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Hi everyone!

Way back in Dev Diary 152, we discussed some planetary changes that we experimented with during summer 2019. At the time, we decided that while we learned a lot from the experiment, they required significant additional refinement before being something we wanted to incorporate into Stellaris.

Summer 2020 gave us the additional time we needed to revive these (and some other) experiments. Our primary objectives were to reduce the mid to late game micromanagement burden and provide quality of life improvements, including generally making the prebuilding of planets more viable, making planetary automation reliable enough to be trusted in the mid to late game, and making dealing with unemployment and pops easier.

We’ll be talking about these subjects in multiple dev diaries over the next couple of months.

Industrial Districts

Planet View Showing Industrial Districts

Azure Chalice is… er, was... a lovely place.

The planet view has shifted things around a bit and now supports the display of up to six district types. Most planets will have five district types available. This extra real estate could also be of special interest to modders.

The new brownish-orange district next to the City District is the revived Industrial District. Industrial Districts are treated as urban districts (and as such are not limited by planetary features), but rather than the Laborers that split their output from the original experiment, we’ve decided to have the districts provide regular empires one Artisan and one Metallurgist job. Gestalts have either two Foundry Drones or Fabricators as appropriate.

Industrial District tooltip (regular empire)

Work, work, work.

Factories and Foundries will still exist but are now planet unique, with the first tier building adding 2 jobs to the planet just like the old versions. The upgraded versions, however, will now add either 1 or 2 jobs of the appropriate type to each Industrial District on the planet.

Ecumenopoli will retain their specialized districts, but can be boosted by the Foundry or Factory buildings. The number of jobs per district on ecumenopoli have been adjusted somewhat as part of an overall economic balance pass. Since Industrial Districts are considered urban, a planet with a mix of City and Industrial Districts can be paved over and turned into an Ecumenopolis using the Arcology Project decision.

Since districts are now much more critical to the development of your civilization, the average size of homeworlds has been increased by 2, and as an additional side effect, the Mastery of Nature Ascension Perk may also become a bit more desirable.

Building Slots

I’m sure you’ve already noticed from the above screenshot, Building Slots no longer list population counts. Instead of relying on population, they're opened up by increasing the infrastructure of the planet. This is generally done by building City Districts (or their equivalent) or by upgrading the colony's Capital building. As a pleasant side effect of this, your buildings will no longer get ruined when a pop gets resettled, ritually killed, or eaten by mutants.
City District tooltip
Planetary Administration tooltip

Build up that infrastructure.

Two new technologies that unlock additional Building Slots have also been added, Ceramo-Metal Infrastructure and Durasteel Infrastructure. They represent the civilian adoption of military technology, and as such require some government techs and the associated armor technologies. The Adaptability tradition tree, for those that have it, still has a tech that grants a Building Slot as well.

As specialized and advanced worlds, Ecumenopoli, Ring Worlds, Hive Worlds, and Machine Worlds start with all of their building slots unlocked.

Habitats are intended to feel a bit cramped, so while Habitation Modules do not open up Building Slots, the Voidborne Ascension Perk will continue to grant two Building Slots to those that choose to embrace living in space.

The MegaCorps out there may ask “but what about our Branch Offices?” - we’ve got you covered.

Locked Branch Office building slot tooltip

Insider Trading. Institutionalized corruption exploited by the upper classes, or just greasing the wheels of trade?

Branch Offices will tie their slots to the level of the colony’s capital building. For example, a Planetary Administration building will grant one Branch Office Building Slot, a Planetary Capital will grant two, and a System Capital-Complex would grant three. If the target empire has the Insider Trading tradition, you’ll have one extra Branch Office Building Slot. (This may grant you a Branch Office building even on newly colonized worlds, if your business plan expects it to be profitable.)

But Why?

By decoupling the building unlocks from population growth, it makes it much easier to “prebuild” a planet to varying degrees. It removes some of the tedium of waiting for that last pop to finish growing before a slot unlocks, as well as the negative experience that occurred when a critical pop moved or died right at the wrong time. This change went through many iterations - in one of them the rural and industrial districts added "fractional" slots, in another the capital buildings gave more slots at each upgrade. The combination of having both City Districts and the Capital Building contributing to the slots, along with the additional techs, finally felt right. It's nice when even a newly founded Colony possesses at least one open building slot since it lets you immediately begin construction of a Spawning Pool or other high value building right away.

Moving the essential secondary resources of Consumer Goods and Alloys to districts frees up the building slots a little bit and creates a greater differentiation between heavily urbanized or industrial planets and resource generating colonies. Qualitatively we also felt that it "feels nice" to be getting more of your physical resources from the district level, leaving the Building Slots for more unique and specialized needs.

Both of these changes also happen to make some planetary automation decisions a little easier - your Tech Worlds should clearly build a mix of City and Industrial districts, for instance, to make room for Research Labs as well as to provide the Consumer Goods needed to pay for them. We do recognize that it may be difficult - or even impossible - to unlock all Building Slots on a planet that has not been urbanized, but those resource generating planets often do not have quite as strong a need for a large number of buildings.

Ideally in the mid to late game you could colonize a planet, set the colony designation you want for the planet, turn on automation, and reasonably expect the planet to be in decent shape - and doing what you told it to - the next time you look at it. (In the early game it's certainly possible, but your empire's economy may not be stable enough to support dedicated worlds and your colonies may be better off with direct caretaking.)

We have a few other experiments that are still ongoing that affect the relationship between urbanized vs. less developed planets that are not entirely conclusive yet. If they prove out we'll discuss them later on in this series of diaries. Our current plan for next week's diary is to talk more about the automated colony management overhaul as well as the automatic and manual resettlement of pops.

As a reminder, we have an ongoing feedback thread related to AI improvements we have in beta on the stellaris_test branch. We'd love to get more people on it and telling us what they think about them. (Please note that 2.8.1 is an optional beta patch. You have to manually opt in to access it. Go to your Steam library, right click on Stellaris -> Properties -> betas tab -> select "stellaris_test" branch.)

Thanks!
 
We don't know for a fact whether the capital will require pops, but there was no mention of that system changing, so I would expect it hasn't.

Apologies if this was brought up already in the thread, but what changed from 2.0 until now?

The lead designer among other things.
 
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One thing about this that I have been thinking about is what happens to the relative power of
  • Ecumenopoleis
  • Machine Worlds
  • Hive Worlds
If only the urban arcology grants the extra building slot, this will be absolute hell because you will be leaving a lot of specialization on the table. The industrial district will not really eat into the power of Forge Arcologies, though - 4 metallurgists vs 12 per district isn't even in the same ballpark. It may be worth considering the strategic resource upkeep on those districts, though.
(Overall I endorse the industrial district and building slot change!!)

Machine and hive worlds currently have incredible economic power because they can throw down tons of mines in the district slots and tons of foundries in the building slots. Needing a dozen city districts to be able to use buildings drastically cuts into the "unrestricted resource districts" aspect of developed machine/hive worlds. That may or may not be a good thing, just pointing it out.

Further, Hive Worlds currently have a special little perk where hive districts on them are basically twice as effective at giving housing and maintenance jobs. If that was put in so that Hive Worlds needed half the usual city districts, then perhaps they should grant an extra building slot.
Or these special planet classes could have all their building slots unlocked by default/more easily. Perhaps any Arcology district gives a slot, for example. It's an idea. I mean you have total control of every inch of the planet when you do this.

Both Ecumenopoli and ring worlds have every building slot unlocked automatically. The devs also speculated that the bonus metallurgist/artisan per district buildings would give more for arcologies, probably 2 or 3 per level. We'll likely find out later on.

Hive worlds and Machine worlds we have no clue how they will work with the new system. While ideally I'd see them with a complete overhaul and unique districts, I could also see just keeping them as is, with maybe the "all slots unlocked" as a minor bonus. Hive and Machine worlds also have all slots unlocked, but I'd really like to see them getting an overhaul with some unique districts.

Apologies if this was brought up already in the thread, but what changed from 2.0 until now? In the dev diaries leading up to 2.0 they specifically talked about having buildings tied to an infrastructure mechanic, where you built city (and to a lesser extent other) districts in order to unlock slots. Iirc they scrapped that plan because it just led to players carpet bombing planets with development, so that there was no meaningful distinction between frontier worlds and core planets.

Purely out of curiosity, did something about that original logic change?

Infrastructure didn't just unlock building slots, but also gave more jobs per building. So you'd be encourage to build up more cities rather than more labs. While this system may end up with some amount of overbuilding cities, without the exponential scaling it shouldn't be anywhere near as big.

You didn't answer my question. Do we know if upgrading the Capitol building will require Pops? Because yeah, it would be less doable than just building city districts, and to re-iterate my point: How is this a good thing?

Seriously, if we can build another extra research lab earlygame just because we built one City district, how is that even remotely balanced?

Capital Buildings still require pops. And the reason this is balanced is that everyone can just build a city district and get another lab. Early game will be about balancing how many resources you are getting in, rather than assigning your few precious build slots. What strategy or tactic do you think would be overly powerful and make things unbalanced?
 
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Both Ecumenopoli and ring worlds have every building slot unlocked automatically. The devs also speculated that the bonus metallurgist/artisan per district buildings would give more for arcologies, probably 2 or 3 per level. We'll likely find out later on.

Hive worlds and Machine worlds we have no clue how they will work with the new system. While ideally I'd see them with a complete overhaul and unique districts, I could also see just keeping them as is, with maybe the "all slots unlocked" as a minor bonus.

If i understood correctly, Machine Worlds and Hive Worlds also unlock all Building slots.
 
Everything after just gives them cheat resources because Paradox and Firaxis apparently can't do what plenty other devs do just fine, make AI that's competent.
I'm curious: which conventional 4X game has an AI good enough that its higher difficulty settings consist entirely of switching on more of the AI's brain?
 
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I could implement a better-designed solution even if I did so through only Charades.
How long until your game is released? Clearly you know what you're doing, and are willing to denigrate the devs to make your point, so you should be capable of making something better.
 
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So.... with Building rework You will free immigration limit (because 5 is not much...), and allow pops to migrate from planets where pops are not growing (for example: because of overcrowding) so they will decline on this one, and grow faster in other planets in effect?
 
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While there are positive aspects with this direction of development, its only solving some problems, not others, and potentially creating new ones. Would be much better to come to a more consistent definition of what a planet is, and how to develop one, than this inconsistent mishmash of buildings and districts, that changes depending on whether the planet type is a habitats, ecumenopolis, ringworld?

I can see the concept, but its a half-baked idea. Doesn't properly consider commercial or research districts, and gets confused when you switch planet types.


I would strongly suggest PDS goes back to first principals on this one.

You have 4 building types:
  1. Primary resource buildings - Rural Districts - Food, minerals, energy. (includes housing)
  2. Secondary and Tertiary resource buildings = Industrial Districts - Alloys, CG - foundries, factories, labs, amenities, unity, (does not include housing).
  3. Modifier buildings - Capital, Refineries, institutes, energy hubs, planetary uniques. (does not include housing)
  4. Urban buildings - Housing.

Therefore, its logical to have FOUR district types, and just do entirely away with the distinction between buildings and districts. Rather add the two together and re-imagine planet sizes. Planet size should probably be in the range 30-40 (it effectively is this size anyway). I wouldn't worry about the distinction between secondary and tertiary resources. The more important point is that you allocate a fraction of your planet (a district) to producing it.


A planet (any size) could potentially look like this:
UrbanTertiary (Modifiers, uniques)Secondary (Processed Resources)Primary Resources
0 (max = planet size)1 (max 8)0 (max 16)0 (max 24)
Allowed buildings:
- housing
Allowed buildings:
- Capital
- energy grid
- food processor
- mineral refinery
- research institutue, ministry of production
- galactic exchange
- shields, fortresses, military academy, etc.
Allowed buildings:
- foundry
- factory
- lab
- commercial
- amenities
- unity
- rare resource processors
Allowed buildings:
- farm
- mine
- generator
modifies primary or secondary districts (increased number of jobs).

Requires rare resources to upgrade.
fixed number of jobs.
buildings are not upgradable.
fixed number of jobs.
buildings are not upgradable.

Its still impossible to build everything on a size 30 planet (you'd have to sacrifice one or the other type of district). A Size 40 planet would be more flexible, but still not offer you the ability to build 'everything'.

The pre-requisite for an ECU would then be any fully developed planet that excludes primary (rural) districts. The Ecu itself would only allow enhanced versions of the Urban, Tertiary, Secondary districts (more jobs per district).

Specifically for Primary/Rural buildings - the choice as to what to build could be based on the planet modifiers. A planet with large modifiers to agricultural output would encourage building of farms. Nothing stops you from filling a planet poor in mineral resources with mines either, your output would just suck.
 
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Performance wise, the game would do better across the board if there were less pops in the galaxy.
 
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Edit - Or, perhaps even better, use it for planetary uniques so that some planets can become truly essential holdings.
I like this idea. I think many planetary features like betharian, crystal mines, etc. could work this way. The feature would enable a special district type that gives these special jobs, therby allowing you to invest in getting more out of the feature and as you say making them feel really unique. Instead of mining planet #17, you would have the betharian planet, the crystal planet, etc.

For most of these special districts, I would start at 1 job per district, but each job would have a high output so you start off getting a good bang for your buck. In some (most?) cases you could have the first district free/pre-built. For certain things like the three strategic resources, extra instances would instead translate to extra jobs per district. So if you have two gas field features, your special gas refinery district would have two jobs.
 
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Now that I've thought about what modding I'll do with this...

Betharian power plant provides extra technicians per generator district.

The 3 SR buildings do it with mining districts.

Will probably change the Forge and Factory to increase the Industry District Mote and Crystal upkeep, or maybe add it to the jobs.

And I think that thing about buildings only being for special planetside stuff will be on the list too. Move Unity/Science over to a district as well.

I also liked that suggestion about having hydroponics farms give a farmer job per city district, will need to try that out.
 
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Apologies if this was brought up already in the thread, but what changed from 2.0 until now? In the dev diaries leading up to 2.0 they specifically talked about having buildings tied to an infrastructure mechanic, where you built city (and to a lesser extent other) districts in order to unlock slots. Iirc they scrapped that plan because it just led to players carpet bombing planets with development, so that there was no meaningful distinction between frontier worlds and core planets.

Purely out of curiosity, did something about that original logic change?
I believe it was determined that logic was Not Fun and just increased micromanagement. 2.0 broke the economy so hard under some very seriously flawed game design. This DD is suggesting that by the time 3.0 rolls around we'll be at a happy place between 1.9 and 2.2's level of economy working.
 
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I mentioned the planetary designations needing work before but the buildings all need work too.
If Resource Silos are ever to compete on equal footing with an Energy Nexus adding Technicians or a super Alloy Nano-Plants adding massive numbers of Metallurgist jobs they either need to add a lot of jobs (which doesn't always make sense) or introduce new mechanics to make them interesting. Preferably mechanics that scale with planet size/districts or with pop count so they aren't left in the dust as the game progresses.

Any of the following would make unpopular buildings more viable: growth speed, upkeep reduction, habitability, extra jobs per district, job output, job throughput, amenities, crime, housing, bonus districts, modified or new mechanics, district swaps, job swaps.

Bio-Reactor
Current +20 energy for -25 food can't really compete with a building that adds +25 Technicians... it can barely compete with +1 Technician and can actually sometimes be worse than just selling the food on the market or to AI empires... which is sad. One suggestion that doesn't add any jobs:
1. Add 10% Energy Upkeep cost reduction (normal organic waste products are used for power)
A 10% reduction to a large fully developed world would only add around 5 energy each from districts and buildings (0.1*25*2), (0.1*12*5) but potentially 30+ from pops (0.1*300) for a small amount of scaling into the late game.
2. Convert a portion of planetary energy upkeep to food upkeep
This effect could scale from 0% up to 100% of planetary energy upkeep converted to food upkeep when one of the following is true: +1000 food per month, above 50% food stockpile, energy deficit. (Any way for the building to dynamically ramp-up to meet the food surplus and energy demands)
3. Building is deactivated at 0 positive food (so you can't use it with a food deficit, or cause a deficit by building one)

Resource Silos
Current +2 Clerks doesn't compete favourably with... anything.
But the idea of resources being "safely kept" in secure local facilities should be quite beneficial, reducing lost output from shortages/blockades/devastation/piracy/crime as well as increasing the efficiency and throughput of buildings in general as they minimize input delays (imagine the delay introduced by shipping spare parts from 30 light-years away). Buff that doesn't add extra jobs:
1. Increases throughput of buildings: +10% job upkeep AND base output of industrial/refinery jobs. Effectively adds +10% extra jobs without the normal costs of those jobs (pops, food, CG, amenities, crime). The throughput bonus doesn't have to be large to be powerful.
2. (Minor) Add +20 Piracy Protection to system, -10 crime locally (a small but thematic bonus, the supplies are secure rather than being unsecured easy targets for criminals)
3. (Minor) Add -50% effects from Devastation/shortages (a small situational bonus but it would make sense if the silos in some way delayed or offset the normal penalties for a planet lacking the raw materials it needs to function - though the current deficit penalties are a joke and need fixing to stop exploits like machines not producing energy)
4. (Minor) Adds resource storage effect to each district type - food for food, minerals for minerals, energy for energy, alloys and CG for industrial, rare resource for refineries in addition to other effects. It is possibly needlessly complicated but it makes more sense for farms to store food (and to lose access to that stockpile when blockaded) than it does for a tiny backwater planet storing an empires ransom in dark matter next to a hundred years worth of canned goods and 10 unused colony ships worth of luxury goods - larger worlds would have larger and more thematic effect on total resource storage)

Betharian Power Plant
I like Betharian power in the current game, but to compete with +25 Technicians they need a little love to be built first and always.
1. Convert Technicians from Energy districts to Betharian Technicians with increased output (get more base output from each job).

Alien Zoo
1. Adds Xeno-Keeper jobs to agricultural districts (Zookeepers providing amenities instead of entertainers. But not quite as good as the precursor version)
2. Adds Xeno-Researcher jobs to City districts (for Culture research, but not as generic as culture workers)

Planetary Shield Generator
1. Adds some Shield Technician jobs (Physics research for energy upkeep)
2. +10% Habitability (weather control and geoengineering as peacetime uses of massive planetary-scale shields)


Also... I wonder if it's worth experimenting to see if it would feel better to have a single unified system rather than several different mechanics for the production of primary, secondary and tertiary resources. i.e. if you have to spam something, spam districts for it. If you need to think carefully before building or upgrading as there's a large cost/downside then use buildings. If a building is currently spammed and has no large costs or downsides see if it's worth making them into districts instead.
 
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I believe it was determined that logic was Not Fun and just increased micromanagement. 2.0 broke the economy so hard under some very seriously flawed game design. This DD is suggesting that by the time 3.0 rolls around we'll be at a happy place between 1.9 and 2.2's level of economy working.

Fair enough. And no argument from me on 2.0. The way I've put it in other threads is that it feels like Stellaris is playing two completely different games at once, with half the mechanics being from the 1.x era and half of them from the 2.x era. Often it feels like the 1.x and 2.x mechanics interact poorly, if they interact at all, so you end up with a lot of broken systems.

The economy is definitely one of those areas. I don't think it needs a redesign so much as a top-to-bottom cleanup. More than anything else, costs need to be aligned with income. Stellaris assumes that the player will make most of their decisions based around economic forces (which includes intangible resources like unity, influence and research). And I'd be here for that. Fighting over access to vital strategic resources; making crucial decisions on whether to grow my empire into an industrial (alloy), technological (research) or spiritual (unity) powerhouse, these would make for terrific gameplay. But right now resources pour in so fast that costs become trivial in the face of income, which leaves nothing to fight or negotiate over.

While I'd also love a politics update, an inter-empire trade update and a chance to revisit basic diplomacy, I hope you're right and the immediate next step is full fix for the economy.
 
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I believe it was determined that logic was Not Fun and just increased micromanagement. 2.0 broke the economy so hard under some very seriously flawed game design. This DD is suggesting that by the time 3.0 rolls around we'll be at a happy place between 1.9 and 2.2's level of economy working.

What exactly broke 2.0? Wanst 2.2 with Megacorp the reweork which broke everything? 2.0 removed the the different FTL types, which broke the military AI (including the crisis), but not to the point what we had after 2.6... which broke even regular empires to on existence.
 
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Both Ecumenopoli and ring worlds have every building slot unlocked automatically. The devs also speculated that the bonus metallurgist/artisan per district buildings would give more for arcologies, probably 2 or 3 per level. We'll likely find out later on.
Hive and Machine worlds also have all slots unlocked, but I'd really like to see them getting an overhaul with some unique districts
I missed that detail in the 27 pages I was scanning. Thanks for pointing it out.
Makes logical sense. (Also a great way to maximize small planets you sometimes get - eg a size 10 world can get the full suite of buildings by making it an arcology/machine /hive world.)
 
What exactly broke 2.0? Wanst 2.2 with Megacorp the reweork which broke everything? 2.0 removed the the different FTL types, which broke the military AI (including the crisis), but not to the point what we had after 2.6... which broke even regular empires to on existence.
Yes, people sometimes confuse 2.0 and 2.2, since 2.2 really was the beginning of "Stellaris II".