Stellaris Dev Diary #17 - Ship Designer

[Franconian]

Well I know someone that won't get a beta key

I like your kind of DD writing the best

 

[Aegrim]

I was NOT expecting to be able to pick different sections of the ship so that they look different. I was just expecting all humanoids to be flying the same looking ships, but now they may actually still look rather different.
I was also just expecting something simple similar to SOTS.

what FTL capability your ship has, so you may build some ships with warp and others with wormhole FTL. !

This confirms something we weren't sure of.

Is this to help deal with Federations of different FTL types?
What does it take to gain a new FTL type your self?


Oh, also can we pick our factions colour and does this show on the ships?

 

[Tim_Ward]

Strong weapons in a small fast and a lot cheaper ship was more efficient a solution.

In what universe are modern ships cheaper, adjusted for inflation, than battleship-era warships? The fleet the British sent east to assist the Americans towards the end of World War 2 is larger than the entire modern US Navy, and it itself was dwarfed by the US forces in the Pacific at the time. I mean, I know there was a war on but, even so. Modern weapons and systems are super expensive. It's also worth noting that modern ships are bloody huge compared to their WW1-WW2 era counterparts; we live in an area where several NATO navies can call 6000-10000 ton vessels "destroyers" with a straight face.

In fact, there are several critical advantages larger vehicles have over smaller ones:

• a larger ship is cheaper than an equivalent tonnage of smaller ships. Why? Because steel is cheap, but tech stuff is expensive. All the electronic and other high tech systems that are needed to make a warship (whether a fictional one in space or a real one on the sea) run - radar, life support, navigation computers, combat computers etc - have to be duplicated many times over for an equivalent fleet of smaller ships. Also, the ships FTL drives are liable to very expensive; imagine you're a warp based civilisation and you've got the choice between 10 frigates or 1 monster battleship the size of 10 frigates, well, that's 10 warp drives you need to buy vs 1 if you go for the former option.
• a larger ship has greater endurance, because it has more space to carry provisions and fuel and more space for the crew, making long deployments less psychologically taxing
• larger ships can hold larger weapons which can fire to greater effect over longer ranges than weapons carried by smaller ships; this was a consideration which is rendered irreverent in modern times with navel combat being dominated by the missile but might become relevant again in the future

That said, I do agree with your essential point is that there needs to be a role for smaller ships. That role should play to the strengths of smaller ships. If you go back to the 1 monster battleship vs 10 smaller ships comparison, you can see what the strength is: those 10 ships can be in 10 different places at once. Thus I hope we see some roles for warships beyond just combat such as reconnaissance, commerce protection, commerce raids, general patrolling and so forth to which fleets of smaller ships would be a preferable option.

 

[Tim_Ward]

Ships might still have limited operating range in the game, even if that range can't be modified for individual ship designs. You could have different techs that extend the range, and just assume that all ships of an empire/federation have that range.

I'd prefer it be on a per ship basis, because then you could design ships with high endurance for long range strikes/patrols and ships with low endurance for defence fleets.

But if that is indeed what they're going for I don't think I'd be too unhappy. Or unhappy at all, in fact.

 

[Teije]

This is shaping up quite nicely. Looks like a good amount of customization supported, without the too fiddly bits. So given the auto-design feature, should appeal both to those that prefer to let their engineers handle their ship designs and those who like to tinker.

The more I see of the UI style for Stellaris, the more I like it. Very clean, crisp and "spacey"...

 

[echo2361]

My question is are we limited to one ship design per hull size at a time? So we can only have one corvette design, one cruiser design, and so on? Or is there freedom to design, save, and build multiple types of the same hull? Maybe I want one cruiser filled with point defenses guns to act as an escort while another cruiser just has long-range missiles for fire support. Things like that. From the screenshots its hard to say if we can save multiple designs for the same hull sizes or not.

 

[TheDungen]

Let's see what I've picked up to respond to

"One of the basics is what FTL capability your ship has, so you may build some ships with warp and others with wormhole FTL. It is, however, only possible to have ships with the same type of FTL in the same fleet."

Earlier it sounded like you start with one FTL type, and then stick to it (with maybe the possibility to salvage ships with other), but does this mean that we will be able to build ships with all 3 types?

I approve of this change, it makes little sense for factions not to be able to learn the basics of each others FTL tech by salvaging their ships.

PLEASE, don't adopt Rock-Paper-Scissors system. It already killed combat mechanics of Endless Space and Galactic Civilizations. Shields countering lasers, ECM to missiles and armor to kinetics is a sure recipe for disaster. It looks fun but ALWAYS devolves to "check enemy, refit your fleet and crush him with hard counters"
Look at Mastr of Orion 2 mechanics - One Shield, One armor and various weapons with different effects and damage types. but you won't be franticly restart mid-game because AI researched hard counter to all your weapons

This cna be curcumvented by having less hard counters and makign refitting ships time consuming and expensive.
And I still prefer rock paper scizzors to CK2s retinue model where there is a single makeup of troops that is the best one. You basically to some extent have yo chose either it's some sot of rock paper sczzors or there will be some best build and not chosing it will be crippling yourself. I prefer the former, especially considering that tech development will be non linear.

sounds like fun. I have yet to see a single DD for this game that leaves me feeling disappointed. Keep up the good work!

edited to add: I like the "Star Breaker". What does that do?

Hopefully it doesn't actually break stars, if so I hope I can mod it out.

Fighters confirmed!

Yay!

Game was just started in a certain debug mode, so you can ignore the date

Would be nice if we can chose the starting date when we create a non human species (basically chosing how many years into whatever calandar they are using we are).

Aren't dreadnoughts the early model of Battleships, being named for the HMS Dreadnought? The distiguishing feature I think being speed and if they were built before or after WW1?

I dislike the word battleship, I prefer terms such as dreadnoughts, cruisers, heavy cruisers and so on. Ah this makes me think of Andromeda,

"Lieutenant, a bit of advice. You're on a cutter, I'm on a heavy cruiser. If you insist on pushing this, I could fire a warning shot across your bow. But frankly, the missile plume alone would probably rip you to pieces. So, it isn't all that bright for you to be making threats."

or

A Glorious Heritage class cruiser like the Andromeda could completely depopulate a world like Ne'Holland in under two minutes. More tea?

Well I know someone that won't get a beta key

I like the way you write... can I get a beta key?

You can upgrade your fleet to the latest design at your nearest spaceport

Meh boring, I would prefer tha you had to slowly and gradually replace your components, and then only if the new model has the same chassi as the new one. But again that will only work if the game is designed for you to have a fleet of at most a few hundred ships.

 

[RisingSun]

That screenshot look sexy, wondering how the space engagement will look like? Hoping it would be like CivIII, let it fight it out. Too bad CivIII didn't have leaders in it, depending on the leader skills, hardware as well tactics play a major role in engagement.

 

[stormblind]

PLEASE, don't adopt Rock-Paper-Scissors system. It already killed combat mechanics of Endless Space and Galactic Civilizations. Shields countering lasers, ECM to missiles and armor to kinetics is a sure recipe for disaster. It looks fun but ALWAYS devolves to "check enemy, refit your fleet and crush him with hard counters"
Look at Mastr of Orion 2 mechanics - One Shield, One armor and various weapons with different effects and damage types. but you won't be franticly restart mid-game because AI researched hard counter to all your weapons

Interestingly, I suspect that Endless Sky is the testing bed for a new form of space combat coming in Endless Space 2. Anti-Missile turrets for missiles, missiles, guns, and regular turrets, with just shields/armor/hull for defenses. I've played some of it, and it feels like a good system, honest issue is that it's basically always going to be easy to counter missiles with smart gameplay, or have missiles be broken (either weak enough you don't care, or strong enough that they murder you anyway)

 

[SolarGuy]

Meh boring, I would prefer tha you had to slowly and gradually replace your components, and then only if the new model has the same chassi as the new one. But again that will only work if the game is designed for you to have a fleet of at most a few hundred ships.

It's actually a quite good question. How many ships are we going to have, and are there size limits for fleets?

 

[Tapio]

I might let AI design my ships at first, but I think it's a great option to have if I want plenty of junky ships or a juggernaut.

 

[Soviet_Union]

What kind of a boring casual doesn't want to customize their ship?

 

[Galleblære]

PLEASE, don't adopt Rock-Paper-Scissors system. It already killed combat mechanics of Endless Space and Galactic Civilizations. Shields countering lasers, ECM to missiles and armor to kinetics is a sure recipe for disaster. It looks fun but ALWAYS devolves to "check enemy, refit your fleet and crush him with hard counters"
Look at Mastr of Orion 2 mechanics - One Shield, One armor and various weapons with different effects and damage types. but you won't be franticly restart mid-game because AI researched hard counter to all your weapons

Yeah I agree. Not to say that certain weapons shouldn't have a bonus against certain defenses, but there shouldn't be hard counters. I'd rather see that certain Empires are "inclined" towards certain technologies. I imagine Earth technology going the mass missile route, (Think Honorverse, Battlestar Galactica) unless the player really wants to pursue a different course.

If your Missile focused Earth Empire runs into evil aliens with excellent point defense systems? What do you do? Suddenly adopt beam weapons? Nah! Make BETTER missile weapons!

 

[Kikaider]

Love the ship designer, especially that the ship models themselves are so customizable, not just the modules in them. I wonder what type of customization options for ship aesthetics (colors, shape pools etc) will we be able to select from at the empire creation stage? On that note, could we have a peek at some of the other bases models/ship-styles (e.g., bonus screenshots pretty please)?

And

If your Missile focused Earth Empire runs into evil aliens with excellent point defense systems? What do you do? Suddenly adopt beam weapons? Nah! Make BETTER missile weapons!

I'd shoot for ECM that jams the tracking efficacy of the alien point defense systems personally, but thats just me

 

[Merlyn612]

Nice read! I've been silently stalking all of these. It makes me look forward to Mondays, that's no small thing.

 

[Galleblære]

And


I'd shoot for ECM that jams the tracking efficacy of the alien point defense systems personally, but thats just me

Sure, why not Point is that there shouldn't be a situation where your offensive weapons suddenly are worthless. And personally I hope game balance makes it hard to stay on top of multiple different offensive philosophies (ie, missile vs beam vs mass drivers/railguns vs whatever ) forcing you to invest in your chosen path. Changing path should be possible, but painful, IMO.

 

[kreissig]

There are reasons why real life battleships died out. Bigger was not better. Strong weapons in a small fast and a lot cheaper ship was more efficient a solution.

While I do agree with your premise about game mechanics, this is not really correct. Battleships became obsolete because aircraft developed to the point that they could obliterate a battleship. (As happened the the Yamato.) Incidentally...the biggest battleship ever built/completed. Also, modern carriers are larger than the battleships of old; so in some cases....bigger is better.

The US carrier fleet is the backbone of the US Navy's power abroad. Not only in terms of striking power, rapid response, or surprise; but in a very visual psychological way....to sailor and civilian alike.

 

[Safehold]

Game was just started in a certain debug mode, so you can ignore the date

Probably the omniscient Observe everything, unlock all techs, and spawn any ship mode.

The Small, Medium, and Large slots does remind me of Eve, as others have also mentioned.

The box slot layout, reminds me of Space Empires 3/4/5 though. A similar damage profile to having components being damaged in line with the 3d model. Unnecessary if there isn't a specific damage model like that.

As for the problem of designing and micro managing ship designs in 4x games, that's usually because the player is supposed to be at the logistics/strategic level, not the nose in the grindstone level of a programmer or artist. Spending more than 10 minutes in the design screen, when the new player does not know what the strategic or logistical constraints with production/war are, makes it difficult to make higher level decisions. Just pop some stuff in and experiment with it, but if that's the case, why not an auto build using the AI routines. Thus auto build is there. That's the reason. What really matters is practical combat experience, not learning all the abstract numbers in a design window. The sooner the player can get out of "ship design school", the better. They can always go back and act with more initiative, to fix issues in their designs.


As for the War DD, it's probably Henrik Fahraeus doing his tinkering with the code base and mechanics of diplomacy/war. He may have a few prototypes out and hasn't quite decided on which one feels best in gameplay, so he isn't willing to committ himself in a DD. That's my estimated cause at least.

 

[Biminis]

In the first picture it says -214 power. Why is it negative and what does it mean ?

 

[hewhoispale]

Hopefully it doesn't actually break stars, if so I hope I can mod it out.

Considering there's another one named "Soul Breaker", I think it is safe to assume that it is just a name.