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Stellaris Dev Diary #293 - Introducing Coop

Hello everyone!

One of the major Custodian features planned for the 3.8 ‘Gemini’ update is the addition of two cooperative gameplay modes. Up to five players will be able to control the same empire and work together to play the game as a team.

Two Modes of Play​

Surveys suggested that there are two distinctly different reasons people want to play together.

  • I want to play a PvE game of Stellaris with my friends, either to teach them how to play the game or to have a more relaxed game where we can share the duties of empire management.

Stellaris is a complex game, and learning to play can be difficult without a guiding hand. While some people learn well by watching informative videos created by the community, others might do better playing alongside a friend.

  • I want to play a multiplayer PvP game of Stellaris where teams of players go up against each other.

The cognitive load when playing competitive multiplayer can be at times overwhelming, especially during wars. Being able to split duties with other players on the same team could provide an enjoyable experience.

We’ve tried to support both goals through two different modes of play, with slightly different game rules.

Cooperative PvE​

A new main menu entry exists for starting a Cooperative PvE game where all human players control the same empire.

Main Menu Bar now includes Cooperative mode

This will bring them to the Game Browser screen, where one of them can choose to Host a New Game, just like the regular Multiplayer flow.

The hosting player will go directly to Empire Selection, where they can create a new empire or select one they’ve already created as normal, select the Galaxy Settings for the game, and then begin the session.

Unlike regular Multiplayer, the Cooperative PvE flow bypasses the Game Lobby, and the coop players will not need to select an empire. These players hotjoin directly into the hosting player’s empire once the game has begun.

For most purposes, Cooperative PvE is treated the same way as single player PvE is.

Competitive PvP​

The flow for creating a competitive multiplayer coop game is similar to the normal multiplayer flow. One player will host the server, ticking the “Allow Coop” checkbox.

Host Server window with Allow Coop toggle

Other players can join the Game Lobby and open their empires up for additional players.

Game Lobby with slots open for Coop

pdx_eladrin has opened his empire up for cooperative play.

Example of someone joining a coop empire

After Loner has joined the empire.

Empires that have been opened for cooperative play add an “inspect” icon to the portrait so prospective players can see the details on the empire before deciding to join.

Inspecting the Roccan Resistance

Inspect a coop empire.

For more competitive players, the primary player of the empire will be able to lock their empire, which will add a password requirement to joining or inspection.

New Coop Features​

It’s often useful to know what your teammates are up to. To make it a little easier to understand what’s going on, we’ve added Presence Markers to the UI to show which tabs your teammates are currently using.

Presence Markers and the Goto buttons

pdx_eladrin is currently taking care of our research issues, so Loner can worry about something else.

We're currently exploring the addition of Goto buttons in the top right corner that will allow you to bring your camera to your teammate’s location, but this isn't fully functional yet. (And is unlikely to be during the Open Beta.)

Events will be shown to all members of a coop team, and any of the players can select a response. The window will remain in place with the selected option marked with the icon of the player that made a choice.

Event with an already selected response

Only one option for this one, but it’s nice to know it’s already been selected.

What’s Next?​

Next week we’ll be talking about the 3.8 ‘Gemini’ Open Beta.

As the Coop game modes touch a lot of moving parts, we’d like to gain feedback on your thoughts of how it plays as well as find where desyncs and other bugs crop up before the actual release.
 
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With this change, can we PLEASE get better pause functionality in multiplayer? I get why you don't want pausing to be annoying or abusable in MP, but even back in 2.1 when I started playing, it was so frustrating how neither auto-pause nor Spacebar-to-pause work in multiplayer even when 100% of the human players want them to! Co-op games - no weird hacks or anything, just old fashioned comp-stomps - have always been a thing in strategy games, and Stellaris is the only such game I know of which requires so much reading and decision-making (especially for a new player who doesn't know the events and value of rewards by heart!) yet all-but-forces it to be done in real-time for multiplayer.

So, again, PLEASE let us use auto-pause and spacebar in MP, not just in the new cooperative games but also as an option in all multiplayer!
... this has gotten two Disagrees, and I'd really appreciate it if people could explain why? Why do you want cooperative multiplayer, especially with newbies, to be either much more rushed or require much more mouse-to-the-right-spot-on-the-screen compared to single-player? And more to the point, even if you do want that, why do you want to FORCE other people to endure it?! I said "let us", as in make it optional, which... does not usually get such disagreement.

I've played many cooperative (as different empires) games of Stellaris, most with less-experienced players than myself. It's really really frustrating to them when events pop up too fast for them to read and take action on, and hell, it's frustrating to me when I can't tap Space to give them a breather and have to go click the right spot on the UI. There's just no need for that in friendly games. I'm not talking about Internet randos here, and that's not who this feature is designed for anyhow. Make it opt-in, I don't care, but let us give newbies (or experienced players who are nonetheless OK with easy pausing! We exist!) a way to have a good experience, OK?

Or at least explain why you think we shouldn't...
 
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I think it was back in EU3 when two player could control the same nation, and I always wondered why newer Clausewitz titles didn't include that as well by default. Since it's been in Paradox game before in some way, I won't praise it as an innovation, but it's a very welcome addition nonetheless!
 
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This looks interesting and very nice for helping with onboarding new players. One wish from my side though - when playing with friends we usually have the issue of having the same precursors. It would be great to be able to ensure all human empires can have their own precursor, even if it would mean getting the same precursor.
 
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Well. This doesn't affect me at all. I have no friends. Please continue as you were.
han-solo-star-wars.gif
 
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Now that's a good suprise, I post a suggestion about co-op and a week later this pops up.
It would be nice to facilitate co-op between empires too though, such as starting in a federation and with wormholes already linking the players in a team - just like these mods do: https://steamcommunity.com/workshop...d&section=readytouseitems&requiredtags[]=coop

Honestly, I never start a MP game without Coop Start in Teams these days, so right now stellaris is kinda dead to me until this mod updates. This would be a great opportunity to include it into the base game in some form or another.
 
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But you guys STILL have not added a teams option... My group has only ever wanted one thing out of the game - the option to start with set teams clustered nearby. We don't want single race co-op, we all want to use our own races cooperatively from the start but that has never been an option.

This post gave me hope until I saw it's single race...

Is there any chance of multi-race co-op ever happening?
Will we ever even get a reply?
 
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I have zero interest to play Stellaris or any strategy game in multiplayer, but this whole co-op thing might come in handy in order to get my nephew to try it.
 
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First off, I super mega love the co-op announcement. It alone is likely to get friends back into this game that have been gone for years.

Have got a suggestion that might sound relatively basic but would make a big difference to co-op players.

The idea: It would be great to have options on how decisions are made. Not for every anomaly choice, but certainly for anything that would also trigger a federation vote if players were in different empires (i.e. war / major diplomatic actions). Some of the federation decision-making mechanics are great templates for how co-op partners could choose to interact.

While this might help mitigate trolling, the real reason for this idea is fun. Now that we're doing co-op, let's lean into into fact that multiple players in one empire is inevitably going to mean intra-empire politics - also known as loud/animated debates between friends.

For example the options could be:
  1. Anyone decides. The status quo option set out in this update announcement. Anyone can make major decisions unilaterally.
  2. Rotating leader. This could be especially fun with friends in co-op - if one person is a warmonger at heart, everyone can brace for their time in administration.
  3. Majority decides. Ties = fail. Would provoke many an animated debate over whether the Blorg are friend or foe.
  4. Unanimous decision. Ensure everyone is on board for game-defining calls.
The logic for one of these new potential options can be lifted directly from federation policies. Major irreversible decisions like ascension perks could also fall within this system too.
 
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But you guys STILL have not added a teams option... My group has only ever wanted one thing out of the game - the option to start with set teams clustered nearby. We don't want single race co-op, we all want to use our own races cooperatively from the start but that has never been an option.

This post gave me hope until I saw it's single race...

Is there any chance of multi-race co-op ever happening?
This 100%. My group wants the options mentioned in bold too. It's more fun when everyone gets to design his own empire and engage in light trolling with other empires like sending nonsensical offers in exchange of favors, or spying on your friends. And we really want the option to be next to each other and fight wars together early on, exactly like the Coop: Start in Teams mod does.

I like the attention to coop, but I feel like you're reading the room wrong and offering advanced options before offering the basic ones, Paradox. @Eladrin
 
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You have to have a chat for all the time you send an order or a signal for something, I also think that pings are cool from about 6 to 8 to signal something important like a Danger symbol, stop, do it and etc.
 
Think the Paradox RP server will benefit from this a lot. Last year they did a single empire and multiple people acting as factions and held elections.

It was quite novel and popular but such an interesting concept and now people will actually play this out in game ( providing they stick to their ‘area’).

It’s a great change.

I just hope it can be expanded further to allow teams between empires. I think that was what I and most other people expected from this dev diaries name. Although people can do this themselves by setting up their own relations ‘naturally’ within Stellaris - they just don’t get clustered starts without taking hegemony origin, which isn’t guaranteed anyway.

Hopefully an exciting direction anyway, one of my remade old school favourite games(the 5’ disk version), Carrier Command II did similar recently, people taking controls of certain stations on a carrier and working cooperatively but you could also then have this across multiple carriers ( empires ), so not just strictly coop.

Keep up the great work.
 
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This 100%. My group wants the options mentioned in bold too. It's more fun when everyone gets to design his own empire and engage in light trolling with other empires like sending nonsensical offers in exchange of favors, or spying on your friends. And we really want the option to be next to each other and fight wars together early on, exactly like the Coop: Start in Teams mod does.

I like the attention to coop, but I feel like you're reading the room wrong and offering advanced options before offering the basic ones, Paradox. @Eladrin

Exactly...

It's baffling how we get single race shared co-op before (if ever) actual teams...

I'm no developer, but I can't imagine why it would be so hard to implement clustered teams. If paradox could just comment why this hasn't and/or never will be done ... or, hopefully, when this will be done ...

It's almost been 10 years and still nothing.
 
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... this has gotten two Disagrees, and I'd really appreciate it if people could explain why? Why do you want cooperative multiplayer, especially with newbies, to be either much more rushed or require much more mouse-to-the-right-spot-on-the-screen compared to single-player? And more to the point, even if you do want that, why do you want to FORCE other people to endure it?! I said "let us", as in make it optional, which... does not usually get such disagreement.

I've played many cooperative (as different empires) games of Stellaris, most with less-experienced players than myself. It's really really frustrating to them when events pop up too fast for them to read and take action on, and hell, it's frustrating to me when I can't tap Space to give them a breather and have to go click the right spot on the UI. There's just no need for that in friendly games. I'm not talking about Internet randos here, and that's not who this feature is designed for anyhow. Make it opt-in, I don't care, but let us give newbies (or experienced players who are nonetheless OK with easy pausing! We exist!) a way to have a good experience, OK?

Or at least explain why you think we shouldn't...
You didn't mention that you wanted these changes just for cooperative MP, but MP as a whole. And for general MP, I think they're both bad ideas.

For auto-pause: the more players that are in a game, the more events pop up. If the entire game auto-paused each time anyone got an event, the game would never get anywhere and it would keep stuttering. People might even think the game was bugged if it kept seemingly pausing for no reason.

For spacebar pause: Pausing in multiplayer in general is unhealthy for gameplay. It disrupts the game for everyone else who is trying to do something and should only be done for good reasons (disconnects, a player has something come up and has to step away for a few minutes at an important moment, etc). Having spacebar pause the game just leads to too many accidental pauses. People used to single player who use spacebar to pause the game to check stuff out all the time would pause the game out of habit and degrade the experience of everyone else if they kept pausing the game accidentally. People who really need a pause can click the pause button.

You also didn't mention anything about it being opt-in or a game setting in your first post. If it were a game rule that could be set by the host, I would be fine with it. As a default behavior that cannot be changed, absolutely not. It would probably make games with random players unplayable.
 
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You didn't mention that you wanted these changes just for cooperative MP, but MP as a whole. And for general MP, I think they're both bad ideas.

For auto-pause: the more players that are in a game, the more events pop up. If the entire game auto-paused each time anyone got an event, the game would never get anywhere and it would keep stuttering. People might even think the game was bugged if it kept seemingly pausing for no reason.

For spacebar pause: Pausing in multiplayer in general is unhealthy for gameplay. It disrupts the game for everyone else who is trying to do something and should only be done for good reasons (disconnects, a player has something come up and has to step away for a few minutes at an important moment, etc). Having spacebar pause the game just leads to too many accidental pauses. People used to single player who use spacebar to pause the game to check stuff out all the time would pause the game out of habit and degrade the experience of everyone else if they kept pausing the game accidentally. People who really need a pause can click the pause button.

You also didn't mention anything about it being opt-in or a game setting in your first post. If it were a game rule that could be set by the host, I would be fine with it. As a default behavior that cannot be changed, absolutely not. It would probably make games with random players unplayable.
I get why you don't want pausing to be annoying or abusable in MP
...
let us use auto-pause and spacebar in MP, not just in the new cooperative games but also as an option in all multiplayer!
Emphasis added, since apparently you missed it the first time. Option. The game has a lot of those already (in fact, auto-pause is already an option, it just only works in SP). I guess I could have been more explicit and said something redundant like "add a toggleable option, defaulting to off, to the game settings in the lobby screen" but really, it's not actually a complicated inference given what I said? Maybe just saying "setting" instead of "option" would have been enough (but given that you apparently thought I did not in fact at all get it, I'm not hopeful...)

I truly appreciate your response because apparently my mistake was some people thought I was a drooling idiot who'd never played the game and couldn't figure out obvious things like why auto-pause isn't currently present in MP. This is an update! Apparently I need to spend a bunch of effort on making it clear that I know what I'm talking about even though I've been here since 2018!

But I kind of despair for the state of reading comprehension on this forum (or in general, really).
 
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Sorry pal, but if you had any idea of what you are talking about, you would never suggest something so ridiculous as pause/auto-pause in a Multiplayer game.
 
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Please refrain from borderline personal attacks.
Remain civil and respectful to each other!

Consider this the only warning!
 
Sorry pal, but if you had any idea of what you are talking about, you would never suggest something so ridiculous as pause/auto-pause in a Multiplayer game.
Man, you really did miss the thing where I have already played multiplayer Stellaris - a bunch of times, with friends new to the game and otherwise - and we all lamented the lack, didn't you?

I don't know what kind of MP you play - and frankly I'm happy for you, that it apparently works like you want - but in the vast majority of my MP games (90+%) there's only two human players, and both freely use pause whenever we want, and neither is upset by it. The main pause-related thing we apologize for is both hitting the button at the same time and accidentally canceling each other out, usually in response to some important event! The few exceptions have been only with experienced players and generally in higher-player-count games.

In the specific case of the learning games, it's extremely frustrating for the newbie to have events pile up and time-sensitive actions get covered over by additional time-sensitive actions and then they get flustered trying to pause to stop the deluge, and in every case, the question has always been "why doesn't the game pause automatically for this?".

And sure, they could play in SP, and I could even stream it or watch over their shoulder in the rare case that we're in the same place (I've been playing since late 2018, and much of the time since then has been pandemic), and that'd get them pauses. It'd be less fun for me, though, and frankly also for them; people like doing stuff with friends. They just don't feel like they're being rushed while they do it, or "forced" to take actions in real-time in a way that only an experienced player usually can do well (though even I still prefer to pause while designing ships or fleets).



Also, just checking, are you familiar with the existence of turn-based strategy games? They're kind of a big genre, actually. The best ones support simultaneous turns, or otherwise give the non-active players something to do while waiting for their turns, but many don't even have that and all of them involve "pausing" for every single action. And you know what? They're super popular in multi-player!

Sure, MP games with strangers will often have per-turn time limits, but with friends? I've played at least hundreds and probably thousands of hours of multi-player Civilization/Alpha Centauri, Master of Orion, Heroes of Might & Magic, Total War, Space Empires, Endless Space/Legend, all the way back to ancient stuff like Reach for the Stars, and probably a few others I'm forgetting... and that's not even counting the board games (digital or otherwise). We have literally never enabled turn time limits, because why would we? Even when the game is competitive rather than cooperative, there's no need to rush your friends like that.
 
Personally, I find Turn Based strategy games are boring and they always make me fall asleep -- I prefer Real Time Strategy games only. And pause in multiplayer games don't work -- games like Destiny 2 or even Stellaris MP would suffer with such thing.
 
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One question I would have is there a way to enable this sort of mechanic for when players are ina federation? Aka add a new tier of integration that merges a limit of 5 empires into one new state and is controlled by all 5? with a voting system and maybe some more mechanics to support this new playstyle? maybe even adding a sort of parliament where each former empire gets votes on new diplo deals and decisions and laws? I know thats a lot but since federation came out stuff like this wouldve been awesome!
 
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