing species. Is the seventh picture a stonified version of the clawfinger-robot? Please, please tell my that it isnt.

Does it make ANY sense a lithoid would look like an existing species? If so, then I dont get it. There is a "turn everybody into a golem" event somewhere, I guess, but apart from that?

I cant help myself, but this makes me really sad because of the lazyness and the wasted possibilities. Maybe it was cheaper this way to "clothe" an older model with some stony elements, I dont know.
 
That just doesn't make much sense, it isn't really going out and eating the galaxy if you have to give up on that plan forty years in because it's simply unviable. That seems like a crappy mechanic. I wasn't unde the impression that it was *supposed* to be that way. If you can find a dev quote, sure, but otherwise I don't trust your interpretation.
I feel like completely depleting all of a planet's districts should give a special decision to turn the planet permanently uninhabitable and give you a really big boost, maybe turn the planet into a shattered world and distribute all the pops that were on it to planets with free jobs, plus giving a large pop/alloy/mineral boost. This would make it true denial of resources to the enemy and make it worthwhile to completely eat a planet, facilitating a tall-ish playstyle where you maintain your core worlds while sending out "consumption fleets" that eat enemy planets then disassemble starbases to just leave the area desolate.
 
I count at least eight that look like existing species. Is the seventh picture a stonified version of the clawfinger-robot? Please, please tell my that it isnt.


Portraits 2, 7, 8, 9, 11, and 13 look pretty different from anything I've seen on Animal Planet. The others have varying degrees of carbonic form to them. Maybe you think these portraits look carbonic because they have limbs or something? I'd say that's demanding a bit too much. They don't even have clear "faces".

Does it make ANY sense a lithoid would look like an existing species? If so, then I dont get it. There is a "turn everybody into a golem" event somewhere, I guess, but apart from that?

Stop arguing realism in a space opera.

Realism left the building when your FTL ship made its first jump, and then the building burned down as your arctic-preference lizards psionically ascended.

Stellaris is a soft sci-fi on the level of Star Wars. Things don't have to make sense according to the rules of reality, they only have to make sense according to the setting's internal logic.
 
Does it make ANY sense a lithoid would look like an existing species? If so, then I dont get it. There is a "turn everybody into a golem" event somewhere, I guess, but apart from that?
A) It literally says in the OP of this thread that they did it so you could have fun with Syncretic Evolution, rp-ing that, idk, your species bifurcated into rocks and not-rocks.
B) How do you know it's the rocks that look like existing species, and not the existing species that look like rocks? In-universe, they all achieve FTL at the same time, so who knows which one's "first"? It's certainly doesn't have to follow the DLC publication date.
C) As a rule I dislike bringing IRL science answers into a game with time-travelling romantic black holes, but this one's just too easy: convergent evolution. Doesn't matter whether you're made of meat or granite; if you're shaped by Darwinian forces, everyone needs sensory organs, everyone needs manipulating appendages.

I cant help myself, but this makes me really sad because of the lazyness and the wasted possibilities. Maybe it was cheaper this way to "clothe" an older model with some stony elements, I dont know.
I think your reaction is totally irrational, unreasonable, and probably just flat-out wrong as a matter of raw fact. The rock portraits are great, there's nothing wrong with them being similar to the animal portraits and indeed there are many things right with that similarity as discussed above.

Napoleon told us never to attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by laziness or stupidity - here you're doing even worse, attributing to other people's stupidity what can be adequately explained by your own stupidity.
 
Stellaris' eighteen new origin picks | Rock Paper Shotgun


The 4 un-swap-out-able "background civics" that were in Utopia were Fanatic Purifiers, Devouring Swarm, Mechanist, and Syncretic Evolution.

And I should add an addendum that even if this info weren't in the RPS article: obviously FP etc would be the Civics shifted to Origins, the clamour for distinguishing Origins from Civics came from these forums and the whole point was to draw a hard line between un-swap-out-ables and swap-out-ables. The whole reason people wanted an Origin category in the first place was to put Fanatic Purification in it.
That very same article explicitly mentiones the 4 civics that have been turned into origins: Mechanist, Syncretic evolution, Life-seeded and Post-apocalyptic (Survivor)
The genocidal civics keep being civics. Being able to play a life-seeded Devouring swarm is in part the whole point of having origins.
 
Stellaris' eighteen new origin picks | Rock Paper Shotgun


The 4 un-swap-out-able "background civics" that were in Utopia were Fanatic Purifiers, Devouring Swarm, Mechanist, and Syncretic Evolution.

And I should add an addendum that even if this info weren't in the RPS article: obviously FP etc would be the Civics shifted to Origins, the clamour for distinguishing Origins from Civics came from these forums and the whole point was to draw a hard line between un-swap-out-ables and swap-out-ables. The whole reason people wanted an Origin category in the first place was to put Fanatic Purification in it.
Mmmm.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ary-155-origins.1250456/page-10#post-25850536