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Hi everyone!

Way back in Dev Diary 152, we discussed some planetary changes that we experimented with during summer 2019. At the time, we decided that while we learned a lot from the experiment, they required significant additional refinement before being something we wanted to incorporate into Stellaris.

Summer 2020 gave us the additional time we needed to revive these (and some other) experiments. Our primary objectives were to reduce the mid to late game micromanagement burden and provide quality of life improvements, including generally making the prebuilding of planets more viable, making planetary automation reliable enough to be trusted in the mid to late game, and making dealing with unemployment and pops easier.

We’ll be talking about these subjects in multiple dev diaries over the next couple of months.

Industrial Districts

Planet View Showing Industrial Districts

Azure Chalice is… er, was... a lovely place.

The planet view has shifted things around a bit and now supports the display of up to six district types. Most planets will have five district types available. This extra real estate could also be of special interest to modders.

The new brownish-orange district next to the City District is the revived Industrial District. Industrial Districts are treated as urban districts (and as such are not limited by planetary features), but rather than the Laborers that split their output from the original experiment, we’ve decided to have the districts provide regular empires one Artisan and one Metallurgist job. Gestalts have either two Foundry Drones or Fabricators as appropriate.

Industrial District tooltip (regular empire)

Work, work, work.

Factories and Foundries will still exist but are now planet unique, with the first tier building adding 2 jobs to the planet just like the old versions. The upgraded versions, however, will now add either 1 or 2 jobs of the appropriate type to each Industrial District on the planet.

Ecumenopoli will retain their specialized districts, but can be boosted by the Foundry or Factory buildings. The number of jobs per district on ecumenopoli have been adjusted somewhat as part of an overall economic balance pass. Since Industrial Districts are considered urban, a planet with a mix of City and Industrial Districts can be paved over and turned into an Ecumenopolis using the Arcology Project decision.

Since districts are now much more critical to the development of your civilization, the average size of homeworlds has been increased by 2, and as an additional side effect, the Mastery of Nature Ascension Perk may also become a bit more desirable.

Building Slots

I’m sure you’ve already noticed from the above screenshot, Building Slots no longer list population counts. Instead of relying on population, they're opened up by increasing the infrastructure of the planet. This is generally done by building City Districts (or their equivalent) or by upgrading the colony's Capital building. As a pleasant side effect of this, your buildings will no longer get ruined when a pop gets resettled, ritually killed, or eaten by mutants.
City District tooltip
Planetary Administration tooltip

Build up that infrastructure.

Two new technologies that unlock additional Building Slots have also been added, Ceramo-Metal Infrastructure and Durasteel Infrastructure. They represent the civilian adoption of military technology, and as such require some government techs and the associated armor technologies. The Adaptability tradition tree, for those that have it, still has a tech that grants a Building Slot as well.

As specialized and advanced worlds, Ecumenopoli, Ring Worlds, Hive Worlds, and Machine Worlds start with all of their building slots unlocked.

Habitats are intended to feel a bit cramped, so while Habitation Modules do not open up Building Slots, the Voidborne Ascension Perk will continue to grant two Building Slots to those that choose to embrace living in space.

The MegaCorps out there may ask “but what about our Branch Offices?” - we’ve got you covered.

Locked Branch Office building slot tooltip

Insider Trading. Institutionalized corruption exploited by the upper classes, or just greasing the wheels of trade?

Branch Offices will tie their slots to the level of the colony’s capital building. For example, a Planetary Administration building will grant one Branch Office Building Slot, a Planetary Capital will grant two, and a System Capital-Complex would grant three. If the target empire has the Insider Trading tradition, you’ll have one extra Branch Office Building Slot. (This may grant you a Branch Office building even on newly colonized worlds, if your business plan expects it to be profitable.)

But Why?

By decoupling the building unlocks from population growth, it makes it much easier to “prebuild” a planet to varying degrees. It removes some of the tedium of waiting for that last pop to finish growing before a slot unlocks, as well as the negative experience that occurred when a critical pop moved or died right at the wrong time. This change went through many iterations - in one of them the rural and industrial districts added "fractional" slots, in another the capital buildings gave more slots at each upgrade. The combination of having both City Districts and the Capital Building contributing to the slots, along with the additional techs, finally felt right. It's nice when even a newly founded Colony possesses at least one open building slot since it lets you immediately begin construction of a Spawning Pool or other high value building right away.

Moving the essential secondary resources of Consumer Goods and Alloys to districts frees up the building slots a little bit and creates a greater differentiation between heavily urbanized or industrial planets and resource generating colonies. Qualitatively we also felt that it "feels nice" to be getting more of your physical resources from the district level, leaving the Building Slots for more unique and specialized needs.

Both of these changes also happen to make some planetary automation decisions a little easier - your Tech Worlds should clearly build a mix of City and Industrial districts, for instance, to make room for Research Labs as well as to provide the Consumer Goods needed to pay for them. We do recognize that it may be difficult - or even impossible - to unlock all Building Slots on a planet that has not been urbanized, but those resource generating planets often do not have quite as strong a need for a large number of buildings.

Ideally in the mid to late game you could colonize a planet, set the colony designation you want for the planet, turn on automation, and reasonably expect the planet to be in decent shape - and doing what you told it to - the next time you look at it. (In the early game it's certainly possible, but your empire's economy may not be stable enough to support dedicated worlds and your colonies may be better off with direct caretaking.)

We have a few other experiments that are still ongoing that affect the relationship between urbanized vs. less developed planets that are not entirely conclusive yet. If they prove out we'll discuss them later on in this series of diaries. Our current plan for next week's diary is to talk more about the automated colony management overhaul as well as the automatic and manual resettlement of pops.

As a reminder, we have an ongoing feedback thread related to AI improvements we have in beta on the stellaris_test branch. We'd love to get more people on it and telling us what they think about them. (Please note that 2.8.1 is an optional beta patch. You have to manually opt in to access it. Go to your Steam library, right click on Stellaris -> Properties -> betas tab -> select "stellaris_test" branch.)

Thanks!
 
This is my opinion about it

Why the speculative dev diary #190 changes are not that good

1 - Mixed production districts are not the way to go
Having alloys and consumer goods in the same district is disleading and will make players have to manually deactivate the number of cg jobs they dont want to use, it has 0 sense

2 - It will be the final nail in the coffin to tall playstyles
If you focus on industry, you wont be able to get buildings, if you focus on menial neither, you need to make city districts to make buildings for research, etc, so if you have bad luck, or a few amount of planets, you are pretty much dead

3 - The new "building increases x district job" has no sense
Just that, why? It would be better to do it via planetary specialization, and either decide to go alloys, cg or RESEARCH in the planet

4 - Less buildings = less micro, but way less agency
It will kill a lot of mods, a lot of special buildings, etc and a lot of playstyles in vanilla, also near killing specialization

5 - It will foment rush strategies on mp, making mp a even more hostile environment
As planets would be even more valuable... and alloys "easier" to get without the building cap, things will get nasty, and fast.

6 - City districts are garbage
Forcing building slots to city districts is a really bad idea, nothing more to explain. No one makes city districts unless necessary, this will make planet managing tedious and counterproductive

7 - Maybe good for AI, but bad for players
Relearning how the system works and failing into some conceptual flaws will doom many players as this adds an apparent layer of complexity and tedious.

8 - IT will kill ANY economic mod or district mod
This is on the modding side as im terrified rn.

1 - for what i understood, they are going to make CG consumption way heavyer , so you may want to wait for the release to make this assumption, not based on 1 small size of the rework .

2- tall empires don't realy have planets to start with, you will aim for habitats, and with habitats you will have all the space you need .

3- its called sinergy , since they moved away from number of pop , they went for the infastructure sinergy . what were you thinking when there were 1 merchant evry 50 pops? why a building gave you 1 merchant ( upgrade of the shopping building) but then merchant can just come from nospace?

4- less building , but more space for special building , less need for forgey and CG building spam .

5- planets were always valuable , mp on a random generator require the thinking that things are not going to be fair and square .

6 - city districts do exatly what need to be doing , giving you space for pops . not sure why you think they are "garbage" , but this will give them some value , so they will be less "garbage" yes? or you think that since they are garbage evryone should just ignore them and remove it from the game?

7 - there will always be something to learn , new players will have to learn, and any change will require re-learning , even more if you min-max , ANY patch will destroy your usual build.

8- i try, but exept the work hours for the poor saint modders, i can't see the problem there , previous version will still use those mods, they will simply need to make new mods \ or the mods they made lose all the meaning for existing ( balancing , making it easyer, making AI work with them)


all in all, the only thing i'm kinda suspiscius of , is actualy point 1 , i'm not a fan of multiple production districts , even more since hive and machine empires will get the pure 1 resource out of it . but we have yet to see the whole picture .


This is the new way to specialize. It actually buffs those buildings a lot, and does allow for decent specialization. In an earlier reply, I pointed out that with just 2 fully upgraded foundries, and 6 districts (not a lot on most average worlds), you can get 24 jobs, equivalent to 3 fully upgraded buildings, but I messed up the math! Because those 24 jobs only account for the first foundry, it's actually 48 jobs. So, as I'll get to below you do want city districts.


"factories and Foundries will still exist but are now planet unique, with the first tier building adding 2 jobs to the planet just like the old versions. The upgraded versions, however, will now add either 1 or 2 jobs of the appropriate type to each Industrial District on the planet. "

you won't be able to build 2 foundries on 1 planet . but 1 industrial district will give you ( when at max upgrade of the foundry) 3 alloy job, 1 CG job and 2 housing . this mean you will have to balance the housing \ jobs on the planet , 1 city district will give you housing for your industrial district based on what job you want done ( if you are going to actualy use CG jobs , or not ) based on your tech\type .
 
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We'll talk a bit about dealing with overpopulation next week. (As well as a dedicated diary later, depending on how the other experiments go.)

This is great news. We all know that pretty much everyone is unhappy about how to deal with overpopulation, manual and automated resettlment and pop growth.

Lets be honest, "The Greater good" is simply a bandaid and never fixed the symptons, only the problem. The manual resettlement UI is a relic from pre 2.2 and doesn't fit into the game anymore.

Ideally, it should work this way in my opinion: If you have no more housing and no more jobs, pops automatically emigrate to different planets. This is already in the game, however it only works once you are deep in negative housing and unemployment. And at that point you are getting spammed by bad events and lose stability. Its not a way to play.

Something else that has been brought up many times is the "population controls" option. However, why should we want to stop popgrowth entirely? Pop growth is the way to win this game. So stopping all pop growth is a stupid idea. But how about a different solution? Population controls doesn't just set growth to zero. It converts all growth into emigration. Currently, a planet can only receive 5.0 pop growth from emigration, so your total growth coming from one planet, which is more than 5.0, would be spread between multiple planets and habitats.

To me, this sounds like the perfect solution. Now one may argue, "but what if you end up with too many pops and all the planets are filled?" From my own experience, I never had that happen. Ecumenopoleis and Ringworlds and Habitats can effectively house an infinite number of pops if you keep building them. And if you truly have no more room, well then you should build more habitats or conquer planets.

What do you think about this?
 
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haven't played stellaris since some month. Will the notification, when building queue is finished, return ? ( or better, automate it ... with strong doubts )
 
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This is already in the game, however it only works once you are deep in negative housing and unemployment. And at that point you are getting spammed by bad events and lose stability. Its not a way to play.
Actually, I think this is addressed in the 2.8.1 beta. There's some kind of 'minimum overcrowding' variable now, set to 5, that supposedly stops growth. So instead of '50%' overcrowding, it's a flat '5'. Haven't tested it yet, though.

Population controls doesn't just set growth to zero. It converts all growth into emigration. Currently, a planet can only receive 5.0 pop growth from emigration, so your total growth would be spread between multiple planets and habitats.
Hopefully this is addressed. I brought up to 'It gives emigration, but 95% of 0 is 0' thing earlier in the thread, but no response. That's kinda worrying on my end...
 
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Some of the details of this change are quite concerning to me.

There seems to be less options to specialize on the production. When playing a military oriented empire my ration of alloys:consumer goods often is as large as 5:1 (so the ratio of metallurgists to artisans is 10:1) and when trying to peacefully tech-up the ratio is heavily skewed in the opposite direction.

With a new system the only way to skew your production seems to be empire-wide economic policy (welcome change, I guess), but I am afraid they won't be able to cover the discrepancy so the proper way to skew your production further would be overbuilding districts and manually disabling the jobs. This sounds as it is more micro-heavy AND it's also quite inconvenient for AI (AI can't really "disable" jobs, at best you can switch the weight, but then you will end up with 0 artisans instead of small amount of artisans). In contrast in old system it was possible to make AI have different priorities in a modded game with some of them focusing on alloys and some of them teching up. If the intention was to force players and AIs have about the same science/alloy priorities that sounds like quite a big loss of diversity.

Next, I am not quite understanding how do we make science? If it requires a spammable research building I feel like planets will feel homogeneous because of it. It is probably a topic of the next diary, so I don't expect to hear an answer. If there is no way to get a lot of scientists I feel like it may become quite easy to overproduce goods. And vice versa, if you need too much consumer goods for your science it will be easy to have no alloy sink. Playing pacifists with capped alloys won't feel too good, especially without access to Utopia DLC.

I know that it seems as the system can still be tweaked, I hope something will be done to the necessity of disabling jobs, especially with long demotion times it is a sourse of pain and micromanagement. Honestly I wonder if it wouldn't be better to coalesce artisans and metallurgists into one "factory worker" job and then have foundry/factory add a flat boost to each factory worker (make basic worker create 1 alloys and 2 goods for 4 minerals, have t1 foundry add 10 mineral upkeep and 3 alloy production to each worker). If you make factories and foundries be incompatible (so only one industrial building per planet) you can still let player specialise while not forcing them to disable jobs and overbuild districts.
 
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Currently there's a consumer goods planetary designation, and an alloy designation. However, with this new redesign, it feels like the most efficient thing on conventional planets would be to have one planet do both. Are the designations going to get changed to fit this, with single resource being reserved for ecumenopoli and ring worlds?
 
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I'm so happy about this dev diary, I really like this new "direction" of Stellaris development. I can't wait to see the results of you others experiments guys! Keep up the great work!
 
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So... Habitats now only have 1 building slot without Voidborne? If pops don't give them and housing doesn't give them, then they can't get any?
 
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I'm concerned about the large gap of strategic resources upkeep for industrial districts and other buildings / ecumenopolis districts.

---
Upgradable Unique vs Repeatable buildings
With the commented changes:
- Motes are only used in unique upkeep (foundry, mineral hubs, food processing) so less quantities are needed
- Crystals and gases have more spread uses, but the main drain will be on research with gases

Maybe this is something good to balance tech research speed (it's a problem mentioned in the forums) while leting players expand their economies and fleet size.

---
Regular industrial vs Ecumenopolis
I find strange that now the upkeep is constant (2 for upgraded foundry) in regular worlds and scales per district (2 per district) in ecumenopolis. In terms of district numbers ecumenopolis are more efficient in terms of space (probably by using the strategic resource) but I feel "improving" 1 regular district should not cost the same as "improving" 10 regular districts.

Maybe they could add a small extra upkeep on the districts? I know this makes that more confusing...

---
What are your thoughts?
 
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well, thats your desicion, and its fine for me

In fairness it is a rather hard lump of text to read - I feel some kind of spacing (more paragraphs or something?) wouldn't be a bad idea?
 
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There are fewer building slots with this system, so it's nice if they have a strong impact when you build them.
I was wondering about this, will there be any changes to Synthetic Gas/Mote/Crystal buildings?
e.g. increased output per building​
or maybe some option to get +1 Mote OR Gas OR Crystal from each miner job (or add Synthetic chemist/refinery jobs to mining districts) on a world if you build some special [mutually exclusive] Gas OR Mote OR Crystal building?​

Synthetic strategic resources are probably going to be the only other thing I need to heavily spam in building slots, late game, now that Alloys/CGs are going into districts
 
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What does this mean for amenities on habitats? Particularly for Gestalt empires it's currently difficult to generate them from districts: you get far less maintenance drone jobs per districts on habitats (2 jobs per habitation district) than you do on planets (3 to 4 jobs per hive/nexus district). So buildings become essential to have viable habitats as Gestalt empires.

Are you also looking into that with this change?
 
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Regarding the cg/alloy ratio: I think I will actually end up needing all these consumer goods. Since there is no longer a restriction on building slots based on pops, you can immediately tech-rush, and since you get alloys and cg from districts now, there is no reason not to spam research labs on every single one of your planets.
 
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Thanks for this DD. This is the first time I'm starting to feel more upbeat about the future of Stellaris since Federations dropped.
 
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So, Planetary Features unlock Districts, and Districts unlock and are improved by Buildings.

Then, WHY are these three elements completely separate elements in the UI instead of being combined into a single, intuitive interface? You could even include the pops as well. You literally already had this figured out before 2.2 messed it all up! Something like this:

View attachment 649899

It's such obviously faulty design to have all that planetary feature art locked behind a button you rarely click. Just learn from the past.

Pops on top of buildings on top of districts on top of terrain is how other games like Civilization do it too - it's proven and intuitive. If it gets too messy, just make one of the elements(pops) separate and keep the remaining three.

I don’t know why, but the Cthulhu alien with the top hat cracks me up! :D
 
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