Stellaris Dev Diary #249 - New Friends

[zZander56]

I actually think the GC resolutions are bad if you're centering your economy around mercs? Like if you're building yourself up to the go to empire for mercenary ships to the point where you want to make it illegal to not hire mercenaries.
Why would you want to give everyone the ability to make their own mercenaries?
Instead of a base bonus to mercenary enclave capacity have each level boost mercenary capacity by a percentage in line with the naval capacity debuff. That way most of the galaxy can't just loophole past the resolution by making their own mercs and leaving the merc specelized empires with no customers.

Thought the same while looking at the resolutions.

 

[CometBliss]

Will protective empires or domineering/protective empires finally go to war for vassalisation or tribute? I never see them ever go for tributary wars or megacorps go subsidiary wars.

 

[Daurien]

If Overlord plays up to its hype, it looks like it'll really affect the game in a lot of new and fun ways. I'm excited for how it will make so many new options, from roleplaying Marauders as Barbaric Despoilers with the Habitats origin as well as playing a merc centered game, to playing one of the various specialist empires (Bulwark sounds like a fantasticly fun and new experience), to the crazy and zany new enclaves (Why yes, I would like a ship's galley made of gold).

 

[rodgerdavies]

TBH, a lot of the headline vassal interaction features of this DLC didn't appeal to me that greatly, but this diary and especially the enclaves and the various options are turning this into something of great interest. Mercenaries done this way is a really interesting approach.

Thanks, as ever, for answering our questions deep into the night!

 

[Grobb]

I like most of this and see what you were going for with the Bulwark as a "wall of the empire" vassal, but agree with others who have said it seems boring and weak due to focusing so much on Starbases and Defense Platforms rather than fleets. I also see why you didn't focus it on fleets, since then they could be called into wars and crush everything in their Overlords way.

However, I believe I have a solution which is a nice middle ground between the current bonuses and directly boosting their entire navy, and hope it can be implemented before release so the Bulwark can be more competitive with the Prospectorium you showed us before.

 

[NilsFabian]

Only if you transfer those debris piles to the Salvagers.

Whats the gain of transfering the debris to the Salvagers?
Normally I am the one sifting through the debris in order to gain new technological insights. Unless we can reclaim X % of the used material for our Stockpiles

 

[stigmund77]

After playing another game of Stellaris, i can see a few ways i could make use of a bulwark, creating a hard barrier at the edge of my empire, breaking up a bigger empire into a bulwark to use against them in a future war. However its hard to see a permanent reason to keep them around and level them up unless I've stopped expanding. Surely i would convert them into other vassal types once i have expanded beyond their boarders and they are no longer at the edge of my empire? Maybe that's their intended use though? I cant see myself keeping them when i have to pay them subsidies for for defensive bonuses if they are no longer on the edge of my empire.

As their primary purpose is defense instead of offense maybe the Bulwark Watch perk would allow them to easily patrol and defend my own and my vassals territory using the relay network? If any pesky enemy fleets manage to sneak past the front lines and into the empire as a whole, having a bulwark patrol engage them would be very useful.

The idea of the Bulwark has grown on me over time and where i was initially disappointed with their lack of offense, their defensive ability could be fun to play around with in certain situations.

Regarding offensive use of vassals i'm not sure if you guys have any plans to allow us to fund bigger fleets for our subjects? I understand it would be hard to balance, maybe it would limit their growth or cost the overlord a lot of upkeep to sustain them? I've had a lot of fun playing around with Marches in EU4, and being this DLC relates to subjects, having a way to fund a war based state as part of my empire would be a lot of fun to play around with.

 

[Verx90]

After playing another game of Stellaris, i can see a few ways i could make use of a bulwark, creating a hard barrier at the edge of my empire, breaking up a bigger empire into a bulwark to use against them in a future war. However its hard to see a permanent reason to keep them around and level them up unless I've stopped expanding. Surely i would convert them into other vassal types once i have expanded beyond their boarders and they are no longer at the edge of my empire? Maybe that's their intended use though? I cant see myself keeping them when i have to pay them subsidies for for defensive bonuses if they are no longer on the edge of my empire.

there is a part about the contract that allow integration , so if you make the contrato for bulwark with integration , you may annex them when they stop being usefull . hopefully you can change theyr specializzation too .

i like to considerate the ""actual"" focus of this expansion, that is to make you play as vassal. so, what you could do as a bulwark .

Regarding offensive use of vassals i'm not sure if you guys have any plans to allow us to fund bigger fleets for our subjects? I understand it would be hard to balance, maybe it would limit their growth or cost the overlord a lot of upkeep to sustain them? I've had a lot of fun playing around with Marches in EU4, and being this DLC relates to subjects, having a way to fund a war based state as part of my empire would be a lot of fun to play around with.

i mean, the scientific vassal has a nerf on the fleet power, but the bulwark and the resource producer retain theyr naval capacity so they are still "proper empire" in regard to naval capacity with bonuses in some direction and costs in others . while the bulkwark has bonuses to starbases and defensive fights , theyr alloy production is untoched so they can still have a military might on the offensive.

 

[VenetianPriest]

Questions on the mercenary enclave:

1. If a mercenary enclave has a primary starbase, that implies they will or can expand and build more. What effect on the enclave does additional starbases have, naval capacity? Can enclaves expand into systems beyond their home system?
2. Since megacorps are especially well suited to be the patron of multiple mercenary enclaves because of the two civics that grant up to 3 mercenary enclave capacity, will there be any competition or internal politics between mercenary enclaves? It would be very interesting to see a mercenary enclave become so powerful that it took over the government of their patron megacorp.
3. Also for megacorps, will we see changes to the existing branch office, mercenary liaison office? I could see a range of changes. For the planet owner, perhaps a small discount on hiring mercenary enclaves whose patron is the owner of the branch office. For the megacorp owner of the branch office, an increase to their mercenary enclave naval capacity would make sense instead of increased naval capacity for the megscorp itself.

 

[Shaeliss]

Am I correct in assuming we need increased Fleet Command Limit (from tech/Traditions) before we can build our first Merc Enclave? Since we start with a max fleet size of 20, or can we fill the quota with multiple fleets, as long as we have the required 50 ships? In short, will we need a Tech/Tradition rush to have mercs online ASAP?

 

[zZander56]

Questions on the mercenary enclave:

1. If a mercenary enclave has a primary starbase, that implies they will or can expand and build more. What effect on the enclave does additional starbases have, naval capacity? Can enclaves expand into systems beyond their home system?
2. Since megacorps are especially well suited to be the patron of multiple mercenary enclaves because of the two civics that grant up to 3 mercenary enclave capacity, will there be any competition or internal politics between mercenary enclaves? It would be very interesting to see a mercenary enclave become so powerful that it took over the government of their patron megacorp.
3. Also for megacorps, will we see changes to the existing branch office, mercenary liaison office? I could see a range of changes. For the planet owner, perhaps a small discount on hiring mercenary enclaves whose patron is the owner of the branch office. For the megacorp owner of the branch office, an increase to their mercenary enclave naval capacity would make sense instead of increased naval capacity for the megscorp itself.

Solid questions. Maybe they'll get answered.

 

[great lakes]

Yeah, I really need to work on that when I can spare the time.



I think merc capacity is the number you can found, not the amount you can be the patron of.

I'm guessing that merc enclaves can be destroyed, with the capacity being refunded to the founding empire?

 

[verybad]

Can Mercenaries become pirates if they are not employed for long enough or unhappy with their patron? Have them do so, or have pirates then possibly be capable of taking over planets and becoming minor states with no initial capability to produce but having to capture enemy stuff (including planets) if they want to start doing so and be "real" states. Have them take over a primitive planet and become a startup. I think that this could add depth (and a lot of border gore) to the game.

Their startup capability would be based on their base power. So, this way a mercenary might be angry with his patron, become a pirate to take some money and then take a world (or be birthed one by another empire or the patron and become a minor startup with full capability to make their own empire or be part of the regular society. If birthed a planet they would be a Duke or something of the nature and in contract with their Overpower that gave them the nobility.


Shenanigans like this would make me VERY happy.

 

[Tamwin5]

After playing another game of Stellaris, i can see a few ways i could make use of a bulwark, creating a hard barrier at the edge of my empire, breaking up a bigger empire into a bulwark to use against them in a future war. However its hard to see a permanent reason to keep them around and level them up unless I've stopped expanding. Surely i would convert them into other vassal types once i have expanded beyond their boarders and they are no longer at the edge of my empire? Maybe that's their intended use though? I cant see myself keeping them when i have to pay them subsidies for for defensive bonuses if they are no longer on the edge of my empire.

As their primary purpose is defense instead of offense maybe the Bulwark Watch perk would allow them to easily patrol and defend my own and my vassals territory using the relay network? If any pesky enemy fleets manage to sneak past the front lines and into the empire as a whole, having a bulwark patrol engage them would be very useful.

The idea of the Bulwark has grown on me over time and where i was initially disappointed with their lack of offense, their defensive ability could be fun to play around with in certain situations.

Regarding offensive use of vassals i'm not sure if you guys have any plans to allow us to fund bigger fleets for our subjects? I understand it would be hard to balance, maybe it would limit their growth or cost the overlord a lot of upkeep to sustain them? I've had a lot of fun playing around with Marches in EU4, and being this DLC relates to subjects, having a way to fund a war based state as part of my empire would be a lot of fun to play around with.

I'll also note that due to the new vassal types, it will be much more likely for you to stop expanding earlier, and leave future conquests as vassals. And if those vassals end up rebelling, then you'd want your bulwarks directly around your territory, not on the actual edges of your domain.

 

[Tamwin5]

You get up to 9 monthly alloys for your assistance.

The aid agency building also gives the overlord a bunch of unity. It still gives loyalty.

 

[DeanTheDull]

The aid agency building also gives the overlord a bunch of unity. It still gives loyalty.

Yes? And? Different jobs with different functions.

9 alloys a month is 1080 a decade per vassal building of this type. This directly translates into fleet power, which can be used to force more vassals, or for other equivalent purposes. Paired with the Ministry of Truth for monthly unity, and you're basically covering 2/3rds of the cost of a habitat with those 2 buildings alone.

The aid agency building is a subsidy. It gives relatively low unity for the cost involved considering it requires you to be employing excess farmers instead of putting them to work as more productive specialists, and the unity and loyalty it provide do not directly translate into hard power.

 

[TranscendentalDragon]

Yes? And? Different jobs with different functions.

9 alloys a month is 1080 a decade per vassal building of this type. This directly translates into fleet power, which can be used to force more vassals, or for other equivalent purposes. Paired with the Ministry of Truth for monthly unity, and you're basically covering 2/3rds of the cost of a habitat with those 2 buildings alone.

The aid agency building is a subsidy. It gives relatively low unity for the cost involved considering it requires you to be employing excess farmers instead of putting them to work as more productive specialists, and the unity and loyalty it provide do not directly translate into hard power.

I mean, if you're getting loyalty for literally reducing happiness with your armies, at least the building could give some loyalty.

 

[Tamwin5]

Yes? And? Different jobs with different functions.

9 alloys a month is 1080 a decade per vassal building of this type. This directly translates into fleet power, which can be used to force more vassals, or for other equivalent purposes. Paired with the Ministry of Truth for monthly unity, and you're basically covering 2/3rds of the cost of a habitat with those 2 buildings alone.

The aid agency building is a subsidy. It gives relatively low unity for the cost involved considering it requires you to be employing excess farmers instead of putting them to work as more productive specialists, and the unity and loyalty it provide do not directly translate into hard power.

You are missing the context. Someone asked why the orbital assembly complex didn't give some unity, given it was a purely helpful holding. The dev replied it's because you got alloys out of it. I'm pointing out that other buildings which grant loyalty also give direct resources to the overlord, so that alone isn't enough of a reason imo.

The orbital construction also requires an upfront investment of 300 alloys for the construction ships that sit around, which cuts into the first decade worth of alloys. And if you wanted alloys, I am almost certain that using the ministry which steal alloys or simply increasing the tribute of advanced resources will give you significantly more. Even if an empire is only making 100 alloys monthly, 15% of that is nearly twice what an orbital assembly building would give.

And given that tributaries and prospectorium have to give an even percentage of ALL basic resources, you will likely have significant amounts of excess food even with only a couple. It's still a cost, since that food could be sold or traded, but it won't be a pop cost.

 

[Verx90]

You are missing the context. Someone asked why the orbital assembly complex didn't give some unity, given it was a purely helpful holding. The dev replied it's because you got alloys out of it. I'm pointing out that other buildings which grant loyalty also give direct resources to the overlord, so that alone isn't enough of a reason imo.

The orbital construction also requires an upfront investment of 300 alloys for the construction ships that sit around, which cuts into the first decade worth of alloys. And if you wanted alloys, I am almost certain that using the ministry which steal alloys or simply increasing the tribute of advanced resources will give you significantly more. Even if an empire is only making 100 alloys monthly, 15% of that is nearly twice what an orbital assembly building would give.

And given that tributaries and prospectorium have to give an even percentage of ALL basic resources, you will likely have significant amounts of excess food even with only a couple. It's still a cost, since that food could be sold or traded, but it won't be a pop cost.

its the same logic of minerals deposit in space. they take years to repay themself, but you still make them .

9 alloys are alot of income . and , differently from all other resources gained , alloys are the most valuable . while research is produced by specialist too, alloys are simply better.
if you see the value , that building is the one that give you more value than any other.

 

[TranscendentalDragon]

its the same logic of minerals deposit in space. they take years to repay themself, but you still make them .

9 alloys are alot of income . and , differently from all other resources gained , alloys are the most valuable . while research is produced by specialist too, alloys are simply better.
if you see the value , that building is the one that give you more value than any other.

the building still has a hefty upkeep and it benefits the subject. It doesn't need to give a lot of loyalty, and it shouldn't give extra loyalty for each construction ship, but... at least 0.25 loyalty for the building itself would be fair.