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Stellaris Dev Diary #194: Intel

Hello everyone!

Last week we started talking about some of the changes we’re making to establishing first contact, and as promised, today we will continue talking about how you can learn more about alien empires.

All of the things we are talking about today is work in progress and may not accurately reflect the finished product. That said, we still want to hear your thoughts and read your feedback!

Background
It always felt like there was so much missing potential when it came to learning more about alien civilizations in the game. We didn’t like that you had so much information as soon as you established communication with an alien empire – all of their borders would be revealed, and the diplomatic window would reveal most of the other information. We aim to change a lot of that.

We want alien civilizations to feel more mysterious and unknown. We want the experience of learning more about alien empires to be an equally important and fun aspect of exploration.

Fog of War
As we briefly showed last week, we are making some changes to fog of war, and what type of information you will be getting about other empires.

You will no longer see all of the systems and borders occupied by the empire you have recently contacted, but it will now instead be tied to how much Intel you have. This really makes alien empires feel way more mysterious, which is something that we really like.

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The information on the empire to the galactic south-east is very limited. We can see their homeworld and the borders explored by our science ship.

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The galaxy as seen from the yellow empire in the top-right. There are a bunch of empires that we know very little about, and there are still more that are undiscovered.

Intel
Like mentioned above, our primary objective is to make alien empires feel more mysterious and unknown. We wanted to hide information and allow you to learn more about other empires as you gain more Intel on them. Our goal is to make the Intel game a part of the exploration aspect of Stellaris.

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An alien empire recently established communications with us. Friends..?

Let’s take a look at how we have designed the Intel game to work.

First off there is Intel, which is a value between 0 and 100. You have a current Intel value, and you have a “target” Intel value, up to which it can grow. You usually have an Intel floor, which is the lowest value it can be, depending on a couple of factors such as:
  • Diplomatic Pacts (Research Agreements, Commercial Pacts etc.)
  • Trust
  • REDACTED (doesn’t look like anything to you)

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Depending on things like diplomatic pacts, trust or other things, your Intel will grow over time.

Intel Categories
Information is split between different Intel Categories, such as Government, Military, Diplomatic, Economic, Technology. Categories can have different Intel Levels as well, ranging from None to Full. The Intel categories and their levels are what determines what information you have access to. Here are some examples:
  • Low Government Intel (Intel: 10) would reveal basic things like empire name, authority, ethics, capital location.
  • Low Military Intel (Intel: 40) would reveal starbases and relative military power.
  • Medium Government Intel (Intel: 40) would reveal civics and origin.
  • Medium Diplomacy Intel (Intel: 50) would reveal the opinion breakdown and let us see which diplomatic pacts they have with other empires.
The Intel you have on another empire heavily influences the Intel Categories, but it is not the only driving factor. It is also possible to have a higher Intel level in a certain category than what you would normally get from your level of Intel. One such example is Intel Reports, and we’ll talk about some other examples in future dev diaries.

Intel Reports
Intel Reports allow you to gain more information in a certain category, on a timed basis. It would be, for example, possible to gain an Intel Report which lasts for 720 days and gives you a High level of Military Intel, whereas otherwise High Military Intel might require you to have 80 Intel on the empire.

Stale Intel
It is said that knowledge is power, and intel is a form of knowledge. Power usually fades, and so does Intel. It is possible to lose access to information that was previously accessible. In some cases, this information will now be displayed as stale.

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Intel, now in the scent of working from home for months.

The last information you had about the empire was that they were far weaker than you on many accounts, but perhaps they have strengthened their fleets by now? Stale Intel can also mean that you may no longer see if the borders for an empire change or not.

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That's it for this week! Hopefully you've gained some Intel into how the game is changing for the upcoming expansion :)
 
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While I like espionage and all that, I think that it would kinda require a rework of the victory system. After all, victory points would be earned by a lot of things that just won't be visible anymore, like military or economic power, so you'd either have to:

1. make it so that players will have no idea whether they will win or not on the victory year, which would make victory just feel extremely arbitrary, especially between empires of similar power.

2. still allow people to still see empire scores, which would be the most scummy way of gaining intel on another empire.

Honestly it wouldn't bother me one bit if it moved more inline with the other Paradox games and did away with victory entirely. The best parts of this game have always been exploring and discovering an alien galaxy, and seeing emergent stories develop within it, and I think pre-defined objectives in such a game are superfluous.
 
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I very much hope so. I actually hope it loses the sensor range, mainly so that espionage benefits can be stronger.

Actually that is the only single-player benefit it has and the reason i take it every game :)
Sensor range from an ascension perk and espionage shouldn't be incompatible. I would really hate get EE butched. Having it giving the can't-be-reverse-engineering plus sensor range and a bonus to intel defense would be better than nerfing one of the most useful perks :)
 
Honestly it wouldn't bother me one bit if it moved more inline with the other Paradox games and did away with victory entirely. The best parts of this game have always been exploring and discovering an alien galaxy, and seeing emergent stories develop within it, and I think pre-defined objectives in such a game are superfluous.

I'd like this, but to throw out another idea the victory screen could just tell you your own ranking and no one elses. "If the game ended now you would come 6th out of 21". That provides you with motivation or a bench mark if you're interested in score victory (not sure if anyone realyl is) without giving away free intel.
 
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will it be possible for relatively pacifistic empires, to appear much more stonger militarily than they actually are to dissuade other empires to attack ? Or on the contrary, look weak so they attack you ?

Would criminal heritage megacorps profit from hiding their intel and have specific ways to increase it ?
 
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Honestly it wouldn't bother me one bit if it moved more inline with the other Paradox games and did away with victory entirely. The best parts of this game have always been exploring and discovering an alien galaxy, and seeing emergent stories develop within it, and I think pre-defined objectives in such a game are superfluous.
I don't fully agree with this. Giving players a long-term goal to aim towards would be a good way to kickstart that exploration of the galaxy and the emergent story and whatnot, otherwise you'd basically require extrinsic motivation to play the game. Of course, I think these long-term goals should be more in-depth and less arbitrary than "be empire with most points", possibly with different kinds of empires having different goals.
 
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I don't fully agree with this. Giving players a long-term goal to aim towards would be a good way to kickstart that exploration of the galaxy and the emergent story and whatnot, otherwise you'd basically require extrinsic motivation to play the game. Of course, I think these long-term goals should be more in-depth and less arbitrary than "be empire with most points", possibly with different kinds of empires having different goals.

Really, do you reckon that motivates people? I played many a campaign before I even knew it was there!
 
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Really, do you reckon that motivates people? I played many a campaign before I even knew it was there!
Yes, having goals to aim towards generally motivates people, even if some people can be motivated without them.
 
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Will intel provide any bonuses in warfare such as fleet combat for example?
There are several mechanics that are similar, so I hope that it's a part of regular Empires too. You can get extra damage on space monsters from the Curators if you pay an upfront fee. Getting enough intel on an enemies military should do a similar thing, where you have extra damage against them. And inversely, you should be able to send decoy plans to that empire so they have less damage against you.
The player should be able to fall for this as well, but only to an extent (If you gather enough intel, it should be guaranteed. But if you're in a rush, and only have, say, level 1 vs level 3, there's a chance it's wrong, and you can choose to ignore it). Like methegrate said in another thread (which I really agree with), these espionage mechanics shouldn't be based on RNG, but reliable and unreliable information you can choose to act on or not.
 
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There are several mechanics that are similar, so I hope that it's a part of regular Empires too. You can get extra damage on space monsters from the Curators if you pay an upfront fee. Getting enough intel on an enemies military should do a similar thing, where you have extra damage against them. And inversely, you should be able to send decoy plans to that empire so they have less damage against you.
The player should be able to fall for this as well, but only to an extent (If you gather enough intel, it should be guaranteed. But if you're in a rush, and only have, say, level 1 vs level 3, there's a chance it's wrong, and you can choose to ignore it). Like methegrate said in another thread (which I really agree with), these espionage mechanics shouldn't be based on RNG, but reliable and unreliable information you can choose to act on or not.
This brings up an interesting question. Is the benefit of intel some knowledge that the player then figures out how to exploit? Or is it adding X% more damage against that empire? I think many would find the former more fun and engaging, but the latter is probably better for the AI.
 
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This brings up an interesting question. Is the benefit of intel some knowledge that the player then figures out how to exploit? Or is it adding X% more damage against that empire? I think many would find the former more fun and engaging, but the latter is probably better for the AI.
It could be either depending on the situation, but I also think the former would be more interesting. The AI could have an increased chance of acting on intel based on what they gathered, and could take risks depending on the situation. If they're going to war, and are superior, they may be willing to risk going off of lower intel of enemy military data for extra damage. If they're equivalent, they could be unlikely to pursue it to avoid losing ground. But if they're inferior, this could possibly be likely again as an attempt to gain some leverage.
 
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We can see their homeworld and the borders explored by our science ship.
It's odd that the homeworld ( aka the most important intel of an other empire ) seems to be revealed immediately, too.
REDACTED (doesn’t look like anything to you)
Let me guess: "Spies".

And for the sake of god, do not introduce later the usual sabotage-BS, so please no "On colony X, district / building Y / Z was ruined / destroyed" or "In fleet A, corvette B / destroyer C / cruiser D / battleship E was destroyed" etc. !
 
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Really, do you reckon that motivates people? I played many a campaign before I even knew it was there!
Yes, otherwise there's little reason currently to play beyond the mid-game if you're not blobbing everywhere or have strong intrinsic motivation. It also allows for multiplayer games to have some closure instead of playing until everyone gets bored. "We're going to play a 20 hour campaign" is a different commitment than "this will be open-ended until too many people stop returning."
 
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Yeah, but that's true of almost any origin: have second species - syncretic, habitat/tomb/gaia/ring habitability - you know what. Has gateway in home system? Has relic world/machine world homeworld? Is necrophage? Three capitals right next to each other even if you don't know they are in a federation? And as soon as one can see planet modifiers for homeworld, all the other become known as well. Origins should be at lowest level of intel.
Syncretics would never have proles in government, so you'd never see them before knowing entire empire's demographics, same for necrophages. It's only Federations/Hegemony that give themselves out, but I suggest moving their neighbors several jumps away. Other information should be hidden better though. Imagine knowing that on the other side of the galaxy sits an empire you know nothing but the name, flag and that it's a member of the Senate with diplomatic power thrice as much as your own. How little you'd feel you know and how cautious you'd need to be - thrilling!
- Homeworld type, modifiers, species traits are all important economic and military information, and thus shouldn't be accessible that soon.
- Diplomatic score should only be known for mutual Galactic Community members, since it isn't used anywhere else.
- Sprawl, colony size, pop count is also an information for high economic intel. Gosh, these statistics are still kinda hard to track today for our own governments!
- I'd love to see at least an option to hide leader/species portrait. That only benefits lithoids, but with mods for diverse species traits...

Also, at first screenshot the border appearing through the fog of war kinda breaks immersion for me. It looks like I'm not supposed to see the border and not to know which stars the empire occupy, but I can easily deduce it. I'm loving Fog of War, but since border information would not just update itself over time, could we not get that information from the first contact? And then, to get not the picture of an entire border, but only those systems we're sure they own?
 
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It's only Federations/Hegemony that give themselves out
I'd argue it's actually not even that obvious at all. In my latest playthrough I found myself in a game with a couple of Hegemon Subordinate neighbors, and I wouldn't actually notice if I hadn't seen it in the comms menu.
 
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- That being said, I am a bit concerned regarding the whole "intel decay". There ought to be some way to have a constant stream of updated info of one empire or another, rather than repeat ad Infinitum intel-gathering missions with spies. Perhaps some treaties like open borders or cultural exchanges would do the trick.
Weren't they say that diplomatic ties increase intel floor (intel minimum) you will have about the other empire?
 
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In order for this to work, you would have to hide sources of diplomatic weight. As the game currently stands I can get an exact measure of how much more or less powerful an empire's military is compared to me by comparing my diplomatic weight from fleets to theirs. This also works for technology, economy, and every other sources of diplomatic weight to the point I use it whenever I am "equivalent" to someone in something.

Other then that, these changes should make the game more interesting
 
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- That being said, I am a bit concerned regarding the whole "intel decay". There ought to be some way to have a constant stream of updated info of one empire or another, rather than repeat ad Infinitum intel-gathering missions with spies. Perhaps some treaties like open borders or cultural exchanges would do the trick.

You'll only suffer intel decay if you stop whatever action was increasing your intel on the empire. Espionage will almost certainly be thing like building up networks or establishing informants, not one-time "you get some Intel!" missions precisely for that reason.

ALL treaties (well, actual treaties, open borders doesn't really count) seem like give some threshold of Intel, so those are an easy way to know stuff about your neighbors.
 
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I really love the presented changes and additions. Especially the fog of war.
It will be interesting to see, how Paradox will be able to deal with all the implications these changes have on so many systems mentioned in this thread already. Empire symbols, victory screen, diplomatic actions. I wonder, if the dev team had all of them in mind, when starting this endeavor...

To those requesting false intel as a possible game mechanic: I think this is a horrible idea!
Sure, it sounds fun to leak false information to an opponent and trick them into a war they will lose due to my superior military.
Or all the other thinkable shenanigans.

But remember, opponents would also be able to leak false intel to us.
And this, due to the nature of computer games, would render all intel we acquire useless!

Why? Because in reality, secret services are able to counter-check all the information. They will question the validity of the source. They will consider multiple sources for the same information. If in doubt, they will try to confirm the information. And in their report, they will label the information’s validity for those who will make decisions based on it.

All this is not possible in a computer game. Or at least not in one that is not entirely focused on espionage, like Stellaris.
What we will get is: Hey, based on our military intel level of 60%, the enemy’s fleet power is inferior to ours.
We have to be able to relay on this information, because we have not the means to recheck it!

Without the ability to recheck information, all information would be suspicious, potentially wrong and therefore worthless. The whole intel mechanic could as well not exist at all.
 
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I think intelligence (or defense against intel) should do many things:
  1. Counter intelligence should increase the Intel needed to get the true numbers and ofc increase the efford required to perform intelligence operations
  2. If you dont have sufficient intel on a country, you get a range in which the true numbers are hidden like in HOI4; e.g. the empire A has a fleet of 200 ships, an empire B with low intel gets shown that empire A has 150-250 ships
  3. It should be possible for empire A, given enough counterintelligence, to skew these numbers in order to appear stronger or weaker- if it decides to appear weaker, empire B sees 110-210 ships; if A decides to appear stronger, empire B sees 190-290 ships listed
  4. The same should be true for the victory conditions- you need sufficient intel to see exactly how far you are behind or how far you are closer to victory than other empires. Perhaps it my be convenient to give empires lagging behind some clues about the exact numbers like 50 years before the game ends or if an empire has completed 50%/75%/90% of the victory goals
  5. Empire A should be able to hide researched technologies, ascension perks, ethics, civics, origins etc. and empire B should need intel to discover the truth
  6. But it should be possible for A to e.g. openly display their fanatical purifier perk- e.g. a fanatical purifier should be able to auto-attack any incoming vessels unless the incoming fleet is much stronger- for some boni (or mali if you decide to hide your true nature, e.g. lower faction happiness)
  7. Spys should get availablility for certain operations such as:
    Killing/Kidnapping Leaders/Make Leaders spys for you etc.
    Steal Maps/Reliques/Technologies/Ships
    Destroy/Damage buildings/star bases/ships
    Make fleets go missing in action for a while
    Hack Gateways (so e.g. ships can only go one way or can only exit one way or deactivate gateways)
    Hack the shields of fleets/starbases so they take much more damage
    etc. - the options are basically limitless
  8. If you have enough control over another government (e.g. by controlling their leaders), you should be able to vasallize them
  9. Crime, Unrest, Instability, Pirates & co. should make it much easier to get intel
  10. The ethics of an empire, ascension perks, technologies, policies, edicts etc. should also affect how fast you get intel or how well you can defend against it
  11. Some empires (hive minds, robots, fanatical purifiers, fallen/awakened empires...) should need special technology in order to get infiltrated (e.g. in oder to infiltrate fanatical purifiers you will need agents disguised as the fanatical purifier species)
  12. It may very well be possible to combat the endgame crisis via espionage- hack the portals of the unbidden so they dont get reinforcements, place a decoy so the prethoryn swarm leaves your galaxy for another one, hack the mainframe of the contigency to initiate self destruct/dormancy etc. ...
  13. Having treaties with other empires, having open borders, being in the galactic community, relations, ethics etc. should all have influence how fast you get intel- or even provide some intel. E.g. having commercial pacts should reveal every source of trade in an ampire to all empires with a commercial pact. Perhaps you could add an "open trade post" or "open planet" pacts to reach provide trade for isolationists (or even purifiers for empires with no moral) like Canton did for China
I think many of these ideas are quite interesting to explore, but i think it may take a while to balance all that- especially the AI would need a lot of work in order to use these features intelligently.
 
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