Stellaris Dev Diary #220 - Additions to Humanoids Species Pack

[majikero]

lol, no.

When I say boon, I mean its a fundamental mechanical change you can build around. Its not just x bonus to y. Sure its not some new OP meta but it offers a different approch to the game.

 

[Vorpaliminal]

What I want to know about Clone Army is the age range for their leader recruitment pool.

If they use the standard organic age range then most of them will be dead in less than 10 years. If they use the Hive Mind (10-20, fine) or Machine Intelligence (2-10, fantastic) age ranges then their -40 year lifespan will be tolerable. It's a similar deal to how Lithoids get +50 year lifespan, but their recruitment age range is 50-80 while organic age range is 28-50, making their trait an effective 20 year lifespan increase over organics.

 

[RossN]

Strangely enoufgh I'd been thinking about using a Hive Mind to roughly simulate a cloned civilisation (well, actually created via a malfuctioning teleporter but still composed of identical individuals.) Very cool to see an actual mechanic for it.

 

[KaanLinov]

I hope someday at least a dozen new planetary modifiers will be added

 

[Critical Ethics]

I think Master Crafters is much better for RP potential than for its strength.

RP is very important and the RP is very good, but something being good RP and something being good mechanically are two completely unrelated statements. The former being good doesn't excuse or compensate for the latter being bad.

edit: I edited this because it came across as harsher and more personal than I meant

 

[klingonadmiral]

Oh, you can also combine Clone Army with [...] Pleasure Seekers.

 

[HFY]

In addition, the Entertainer job will now also grant +1% pop growth and Servants jobs will produce an additional 5 Amenities.

Inverting this bonus might make more sense.

Maids being used for pleasure will tend to facilitate more reproduction than professionals who need to stay in business.

I'd be in favor if putting the +1% growth on Servants, and either bonus Amenities or bonus Trade Value on Entertainers.

You could probably do this without changing the text (insofar as it's the text seen here).

 

[zZander56]

With the traditions, clerks produce 5 TV and 2 Amenities.

It's actually even better than that with Thrifty. Thrifty isn't just a 25% to trade, it's a 25% boost to *base* trade, meaning all those various +10% bonuses also operate on the +1.25 TV Thrifty provides. It's like having 25% more pops dedicated to the job. So, with a reasonable +50% trade bonus from traditions/ethics, they make 9.5 TV each. That's about 4.5 energy and 2.5 consumer goods. If focused on, this means you don't need as many miners in your empire because you're not using any artisans. That's a lot of pops saved that could instead be working metallurgist jobs or what have you. Factoring in the cost of the minerals you would otherwise need, clerks actually produce quite a bit if focused on. More than or at least comparable to technicians I believe.

Also, when you're running a trade build, you'll typically have Merchant Guilds or be a Megacorp, which means your ruler strata is producing you about 22 TV on each planet. With this patch, the sheer amount of extra merchants alone will make focusing on trade worthwhile.

 

[SelchBuall]

So what about the actual assault and defensive armies for the origin then? Are they all replaced with clone armies? They should be since theyre technically all clone armies, and should probably receive a buff then seeing how the whole race was bred specifically for that purpose. Also i feel like their leaders should be cheaper since A. Theyre also clones, B. your probably gonna be buying new ones every 10-20 years

 

[TrotBot]

I wonder if Pleasure Seekers is included in The Greater Good lv.5 as acceptable living condition?

i would be very upset if it was.

 

[Objulen]

Wait, wait, wait. You say "want/need." This is the whole problem, the key to understanding why this civic is not useful.

Every empire wants 0 Artisans. You never want Artisans. Ever. Never ever. The only thing they do is make CGs, which is a useless thing. Yes, you can sell them, sure, you can get some energy back. But it's vastly inferior to Energy, and even TV, and there's quick diminishing returns because the market price effects....

While this is technically true, it can also be taken to a reductive extreme. Technically, you don't want researchers or mettalurgists either, but you need them to get more alloys and research. While CGs are more of a means to an end, you'll need them. So the real question is - opportunity cost.

If we're talking about Fanatic Materialist, then yes, you're going to go Technocracy/Meritocracy for optimization. However, there are other builds and other combinations you can play. Masterful Crafters may also be a good 3rd Civic for those builds, depending on what other options you have and how you've arranged your empire.

Artificers reduce the number of Artisans you need by about 12% to 15%, depending on the stage of the game, and they provide extra resource that are still useful to have. So, it frees up maybe 12 to 15 pops, more if you have extra researches, and they have some extra bonuses that probably matter more at the start of the game than later on - And 2.2 extra engineering research is a nice bonus at the start of the game, if you're not a Technocracy/Meritocracy combo - any research bonus is. Early game is a game of small numbers. Meritocracy is only giving you 0.8/0.8/0.8 extra research at the start of the game, after all.

Also, early game, the extra building slots will be good to have, for non-Technocrats.

The real question is if mercantile empires - who can expand the TV bonus to 4+ and use it to get energy, CG, and Unity - will be able to float their economy on TV to the point where they don't need Artisans. With the changes to trade in upcoming patches, that might be a better argument against Masterful Crafters than anything else.

It's actually even better than that with Thrifty. Thrifty isn't just a 25% to trade, it's a 25% boost to *base* trade, meaning all those various +10% bonuses also operate on the +1.25 TV Thrifty provides. It's like having 25% more pops dedicated to the job.

I did not know that. That makes it even better.

Also, when you're running a trade build, you'll typically have Merchant Guilds or be a Megacorp, which means your ruler strata is producing you about 22 TV on each planet. With this patch, the sheer amount of extra merchants alone will make focusing on trade worthwhile.

It definiately works out well, but Merchants have always been worthwhile, unlike Clerks.

 

[Objulen]

i would be very upset if it was.

Chemical Bliss is acceptable with GG 4 and 5. It wouldn't be much different than that.

 

[Olterin]

Chemical Bliss is acceptable with GG 4 and 5. It wouldn't be much different than that.

Yes but chemical bliss gives a rather significant malus to pop output unlike this newfound ... utopia of sorts.

 

[Sibericus]

I just did some calculation and I can now have what I always wanted:

Super-powerful genetically modified soldiers that can defeat literally anyone.

I know it's not optimal or even reasonable to stack land army bonuses, but for RP and flavour it's really nice.

Clone Army + Very Strong + Fanatic Purifiers + Warrior Culture =
= whooping +143% Army Damage

(not counting technologies and repeatables)

This means that potentially Gene Warrior Armies can have higher damage than Mega-Warform, even than Mega-Warform with Warbots!

The HP of the soldier will still be lower, but I'm happy - the only thing this needs is Resilient to have defense armies with +193% damage (if I understand how defense armies work).

I think I will test it right after I test new food empire (Agrarian Idyll + Calalytic Processing + Clone Vats).

Having really high hopes for the Clone Army - so far it looks very, very neat.

My favourite additions to the game are the ones that enable playing differently and we're getting some nice things from both Plantoids and Humanoids now: Catalytic Processing will break the dependence on Mining Districts/minerals and Clone Army will break Xenos and Mega-Warforms alike on the field of battle!

Go Lithoids for the HP buff. Plus, their growth speed penalties shouldn't affect pop assembly, so it's just a buff.

 

[HFY]

Yes but chemical bliss gives a rather significant malus to pop output unlike this newfound ... utopia of sorts.

Suggest "Me-topia" since it's not really for all of you.

 

[Objulen]

Yes but chemical bliss gives a rather significant malus to pop output unlike this newfound ... utopia of sorts.

But this costs a Civic slot, and is thematically similar.

 

[Lazy Name]

Well, you are using a Civic slot, so it should offer a decent benefit. The costs seem to be based around Decent Conditions - they are all more expensive than Decent, but the workers cost less than Social Welfare. There's also the extra 10% tax, so rulers cost 1.21, specialists cost .61, and workers cost 0.3.

There's no listed TV, so we also don't know if that increases proportionally with the extra CG cost or not, nor do we know how it affects political power.

The description also offers no benefits to slaves, which is appropriate, though its incompatibility with Slaver Guilds means that only Xenophobes will have slaves with this Civic.

It does seem a bit odd for Authoritarians, especially since the Authoritarian faction won't be happy if there aren't also Xenophobes to enables slaves, as you won't be running a Stratified Economy. However, for non-Authoritarian, non-Egalitarian civilizations, it can make perfect sense. It does seem like it should modify the Authoritarian faction so they don't gripe about the lack of stratification.

I see your point on the mechanics side, how it should offer a benefit and all. It's just the flavor side that somewhat bothers me. All other living standards sort of paint a picture of what life would be like in such a society; You can see the intellectual elitism in Academic Privilege, the comradery and willing sacrifice in Shared Burdens. Decadent Lifestyle is just "Everyone's salary's 10% higher, and every single person and their entire family line are over the moon about that forever for some reason." I really don't see how it makes any more sense for non-egalitarians and non-authoritarians, either. IMO, getting rid of the living standard and just adding effects onto the other ones makes more sense, since the actual flavor of decadent societies is better represented by other Living Standards.

There's also the extra 10% tax, so rulers cost 1.21, specialists cost .61, and workers cost 0.3.

I thought the values displayed included the extra 10%? 1.1 is 1 times 110%, 0.27 is 0.25 times 110% rounded down, etc.

 

[romothecus]

It's actually even better than that with Thrifty. Thrifty isn't just a 25% to trade, it's a 25% boost to *base* trade, meaning all those various +10% bonuses also operate on the +1.25 TV Thrifty provides. It's like having 25% more pops dedicated to the job. So, with a reasonable +50% trade bonus from traditions/ethics, they make 9.5 TV each. That's about 4.5 energy and 2.5 consumer goods. If focused on, this means you don't need as many miners in your empire because you're not using any artisans. That's a lot of pops saved that could instead be working metallurgist jobs or what have you. Factoring in the cost of the minerals you would otherwise need, clerks actually produce quite a bit if focused on. More than or at least comparable to technicians I believe.

Also, when you're running a trade build, you'll typically have Merchant Guilds or be a Megacorp, which means your ruler strata is producing you about 22 TV on each planet. With this patch, the sheer amount of extra merchants alone will make focusing on trade worthwhile.

No, TV doesn't work like that. Most "bonuses to jobs" don't work on TV. Stability does because it only specifically works on a planet's TV. And there simply aren't that many TV bonuses compared to energy bonuses, "resources from jobs" bonuses, etc.

+50% from "traditions/ethics"? What are you talking about? Fanatic Xenophile is 20%. Diplomacy has 10%. Nobody is getting +50% from "traditions/ethics", and hardly anybody is getting more than 10%.

 

[Objulen]

I see your point on the mechanics side, how it should offer a benefit and all. It's just the flavor side that somewhat bothers me. All other living standards sort of paint a picture of what life would be like in such a society; You can see the intellectual elitism in Academic Privilege, the comradery and willing sacrifice in Shared Burdens. Decadent Lifestyle is just a slightly more indulgent Decent Conditions. "Everyone's salary's 10% higher, and every single person and their entire family line are over the moon about that forever for some reason." IMO, getting rid of the living standard and just adding effects onto the other ones makes more sense, since this living standard is essentially just a +consumer goods upkeep modifier anyways and the actual flavor of decadent societies is better represented by other Living Standards.

It does lack mechanics to back up the flavor. I'm sure that there are going to be an uptick of space elves whose Time Has Come to End the Cycle.

For something that has more flavor, it could have an ethics attraction penalty and extra bonuses to compensate.

I thought the values displayed included the extra 10%? 1.1 is 1 times 110%, 0.27 is 0.25 times 110% rounded down, etc.

I hadn't considered that. It could the case.

 

[Objulen]

No, TV doesn't work like that. Most "bonuses to jobs" don't work on TV. Stability does because it only specifically works on a planet's TV. And there simply aren't that many TV bonuses compared to energy bonuses, "resources from jobs" bonuses, etc.

+50% from "traditions/ethics"? What are you talking about? Fanatic Xenophile is 20%. Diplomacy has 10%. Nobody is getting +50% from "traditions/ethics", and hardly anybody is getting more than 10%.

Fanatic Xenophile gives you 20%. Mercantile Traditions will give you 20% after they're implemented. Free Traders (Mega Corps) gives you 10%. Mercantile Diplomacy gives you 10%. A Trade League gives you 5% per level. Later on, Galactic Stock Exchanges gives you an additional 20%. Realistically, you can start an empire with a 30%-40% TV bonus and quickly build up to 50%-60%, and get even more with a Trade League. Overall, getting 80%-100% TV + Stability by the late game is easily achievable for a mercantile build.

However, it does mean that you'll need to focus on Trade to really get much out of it, especially once getting Unity or CG out of TV will be tradition gated, or sneak into a Trade League. Most empires will get less and less out of TV as the game progresses, though they might get some decent Unity or CG returns later on if they take Mercantile Traditions later in the game - anyone can get those and a Galactic Stock Exchange, netting a 40% bonus + Stability. When/if Unity becomes more central to the game, using TV for Unity generation may become very useful.