Stellaris Dev Diary #16 - Colony Events

[Jonathan Palfrey]

The problem with 'right answers' is that it simply becomes 'only answer.' No one will take the second option for an event that results in 'gain 100 gold' or 'lose a random upgrade in you primary holding.' That's why Paradox games either go with percentage chance for success or all the outcomes are either good or bad, but affecting different areas so the player can try to maximise the benefit or minimise the penalties (and won't be heavily punished for a more roleplaying type answer).

I didn't mean to suggest that one option should always be the best one; just that the player should have some basis for making an intelligent choice between them.

In Crusader Kings II, there's an event in which a murder has occurred and you have to decide what to do with the suspect. In my experience after going through this event repeatedly, it doesn't matter what you do, every decision turns out equally badly. With many other events, it seems to me impossible to make an intelligent decision on the basis of the information presented to the player. There may be a good decision to be made, but you can only guess at which one it is.

 

[aitaituo]

I didn't mean to suggest that one option should always be the best one; just that the player should have some basis for making an intelligent choice between them.

In Crusader Kings II, there's an event in which a murder has occurred and you have to decide what to do with the suspect. In my experience after going through this event repeatedly, it doesn't matter what you do, every decision turns out equally badly. With many other events, it seems to me impossible to make an intelligent decision on the basis of the information presented to the player. There may be a good decision to be made, but you can only guess at which one it is.

That event is totally random. Your decisions are only for flavor.

 

[wam-mnebu]

BORLAND
Other times, the outcome can be disastrous, like when the colonists of Xianyang activated that ancient abandoned terraforming equipment, only to discover that the aliens who built it breathed ammonia!

I knew it! you would have to be from another planet to like Bleach.

 

[Safehold]

War, war has not changed for Paradox's grand strategy... good thing all of our forces did not demilitarize then.

In my experience after going through this event repeatedly, it doesn't matter what you do, every decision turns out equally badly.

As stated, CK2 events are not a primary game mechanic. You don't have ways to deal with it, so they give you choices for flavor and randomness.

In Stellaris, the research, special projects, and events will be primary game play mechanics. Meaning, there will be options to deal with them, other than just waiting for stuff to happen. I would liken Stellaris' event system to CK2's title system or guardian system for children/traits.

Getting caught up on the name "events", does not mean the gameplay mechanics are the same or even similar. I've read and understood the CK2 event coding by now, and seen how they work in game, as well as modified a few different event chances. So I'm not describing an abstract mechanic from the player's view point. The CK2 event system, because it has gameplay "mechanics" that revolve around clicking on A to B or C to D options, with some random probabilities and chance factor/triggers, is nowhere near what they are building for Stellaris' event mechanics.

 

[Praetori]

Getting caught up on the name "events", does not mean the gameplay mechanics are the same or even similar. I've read and understood the CK2 event coding by now, and seen how they work in game, as well as modified a few different event chances. So I'm not describing an abstract mechanic from the player's view point. The CK2 event system, because it has gameplay "mechanics" that revolve around clicking on A to B or C to D options, with some random probabilities and chance factor/triggers, is nowhere near what they are building for Stellaris' event mechanics.

It's not impossible to do similar stuff in other PDS titles such as CK2. The trick is creating all the stuff that is the outcome.

You can use event triggers to create/unlock something similar as special projects such as provincial improvements which in turn have other prerequisites. Or you could build tiered scripted events that has other eventflags as prerequisites or sets flags to trigger other stuff like modifiers to in-game mechanics in a very dynamic way.

I suspect that Stellaris event system is mainly a further development of the same system with better tools for the devs that makes it simpler and has a better connection to the rest of the mechanics. The research system being "hidden" instead of tiered enables stuff like special projects in a different way than would be the case with existing PDS titles.

 

[Safehold]

The trick is creating all the stuff that is the outcome.

The script engine for Clausewitz should still be similar enough to do that, and I've thought about adding a bit of that functionality to my own versions.

Some of it was added with on decision diplomacy actions. But the CK 2 engine is still from 2012, whereas Stellaris is using the newest version.

Way of Life and Horse Lords both had more gameplay centered mechanics, which tied into the script. WoL was written by a number of people, each with a "stake" or ownership of certain script files, such as the carousing thing and the warrior thing. And they all reflected the various different coding and personalities of their creators, but it wasn't solidified or reiterated using gameplay feedback. So it kind of felt off, not a complete experience. Some of the content was hard to get to, without modding. HL was a more complete experience, with a more unified vision, since the mechanics played into that vision.

Or you could build tiered scripted events that has other eventflags as prerequisites or sets flags to trigger other stuff like modifiers to in-game mechanics in a very dynamic way.

Yes, like using the decision dialog box to branch off into a fractal pattern, by setting invisible player modifiers like the script writer for carousing did. That would allow the user to pick Path A vs Path B, and the script would then assign unique modifiers to characters for either path, allowing different but unified in vision, events to occur later on.

The complexity of the scripting in CK2 only stopped after a few branches. In Stellaris it would begin to look like a real fractal pattern, which they would need some kind of code UI and debugger to figure out, because the syntax in notepad ++ is not going to handle it.

If they can define certain variables as being composed of a particular code tree in the event sequence, they could probably hammer out a debugger using or/and gate equations. That wouldn't change the probability numbers, but it would be useful for testing whether the events actually fire or not, once one gets to a couple dozen or hundreds of variables and tree paths.

I suspect HOI3 and HOI4 has improved their capabilities on that front, notably because board like wargames crunch a lot of numbers, and they tend to be part of this infinite chart that goes up forever. There's also a lot of special rules, but CK2 is the same way, the ruleset is just on the wiki though.

One thing I remember from another Scandinavian esque company is CCP, creator of Eve Online. They are now revamping their old played owned star base code. The old code was written by someone or other, and they don't know how to modify it. Because the original programmer didn't leave the programming notes or explanations behind. So they're just scrapping the entire code base system and replacing it with something new, the Citadels and what not.

I thought that was kind of funny, how CCP gave individual programmers that amount of individual specialization. Looking at some of the CK 2 files with their individual programmer's notes attached, I can easily see how different they write the code, their own code that is.

 

[Aoki4444]

To be honest I don't like these RP DDs, I mean yes they're interesting and stuff, but usually I just want to open a DD and see a clear info on what we'll have and how it'll work. Just simple as that.
I dont mind having some of them from time to time, but every single DD? Please.

 

[Safehold]

I'm able to gleam just a tad more information from the RP dialogues, because it shows more of the personality of the writer and developer, and thus more of an insight into their design decisions and thought processes. The actual specs on stuff like FTL does need a data dump format, but when it comes to extracting information from subjects under interrogation, the writing in dialogue gives a few more glimpses.

Subjects like POP mechanics, benefits from analyzing and cracking through the developer's thought process, but that thought process is not revealed easily in a technical digest when they become focused on data dumping the actual mechanics and numbers out. Although we don't get much of the actual numbers, because they aren't final yet. If the developer in charge of the POP mechanics writes a story about it in verse, then their thought processes become exposed to analysis and interrogation protocols. Or in this case, textual analysis.

 

[D Inqu]

I suppose that seams reasonable, but what about the active Subterranean species, that are actively living underground? Why would they give two craps about the stuff going on top side.

Could also be that the undergrounds species always wanted to go to the surface but could not.

 

[Aoki4444]

I'm able to gleam just a tad more information from the RP dialogues, because it shows more of the personality of the writer and developer, and thus more of an insight into their design decisions and thought processes. The actual specs on stuff like FTL does need a data dump format, but when it comes to extracting information from subjects under interrogation, the writing in dialogue gives a few more glimpses.

Subjects like POP mechanics, benefits from analyzing and cracking through the developer's thought process, but that thought process is not revealed easily in a technical digest when they become focused on data dumping the actual mechanics and numbers out. Although we don't get much of the actual numbers, because they aren't final yet. If the developer in charge of the POP mechanics writes a story about it in verse, then their thought processes become exposed to analysis and interrogation protocols. Or in this case, textual analysis.

Well you see.. I don't mind them, it's just my wish, nothing more. It's just my preference - bare info without (IMO) redudant stuff.
Kind of just to show that you guys aren't alone and there're people who don't really like RP DDs.

 

[Safehold]

Well you see.. I don't mind them, it's just my wish, nothing more. It's just my preference - bare info without (IMO) redudant stuff.
Kind of just to show that you guys aren't alone and there're people who don't really like RP DDs.

Each developer and staff member seems to be in charge of a particular subject in the DDs, perhaps because they actually work on them and would know it best. So I doubt all of the DDs will be of the same style. Goose is Goose, but Henrik Fahraeus probably has a different style.

I address the point only to make my point that there is no need to worry that all the DDs will be of one style, RP or not.

Could also be that the undergrounds species always wanted to go to the surface but could not.

The last time they tried for the surface, Saitama punched them back in. Into the ground that is.

 

[D Inqu]

The last time they tried for the surface, Saitama punched them back in. Into the ground that is.

Or they were locked in underground and needed something to escape.

 

[DDA87]

Great DD again, looking forward to the game Galciv3 seemed to bore me pretty quick for some reason, I'm looking for civ4 in space and most spacegames boil down to build X, spam colony ships EVERYWHERE before the AI does and tech to laser and medium hulls Really hoping stellaris will be a true paradox game, like hoi3 or ck2.

 

[anomanderus]

"mharin kharin"? Weebs.

 

[Darkspysrival]

So where's the event that says "Matt Damon trapped on barren ice planet colony"?

 

[Metztli]

So where's the event that says "Matt Damon trapped on barren ice planet colony"?

Matt Damon likes to get trapped on red planets as well.

 

[Vieira151]

Ah, the Mankin have given unto us an offering! Truly, they now obey their superior Molluscoid overlords.

Are you a follower of the Greatfather, also? All Hail Mollusca!

 

[Kakafika]

Great read!

 

[zordrail]

looks great

 

[safe-keeper]

Lots of weird things can happen in space.