Stellaris Dev Diary #274 - 3.6.0.beta.final.final(1)v2 Copy

[HFY]

2300 is not "very late". i know for lots of people the game is over by then, but personally that's where the game gets interesting for me, and I think it should be possible to restore one section at least by 2300. testing it now, not there yet.

When I can get Mega-Engineering before 2300, then I have no need for extra growth on my shattered ring capital -- I've already found a way to expand and probably have an Ecu or two, and certainly have more than a few breeder colonies.

The only times I've wished for extra growth on my Ring Segment was when I got blocked out of expansion by the map putting me behind an FE and a DE.

 

[luanmameili]

Ringworld colony designations and ecumenopolis planet class now provide both mechanical and organic pop assembly.

Well, mechanical and organic pop assembly are still mutually exclusive? What if servitors and assimilators have secondary species with budding trait?

 

[Abdulijubjub]

Well, mechanical and organic pop assembly are still mutually exclusive? What if servitors and assimilators have secondary species with budding trait?

Then you don't benefit from Budding. Just like you don't benefit from a secondary species with Industrious, as biotrophies can't be miners.

 

[Dementor4]

The third government type available to Hive Minds! (Previously just the standard Collective Consciousness and Ravenous Hive for Devouring Swarms.)


In regular empires your government type impacts which types of leaders are allowed to be election candidates, but in gestalt empires it doesn't do much of anything except change your ruler title - in this case from "Hive Mind" to "Parasitic Mind" - and your empire's subtitle in the diplomacy view. There are no inherent mechanical effects, but government type can be used as a trigger.

You can trigger this government by using the Necrophage origin with the Cordyceptic Drones civic.

It can be used to inform AI behavior. For example, a parasitic overmind might be more likely to take a vassal than to claim and conquer. Parasites might be more likely to try to use espionage and subversion.

 

[Geodynamis]

Has the issue of AI repeatedly colonizing Holy Worlds and getting into hopeless wars with Fallen Spiritualists been addressed? Or general issues with Fallen Empires chastising subjects but trying to apply the penalty to overlord?

 

[FluffyVanguard]

Now that I have been able to look at the code, I would like to clarify some things for myself and others about the psi related changes in the patch notes:

Balanced numbers for the instrument of Desire.

The per pop alloy or unity upkeep from the random event has been reduced by 90%, from 0.75 down to 0.075. I looked through all the modifiers and unless I missed something, this is it.

The Whisperers stability penalty has been reduced. It now comes with a reduction in Unity.

The penalty goes as follows:

Rank -1: stability -7 >> -3; unity ±0% >> -7%​

Rank 2: stability -15 >> -7; unity ±0% >> -15%​

I'm not sure how to feel about this.

The Whisperers will no longer kill up to 8 (!) pops on a planet.

Unfortunately, the event that did this can still kill one pop. Which means both of the planetary debuff events now come with the loss of one pop. Still much better than losing eight.

Changed ethics attraction for the Composer and the Whisperer.

The Composer favours xenophiles over xenophobes, the Whisperers favour materialist over spiritualists, so back to how it is in 3.5.

Players now have a wider choice of leaders to become chosen through their covenant.

Specifically you get four options:

1. Always a ruler
2. Random non-ruler leader
3. Random non-ruler leader or Chosen One (the Eater can also have another ruler in this slot)
4. Always a leader of a specific class based on your patron
   1. A scientist for the Composer and Whisperers
   2. An admiral for the Eater
   3. A governor for the Instrument

You will always be able to choose your ruler or one leader of a class associated with your patron, plus two random rolls, which is great. Although I think imperial heirs count as rulers in terms of leader class, I wonder if they still apply their effect while being heir. If I read this correctly, then your third choice will always be the regular Chosen One, if you have one, as it overrides the random selection.

 

[TrotBot]

When I can get Mega-Engineering before 2300, then I have no need for extra growth on my shattered ring capital -- I've already found a way to expand and probably have an Ecu or two, and certainly have more than a few breeder colonies.

The only times I've wished for extra growth on my Ring Segment was when I got blocked out of expansion by the map putting me behind an FE and a DE.

look i'm only saying just because you don't need popgrowth on your ringworlds doesn't mean the rest of us aren't gonna be happy with the bonus just turn off the clone vat if you find it's too much for you at that point. anyways, assembly takes so long at the point you feel you have "enough" pops, that this change isn't exactly going to create overcrowding for you or anything like that.

 

[Dementor4]

The most substantial change here in my opinion is moving fighter craft tech to sociology. Now you can research them in parallel with either shields and kinetics or missiles, or with energy weapons and armor. In the past I had pretty much forgotten about sociology in the late game, just researching more monthly unity and leader lifespans even though neither are very important at that point in the game. This change is making me reevaluate my navy composition.

 

[luxeritib]

So Whisperers now give +10% research speed, +15% monthly influence, +2 code breaking, -7 stability, -15% unity?
I hope +10% research speed was +15%, like the bonus Whisperers is giving in 3.5.3 version...
Although it's much better than before(-15 stability), Whisperers still seems weaker than others.

 

[HFY]

look i'm only saying just because you don't need popgrowth on your ringworlds doesn't mean the rest of us aren't gonna be happy with the bonus just turn off the clone vat if you find it's too much for you at that point. anyways, assembly takes so long at the point you feel you have "enough" pops, that this change isn't exactly going to create overcrowding for you or anything like that.

For me, the point at which I'm building Ringworlds is after I've "won" the population growth mini-game.

I don't really see how you can get Mega-Engineering early without expanding -- and expanding a lot -- beyond your Shattered Ring homeworld.

 

[ffsffs1]

look i'm only saying just because you don't need popgrowth on your ringworlds doesn't mean the rest of us aren't gonna be happy with the bonus just turn off the clone vat if you find it's too much for you at that point. anyways, assembly takes so long at the point you feel you have "enough" pops, that this change isn't exactly going to create overcrowding for you or anything like that.

I don't think I'll ever understand the "I have too many pops" crowd.

 

[Dementor4]

For me, the point at which I'm building Ringworlds is after I've "won" the population growth mini-game.

I don't really see how you can get Mega-Engineering early without expanding -- and expanding a lot -- beyond your Shattered Ring homeworld.

I didn't have an issue getting mega engineering by 2260 or so in any of my super-tall runs, and this is before they opened up the extra shattered ring segments as garunteed habitables. Being able to forgo entirely any military expenditure is key. You're putting everything into research, and acquiring the gas and consumer goods you need to run it hard. You defense is diplomacy and yes, you need a start that works for it.

 

[Thiend]

So Whisperers now give +10% research speed, +15% monthly influence, +2 code breaking, -7 stability, -15% unity?
I hope +10% research speed was +15%, like the bonus Whisperers is giving in 3.5.3 version...
Although it's much better than before(-15 stability), Whisperers still seems weaker than others.

To be honest I don't know who is choosing Whisperers downsides, but they need to rethink it. Entirely aside from the fact that psionics doesn't have bonuses on par with the other ascensions in the first place still, codebreaking and 15% influence are not valuable. Espionage is nearly irrelevant and if you're having influence trouble by the time you could possibly have a covenant, your fleet is too small. +10% research and -15% unity is already worse than nothing, the stability on top just makes it an even harder sell. If Whisperers is the materialist-like covenant it needs to at least exceed the actual materialist governing ethic in research speed bonuses before downsides can be considered.

 

[Abdulijubjub]

Psionics are now really strong, but, unfortunately, only for members of a Spiritualist federation. The decrease in shroud cooldown and extra 15% resources (for a total of 35%) from jobs are make them crazy good, but only if you pick the "right" federation.

No other federation is tied so directly to an ascension, nor is any other ascension dependent on a federation to be competitive.

And whispers seems to treat monthly unity as if it were cheap. It's certainly less painful than the stability hit it gave before, but unless you're a spiritualist in a spiritualist federation (already drowning in unity bonuses), that monthly unity penalty is still quite painful.

I'm not sure if I like the way they're so tightly coupled and designed around each other.

 

[HFY]

I didn't have an issue getting mega engineering by 2260 or so in any of my super-tall runs, and this is before they opened up the extra shattered ring segments as garunteed habitables. Being able to forgo entirely any military expenditure is key. You're putting everything into research, and acquiring the gas and consumer goods you need to run it hard. You defense is diplomacy and yes, you need a start that works for it.

You are probably a bit better at this game than I am.

I'm hardly ever able to tech-rush without a navy.

 

[Thiend]

Psionics are now really strong, but, unfortunately, only for members of a Spiritualist federation. The decrease in shroud cooldown and extra 15% resources (for a total of 35%) from jobs are make them crazy good, but only if you pick the "right" federation.

No other federation is tied so directly to an ascension, nor is any other ascension dependent on a federation to be competitive.

And whispers seems to treat monthly unity as if it were cheap. It's certainly less painful than the stability hit it gave before, but unless you're a spiritualist in a spiritualist federation (already drowning in unity bonuses), that monthly unity penalty is stillquite painful.

I'm not sure if I like the way they're so tightly coupled and designed around each other.

They need to either double down on psionic=holy covenant or move the shroud CD, Zro edict, and maybe planetary ascension buffs to the actual psionics tree. I put it in the ascension feedback too, but without a Holy Covenant psionics is painfully weak. Which means psionics needs to itself allow you to form one without having both Harmony and Diplomacy.

The two lingering problems there, of course, are that you're dependent on a federation (which in single player means you're at the mercy entirely of the AI, and in multiplayer of at least one other player, to just destroy half of your ascension), and that ironically having done some play testing 1. Materialist empires are capable of forming a Holy Covenant and 2. Because of this, they can also get the Zro edict.

So basically if it's part of the balance for psionic empires it's too hard for them to access currently and also non-psionic empires should at minimum not be able to form them, or even shouldn't get the edict if they join one. A psionic empire with those bonuses feels about right, and I especially like planetary ascension, but they're hard to get and not exclusive so that's actually not part of psionics, and does not apply to psionics balance compared to other ascensions.

 

[Rubel]

Here's my bug: Playing as a Toxic Hive Mind. I have Hive World and Detox perks.
"Hive World" is not on my list of possible terraforming targets when I go to terraform a toxic world.

 

[BebopChicken]

Ahhhh they fixed KoTG's infinite science exploit Sadge

 

[Abdulijubjub]

Ahhhh they fixed KoTG's infinite science exploit Sadge

No, it still works just fine. 10 amenities per knight is plenty to keep your planet happy, even with the stealth nerf to make amenities only affect citizen pop happiness. (Edit: it's always been this way, apparently, and I just never noticed because almost all my pops are usually citizens).

Livestock with a slave processing center have only ~22.5% political power, while a specialist should have 200%. That means 1 citizen knight at 100% happiness for every 9 livestock at 0% will give 200/405=~50% approval. If you have Academic Privilege, it will be 70% approval. If the livestock are nerve-stapled or you managed to stack enough happiness bonuses to get above 0%, you should be well above 80% approval. And egalitarians that stacked Utopian Abundance pops will be even better off (slightly), since their pops will be happier and not make crime.

Ex. this is Utopian Abundance zombies, so they're unaffected by happiness. All the pops affected by happiness are now at 100% after this change, but the enormous number of zombies brings this down to 53% approval. But it's still sitting at 85% stability. If I had all happiness affected citizen pops, this would be 100% stability.

The fact that overcrowding is capped at -20 and decline from overcrowding is broken means that that this infinite science thing still works just fine. Keep in mind that the bonuses for researchers are so enormous that you really only care about keeping stability over 25. +55% resources (going from 25 to 100 stability) is pretty good, but won't make or break it.

Edit: slaves are -75%, not -50% political power. It's even less of an issue than I thought (50, 70, and 80 approval, rather than 30, 50, and 70).

 

[Lorenerd11]

Why does Necrophage conflict with Budding? I'd think Budding would be a decent asset to Necrophage Hives, whose Spawning Drones can only assembly Hive pops anyway, to counterbalance the natural pop growth being used for livestock.