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Stellaris Dev Diary #26 - Migration, Slavery & Purges

Hi folks!

It has been a very busy week for yours truly, with a load of press demos and, of course, the grand Paradox press conference in San Francisco. Meanwhile, the rest of the team has been hard at work finishing up the revised start-up screens, but that’s not what I’m going to talk about today… Instead, through the confused haze of my jet lag, I thought I’d say a few words about how to manage your population in Stellaris! As you might recall from the dev diary on Policies and Edicts, your initial choice of Empire ethos will heavily affect what you can and cannot do and what your initial population will tend to frown upon. Three of the more interesting Policies concern Migration, Slavery and Purges.

stellaris_dev_diary_26_01_20160321_policies.jpg


Let’s begin with Migration. There are two ways in which Pops can move between planets; spontaneous migration or resettlement. If you are playing a Fanatic Individualist empire, you must allow at least your founding species Pops to move freely as they like (there is an option to disallow alien Pops from migrating - not popular with Xenophiles.) Pops who are allowed to migrate will tend to move to planets they like better than the one they currently live on. This is not just a matter of the Planet Class, but also things like whether the planet has Slaves (which Decadent Pops like), if there are alien Pops on the planet (which Xenophobes dislike and Xenophiles like), and whether the planet lies within a Sector or the core worlds (dissidents and aliens tend to move to Sectors to live with like-minded individuals.) If another Empire is granting you migration access, your Pops will also consider migrating to their planets.

Now, unless you are playing an Individualist Empire, you can also enact a Policy to allow the forcible resettlement of Pops. This will allow you to simply move Pops between planets; at a hefty cost, of course. There is one more way to control migration; fanatic Xenophobes can enact planetary Edicts to strongly discourage xeno immigration. In the same way, fanatic Xenophiles can strongly encourage it...

stellaris_dev_diary_26_02_20160321_resettlement.jpg


So that’s basically how migration works. Next, we have Slavery. Like the migration Policies, you have three options; allow it for all Pops, xenos only, or not at all. Fanatic Individualists cannot play with Slavery unless the founding species has the Decadent trait, and only Xenophobes can limit Slavery to aliens. Why use slaves? Well, reprehensible as it is, enslaved Pops are harder workers (but poorer scientists.) Of course, slaves can - and will - join Slave Factions, although Collectivist slaves are more accepting of their lot, for the Greater Good.

Finally, let’s talk Purges, which is simply a way of getting rid of troublesome Pops… permanently. Naturally, this is something that both your own population and other Empires tend to react to rather emphatically.

That’ll have to do for now. Next week, we’re aiming for a more cheerful dev diary about sound and music!
 
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Can slaves still be resettled if forced resettlement is otherwise prohibited by policy?

What you get for using slaves aside from more production and less science? ... But i still don't understand why one must use (and how) his own, native Pops as slave or allow alien slave pop, on planets there native pop live without penalties.
If I have things right, in the game, you don't gain science output directly from population - from the Extraterrestial Thursday videos, it looks like you get a base amount of 5 science points of each category for your empire, and the rest comes from pops working tiles that have science production and from off-world research stations. That means you aren't actually losing any science output by using slaves, so long as you still have enough non-slave pops to work all your science resources and labs. Therefore, under most circumstances, keeping a portion of your pops enslaved is necessary if you want to reach fully maximized resource output.

Of course, slavery is also going to have disadvantages - I'd expect pops that get enslaved, even ones that share the empire's mainline ethics/species and thus wouldn't ordinarily rebel, to become a lot more unruly.
 
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"In Stellaris speak 'Fanatic Collectivist' essentially means 'Hive Mind' though right, not social collectivism?" Actually it should be social collectivism, because the Ethos are political stances of your nation and a hive mind would be a genetical trait (or created through technology).

I wouldn't say Fanatic Collectivism is hive mind, but hive mind would be fanatic collectivism.

Fanatic collectivism description:
The purpose of the individual is simple: strengthen the collective. To enter the blackness of space we move as one, and we shall not be weakened by wanton separatism.
 
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The migration, slavery, and purging mechanics all sound great!

However, it doesn't answer something that I'm still really curious about (and I know I'm not alone do to people making threads on it)... Not trying to sound ungrateful, I genuinely enjoyed this Dev Diary, but what about Migration Fleets? I figured we'd hear about them here.
 
:-/

Guys, collectivists/individualists don't represent communism/capitalism or left-wing/right-wing politics. Left wing and right wing politics can both be collectivist or individualist. A fascist police state is a right wing collectivist, a centre-right democracy with wide rights is individualist. A communist-stalinist dictatorship is collectivist, a social democratic welfare state is individualistic.

It's authoritarianism vs anti-authoritarianism.
 
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I've read through this thread and the answers that Doommark has given. I have also read each and every DD as well as all released video and commentary thereof. I must say that P.D.S. has done a tremendous job on thinking the game mechanics through here - really impressive. I think there are so many questions because people can not believe that such detail has been paid to the design. It's due to the fact that in almost all previous 4X's, there has always been some gaping hole in the design that cast down the initial euphoria we all have for a new title in this realm of gaming.

I have not been playing any titles - in earnest - for some time. This is the first game I have been thoroughly exited about in years.

Paradox team.....well done! I'm glad you share our passion for intelligent games and design details!
 
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They accept themselves being made to submit for the greater good of the state. Doomdark did say that collectivists don't react as strongly to slavery being done to them. Keep in mind that's it's a relative thing, they might be a little angry at being seperated from their family and then made to mine salt on the lava planet, just not as much as an individualist would.
You're are saying it from Individualistic POV - about family, about being unhappy and such. In fact such things could be viewed as best possible scenario for a member of collectivist species, if you're assigned yo activities different from others be doing, it must mean that this activity is extremely useful for society (or why else society is doing it, if it's not useful? ). Or they could have no opinion at all.

People have argued that some human civilizations have been collectivist. I largely disagree with this, and assert that some human civilizations have been non-individualist, but never outright collectivist in the Stellaris context.
I too, agree, that any humans societies can't be count Collectivist in Stellaris. Even "Utopian" Communism, is about balance between society and individual - society give individual everything to fulfill his needs, while individual is trying to be of best service to society while doing that he want and is best at.
 
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With the correct ethos and government form (Fanatic Collectivist and Spiritualist with Divine Mandate) you can get 150% slavery tolerance. Does this mean your pops will be happier as slaves than they would be free? Or is anything beyond 100% wasted?
 
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I wouldn't say Fanatic Collectivism is hive mind, but hive mind would be fanatic collectivism.

Fanatic collectivism description:
The purpose of the individual is simple: strengthen the collective. To enter the blackness of space we move as one, and we shall not be weakened by wanton separatism.

Ah the old cause/effect nature/nurture debate. I'm sure I've seen a Sci-fi where a race has been brainwashed or indoctrinated to behave essentially as a hive mind.

I don't think Ethos' in Stellaris necessarily represent cultural morals/ideology alone, but instead represent a catch-all to define types of behaviour.
 
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:-/

Guys, collectivists/individualists don't represent communism/capitalism or left-wing/right-wing politics. Left wing and right wing politics can both be collectivist or individualist. A fascist police state is a right wing collectivist, a centre-right democracy with wide rights is individualist. A communist-stalinist dictatorship is collectivist, a social democratic welfare state is individualistic.

It's authoritarianism vs anti-authoritarianism.

Again, you would be right if it was an attribute of government, but it's an attribute of pops. You imply that fascists would be happy to be enslaved, even if it were by hippies (or the 'cool' target to attack on the internet today, 'SJWs'), or that stalinists would happily serve hyper-capitalists. A non-related example in Stellaris terms: pacifist, materialist collectivists would happily serve militarist, spiritualist individualists, because...?

You're are saying it from Individualistic POV - about family, about being unhappy and such. In fact such things could be viewed as best possible scenario for a member of collectivist species, if you're assigned yo activities different from others be doing, it must mean that this activity is extremely useful for society (or why else society is doing it, if it's not useful? ). Or they could have no opinion at all.


I too, agree, that any humans societies can't be count Collectivist in Stellaris. Even "Utopian" Communism, is about balance between society and individual - society give individual everything to fulfill his needs, while individual is trying to be of best service to society while doing that he want and is best at.
Well, then it is self-effacement, not 'collectivism' at all! Again, I see the reasons for gameplay, but both the naming and the descriptions do not make sense in that context.

By the way, love how the game is looking in general.
 
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Is there a way to view the overall number of people in your empire so you can brag about how many billions or trillions of citizens your empire has?
 
i feel that the purge part was not much explained.

Agreed.

Are Purges instantaneous? Do they require armies? Are the population exiled or merely killed?

Is it possible to have mass exodus of purge victims from an Empire? Do you think we could have such mechanic, so they join another Empire to seek revenge, or form their own independant state somewhere else?
 
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Agreed.

Are Purges instantaneous? Do they require armies? Are the population exiled or merely killed?

Is it possible to have mass exodus of purge victims from an Empire? Do you think we could have such mechanic, so they join another Empire to seek revenge, or form their own independant state somewhere else?
Or does it give permanent CB to all xenophile empires for purging last remaining pop of given species?
 
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Or does it give permanent CB to all xenophile empires for purging last remaining pop of given species?

Actually, thats a very good point. Can there be a Xenophile CB to "stop ongoing Purge"?

Edit: actually, it works both way. A Xenophobe species could have a CB for stopping the purge of their own specie that lives under Alien rule.

Akin to Russia's " lets conquer Ukraine to protect the russian minority"
 
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thinking about it - will ther ebe laws about the treatment of slaves? even if slavery is legal, you might still object to having them figth eachother to the death for amusement or putting them in a tiny cage.
 
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Pruge the heretics!
 
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Agreed.

Are Purges instantaneous? Do they require armies? Are the population exiled or merely killed?

Is it possible to have mass exodus of purge victims from an Empire? Do you think we could have such mechanic, so they join another Empire to seek revenge, or form their own independant state somewhere else?

and the consequences, i mean, purge is a big deal, other empires can see that with disgusting?
for what i see beings of the same empire may develop some unique features, its possible enslave a specific group of one race but leave others from this same race free?
 
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