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Stellaris Dev Diary #306 - Habitat Experiments

Hi everyone!

I hope your summers have been going well! I got a bit sunburnt, but today we’re back and ready to talk about some of the promising experimentation we’ve been doing with the Habitat system.

We’ll be going through the entire development process in this dev diary, so there’s going to be a lot of ideas that were interesting but were subsequently discarded for various reasons.

Why Are You Looking at Habitats Again?​

The Stellaris Custodian team looks to three primary categories when deciding what to pursue:
  • Directives: Things dictated by me, the Game Director, usually for long term strategic reasons.
  • Community: Things you ask for. Pain points, quality of life improvements, bug fixing, and other good ideas from the community.
  • Passion: Things the individual developers really want to do.

Conveniently, a lot of times all of these align quite nicely.

Let’s start by looking at the history of Habitats in Stellaris.

Habitats were introduced way back in the 1.5 ‘Banks’ update in Utopia.

In 2.3 ‘Wolfe’, alongside Ancient Relics, we removed the Voidborne requirement to build Habitats, adjusted their habitability a little bit, and gave them varying districts based on what they were built over.

The 2.7 ‘Wells’ patch made the next major change to Habitats, adjusting their costs, requirements, and adding multiple tiers.

Since then, we’ve added a couple of special Habitat variants, and various other reworks have shifted their fortunes up and down in the overall balance of the game. Recently, there have been many requests from the community to review the tendency of AI empires building dozens of Habitats when they’re otherwise unable to expand.

Due to how production and population work in Stellaris, this led to an interesting quandary - it is theoretically “correct” for the AI to create many Habitats if it was blocked in, but it was tedious as a player to deal with invading up to a dozen Habitats per system. (The current interactions with population growth have also always been troublesome on the game balance side.)

Habitats were feeling far too common, were too good at certain things, and weren’t capturing the base fantasy that we were looking for. They’re the central pillar of a very popular playstyle that we wanted to preserve, though, so this made them a perfect target for “summer experimentation”.

Everything in this dev diary is considered experimental, and may or may not make it live.
All numbers are placeholders for prototyping purposes only. There is no set release date for any of these changes at this time, but we welcome community feedback.

Different Takes​

One of the most common requests from the Community was to add a Galaxy slider to restrict the use of Habitats. Options could have ranged from banning Habitats entirely, to “Nobody (except Void Dwellers) can create Habitats”, requiring the Ascension Perk to build them again, restricting only the AI, or placing (hard or soft) limits to the number of Habitats that could be built.

We also discussed “what if Habitats cost fractional Starbase Capacity to build” - with Void Dwellers and the Voidborne AP granting discounts to this value. This was more appealing, since the soft cap would control AI use of Habitats nicely without significantly hindering players that wanted to go all-in on them.

These discussions led to some questioning about whether Stellaris Habitats were satisfying the general fantasy well enough, and whether Habitats should be more “hard sci-fi”, with lower habitability bases or even ceilings for those accustomed to planetbound life, and whether we could make changes that would address balance challenges like Hive Void Dwellers.

A More Complex Take​

We made a list of some of the current challenges caused by the existing Habitat system, and this led to the idea of “what if all the Habitats in a system were linked?” We could retain the interesting expansion of Habitats across a system while reducing the burden when seizing the system, and potentially address some of the other problems introduced by an excess number of Habitats in the galaxy.

Alfray threw together an incredibly hacky and utterly unshippable version of this, and continued iterating on it during the Summer.

Under this variant, the first Habitat built within a system is the Central Habitat Complex. Additional Habitats are Support Habitats that add additional space and versatility to the Central Complex. A reminder, many values are grossly unbalanced placeholders in the following screenshots.

At this point I went on vacation, so I’ll turn this over to Alfray to talk about his investigations.

Once More Into the Alfray​

Keep in mind that the numbers shown in the below screenshots are never intended to be the final values, but were used purely for testing purposes of how the systems felt to use and play with.

Firstly, to counteract the expected changes that with minimal Support Habitats, the Central Complex would be small, cramped and overall not great to live on, I gave Void Dwellers extra districts and building slots as a unique modifier (This saw further refinement in a later prototype).

An early version of Void Dwellers

Support Habitats as Megastructures:​


The first iteration of these prototypes made use of Support Habitats as additional megastructures.

Habitat Central Complex, v1
Support Habitat v1
Expanded Support Habitat v1
Advanced Support Habitat v1

In this prototype, we had the maximum amount of each type of resource collection district (Energy, Minerals, Research) limited by the size of the deposits the habitats were constructed over, similar to how buildings for Strategic Resources are limited.

Support Habitats provided additional Districts, Building Slots, and Housing to the Habitat Central Complex, while reducing the Habitability (to reflect the civilian traffic between habitats) as they are upgraded. The final tier also allowed the Habitat Complex to use deposits on moons of their orbited planet.

On the surface, this prototype seems to satisfy our initial requirements and more:
  • Conquering systems with Habitat-spam was easier due to there only being one functional “planet” per system.
  • Constructing multiple Habitats per system felt rewarding as it upgraded your existing colony.
  • The removal of multiple starting colonies removed one of our main concerns for allowing Hive-Minds to have access to the Void Dweller origin - their high pop growth rate due to excessive numbers of spawning pools in the early game. (Iggy had some thoughts on this that he’ll be mentioning in a future Dev Diary).

A Void Dweller Habitat Complex with way too many districts

A Void Dweller Habitat Complex.

A very cluttered system

The rather cluttered system said Habitat Complex is in.

However, the Support Habitats couldn’t be interacted with outside being upgraded, which felt like a major downside. Enemy ships would happily fly past and ignore the Support Habitats, they couldn’t be specialised or downgraded.

All things considered, this prototype showed that making habitats into a single logical planet spread across many entities in a solar system felt good, but megastructures were not the path forward.

Support Habitats as “Starbases”:​


Keep in mind that the numbers shown in the below screenshots are never intended to be the final values, but were used purely for testing purposes of how the systems felt to use and play with.

The below screenshots feature placeholder art and the default art for starbases, their buildings and modules.


The second iteration of this prototype investigated treating Support Habitats as special Starbases (much like Orbital Rings).

In this prototype, the districts available to Habitat Central Complexes depend on the configuration of any Support Habitats in the same system. Thus construction of a Habitat Central Complex would automatically build a neighbouring Support Habitat in orbit of the same planet.

When built, a Support Habitat would start with a module that matches any deposits on the planet it orbits. Each <District> Module on a Support Habitat, gives +3 Max Districts of that type to the Habitat Central Complex.

Upgrading the Support Habitats, still provides the same modifiers as shown in Megastructure Prototype. Additionally each tier of the Support Habitat allows construction of an additional Support Habitat module and the second and third tiers allow construction of a Support Habitat building.

Expanded Support Complex v2

The starting Habitat Central Complex and its neighbouring Support Habitat for a Void Dweller empire.

New Habitat Complex v2

A newly constructed Habitat Central Complex, completely unspecialised.

Allowing the choice of which districts the Habitat Central Complex has access to via specialisation of the Support Habitats brings some interesting changes to how Habitat-dependent empires play.

Due to the nature of the prototype, the buildings for Support Habitats haven’t seen much investigation yet, but would likely include buildings much like those on an Orbital Ring, the lunar extraction support that Advanced Support Habitats experimented with in the Megastructure Prototype above and other such buildings.

Research Habitat Complex, v3 or so?

A Research Habitat Complex, using some of the district capacity to provide hydroponic districts.

Due to the nature of summer experiments, we can’t say if or when this prototype might make it into the live version of the game, but it’s something that we’re interested in exploring further.

…But the fourth one stayed up!​

Thanks, Alfray.

That variant listed achieved a lot of the goals we were looking for, but was cobbled together out of the scripting equivalent of sticks and twine as a quick and dirty implementation. It also required a lot of back and forth clicking that we really weren’t too fond of. So after that one burned down, fell over, and sank into the swamp, we came up with another iteration.

My feedback: Simplify things.

The latest variant we’ve been playing with has been especially promising. In this one, we turned the “Starbase” style Support Habitats into single tiered “pre-specialized” units (renamed to “Orbitals” for UX purposes) rather than requiring Modules to be built on them - so you could build a Mining Orbital, Research Orbital, and so on.

This dramatically simplified the flow of building out Habitats while simultaneously improving the implementation.

It's an Orbital!

Pre-Specialized Research Orbital.

Habitat Transit Hub. Hey wait, Maintenance DRONES?

Unique buildings on the primary habitat complex can increase the effects of the orbitals.

Upgraded Habitat Transit building.

We’re still doing some experimentation with this model, but so far we’re liking what we’re seeing. Technologies can add special Orbital types or buildings that can modify the primary Habitat Complex, and it’s very easy for us (or modders) to add new types.

We've been looking at jobs per districts too - the Complexes have different challenges from the older Habitat system, and further updated the Voidborne Ascension Perk. Void Dwellers will start with its effects (similar to how Teachers of the Shroud empires effectively start with Mind over Matter).

Void Dwellers Final Text
Voidborne Ascension Perk v3.final.final(2)

Void Dwellers get Habitat Build Cost reductions in Traditions.

What’s Next?​

For now, I’d like to get some of your thoughts on what you’ve seen today, which we’ll bring into our internal design discussions. It would also be great to get feedback on whether you like this sort of diary, where we go through the overall process (including the failures).

Next week I'd like to talk about a Summer Experiment relating to leaders that didn’t pan out quite so well, and our plans on how to proceed with that.

See you then!
 
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This is very true, the primary reason we're sharing this early on in development is to get constructive feedback from our players.

Doesn't seem the case:

The "alternatives" were all variations of the same "1 Habitat per system" solution and you guys seem to be pretty dead-set with going forward with that solution, even if it is pretty obvious that allowing the players to restrict the number of Habitats the AI could generate would have been a less simplistic solution.

You could have even allowed for an "average" Habitat cap by having it vary by +/-1 and allow for some more variety and that would have still limited the bother for the players (both in warfare and late-game lag).

Does seem that there is an incredible amount of enthusiasm on part of the community for the mining stations or research stations?

However they are still built elements that produce something that cannot be customized and merely allow the exploitation of a resource (which is equally unexciting than a mere modifier)...

Your "Orbitals" are just like mining stations and research stations...and you are replacing the opportunity of having different "artificial planets" for those!
 
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So in their summer breaks, they get some free time to explore "how to solve problem / improve <x>". You're just seeing Alfrays initial work on this followed by Eladrins feedback - followed by another iteration of that work. Maybe you can just say you don't like the solution to Habitats but then come up with something else to move the conversation forward :)

Ok...yes...you are right...maybe I am over-dramatizing it...
 
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This is very true, the primary reason we're sharing this early on in development is to get constructive feedback from our players.

I'd really prefer if you guys could find a way to "connect" ship sizes (which Space Stations) and planet classes (which Habitats are) to enhance the feel that a "Habitat" is like a gigantic space station...like the Ceres station in The Expanse!

Would be expecially cool if a station could have modules and components (as spaceships) to enhance it and also districts and buildings (as a planet).

Maybe the effect of modules and components could be replicated with deposits once a starbase transitioned into a habitat.

For the AI limitation, I'd rather to see a limit selected by the player and/or possibly AI weights that make less likely for the AI to convert a starbase into a habitat.

I'd really like if that allowed to do things like having starbases/habitats "disguised" as planets that cosmetically look like planets, but are factually starbases or habitats...

( Frankly I'd like so see also bizarre things like having "disguising components" that factually work like Stealth but change the entity of the ship or starbase into that of a specific asteroid or planet... )
 
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STOP DOING HABITAT COMPLEXES
  • HABITATS ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE 1 PER SYSTEM
  • YEARS OF DEVELOPMENT YET NO SOLUTION TO HABITAT SPAM
  • Wanted to build a big world for a laugh? We had a megastructure for that: It was called "RINGWORLD"
  • "Yes please give me FOUR OPTIONS of Habitat Complex. Please give me CHOICES" - Statements dreamed up by the utterly deranged

LOOK at what Developers have been demanding your Respect for all this time, with all the suggestions and feedback we built for them (These are REAL Experiments, done by REAL Developers):

Hydroponics Orbital ?????? Habitat Transit Hub ??????? Support Habitat Modules ????????? Decreasing Habitability ?????????

"Hello I would like 5 Orbitals please"

They have played us for absolute fools
 
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This is very true, the primary reason we're sharing this early on in development is to get constructive feedback from our players.

On that note, I don't know if I understood the visualization plans correctly, but will the support structure spawn entities over deposits like mining stations?
EDIT: Just went through the OP again, and yes, it seems like this is the plan. As the subtext implies, the systems could get rather cluttered, which is not so nice to look at.

If I may suggest, I would like to see habitats grow into megastructures, literally, with each addition, so you do not build EXTRA stations but rather wings or extensions to the habitat to grow it.
Like I wrote earlier, making habitats long-term investments that grow into their own kind of mega colonies like Ringworld segments or the Planet Upgrades.
 
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I really hope some modder will setup a mod to undo all these absolutely awful "design ideas" that the Paradox team is wasting hours and hours just to hide the fact that they want to reduce habitats to 1 for each system. I really hope there will be a mod to delete each and every addition of this awful and ill-conceived "experiment" and bring back the current habitat system.
It is simply awful! You are just filling the galaxy with other uninteresting cosmetic elements as mining stations and research stations which are neither source of excitement nor of discussion on part of anyone within the community.

Why you don't turn the entire system into a single unexciting aggregated UI panel in which planets and any mega-structures added just adds unexciting modifiers?

Seems a *great idea* to "rework" Stellaris!

If you do without all elements within the system and turn them into individual UI panels, the game would probably be incredibly lag-less....
No, Foxosaur.

These are not "just ideas":

They have come up with the unimaginative "1 Habitat per system" solution and were so callous as to produce four fake variations of the same exact idea to throw a smokescreen in our face and hide the fact that they came up with the least imaginative and brilliant solution and are dead-set with going for it!

Given some people seem to fail do understand that "Aggregating into One" is exactly the same as "Having just 1", their smokescreen seem to have worked pretty well with a fair amount of people... ...it's like the strategy of giving two fake alternatives to try to sell your idea!

You seem to believe that the orbitals are cosmetic. They are not. In many ways (jobs/housing, building slots) they are the near functional equivalent of building new habitats, at least on a alloy/influence cost vs. capacity basis.

What substantial, valuable gameplay is lost between:
  • 4 habitats giving you 4x4=16 districts and 4x4=16 building slots (with only 2x4=8 being usable, because 2 slots per habitat are taken up by e.g. minerals processing or obligatory planet uniques like psicorps. Keep in mind that you will want to spend districts on housing if you use the building slots for any jobs.
  • vs.
  • 1 big habitat and 6 orbitals (equivalent in cost to the other 3 habitats) giving 4+6=10 districts, 6 jobs/12 housing from orbitals (roughly 2 working districts and 1 housing district's worth), plus 9 building slots (3 of which are taken up by booster buildings, obligatory planet uniques, and the transit hub). Plus a bunch of clerk jobs (if you want that).
What I see are:
  • A slight reduction in total districts/usable building slots. The player will be missing three districts and two building slots. These are preliminary numbers, so it may even swing the other way.
  • A loss of building slots for void borne, as you'll get the same total number on paper, but run into the arbitrary 12 slot cap extremely quickly. This is unfortunate.
  • Lower pop growth/assembly. Good riddance (except for void dwellers, who will need some compensation).
  • Fewer planet uniques, and fewer ruler pops. I think this is actually a meaningful loss (except for the assembly buildings, see above).
  • A loss in total capacity if you pack every system completely full (as an individual orbital is roughly 1/2 of a habitat, and 1/4 of a fully upgraded habitat).
  • No trade districts. But there are clerks on the transit hub: it's possible (though not confirmed) that this is where the merchants from the Mercantile traditions will go (giving one per orbital, as it currently gives 2 clerks per orbital).
  • edit: better sprawl, as you're getting more jobs/housing without districts, and fewer colonies for the same jobs/housing.
It's worth noting that most of those differences completely disappear if you build one habitat per system (as then you're just going back to the old habitat setup), so this is only an issue if you're actually cramming every system full.

Do you have a gameplay objection, with the potential for accommodation? Or do you just object to the very idea of having only one habitat per system, putting you in direct opposition, with no compromise possible, with a larger number of players who zealously advocate for the inverse (because they don't like the micro of tons of habitats)? If it's the former, what would you like changed? If it's the latter... I'm sorry. I don't have a horse in this race (I don't use habitats very much but also never found them very annoying), but I don't think you're going to win. Because without a substantial gameplay/game design difference, the aesthetic that more players enjoy will win.

Regardless, I'm 100% certain (quite literally, not hyperbole) that outright stating that the evil devs are trying to trick us into not seeing that there's only one habitat (in the dev diary that explicitly says "there's only one central habitat", written in response to people asking to limit systems to only one habitat) is neither accurate nor going to help them actually listen to your complaints.

Edit: after looking at the numbers again, I think orbitals are more like 1/3 of an unupgraded habitat. That makes them more expensive in alloys/influence per capacity, but cheaper in sprawl. Most people will close the clerks, so you can't really count those. You get 4/3 of a district in jobs (so 1/3), but 4/3 working districts and 1/4 of a housing district (so roughly... 1.5833 districts?) in housing, and 1/2 a building slot (about 1/4 of a habitat, if you assume that 2/4 slots per habitat go to obligatory booster buildings for e.g. mineral processing and assembly).
 
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STOP DOING HABITAT COMPLEXES
  • HABITATS ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE 1 PER SYSTEM
  • YEARS OF DEVELOPMENT YET NO SOLUTION TO HABITAT SPAM
  • Wanted to build a big world for a laugh? We had a megastructure for that: It was called "RINGWORLD"
  • "Yes please give me FOUR OPTIONS of Habitat Complex. Please give me CHOICES" - Statements dreamed up by the utterly deranged

LOOK at what Developers have been demanding your Respect for all this time, with all the suggestions and feedback we built for them (These are REAL Experiments, done by REAL Developers):

Hydroponics Orbital ?????? Habitat Transit Hub ??????? Support Habitat Modules ????????? Decreasing Habitability ?????????

"Hello I would like 5 Orbitals please"

They have played us for absolute fools
It just doesn't have the same impact without the image format. :(
 
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To showcase some further iteration that we've been working on - we're exploring Orbitals that give additional jobs to the Transit Hub/Interchange buildings.

View attachment 1009573

View attachment 1009574
The orbitals seems like (roughly) 1/3 of a base habitat in total capacity (+1 district, +1 non-clerk job, +2 housing, +.5 building slots) for 1/2 the cost, though obviously the particulars of that are likely to change. The important part is that they're some fraction of a full habitat (for, appropriately, a faction of the cost). Are they going to be buildable on asteroids/moons as well so that there are more total orbitals than there were habitats before, or is the total capacity of each system (when crammed completely full) going to go down by a bit?

I'm not sure whether that would be good or bad either way, but I assume void dweller players would really like to know (or at least have total system capacity considered in the experiments).

Also: there doesn't seem to be a trade district option available in habitats anymore. Is it actually gone, or is it just offscreen in the screenshots/not yet added to the experiment? If the district is going away, would you consider adding +1 merchant per orbital to the transit hub/interchange (to go with the 2 clerks) if the player has the relevant tradition? That would keep that merchant spam niche open for void dwellers.
 
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You seem to believe that the orbitals are cosmetic. They are not.

They are A-B-S-O-L-U-T-E-L-Y cosmetic!
You build one and you merely get a modifier to the only existing Habitat!

You cannot touch a single thing of those f...g "orbitals"!

I'd rather have buildings or deposits with no visible element for such a measly impact and being able to customize multiple Habitats as I see fit.

The problem with those people who want to push the "1 Habitat per system" solution down my throat is that I do not say "You should not be able to limit the AI to 1 Habitat per system"...I say YOU SHOULD if YOU WANT! Being able to set the AI to 1-2-3 Habitats per system does precisely that!

In essence the issue is that you're pushing down the throat of other people (i.e., me) a solution that I find simplistic and awful instead of giving people the opportunity to have the game work the way they want by giving freedom of choice!
 
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The biggest problem with all of this is that, just like with Sprawl and Leader Caps, it's trying to solve a symptom of a much bigger problem, instead of tackling said problem itself.

They have all these 'solutions' to 'solve' habitat spam, but all the while it seems they never bothered to ask the question they should have asked from the start:

"Why does habitat spam happen in the first place?" And the answer to that is that it's part of a much bigger problem, one I and a few others have dubbed the 'Wide Problem'. That being, it's simply much more advantageous to play wide than it is to play tall. And why is that? Well, it all boils down to one single factor:

Pop Growth. More Pops = More power. More planets = more pop growth.
Ergo, spamming habitats = more pop growth = more pops = more power. It's not rocket science. It's the same reason that colonizing 9 tombworlds and one gaia world gives you more power than 3 gaia worlds, because at the end of the day, habitability doesn't matter as much as it should. Pop growth does. And the more things producing pops, the better.
And coincidentally, it's why spamming habitats are the 'correct' thing to do. Because more habitats = more planets to grow pops on = more power in places that it actually matters.

You will never solve the habitat problem in a satisfactory way until you solve the wide pop growth problem, because the habitat problem is simply an extension of that.
 
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The biggest problem with all of this is that, just like with Sprawl and Leader Caps, it's trying to solve a symptom of a much bigger problem, instead of tackling said problem itself.

They have all these 'solutions' to 'solve' habitat spam, but all the while it seems they never bothered to ask the question they should have asked from the start:

"Why does habitat spam happen in the first place?" And the answer to that is that it's part of a much bigger problem, one I and a few others have dubbed the 'Wide Problem'. That being, it's simply much more advantageous to play wide than it is to play tall. And why is that? Well, it all boils down to one single factor:

Pop Growth. More Pops = More power. More planets = more pop growth.
Ergo, spamming habitats = more pop growth = more pops = more power. It's not rocket science. It's the same reason that colonizing 9 tombworlds and one gaia world gives you more power than 3 gaia worlds, because at the end of the day, habitability doesn't matter as much as it should. Pop growth does. And the more things producing pops, the better.
And coincidentally, it's why spamming habitats are the 'correct' thing to do. Because more habitats = more planets to grow pops on = more power in places that it actually matters.

You will never solve the habitat problem in a satisfactory way until you solve the wide pop growth problem, because the habitat problem is simply an extension of that.
To mostly-copy from the previous thread so that it's part of the discussion (sorry, not trying to spam you):

This is addressing that problem. 4 habitats have more pop growth than 1 habitat and 6 orbitals. It still has a few perverse incentives (you're encouraged to spam one habitat in every system for growth instead of building up), but that has a much lower cap than 3-4 per system, and it's certainly better than it was.

They're trying to keep the other, actually-intended use for habitats (more places for pops to live/work, and a viable path for void dwellers) intact while nixing the degenerate spam, to some extent.

The other, longer winded version of this post (with a slightly different focus), for those who just saw this thread:
 
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The biggest problem with all of this is that, just like with Sprawl and Leader Caps, it's trying to solve a symptom of a much bigger problem, instead of tackling said problem itself.

They have all these 'solutions' to 'solve' habitat spam, but all the while it seems they never bothered to ask the question they should have asked from the start:

"Why does habitat spam happen in the first place?" And the answer to that is that it's part of a much bigger problem, one I and a few others have dubbed the 'Wide Problem'. That being, it's simply much more advantageous to play wide than it is to play tall. And why is that? Well, it all boils down to one single factor:

Pop Growth. More Pops = More power. More planets = more pop growth.
Ergo, spamming habitats = more pop growth = more pops = more power. It's not rocket science. It's the same reason that colonizing 9 tombworlds and one gaia world gives you more power than 3 gaia worlds, because at the end of the day, habitability doesn't matter as much as it should. Pop growth does. And the more things producing pops, the better.
And coincidentally, it's why spamming habitats are the 'correct' thing to do. Because more habitats = more planets to grow pops on = more power in places that it actually matters.

You will never solve the habitat problem in a satisfactory way until you solve the wide pop growth problem, because the habitat problem is simply an extension of that.

I have also the impression that they are dealing with a symptom (in a simplistic way) instead of tackling the problem.

Given that mechanically habitat spamming seem to be the right path for the AI to take, one should simply allow the player to selectively sabotage the AI's decision process by disallowing to a more or less extreme degree that option for the AI.

The players complaining about conquering all habitats becoming a chore are simply bothered by the fact that they'd like things to be simplified to gain an edge over the AI and, possibly, to limit the impact of the AI's decisions on their game's fluidity (by avoiding late-game lag)...so why the "solution" simply couldn't be a "hack" to selectively sabotage the AI in that sense?

Why all this smokescreen to hide the fact that they are going for 1 Habitat per system to reduce the bother for the conquering player and the later-game lag for the player in general?

People who seem enthusiast about having just 1 Habitat per system seem to be pretty much likely to either build no habitat or build just 1 per system...so why people wh'd like to take other paths hindered by this design choice?
 
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This seems to be the general consensus so I'll continue with these. We were a bit worried that people might get extremely attached to some of the early ideas that we decided weren't feasible for various reasons, but I figured that the amount of valuable feedback we would receive would be worth that risk.

When you do this more often this will happen sooner or later. Esp. when the final solution turns out to be unsatisfactory (for whatever reason) once released to the game.
But I hope even after such a situation occurs you will keep up your positive outlook.
 
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They are A-B-S-O-L-U-T-E-L-Y cosmetic!
You build one and you merely get a modifier to the only existing Habitat!
A modifier to the existing habitat giving bonuses in rough proportion to its cost is a non-cosmetic effect. I'm not sure what to say if you claim it isn't.

Are you trying to say that whether or not there are literally separate habitats/colonies is the only thing that matters, and that the jobs/housing/building slots that that habitat gives you are purely cosmetic? Why do you want a separate habitat, if not for the jobs/pops/buildings?

Is it the roleplay potential of having multiple customizable colonies in one system that you want?

On the point of your original post: I guarantee someone will make a mod that lets you build as many habitats per system as you want. It would be super easy to do.
 
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I think a Fortress Orbital that can and will be easily deactivated by raw fleet firepower is a huge liability, unless the deactivation only impacts the housing provided and not the Soldier jobs. We don't want defensive armies that go *poof* during a system invasion.

If you want to make Fortress Orbitals useful, I think you gotta give it more survivability with health and firepower scaling accordingly to that system' starbase level, as well as having them add starbase Defensive Platform capacity. The more Fortress Orbitals, the more defensive platforms in the system (maybe even around each orbital).
That would mean that Fortress oriented habitats/systems would not only be hard to conquer but the system itself would be beating at fleets harder than before, which is the real battle that matters nowadays.


On another note, the richness of certain system deposits could give modifiers to Habitat jobs (not +districts amount).

Example:

• Orbital over [2~3] Mineral deposit - no modifier.
• Orbital over [4~5] Mineral deposit - High Quality Minerals (+15% minerals from jobs).
• Orbital over [6 or more] Mineral deposit - Exceptional Quality Minerals (+25% minerals from jobs).

Or you could instead sum the total amount of Minerals in the system (with built Orbitals) and designate thresholds for those modifiers based on those (and the same for most other resources). That means an additional layer of strategic thinking on habitat placement and specialization.

Example:

• Orbitals deposits sum 2~4 Minerals - no modifier.
• Orbitals deposits sum 5~8 Minerals - High Quality Minerals (+15% minerals from jobs).
• Orbitals deposits sum 9 or more Minerals - Exceptional Quality Minerals (+25% minerals from jobs).

Or scale the max number of Mining districts by the deposit sizes (Not over all sum in the example):

Example:
Deposit size 1 = +1 max Mining Districts
Deposit size 2 = +2 max Mining Districts
Deposit size 3 = +4 max Mining Districts
...
Deposit size 6 = +12 max Mining DIstricts

With a not 1:1 ratio for larger deposits that would allow for strategic planing during expansion with high Density systems beeing significantly more valuable than spread out deposits over several systems.
 
Is it the roleplay potential of having multiple customizable colonies in one system that you want?

Yes. That is what I want.

On the point of your original post: I guarantee someone will make a mod that lets you build as many habitats per system as you want. It would be super easy to do.

I really hope you'll be right on this. If that were to be the case, no problem then...
 
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Yes. That is what I want.
You may, then, have more success in communicating if you don't try to claim that all the concrete mechanical changes are merely cosmetic, and that the ones that affect your roleplay (aka, are cosmetic) are the real ones.

"Cosmetic" doesn't generally mean "doesn't matter". It means it affects the way it looks/feels and how pleasant it is to work with. The aesthetics and roleplay of the game are important, and "while this may be mechanically an improvement to others, it hampers my roleplay" is valuable feedback. Without those aesthetics, a lot of Stellaris boils down to a spreadsheet crossed with Microsoft Paint, so they definitely matter.

Would the orbitals mechanic feel more substantial if:
  • Individual orbitals could be distinctly named, and they showed up on the habitat as features with the same name instead of just a counter. Ex. The central habitat is just called Sol System Coordination center, and it has planetary features for Martian Orbital Mining, Jovian Gas Harvesters, etc.
  • The features added above have their effects attributed directly to them (ex. mousing over Martian Orbital Mining showed "+1 district, +1 building slot, +2 housing, +1 miner job", etc.) with the transit hub building taking on a role more like an Ranger Lodge does for blockers, rather than providing benefits directly (ex. "+1 district from orbitals" instead of "+6 districts" when you have 6 orbitals).
  • When orbitals are disabled by combat, they gain blockers on the habitat while disabled instead of the counter simply decrementing.
Note that all the above are literally cosmetic and don't affect gameplay (and they're just a few quick ideas: there are certainly other options). But (to me) they would make the orbitals feel like real structures where people live/work instead of just a counter that goes up. At least a bit.

Also, I'm not sure those particular changes are feasible. But they seem like something the system is capable of doing.

"It doesn't feel right, I want more mechanical weight behind the roleplay" is valuable feedback, I assume. We could be brainstorming ways to make that happen (or just relaying that we want it) instead of arguing about whether or not the change is irredeemable garbage that shouldn't see the light of day.
 
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I love the idea of Orbitals, and I think devs should take the opportunity to rework mining/research stations into that system too.
 
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I personally would have just liked a game rule that allowed them, allowed them for Voidborne, disallowed them or put an hard cap on them (just like for planets). I mean, the rework as a whole is great, but if every system still allows an habitat, I feel that in long games it will allow an unchecked growth of pops.
I completely understand that in multiplayer they are necessary, but in single player I value much more Stellaris running smooth in late game.
Having caps in single player games is sometimes is just practical, in my opinion.
 
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