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Hi everyone!

As @grekulf has mentioned, one of our key aims in the upcoming Lem update is to improve the value of our existing DLCs by adding new content to them. As part of this effort, several of our species packs have seen some love. This week, I will start us off by talking about some of the upcoming changes to the Necroids species pack.

While we were overall very happy with the content that went into Necroids (indeed, it has set a high bar for our other species packs to match!), a few of us - both within the team and in the community as a whole - regretted a few of the missed opportunities. The Lem update has provided us with the opportunity to rectify this.

Necrophage Hive Minds

There have been quite a few calls for allowing Hive Minds to be Necrophages, and with Lem, this will now be possible!

1623927984810.png


The will work similarly to normal Necrophages, but with a few differences:
  • Flavour texts that assume individual intelligences have been rewritten to fit the hive theme better
  • Hive Minds generally cannot support non-Hive individuals within their empire except as Livestock, and Necrophage Hive Minds are no different there. However, unlike other Hive Minds, Necro-Hives will allow their Livestock to procreate. The Livestock can then be subsumed into the Hive via Centers of Elevation.
    • Unlike normal Necrophages, Necro-Hive Necrophytes don’t use Consumer Goods. Instead, their upkeep of Food (or Minerals, if they are Lithoid) has been doubled.
1623935247824.png

  • Like normal Necrophages, Necro-Hives can also use the Necrophage Purge to speed things up a bit. For this purpose (but in a change applying generally to all Hive Minds), Hive Minds are now allowed to purge Gestalt pops that are not of their main species again.
  • Making Hive Worlds make sense for Necrophages is a bit complicated, as there was previously a hard block on non-Hive pops living there - the planet would eat them, effectively. The solution we are currently working on is to allow Necro-Hive specifically to bring their Necrophytes there.
  • Just as you can combine Fanatic Purifier with Necrophage, so you can also be a Devouring Swarm (or Terravore) Necrophage

General Necrophage Changes

It has not escaped notice that Necrophages are quite strong. A lot of the things that make them cool and fun to play also make them very powerful, so it’s a fine line to tread on. However, we have managed to come up with a set of changes that bring them a bit more in line with other starts while maintaining the spirit of the Origin:
  • Non-purging Necrophages no longer start with two extra pops than other non-standard origins (purging ones keep the extra pops because they are likely to lose a few pops through purging).
  • The guaranteed primitive worlds may no longer contain primitives that have advanced beyond the Iron Age (previous limit was Steam Age), and will have more defensive armies than very early primitives usually have. This is to make their start not quite as outright better than other starts.
  • Centers of Elevation no longer provide stability bonuses, and the job’s unity output has been cut by a quarter.
  • The chance of pops escaping during Necrophage purging has been increased from 10% to 25%. This is now also communicated to players in tooltips.
1623935403610.png


Death Cults

In contrast to Necrophages, with the advent of 3.0 and its accompanying pop growth changes, it has been felt that Death Cults - though interesting mechanically and flavour-wise - have somewhat fallen behind the curve in terms of bonuses. In other words, more reward is needed for sacrificing your pops.

One of the issues we had at the time when we implemented it was the limited possibilities for using proper mathematical formulas in Stellaris scripts. However, as hinted in my previous dev diary, that particular bottleneck has now been alleviated (in fact, we have gone considerably further than hinted there - Lem will have a lot of positive surprises for modders!).

Previously, when you chose to sacrifice your populace, you would gain a portion of the bonus as a fixed modifier, and another portion scaled by the raw number of pops you sacrificed. This remains similar, but with one key difference: the scaled modifier is now scaled by the % of your total number of pops you have sacrificed.

We are still working on the exact numbers, but the gist of this is that you will now tend to get a lot better bonuses per pop you sacrifice, especially in the early game.


Reanimated Armies

Changes have also been made to Reanimated Armies. While the fantasy of being able to reanimate corpses to fight for you was pretty cool, in practice the impact of unlocking a new army type - which you had to research a separate technology to unlock - was quite underwhelming. For that reason, a number of changes have been made:
  • You can now build Dread Encampments from day 1. Countries starting with the civic will have one on their starting planet
  • Dread Encampments are generally more useful to have now: they now provide two Necromancer jobs (up from 1), and Necromancers now produce 6 each of society and physics (up from 4), though their number of defensive armies they spawn has been cut from 4 to 3.
  • Building a Dread Encampment replaces your Defense Armies with Undead Defense Armies, which are somewhat stronger
1623935473810.png

  • When you defeat any organic enemy army in battle, you now have a one in three chance of resurrecting them to join your own forced - in effect immediately spawning an Undead (offensive) Army
  • Finally, if an empire with Undead Armies defeats the Voidspawn or Tiyanki Matriarch, they can now resurrect them to fight in their own fleets!
1623936542984.png



That’s all for today. Stay tuned to hear more about our plans for the Lem update!
 
I was expecting things about the Humanoid pack ans I don't really care much about Necroid but the Dead Army that raise Fallen opponent army is nice.

Let's hope all army will have something neat like that someday.
 
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They've already said they are turning their attention on overall game balance. They are starting with origins. Afterwards, they'll move onto something else. But necrophage has been an oppressive origin since release and honestly, these changes dont nerf it to the ground. I approve these changes and the origin still sounds fun to play
Sure thing, except Void Dwellers and Ring World beat it silly. And if you go for Synth Ascension you render it moot on it's entirety. Calling it oppressive because it's decent, ignoring that a bunch of other origins are a whole tier or two above it is absurd. Unless you play Fan Mat/Synth ascension on the regular.
 
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Hi everyone!

As @grekulf has mentioned, one of our key aims in the upcoming Lem update is to improve the value of our existing DLCs by adding new content to them. As part of this effort, several of our species packs have seen some love. This week, I will start us off by talking about some of the upcoming changes to the Necroids species pack.

While we were overall very happy with the content that went into Necroids (indeed, it has set a high bar for our other species packs to match!), a few of us - both within the team and in the community as a whole - regretted a few of the missed opportunities. The Lem update has provided us with the opportunity to rectify this.

Necrophage Hive Minds
YES YES
There have been quite a few calls for allowing Hive Minds to be Necrophages, and with Lem, this will now be possible!

View attachment 732533

The will work similarly to normal Necrophages, but with a few differences:
  • Flavour texts that assume individual intelligences have been rewritten to fit the hive theme better
Nice
  • Hive Minds generally cannot support non-Hive individuals within their empire except as Livestock, and Necrophage Hive Minds are no different there. However, unlike other Hive Minds, Necro-Hives will allow their Livestock to procreate. The Livestock can then be subsumed into the Hive via Centers of Elevation.
Fair
    • Unlike normal Necrophages, Necro-Hive Necrophytes don’t use Consumer Goods. Instead, their upkeep of Food (or Minerals, if they are Lithoid) has been doubled.
The upkeep could be seen as a dire nerf, but retrospectively, 5 amenities per Necrophyte is actually quite good. This change on its own could make necrophage too good to pass on as Hive... and we didn't even get to the "necrophaging" part
View attachment 732550
  • Like normal Necrophages, Necro-Hives can also use the Necrophage Purge to speed things up a bit. For this purpose (but in a change applying generally to all Hive Minds), Hive Minds are now allowed to purge Gestalt pops that are not of their main species again.
  • Making Hive Worlds make sense for Necrophages is a bit complicated, as there was previously a hard block on non-Hive pops living there - the planet would eat them, effectively. The solution we are currently working on is to allow Necro-Hive specifically to bring their Necrophytes there.
Ok, although i'd suggest also giving some kind of edge to non-necrophage hive while you're at it.
  • Just as you can combine Fanatic Purifier with Necrophage, so you can also be a Devouring Swarm (or Terravore) Necrophage
Spooky.
General Necrophage Changes

It has not escaped notice that Necrophages are quite strong. A lot of the things that make them cool and fun to play also make them very powerful, so it’s a fine line to tread on. However, we have managed to come up with a set of changes that bring them a bit more in line with other starts while maintaining the spirit of the Origin:
  • Non-purging Necrophages no longer start with two extra pops than other non-standard origins (purging ones keep the extra pops because they are likely to lose a few pops through purging).
Do they tho? what if they didn't meet any empire during the purging? it's a question I always wondered. In addition, most "Op" Necrophage do not resort to purge at all, they just keep the slaves around. The only Op "Purging" Necrophage are Total War (which doesn't really need balancing in my opinion), Unity tree rush (which is a pretty big gimmick) and "Hive assimilation"
  • The guaranteed primitive worlds may no longer contain primitives that have advanced beyond the Iron Age (previous limit was Steam Age), and will have more defensive armies than very early primitives usually have. This is to make their start not quite as outright better than other starts.
I'm pretty sure it was always 8 pop post-nerf, Never got a Steam age ever since
  • Centers of Elevation no longer provide stability bonuses, and the job’s unity output has been cut by a quarter.
Quite Irrelevant, Necrophage that plays around the strenght of this origin quite often avoid this building, let alone uppgrade it. Because again, slaves are good.
  • The chance of pops escaping during Necrophage purging has been increased from 10% to 25%. This is now also communicated to players in tooltips.
View attachment 732551
But can they escape if you haven't met anyone yet?
Death Cults

In contrast to Necrophages, with the advent of 3.0 and its accompanying pop growth changes, it has been felt that Death Cults - though interesting mechanically and flavour-wise - have somewhat fallen behind the curve in terms of bonuses. In other words, more reward is needed for sacrificing your pops.

One of the issues we had at the time when we implemented it was the limited possibilities for using proper mathematical formulas in Stellaris scripts. However, as hinted in my previous dev diary, that particular bottleneck has now been alleviated (in fact, we have gone considerably further than hinted there - Lem will have a lot of positive surprises for modders!).

Previously, when you chose to sacrifice your populace, you would gain a portion of the bonus as a fixed modifier, and another portion scaled by the raw number of pops you sacrificed. This remains similar, but with one key difference: the scaled modifier is now scaled by the % of your total number of pops you have sacrificed.

We are still working on the exact numbers, but the gist of this is that you will now tend to get a lot better bonuses per pop you sacrifice, especially in the early game.
That's hard to believe honestly. Good luck on that, but you should most definetely reconsider the numbers used in the "Death temple" in the first place because this building is very underwhelming.
Reanimated Armies

Changes have also been made to Reanimated Armies. While the fantasy of being able to reanimate corpses to fight for you was pretty cool, in practice the impact of unlocking a new army type - which you had to research a separate technology to unlock - was quite underwhelming. For that reason, a number of changes have been made:
  • You can now build Dread Encampments from day 1. Countries starting with the civic will have one on their starting planet
"Ah at last" -Some Death knight.
  • Dread Encampments are generally more useful to have now: they now provide two Necromancer jobs (up from 1), and Necromancers now produce 6 each of society and physics (up from 4)
That's better.
  • , though their number of defensive armies they spawn has been cut from 4 to 3.
why.
  • Building a Dread Encampment replaces your Defense Armies with Undead Defense Armies, which are somewhat stronger
View attachment 732552
  • When you defeat any organic enemy army in battle, you now have a one in three chance of resurrecting them to join your own forced - in effect immediately spawning an Undead (offensive) Army.
"Finally" -that same death knight again, although it's a spooky prospect
  • Finally, if an empire with Undead Armies defeats the Voidspawn or Tiyanki Matriarch, they can now resurrect them to fight in their own fleets!
View attachment 732555
This... is actually terrifying. Hilarious, but terrifying.
That’s all for today. Stay tuned to hear more about our plans for the Lem update!
 
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If Tiyanki matriarch is killed by some empire or crisis can be made possible for a new (regular) one to spawn in her system if the Tiyanki are protected by the galactic laws?
 
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All I read is NERF! A bit sad new team does not focus on something that does not work (many detailed bugs that are in queue to see action for many months, other weak origins and settings) but have their attention on things that work " too good" (relatively) I don't like!
 
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Reanimated Armies
[...]
  • When you defeat any organic enemy army in battle, you now have a one in three chance of resurrecting them to join your own forced - in effect immediately spawning an Undead (offensive) Army
I just had a thought: could the Reanimated Armies civic unlock a new Purge type that converts undesireable pops into associated Assault armies of that species? I've already mentioned that I've been wanting to resurrected my enemy's armies, but I could see this working as an alternative or perhaps in addition to, that means of acquiring enemy armies.
 
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Great changes! Some other things I'd like to see related to these ones:
I never understood why Citizen Service and Reanimated Armies exclude each other, I think they should become compatible and the Necromancers get the bonus unity generation like the Soldiers, furthermore I think an Hive Mind using Undeads would be really cool ;) ;
with the introduction of the Necrophage Hive Mind I hope you will consider a Syncretic Evolution Hive Mind too, with both the Primary and Secondary species as part of the Hive Mind.
 
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What about Space Amoebas? I want to bring Bubbles back to life because I FAILED HER! I want to bring all her kin to life. Can we reanimate space fauna if we take their home systems, where they could as well return to die?

Necromancer Fanatical Befrienders - even death cannot stop the power of our friendship!
 
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May I also suggest that you include a project for reanimating the Ether Drake? It seems a bit odd that two of the really big biological guardians can be resurrected but the third (the Ether Drake) cannot. I'm not counting the Dimensional Horror here given its extra-dimensional nature and the idea that what you fought is only a small projection into the physical plane of the Stellaris world.

On a different note (not directly related to the main topic except for its link to 3.1), may I make a suggestion that for Lem you also (1.) take a look at buildings that people basically never have any reason to build? In particular, planetary shields are essentially pointless in the current builds (and have been for a long time, since they stopped given research comparable to a lab in versions long since past), (2.) have the AI prioritize research more, and (3.) allow the AI to build 1 Holo-Theatre and its upgrade per planet for amenities?
 
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Sure thing, except Void Dwellers and Ring World beat it silly. And if you go for Synth Ascension you render it moot on it's entirety. Calling it oppressive because it's decent, ignoring that a bunch of other origins are a whole tier or two above it is absurd. Unless you play Fan Mat/Synth ascension on the regular.
Are you playing it right? If you conquer the primitives immediately, that's a huge jump in pops. Pops are king in stellaris. This nerd was justified.

Ring worlds are already getting more nerfs. So don't bring them up in your argument since they're already getting hit. Heck, they've already been hit once. This is the second update affecting them.

Void dwellers are only as strong as they are because research habitats in general are stupidly strong. And anyone with a decent tech rush can start benefiting early on. Anyone who played void dwellers pre 3.0 and post 3.0 know they've been hit as well. And they may just introduce more nerfs for them.

These nerfs are being dropped for everything. Not just necrophage, and judging by the communities reaction, they also feel its justified. The playstyle itself isn't changed. They're just slowed down. The fun still exists
 
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  • Finally, if an empire with Undead Armies defeats the Voidspawn or Tiyanki Matriarch, they can now resurrect them to fight in their own fleets!
1623936542984.png
Mmm, just imagining Necrofying killed Prethoryn ships now, too, sending them back to fight their crisis brethren.
That would be an interesting - albeit horrifying - war to witness.
 
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You know, with the idea that army civics are generally weak (due to the fact that planets can be captured with soldier spam/human wave attacks), maybe Reanimated Armies could justifiably give the civilization a population growth bonus. The rationale is that when people did in this society, the necromancers raise them as undead zombies to continue contributing. The population growth bonus could make them far more powerful.
 
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You know, with the idea that army civics are generally weak (due to the fact that planets can be captured with soldier spam/human wave attacks), maybe Reanimated Armies could justifiably give the civilization a population growth bonus. The rationale is that when people did in this society, the necromancers raise them as undead zombies to continue contributing. The population growth bonus could make them far more powerful.
I doubt they'd go for that. The devs are VERY hesitant to introduce ANY additional growth modifiers without severe penalties. I like the idea, but they've been going in the direction of less pops in the game over time. This most recent patch being most notable.
 
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A lot of info around Hivemind Necrophages is missing. Have you guys not decided on the trait for Hiveminds yet?

Will Necrophage Hiveminds be able to grow or not? What are their stats like? Do they get bonus Complex Drone output? They don't have ruler jobs, so what do they get instead? Do they get reduced upkeep? Maybe reduced Amenity upkeep for Hiveminds? Whats there to balance non-Lithoid Necrophages? Because it is widely agreed that Lithoid Necrophages are so much better because of bonus Habitability. So non-Lithoid Necrophages need a bonus to be able to compete. Its boring to see Lithoid Necrophages all the time and we're also missing out on the Necroid Portraits because of this.


To me it is not clear how the 2nd species will work. You guys said Livestock can grow now. Are we supposed to be using the 2nd species as Livestock only and have growing Livestock? I don't see how an empire would function if you only have growing Livestock pops and Necrophage pops do all the other jobs. Besides, you don't want livestock jobs. You want Energy and minerals from your non-Necrophage pops while Necrophage pops work the specialist (or for Hive Complex Drone) jobs.
 
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Good changes all around, especially regarding the reanimated armies that now feel way more unique and worthwhile.
  • Finally, if an empire with Undead Armies defeats the Voidspawn or Tiyanki Matriarch, they can now resurrect them to fight in their own fleets!
View attachment 732555
Besides, this bit alone is simply amazing :)
 
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