Stellaris Dev Diary #221 - Balance and Quality of Life Improvements

[Zoomy]

Just had a thought: now that Shattered Ring has been nerfed into the stone age, does it still remove guaranteed habitables and change habitability? Because I'm not sure either of those are necessary given that the ringworld start is now basically just another planet.

 

[Tannhäuser Cake]

I am slightly surprised that Meritocracy was not touched, considering how it is "S tier" on the main search hit on Google. It could be nerfed to +5% and still remain a really, really good pick. It has also been argued, several times in the past, that meritocracy is not unique to democracies and oligarchies - that there are several historical empires where the introduction of meritocracy was even a defining feature (imperial China being a frequently mentioned example).

Have the developers considered any change to Meritocracy along these lines?

• Any government may pick the civic.
• The civic gives +5% output to specialist pops and +5% output to ruler pops.
• The civic prohibits the use of the "Selected Lineages" and "Capacity Boosters" policy options.
  (This would also prevent Meritocratic societies from fulfilling the Totalitarian "Elitism" faction approval condition, locking them to -5 rather than allowing +5, and reducing the maximum approval from 85 to 75. Authoritarian pops could no longer get +10% happiness from faction approval if their government adopts Meritocracy, and a lower happiness means a lower governing ethics attraction. While monarchies would gain access to the civic, it would still chafe - and it could ultimately contribute to a change of government type through ethics shifting.)
• Edit: The civic can not be combined with Aristocratic Elite.

These changes would, in addition to 1) making Meritocracy a slightly less obligatory pick and 2) resolving the government limitation issues, also 3) help make the egalitarian specialist bonus more special; anyone who wants to make a specialist-focused state would have more reason to pick egalitarian. Instead of Meritocracy currently being as strong as Fanatic Egalitarian, Fanatic Egalitarian would become twice as strong as Meritocracy, as far as specialist bonuses are concerned.

Edit:
This post has spawned a separate discussion thread on meritocracy.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/the-meaning-of-meritocracy.1488729/

 

[joe9594]

Just had a thought: now that Shattered Ring has been nerfed into the stone age, does it still remove guaranteed habitables and change habitability? Because I'm not sure either of those are necessary given that the ringworld start is now basically just another planet.

Maybe an interesting way to balance it would be making all 4 (or just 3) ringworld sections available to start but now obviously as shattered ringworlds. So you still get three guaranteed planets, and they are now size 25 with these nice new mining job replacements but in exchange you lose habitability for all other worlds.

 

[Alfray Stryke]

Is that a strict list or something that depends on a scripted trigger for habitable megastructures (for happiness non-penalty part)? Would be really nice if the latter since it would be nice to have void dwellers still-happy while living on modded megastructures

The void dweller trait uses the following:

    triggered_pop_modifier = {
        potential = {
            exists = planet
            planet = { is_artificial = no }
        }
        pop_happiness = -0.3
    }
    modifier = {
        habitat_jobs_produces_mult = 0.15
        non_artificial_planet_jobs_produces_mult = -0.15
        pop_growth_speed = -0.1
    }

and the modifiers are defined in the economic categories file

    triggered_produces_modifier = {
        key = habitat_jobs
        modifier_types = {
            mult
        }
        trigger = {
            exists = planet
            planet = { is_planet_class = pc_habitat }
        }
    }

    triggered_produces_modifier = {
        key = non_artificial_planet_jobs
        modifier_types = {
            mult
        }
        trigger = {
            exists = planet
            planet = { is_artificial = no }
        }
    }

Will Scrap Miners benefit from the mining techs?

They count as miners for all purposes, so they'll even benefit from the Mining Guilds civic.

I was hoping for Agrarian Idyll to get some buffs or at least lift the shattered ring exclusion so we can take it. I agree that it sounded overpowered to get tons of amenities for almost free, but with these tweaks shattered rings become similar to regular planets in terms of districts.

As for the contents of the DD, it's an amazing job. I welcome them tweaks. Very nice stuff are in there. Love you guys and gals.

Cheers~

Glad you like the changes. Will bring up removing the restriction on Agrarian Idyll to the rest of the team.

For rogue servitors, could it be made possible for bio trophies to auto resettle? With rogue servitors now having access to ecumenopolis with a special district for trophies, the optimal way to play would be to grow them on each of your planets, and then move them to the ecumenopolis. I could see this being rather tedious. If it could be made automatic, it would be a nice balance change.

If you change their species rights from "Migration Controls Enabled" to "No Migration Controls" they should auto-resettle in 3.0 if I recall correctly; if not drop a bug report.

 

[Pale Blue]

The issue I have with technocracy is not that it is op good, but that it takes away the weakness materialists are supposed to have. It even turns it into a strength! Materialists are supposed to be strong in science, but weak in unity. Spiritualists are supposed to be weak at science, but good at unity. Because technocracy let's scientist produce unity they are now good at producing science and good at producing unity. They can even produce more unity than spiritualist. That just wrecks the intended balance and further weakens the underpowered spiritualist.

 

[LystAP]

----

Hello everyone. I am one of Game Designers currently working on Stellaris and on the Custodian Team. While we have been busy with radical changes here and there, new civics and origins, we also wanted to have some more tame but no less important balance changes for our already existing civics, specifically for our outliers and those we felt under- or especially over-utilized.

The following lists all the civics we felt needed a substantial lift up
Regular Empires

• Beacon of Liberty: Gave +15% produced Unity -> Now ALSO also gives -15% Empire Sprawl from Pops
• Imperial Cult: Gave +1 Edict cap -> Now gives +2 Edict cap
• Idealistic Foundation: Gave +5% Happiness -> Now gives +10% Happiness
• Environmentalist: Gave -10% Consumer Goods Upkeep -> Now gives -20% Consumer Goods Upkeep
• Parliamentary System: Gave +25% Faction Influence -> Now gives +40% Faction Influence
• Efficient Bureaucracy: Gave +10% Admin Cap -> Now gives +20% Admin Cap
• Nationalistic Zeal: Gave -10% War Exhaustion Gain and -10% Claim Cost -> Now gives -20% War Exhaustion Gain and -15% Claim Cost
• Functional Architecture: Gave -10% Building and District Cost, -10% Building and District Upkeep and +1 Building Slot -> Now gives -15% Building and District Cost, +2 Building Slots, Upkeep reduction removed

Hive-Minds

• Subspace Ephase: Gave +15% Naval Capacity -> Now gives +20% Ship Speed and ALSO gives +15% Naval Capacity
• Divided Attention: Gave +10% Admin Cap -> Now gives +20% Admin Cap

Machine Intelligences

• Constructobot: Gave -10% Building and District Cost, -10% Building and District Upkeep and +1 Building Slot -> Now gives -15% Building and District Cost, +2 Building Slots, Upkeep reduction removed

We hope those changes, while strictly number tweaks, will give those civics a breath of fresh air and increase their appeal to the wider player-base because, “oh, shiny new numbers” is one hell of a drug.

Now sadly, only strengthening the civics we felt undervalued or under-used doesn’t solve all issues, so we also introduced some slight nerfs to the 2(3) biggest offenders in terms of being “must have” civics.

• Slaver Guilds : Reduced enslaved population from 40% to 35%
• Indentured Assets: Reduced enslaved population from 40% to 35% (Megacorp civic)
• Technocracy: Added 1 Consumer Goods upkeep to Scientist Jobs that create unity because of Technocracy

As you can tell, for the slaver guild civics, this change is relatively minor, compared to the Technocracy nerf. The goal here is to make those 3 civics slightly less good. We have no intention of nerfing them into the ground. Our goal here is to move them from “the best pick, every time” to “could be best pick, depending on circumstances”.

We will be following your feedback here and over all other platforms very closely as well as our own telemetry and we will keep adjusting and tweaking the civics as we go on.

As an extra note, we know that there are several other civics that definitely need a pick me up, we will be looking into them as well, but not for the Lem update.

That’s everything from us this week! Thanks for reading and we’ll be back next week diving into more changes in the Lem Update.

What about Feudal Society, which is one of the worst civics that doesn't really work right now? Is there a way to make it so that vassals under this Civic regain the AI resource boosts that they normally lose when they become a vassal?

 

[LystAP]

If you change their species rights from "Migration Controls Enabled" to "No Migration Controls" they should auto-resettle in 3.0 if I recall correctly; if not drop a bug report.

I don't think turning off migration controls work. There's an issue in that they occasionally immigrate/resettle to worlds without Biotrophy jobs, tomb worlds (or other unsuitable worlds that your trying to industrialize), or are actively undergoing terraforming into a Machine World (which kills them).

 

[Coconut_Cookie]

So some of the values of the most used civics are changed again. This is good, but when are the worst civics and traits ever gonna get some buffs? All the civics and traits related to ground combat are bad picks and have always been bad picks because they are too situational. There are also traits that have always been bad picks and too few negative traits so you constantly see the same negative ones.

 

[Azhcristokos]

The Shattered Ring start got more interesting, Void Dwellers became less of a micro hell, some weak civics got a buff...really nice stuff.

 

[MathyM]

I am slightly surprised that Meritocracy was not touched, considering how it is "S tier" on the main search hit on Google. It could be nerfed to +5% and still remain a really, really good pick.

It has also been argued, several times in the past, that meritocracy is not unique to democracies and oligarchies - that there are several historical empires where the introduction of meritocracy was even a defining feature (imperial China being a frequently mentioned example).

Have the developers considered any change to Meritocracy along these lines?

• Any government may pick the civic.
• The civic gives +5% output to specialist pops and +5% output to ruler pops.
• The civic prohibits the use of the "Selected Lineages" and "Capacity Boosters" policy options.
  (This would also prevent Meritocratic societies from fulfilling the Totalitarian "Elitism" faction approval condition, locking them to -5 rather than allowing +5, and reducing the maximum approval from 85 to 75. Authoritarian pops could no longer get +10% happiness from faction approval if their government adopts Meritocracy. While dictatorships and monarchies would gain access to the civic, it would still chafe.)

These changes would, in addition to making Meritocracy a slightly less obligatory pick whenever it is available and also resolving the government limitation issues, also help make the egalitarian specialist bonus more special. If anyone wants to make a specialist-focused state, they would have more reason to make a more egalitarian choice of ethics. Instead of Meritocracy being as strong as Fanatic Egalitarian, Fanatic Egalitarian would become twice as strong as Meritocracy as far as specialist bonuses are concerned.

I was also expecting the nerfs to touch Meritocracy. It combos too well with Technocracy, increasing the Research AND Unity output of Scientists, Science Directors, and Artisans (who make the Consumer Good that the scientists now consume more of).

 

[Arithmetician]

@LystAP

Even if not that in particular, Feudal Society definitely could use a buff.

That said, 3.0 has made a Feudal play style much more viable than in previous builds, if you essentially spin off sectors as vassals so that they can grow pops at a much faster rate than your (larger) empire can on its own, and then reintegrate them after a few decades, when they have well-developed planetary populations.

 

[LystAP]

The coming patch will also fix the bug that keeps Primitive Sol from spawning in vanilla games, right?

Could there be new versions of Primitive Earth (i.e. Tropical climate Earth with pre-sapient dinosaurs?)

@LystAP

Even if not that in particular, Feudal Society definitely could use a buff.

That said, 3.0 has made a Feudal play style much more viable than in previous builds, if you essentially spin off sectors as vassals so that they can grow pops at a much faster rate than your (larger) empire can on its own, and then reintegrate them after a few decades, when they have well-developed planetary populations.

I turn off the slider, so it's not really a concern for me. I do not really think Feudal Society is meant to use vassals as breeding pits for your empire.

 

[HFY]

triggered_produces_modifier = { key = habitat_jobs modifier_types = { mult } trigger = { exists = planet planet = { is_planet_class = pc_habitat } } }

Please make this a flag value that a mod structure could support, not a hard-coded planet class.

Thinking about Interestellar Habitats, Equatorial Shipyards, PD Planetary Habitats, and Birch Worlds.

 

[Alfray Stryke]

Just had a thought: now that Shattered Ring has been nerfed into the stone age, does it still remove guaranteed habitables and change habitability? Because I'm not sure either of those are necessary given that the ringworld start is now basically just another planet.

What about Feudal Society, which is one of the worst civics that doesn't really work right now? Is there a way to make it so that vassals under this Civic regain the AI resource boosts that they normally lose when they become a vassal?

So some of the values of the most used civics are changed again. This is good, but when are the worst civics and traits ever gonna get some buffs? All the civics and traits related to ground combat are bad picks and have always been bad picks because they are too situational. There are also traits that have always been bad picks and too few negative traits so you constantly see the same negative ones.

The Custodian team will be keep an eye on balance going forward as well, I'm pretty sure this won't be the only set of changes.

I don't think turning off migration controls work. There's an issue in that they occasionally immigrate/resettle to worlds without Biotrophy jobs, tomb worlds (or other unsuitable worlds that your trying to industrialize), or are actively undergoing terraforming into a Machine World (which kills them).

If you've got bio-trophies auto-migrating to places that don't have bio-trophy jobs can you file a bug report with the save please and we'll get that looked at.

 

[Darklight731]

A great set of changes as per usual! Although I do have to agree with some of the comments mentioning the lack of strength for gestalts. I believe you gave them some nice buffs, but maybe giving some universal, always identical bonus to the ruler, like unity, or output or something would be nice. Alternatively, You could take advantage of the +2 towards encryption they have by making the espionage system more relevant and engaging. That way, people would have to consider the enormous defensive advantage hiveminds get in the information warfare.

 

[Vampire Prince]

These are all great changes and I'm really looking forward to trying them out, BUT...

I'll be honest, I expected Philosopher King to also receive some love when I've read quality of life and change improvements... That CIVIC is so rarely seen and only picked on empires that want their leaders to live LONG life, and even in those cases its not a guarantee of efficiency... Like giving XP boost or something would make it much more eligible and of use, since having +2 leader cap and with new upcoming traditions, getting that 10 level cap won't be an issue or a challenge...

So yeah,

Update PHILOSOPHER KING civic, please

 

[Arithmetician]

@LystAP I love the idea! Jurassic/Cretaceous Earth! In the latter case, Paradox could even have an event (a unique twist on “Asteroid Sighted”) where the asteroid that would kill the dinosaurs appears, and you can either choose to save them (and potentially uplift them later) or let them go extinct, causing Earth to get Tombed (or enter an Ice Age, though that would have been later if handled realistically, geologically-speaking), with the hint that the biosphere might recover one day, and that the small mammals that survived the devastation are quickly becoming the planet’s new dominant lifeforms...

 

[Arithmetician]

Anyways, as for actually buffing Feudal Society, one of two ways I could see that would be fitting thematically:

In addition to its existing effects:

A) Your vassals now contribute some of their naval capacity to you directly, like they used to in now old versions of the game, representing the obligations to provide levies to their feudal lords. Perhaps on the order of at least 10%, though that by itself would likely still be too weak.

AND/OR

B) Tributary income is increased OR vassals provide a small amount of tribute to their liege lord as well (but not as much as an outright tributary... perhaps on the order of 10%... I think that would follow the CK model of about 10% to each successive layer of lieges, IIRC.).

Possibly, food could be included in feudal tribute as well, reflecting that this was a significant part of medieval feudal obligations, but that’s more secondary to the idea, and would be a greater departure from how tribute currently works.

 

[Scyobi_Empire]

Any plans to buff Strength of Legions or Pooled Knowledge?

 

[Ketrai]

Very much liking the changes to shattered ring. Brings it more in line with life-seeded. Although I can see mixing and matching districts pre-upgrade to be quite painful when it's time to upgrade. If it was size 30 you could do a little more and preserve more of your districts when upgrading. Whilst this does shatter my dreams of memey catalytic processor builds, I very much prefer this over "Shattered ring could do this better!" All the time.

Some of the civic changes still feel very insignificant. They could do with being hybridized more. Giving -20% or +20% in a relatively useless stat isn't going to make them much more attractive. especially if there's stronger alternatives available that serve the same purpose. (Stability from memorialists versus +10% happiness, for example.) I'd like enviromentalist more if it reduced all upkeep by a little for example. Unity is still by far the weakest modifier. And sprawl is the weakest empire limiter. Beacon of liberty could really be given a fitting, but more potent bonus like migration, even if it's just a 5%. This would make it a pick for migration builds (migration being much stronger post 3.0)