Stellaris Dev Diary #174 - Federations is out, now what?

[Darkdiashi]

I’d like to see more “flavors” for Ethics. Maybe my Xenophobia is spurred by meeting hostile aliens, and not from actual Racism; more of an US vs THEM mentality, where my one trusted ally, or my Syncretic Evolution or my Synth Pops are included in US.

I’m thinking Policies for each ethic that alter their flavor and influence the mechanics. In the above example, one of the available policies would activate two things:
1) a political treaty to propagandize accepting an ally; only useable on someone you have maximum trust with, or a vassal or federation relationship, it would lessen the xenophobic penalties when engaging in diplomacy with them, and costs a HUGE amount of influence so you’re not doing it on a whim.
2) allow an empire species to “assimilate” into being, for the purposes of xenophobia, my own species, similar to how you have no penalties to finding your old empire with the lost colonies origin.
This way the primitives you conquered 200 years ago and have proven themselves loyal or the syncretic species that you’ve had essentially serving you for the last millennia can gradually become just another citizen or resident of the empire and not cause unrest with the population or encourage xenophilic ethics attraction.

Another option for the Xenophobic policy could be the reverse; even other empires of the same species could be declared OTHER and enable xenophobia against them.

Things like this could be added for all ethics: Materialists who hate AI for instance, like the fallen Empire, or authoritarians who like full citizenship for themselves but stratified for other species without the ethics shifting in unwanted ways.

By adding in specific ethic choices in Policies, it would add another layer of customization to them

 

[Methone]

Maybe my Xenophobia is spurred by meeting hostile aliens, and not from actual Racism; more of an US vs THEM mentality, where my one trusted ally, or my Syncretic Evolution or my Synth Pops are included in US.

That just sounds like being neutral on the Phobe-Phile access and setting rights for species normally. You don't have to be Xenophobic to discriminate.

 

[Gromit]

You are going to be releasing various hotfixes during April though right? There's a fair amount of bugs/issues that really do need attention and have been around way too long now. The undesirable robot rights bug has been knocking around for over a year now and factions appear to be broken yet again.

I personally would prefer if you did that than releasing one micro-patch and vanishing for at least a month to add new resolutions on space whales.

 

[PinionMan]

I know this isn't exactly about federations, but I would really like a new origin were the species was unified by one nation/person taking over the world by conquest. It would be really nice for roleplay, and would please a lot of WH40k fans.

 

[Pyzayt]

I know this isn't exactly about federations, but I would really like a new origin were the species was unified by one nation/person taking over the world by conquest. It would be really nice for roleplay, and would please a lot of WH40k fans.

Prosperous Unification fits this definition. It was a unification, and the new world order prospered as a result. There is specifically a pre-made empire with the story of world conquest using that origin.

 

[Builder117]

That's because they use unique systems. The same reason you can have only one empire starting in the Sol and Deneb systems.

I'm aware. I just think they should change it to either not use unique systems or allow multiple of the same unique systems per galaxy.

 

[Mitchz95]

1) More origins, and more love for existing origins! Lost Colony and Remnants seem the least developed; surely there's room for more dynamic events there?
2) Let Hive Minds and Machine Empires use the Void Dweller origins! The latter might be overpowered, since machines can normally colonize any planets regardless of habitability, but surely you can come up with a way around that.
3) Bugfixes! Lots and lots and lots of bugfixes!

 

[draqsko]

They uh, sometimes seem to work and others not so much. I've had a game run into 2375 with ethics attractions showing one thing, and actual distributions showing another. And then I had another where it was all fine. I need more data, since it's a random-ish process to say for sure - but it's really no fun having 35% of your pops being pacifists just because a pacifist faction spawned for no good reason whatsoever in your Militarist, Fanatic Authoritarian empire from the moment factions became a thing ... and allegedly only has 11% attraction but stubbornly sits at 35%+

The issue is happening right at the start, here's my bug report on it: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...hics-seem-to-be-an-issue-at-spawning.1365818/ Playing as UNE, Xenophobes literally started at over 20% of the population, with Xenophiles at 6% and even Egalitarians only at 28%. Soon as factions can form, I'll have a Xenophobe faction forming before I actually have a Xenophile faction forming despite my government being Fanatic Egalitarian/Xenophile. Heck it might even form before the Egalitarian faction if enough new pops spawn with Xenophobe ethic.

Based on discussions on reddit, this is happening to others and is observed happening to AI empires as well. And probably due to this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Stellaris/...patch_updated_for_federations_fixing/flitk6y/

Digging through the game code and trying to read the tea leaves, I found in the file "01_start_of_game_effects" that for general empires (non gestalt and non robot pops) that the pops are generated with the line "ethos = random". I have not been able to find the function "random" to see how it works, and it might just be a random number generator. I also haven't found where "ethos" gets modified, so I have no idea how that is controlled after the game starts.

The file "00_defines" has the controls for ethics shift, but it is set at a very low level, 2% per year, and another factor with 2% per month. Both controls have somewhat obscure language on when the will actually allow an ethics shift to happen. I have not been able to find the files that they touch to cause an ethics shift, either, so I am not sure how that is controlled.

I still haven't found anything that controls ethics on new spawning pops after the game has already started.

Without knowing what is going on under what I have found I can only make guesses, but it looks like they coded to start with all pops on a random ethic. They possibly intended for the ethics shift to correct for that over time, but ethics shift is so weak that we get super sized factions that ignore government ethics and other factors that should change results when a pop does shift.

Edit: Ping @klc123 to see this since you are also experiencing issues with ethics.

 

[Displacement]

Pro: I like most of the resolutions and I really like the voting system based on weight and ordering the resolutions based on support.

Con: -it doesn't feel intuitive how you are supposed to go about proposing new resolutions, in particular, which resolutions have been proposed and which haven't isn't very visually clear.
-I dislike constantly having new icons pop up in the upper right corner, and having to pay attention to the resolutions all the time while the GC is not in session. I would prefer there to be a "GC is about to meet" alert when I can deal with all the new resolutions and so on.
-it seems like the AI could be pickier about resolutions based on their diplomatic weight impact. It seems like they vote Yes on almost everything.

That's it from me. My take is that it's a smart, interesting system, but it needs some tuning and UI clarity!

 

[klingonadmiral]

It would be really nice for roleplay, and would please a lot of WH40k fans.

Militarist/Authoritarian/Xenophobe empire starting with either Remnants or Post-Apocalyptic fits the IoM during the Great Crusade to a T.

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As per what should be next, would be cool if Galactic Unions weren't literally worthless. There is no reason to ever form one.

 

[REJS7]

One QoL improvement that would be really awesome is if there was a one click button to change the status for all species in your empire, rather than manually having to go through each one and change them. I had over 40 different species in my last game, and when the Galactic rules shifted I had to manually change each one, which took over five minutes.

Pretty please.

 

[Averath]

Any plans to make it so that when a bill to revoke a current law doesn't require us to go find out what that law does?

Also, any plans to not tie QoL features to the Galactic Community? I.e. I don't want to have to rely on a mod for Automatic Resettlement, especially if the Galactic Community has no desire to pass the law that enables it.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

As per what should be next, would be cool if Galactic Unions weren't literally worthless. There is no reason to ever form one.

No idea what youreon about. Mine seemed to work great.

 

[DrNukeLear]

Thank you for all your hard work. I think fixes should take precedence over features, but I’m glad that you’re looking at expanding the features of the very wide expansion which seems a little shallow occasionally.

But on with the suggestions:

Juggernaut

It’s slower than my fleet, but I can tell it to follow my fleet at which point it lags around and could get ambushed.

Ideally I’d like my fleet to follow the Juggernaut, at which point they don’t follow, just sit there.

Minor Questions
Can it go a little faster?
Can FE’s get them?
Should Brood Queen’s be converted to Juggernauts?

Federations
Stop Federations being used to lock vassals into eternal servitude (prevents war declaration on the overlord).

Add an “Internal Matters” Law. Federation members DO NOT join machine uprisings and vassal secessions due to the poor management of our “friends”.

Favours
Limit favours to 5 per diplomatic action, but vary their value by the diplomatic action. Important things require more favours:

2 points per favour for defence pacts and federations.
4 points per favour for non aggression pacts.
5 for everything else.

Allow us to gain favours in seeking a white peace (value 2 per favour).

Allow us to give favours to sweeten the deal as well as call them in. “Dear X33 of the Mechanus Hive. Give us a research deal and we’ll owe you in the future.”

Allow us to counter-propose diplomatic actions we are the target of and agree on condition that we receive a given number of favours.

Traditions (surprise)

• Move Hegemony federation formation to Domination tradition completion.
• Move Trade League formation to Prosperity Tradition completion.
• Move research cooperative formation to the discovery tradition completion.
• Move martial alliance to formation to the supremacy traditions completion.

Diplomatic Actions

Add a new diplomatic action to support a hegemony member to break away (when he declares war to break away, his supporters join the way to help he secede).

Add a new diplomatic action to request access when borders are closed, if accepted this gives a 10 year truce forcing the border open as if war had just ceased (without the opinion penalty of a recent war). I would personally double the favour impact for this, because it’s something you want when you ask and it isn’t permanent.

Allow federations to support and guarantee independence (subject to a federation vote).

In the diplomacy interface, if an option requires a Federation vote, place the federation icon on the left hand side and colour the button Federation Menu blue (@Duuk, is that ok for colour blindness).

Allow Nations to join Federations or enter into a subject contract during war IF both parties are only involved in the same war, on the same side and only involved in the one war. This will actually let us replicate the story trailer.

Vassals

Improve vassal/overlord relation benefits vs hegemonies. It should be a choice as to which road to go down (obviously both is better).
I recommend transferring 5% of DW weight from vassal to overlord as well as 5% of naval capacity and an envoy. Play test and balance obv.

Galactic Council Resolutions

Resolution - Grand Navy Of The Galactic Republic
The community member with the highest DW becomes Federation Leader of the Grand Navy Of The Galactic Republic any who voted for the resolution join the federation and leave their existing federations. Those opposed to the resolution are offered the chance of joining a new federation “the separatists” and leave the galactic community.
Abstaining empires can pick a side OR stay neutral and stay in the galactic community. If you’re not a Member of the Grand Navy you are in breach of Galactic Law.

Crisis Focus - The Separatists
Forces even the neutral abstainers to open their borders to the Galactic Navy.

Resolution - Dissolve the Galactic Community
For when it’s broken and all the xenophiles are dead. Also allows reformation of the Galactic Community with no passed resolutions after 10 years.

Resolution - Ban Gateway Travel
All council members close their gateways.

Resolution - Close the L-Gates
All council members close their L-Gates. Gray Goo or Dessanu (if present) must be defeated first.

Resolution - Ban Jump Drives
If you have a jump drive you’re in breach, ditch those ships or refit.

Resolution - Ban Wormhole Travel
No wormhole access in council member territory, sorry.

Resolution - Ban Colossi
It’s a breach of Galactic Law.

Resolution - Galactic Highway Initiative
At least 1/5 of community members must have the gateway construction tech.
20% off gateways and 20% progress in the tech for anyone without it. Anyone who doesn’t build one in 50 years is in breach of Galactic Law.

Resolution - Ban Psionic Communing with The Shroud
It’s dangerous, stop talking to it. Maybe it’ll go away. Breaching the shroud is breaching Galactic Law.

Resolution - Ban Synthetic Beings
Robots are robots, people are people. If you have a sentient synthetic or Machine pop you are in breach, droids and robots are ok though.

Resolution - Mandatory migration treaties
Every council member automatically has migration treaties with all other council members. These allows empires who can’t have migration treaties to have them. Everyone also expends 1 influence per month.

Resolution - Ban migration treaties
No council members can have migration treaties. Breaching the Ban with a non-member or member is a breach of Galactic Law.

Resolution - Ban/Mandatory research treaties
As above, but research treaties.

Resolution - Ban/Mandatory commercial treaties
As above, but commercial treaties.

And lots for spiritualists and authoritarians.

In many legislative bodies, votes that are unanimous are essentially fast-tracked into passing. It would be nice if we could pass all those early votes that 90-100% of the galactic community are on board with. The drip feed of voting on uncontroversial things makes it a little slow. I would like to get to more of the interesting and contentious votes faster.

If proposers are over 60% of the total democratic weight of the community, no vote it necessary. Gives a margin of error for throwing Envoys in to get it over the line. Repeals always need a vote to confirm “the will of the council”.

I’m saying it again for good measure - make Envoys full characters, add Envoy events.

When you mouseover a "Repeal" resolution in the GC, it would be nice to be reminded what it was.

Absolutely.

Edit: sorry, I think this comment is longer than the dev diary.

 

[RabbaDooDabba]

@grekulf could we also get the option to pull envoys off an assignment without the need to re-assign them to something different (or have I run into some kind of bug where I only can re-assign envoys)?

 

[DanBeddow]

I have a great feature idea I think everyone can agree on for the next patch, add a match selection button to the species name and planet name screens that picks the corresponding name so I don't have to spend 9hrs clicking the random button to make it line up?

 

[ShadowDaPatriot]

a rework of the economy system for the "big" update would be nice, fix all the micromanaging and performance issues. I wised there is a mod out there that let people play on the old economic system with all-new features T_T

 

[Zeyon]

Not sure if it's already been mentioned, but I'd love to see changes regarding how new empires are invited into federations. It's infuriating trying someone who has the exact same ethics as everyone else in the federation but for some reason they flatout refuse to let them in.

 

[Zeyon]

Not sure if it's already been mentioned, but I'd love to see changes regarding how new empires are invited into federations. It's infuriating trying to invite someone who has the exact same ethics as everyone else in the federation but for some reason they flatout refuse to let them in

 

[Enviabletable42]

Im sure the PC players thank you for the great new expansion, new updates, road map for the new BIGGER update in may. WHAT ABOUT YOUR LOYAL CONSOLE PLAYERS WHO WAITED 7MO FOR A PROMISE OF AN UPDATE SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE?!