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Stellaris Dev Diary #306 - Habitat Experiments

Hi everyone!

I hope your summers have been going well! I got a bit sunburnt, but today we’re back and ready to talk about some of the promising experimentation we’ve been doing with the Habitat system.

We’ll be going through the entire development process in this dev diary, so there’s going to be a lot of ideas that were interesting but were subsequently discarded for various reasons.

Why Are You Looking at Habitats Again?​

The Stellaris Custodian team looks to three primary categories when deciding what to pursue:
  • Directives: Things dictated by me, the Game Director, usually for long term strategic reasons.
  • Community: Things you ask for. Pain points, quality of life improvements, bug fixing, and other good ideas from the community.
  • Passion: Things the individual developers really want to do.

Conveniently, a lot of times all of these align quite nicely.

Let’s start by looking at the history of Habitats in Stellaris.

Habitats were introduced way back in the 1.5 ‘Banks’ update in Utopia.

In 2.3 ‘Wolfe’, alongside Ancient Relics, we removed the Voidborne requirement to build Habitats, adjusted their habitability a little bit, and gave them varying districts based on what they were built over.

The 2.7 ‘Wells’ patch made the next major change to Habitats, adjusting their costs, requirements, and adding multiple tiers.

Since then, we’ve added a couple of special Habitat variants, and various other reworks have shifted their fortunes up and down in the overall balance of the game. Recently, there have been many requests from the community to review the tendency of AI empires building dozens of Habitats when they’re otherwise unable to expand.

Due to how production and population work in Stellaris, this led to an interesting quandary - it is theoretically “correct” for the AI to create many Habitats if it was blocked in, but it was tedious as a player to deal with invading up to a dozen Habitats per system. (The current interactions with population growth have also always been troublesome on the game balance side.)

Habitats were feeling far too common, were too good at certain things, and weren’t capturing the base fantasy that we were looking for. They’re the central pillar of a very popular playstyle that we wanted to preserve, though, so this made them a perfect target for “summer experimentation”.

Everything in this dev diary is considered experimental, and may or may not make it live.
All numbers are placeholders for prototyping purposes only. There is no set release date for any of these changes at this time, but we welcome community feedback.

Different Takes​

One of the most common requests from the Community was to add a Galaxy slider to restrict the use of Habitats. Options could have ranged from banning Habitats entirely, to “Nobody (except Void Dwellers) can create Habitats”, requiring the Ascension Perk to build them again, restricting only the AI, or placing (hard or soft) limits to the number of Habitats that could be built.

We also discussed “what if Habitats cost fractional Starbase Capacity to build” - with Void Dwellers and the Voidborne AP granting discounts to this value. This was more appealing, since the soft cap would control AI use of Habitats nicely without significantly hindering players that wanted to go all-in on them.

These discussions led to some questioning about whether Stellaris Habitats were satisfying the general fantasy well enough, and whether Habitats should be more “hard sci-fi”, with lower habitability bases or even ceilings for those accustomed to planetbound life, and whether we could make changes that would address balance challenges like Hive Void Dwellers.

A More Complex Take​

We made a list of some of the current challenges caused by the existing Habitat system, and this led to the idea of “what if all the Habitats in a system were linked?” We could retain the interesting expansion of Habitats across a system while reducing the burden when seizing the system, and potentially address some of the other problems introduced by an excess number of Habitats in the galaxy.

Alfray threw together an incredibly hacky and utterly unshippable version of this, and continued iterating on it during the Summer.

Under this variant, the first Habitat built within a system is the Central Habitat Complex. Additional Habitats are Support Habitats that add additional space and versatility to the Central Complex. A reminder, many values are grossly unbalanced placeholders in the following screenshots.

At this point I went on vacation, so I’ll turn this over to Alfray to talk about his investigations.

Once More Into the Alfray​

Keep in mind that the numbers shown in the below screenshots are never intended to be the final values, but were used purely for testing purposes of how the systems felt to use and play with.

Firstly, to counteract the expected changes that with minimal Support Habitats, the Central Complex would be small, cramped and overall not great to live on, I gave Void Dwellers extra districts and building slots as a unique modifier (This saw further refinement in a later prototype).

An early version of Void Dwellers

Support Habitats as Megastructures:​


The first iteration of these prototypes made use of Support Habitats as additional megastructures.

Habitat Central Complex, v1
Support Habitat v1
Expanded Support Habitat v1
Advanced Support Habitat v1

In this prototype, we had the maximum amount of each type of resource collection district (Energy, Minerals, Research) limited by the size of the deposits the habitats were constructed over, similar to how buildings for Strategic Resources are limited.

Support Habitats provided additional Districts, Building Slots, and Housing to the Habitat Central Complex, while reducing the Habitability (to reflect the civilian traffic between habitats) as they are upgraded. The final tier also allowed the Habitat Complex to use deposits on moons of their orbited planet.

On the surface, this prototype seems to satisfy our initial requirements and more:
  • Conquering systems with Habitat-spam was easier due to there only being one functional “planet” per system.
  • Constructing multiple Habitats per system felt rewarding as it upgraded your existing colony.
  • The removal of multiple starting colonies removed one of our main concerns for allowing Hive-Minds to have access to the Void Dweller origin - their high pop growth rate due to excessive numbers of spawning pools in the early game. (Iggy had some thoughts on this that he’ll be mentioning in a future Dev Diary).

A Void Dweller Habitat Complex with way too many districts

A Void Dweller Habitat Complex.

A very cluttered system

The rather cluttered system said Habitat Complex is in.

However, the Support Habitats couldn’t be interacted with outside being upgraded, which felt like a major downside. Enemy ships would happily fly past and ignore the Support Habitats, they couldn’t be specialised or downgraded.

All things considered, this prototype showed that making habitats into a single logical planet spread across many entities in a solar system felt good, but megastructures were not the path forward.

Support Habitats as “Starbases”:​


Keep in mind that the numbers shown in the below screenshots are never intended to be the final values, but were used purely for testing purposes of how the systems felt to use and play with.

The below screenshots feature placeholder art and the default art for starbases, their buildings and modules.


The second iteration of this prototype investigated treating Support Habitats as special Starbases (much like Orbital Rings).

In this prototype, the districts available to Habitat Central Complexes depend on the configuration of any Support Habitats in the same system. Thus construction of a Habitat Central Complex would automatically build a neighbouring Support Habitat in orbit of the same planet.

When built, a Support Habitat would start with a module that matches any deposits on the planet it orbits. Each <District> Module on a Support Habitat, gives +3 Max Districts of that type to the Habitat Central Complex.

Upgrading the Support Habitats, still provides the same modifiers as shown in Megastructure Prototype. Additionally each tier of the Support Habitat allows construction of an additional Support Habitat module and the second and third tiers allow construction of a Support Habitat building.

Expanded Support Complex v2

The starting Habitat Central Complex and its neighbouring Support Habitat for a Void Dweller empire.

New Habitat Complex v2

A newly constructed Habitat Central Complex, completely unspecialised.

Allowing the choice of which districts the Habitat Central Complex has access to via specialisation of the Support Habitats brings some interesting changes to how Habitat-dependent empires play.

Due to the nature of the prototype, the buildings for Support Habitats haven’t seen much investigation yet, but would likely include buildings much like those on an Orbital Ring, the lunar extraction support that Advanced Support Habitats experimented with in the Megastructure Prototype above and other such buildings.

Research Habitat Complex, v3 or so?

A Research Habitat Complex, using some of the district capacity to provide hydroponic districts.

Due to the nature of summer experiments, we can’t say if or when this prototype might make it into the live version of the game, but it’s something that we’re interested in exploring further.

…But the fourth one stayed up!​

Thanks, Alfray.

That variant listed achieved a lot of the goals we were looking for, but was cobbled together out of the scripting equivalent of sticks and twine as a quick and dirty implementation. It also required a lot of back and forth clicking that we really weren’t too fond of. So after that one burned down, fell over, and sank into the swamp, we came up with another iteration.

My feedback: Simplify things.

The latest variant we’ve been playing with has been especially promising. In this one, we turned the “Starbase” style Support Habitats into single tiered “pre-specialized” units (renamed to “Orbitals” for UX purposes) rather than requiring Modules to be built on them - so you could build a Mining Orbital, Research Orbital, and so on.

This dramatically simplified the flow of building out Habitats while simultaneously improving the implementation.

It's an Orbital!

Pre-Specialized Research Orbital.

Habitat Transit Hub. Hey wait, Maintenance DRONES?

Unique buildings on the primary habitat complex can increase the effects of the orbitals.

Upgraded Habitat Transit building.

We’re still doing some experimentation with this model, but so far we’re liking what we’re seeing. Technologies can add special Orbital types or buildings that can modify the primary Habitat Complex, and it’s very easy for us (or modders) to add new types.

We've been looking at jobs per districts too - the Complexes have different challenges from the older Habitat system, and further updated the Voidborne Ascension Perk. Void Dwellers will start with its effects (similar to how Teachers of the Shroud empires effectively start with Mind over Matter).

Void Dwellers Final Text
Voidborne Ascension Perk v3.final.final(2)

Void Dwellers get Habitat Build Cost reductions in Traditions.

What’s Next?​

For now, I’d like to get some of your thoughts on what you’ve seen today, which we’ll bring into our internal design discussions. It would also be great to get feedback on whether you like this sort of diary, where we go through the overall process (including the failures).

Next week I'd like to talk about a Summer Experiment relating to leaders that didn’t pan out quite so well, and our plans on how to proceed with that.

See you then!
 
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You may, then, have more success in communicating if you don't try to claim that all the concrete mechanical changes are merely cosmetic, and that the ones that affect your roleplay (aka, are cosmetic) are the real ones.

"Cosmetic" doesn't generally mean "doesn't matter". It means it affects the way it looks/feels and how pleasant it is to work with. The aesthetics and roleplay of the game are important, and "while this may be mechanically an improvement to others, it hampers my roleplay" is valuable feedback. Without those aesthetics, a lot of Stellaris boils down to a spreadsheet crossed with Microsoft Paint, so they definitely matter.

Would the orbitals mechanic feel more substantial if:
  • Individual orbitals could be distinctly named, and they showed up on the habitat as features with the same name instead of just a counter. Ex. The central habitat is just called Sol System Coordination center, and it has planetary features for Martian Orbital Mining, Jovian Gas Harvesters, etc.
  • The features added above have their effects attributed directly to them (ex. mousing over Martian Orbital Mining showed "+1 district, +1 building slot, +2 housing, +1 miner job", etc.) with the transit hub building taking on a role more like an Ranger Lodge does for blockers, rather than providing benefits directly (ex. "+1 district from orbitals" instead of "+6 districts" when you have 6 orbitals).
  • When orbitals are disabled by combat, they gain blockers on the habitat while disabled instead of the counter simply decrementing.
Note that all the above are literally cosmetic and don't affect gameplay (and they're just a few quick ideas: there are certainly other options). But (to me) they would make the orbitals feel like real structures where people live/work instead of just a counter that goes up. At least a bit.

Also, I'm not sure those particular changes are feasible. But they seem like something the system is capable of doing.

"It doesn't feel right, I want more mechanical weight behind the roleplay" is valuable feedback, I assume. We could be brainstorming ways to make that happen (or just relaying that we want it) instead of arguing about whether or not the change is irredeemable garbage that shouldn't see the light of day.

Ok...I will clarify:

When I say "cosmetic" I actually mean that these "orbitals" seem to mostly be visible entities which have limited mechanical impact but have no customizability:
They are a somewhat like a "cardboard stage"...you see their exterior appearance (as a visible entity in the system), but inside there is very little and there is not really a habitable plac. The whole Habitat Complex + Orbitals idea feels like the Habitat Complex is an actual "house" surrounded by cardboard fake stage house fronts!
For example, when I say that "mining stations" and "research stations" are "cosmetic" is because, essentially, once you build them and unlock the associated resource, you can no longer do anything meaningful about them.

I find that incredibly dissatisfying because kills the impression of a "living system" for me!

A planet (artificial or not) or a starbase instead allows you do do a lot of things with it:
- You can fit it with different interesting buildings (or modules)
- You can choose to develop some districts over others.
- You can see your populations doing things there.

For me customizability is a very important bit of playing this game...I really enjoy designing ships, customizing stations, etc...

"Mining stations" and "research stations" aren't satisfying as game elements because they could be empty and dead for one'd know...while in theory are stations which contain people who man them, they give the same "vibe" of an unmanned satellite!

While I know that the AI can exaggerate in spamming stuff (i.e., spamming habitats) and that could be bothersome both for warfare and for lagging, I really enjoy the "living universe" element in Stellaris...having one aggregated Habitat Complex and these orbitals that feel "dead" as "mining stations" and "research stations" would really kill that vibe for me...
 
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While I know that the AI can exaggerate in spamming stuff (i.e., spamming habitats) and that could be bothersome both for warfare and for lagging, I really enjoy the "living universe" element in Stellaris...having one aggregated Habitat Complex and these orbitals that feel "dead" as "mining stations" and "research stations" would really kill that vibe for me...
By this logic planets are "aggregation of cities". Do you want every district on planet to be micromanaged city with its own building slots etc.? Stellaris is empire management game, so for me having Habitat Complex representing all major inhabited orbital installations in system makes sense.

I understand that having things like generic mining/research stations (and in this case having orbitals instead of full habitats over every major celestial body) kill their individual personality, but considering scope of Stellaris having every object fully customizable is just not feasible.
 
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Ok...I will clarify:

When I say "cosmetic" I actually mean that these "orbitals" seem to mostly be visible entities which have limited mechanical impact but have no customizability:
They are a somewhat like a "cardboard stage"...you see their exterior appearance (as a visible entity in the system), but inside there is very little and there is not really a habitable plac. The whole Habitat Complex + Orbitals idea feels like the Habitat Complex is an actual "house" surrounded by cardboard fake stage house fronts!
For example, when I say that "mining stations" and "research stations" are "cosmetic" is because, essentially, once you build them and unlock the associated resource, you can no longer do anything meaningful about them.

I find that incredibly dissatisfying because kills the impression of a "living system" for me!

A planet (artificial or not) or a starbase instead allows you do do a lot of things with it:
- You can fit it with different interesting buildings (or modules)
- You can choose to develop some districts over others.
- You can see your populations doing things there.

For me customizability is a very important bit of playing this game...I really enjoy designing ships, customizing stations, etc...
I disagree that the orbitals have limited mechanical impact. Three orbitals is roughly a full habitat in terms of housing and jobs, though more expensive in alloy/influence, and cheaper in sprawl. The difference between two habitats and one habitat with three orbitals is near zero.

If by "mechanical impact" you mean they don't have levers and knobs to adjust: they have roughly 1/3 the things to fiddle with, in rough proportion to their reduced cost. With 6 orbitals, you get to choose six jobs (2 districts) from orbital type, and get 6 districts/3 a building slots to customize as you choose (instead of 8 districts, and 4 non-obligatory building slots from 2 habitats).
  • You can still choose to fill it with different buildings.
  • You can still choose to develop some districts over others (or grant jobs directly, which is equivalent and more granular).
  • You can still see your pops working in those districts/job slots.
The opportunities for customization are mostly relocated to the central habitat, but they're still there.

The problem is just attribution, then, at that point. It needs to feel like the jobs/customization is coming from the orbital.

I can't argue with what you find makes a compelling narrative, but you have all the same districts, most of the same buildings (with extra housing instead), and all the same jobs worked by the same pops. If it just doesn't feel as satisfying unless it's split into two sections, I guess mods are the answer. A lot of people are equally passionate about the opposite. They really, really want these condensed so they don't spend endless hours working on their carpal tunnel and eye strain trying to track down every habitat that hasn't yet been conquered in a war, or scrolling through enormous lists to find Belgium III Habitat (distinct from Belgium VI Habitat) which they're still building up, instead of having one per system which they can reasonably tab through. Having half the habitats with 2x the districts, 2x the buildings, and 2x the pops would be an improvement (to them) and they seem very convinced of that.

"Mining stations" and "research stations" aren't satisfying as game elements because they could be empty and dead for one'd know...while in theory are stations which contain people who man them, they give the same "vibe" of an unmanned satellite!
They basically are unmanned satellites. I agree that they're generally non-interactive, and mostly forgettable. But orbitals (as proposed in this dev diary) are not mining stations. They literally do nothing except cost upkeep without pops to run them, and basically nothing without building/filling the districts they grant in addition to their job.

While I know that the AI can exaggerate in spamming stuff (i.e., spamming habitats) and that could be bothersome both for warfare and for lagging, I really enjoy the "living universe" element in Stellaris...having one aggregated Habitat Complex and these orbitals that feel "dead" as "mining stations" and "research stations" would really kill that vibe for me...
I hope that mod comes swiftly after release, then. Based on 3.8, there may be 10 that all restore the old state available the day after release (if many feel as strongly as you).
 
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[...]
It was pretty miserable.

In our current internal iteration, Support Orbitals can be attacked and disabled much like Starbases, and will repair themselves on a monthly tick if there are no hostiles in the system. We're still experimenting with what will happen to the main habitat when they get disabled.

[...]
In the initial iteration, habitats will retain their current designations. We do acknowledge that mixed-purpose stations will likely become more common after these changes, so we'll keep an eye on this and see if changes need to be made to them.
Appreciate the time taken for the response - thanks.

You/Alfray partially answered some of what I was curious about as a follow-up with Alfray's next message - namely, will there be a different way to add jobs that aren't tied to the district (particularly with regard to industrial district designations) - but this brings a few questions to mind :

To showcase some further iteration that we've been working on - we're exploring Orbitals that give additional jobs to the Transit Hub/Interchange buildings.

View attachment 1009573

View attachment 1009574
So, you've shown a few of the possible ideas for Orbitals here that create jobs. I'm not sure if those are all of the possible ones yet (or even if you're sure on that point!). Beyond being curious about whether there will be alloy/CG Orbitals to make up for the lack of being able to specialize habitats (multiple in the same system) to each... is it possible for the system owner (not system occupier) to deconstruct an Orbital, or otherwise change what's in that location?

Typically this sort of deconstruction hasn't been permitted for megastructures. And if one must choose between Orbitals that give jobs of a particular type over a particular planetary body, and they are "permanent", it's something to think about what this means in terms of are you locked in to a choice that isn't going to be what you want later on. For example, do you make a food-producing Orbital in your home system early for a Void Dweller but that really hurts in a the long run because you can't put something more valuable there later -- if it is not possible to deconstruct the old Orbital, that is.

Even if deconstruction is possible, paying a big outlay of Influence to swap out a job type is a new concept entirely in Stellaris (as far as I'm aware), and might merit some careful thought. If there's a way to swap the type of Orbital for only the (non-Influence) construction costs, more akin to how you can swap buildings and districts, some of those issues may fall out. You may of course already have considered this etc. with your current design.
 
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I'll go ahead and say that I like building Habitats and like playing Void Dwellers and I actually build multiple Habitats per system. In fact, I tend to build up the Void Dweller home system first before building new ones outside of it in some of those "no planets, only Habitats" challenge/RP runs people do on occasion and I'd rather be able to still do that without being barred from future features and DLC because it got patched out in favor of one big Habitat supported by Orbitals (that can, again, seemingly be made to have individually more Districts/Housing/Jobs/Pops than some planets and moons which doesn't feel thematically consistent with the same feature that has 4/6/8 Districts and intentionally cannot unlock all Building Slots in the current release).

Just throwing this out here so it doesn't look like 99% of players are absolutely on board with the idea of Habitats being turned into one per system super worlds.
 
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The changes look interesting, I'm not 100% sure how they'll work out in terms of satisfying gameplay terms.

As a mostly void dwellers megacorp only player, if I don't have to build and manage 50+ habitats anymore that'd be great, since managing branch offices can be enough of a faff.

If the habitat limit per system is 1, it does seem to be encouraging "wide" gameplay for void dwellers, may need to consider adding some empire size penalty from support habitats. I also hope that the specialised support habitats aren't hard limited (and instead "limited" by what's actually in the system, and the increasing penalties).

For now, I’d like to get some of your thoughts on what you’ve seen today, which we’ll bring into our internal design discussions. It would also be great to get feedback on whether you like this sort of diary, where we go through the overall process (including the failures).
Can't speak for others, but I certainly do appreciate these types of dev diaries, and would love to see more :)
 
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To showcase some further iteration that we've been working on - we're exploring Orbitals that give additional jobs to the Transit Hub/Interchange buildings.

View attachment 1009573

View attachment 1009574
I like it a lot. However I am wondering if the transit building could be (a) merged with the habitat capital building, (b) be a single tiered building or (c) put the first tier functionality on the capital building and make the interchange as "ministery of production"-style building for larger population habitats.

My reasoning is:
Would you ever build a habitat without this building? Is there any reason not to upgrade them as soon as possible?
Furthermore: how effective are supporting orbitals without the second tier building?

I see the appeal of having the transit as a building. However it feels like such core infrastructuur to the whole concept of a habitat, that I wonder if it is really necessary to have it as a separate building.
 
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The changes look interesting, I'm not 100% sure how they'll work out in terms of satisfying gameplay terms.

As a mostly void dwellers megacorp only player, if I don't have to build and manage 50+ habitats anymore that'd be great, since managing branch offices can be enough of a faff.

If the habitat limit per system is 1, it does seem to be encouraging "wide" gameplay for void dwellers, may need to consider adding some empire size penalty from support habitats. I also hope that the specialised support habitats aren't hard limited (and instead "limited" by what's actually in the system, and the increasing penalties).


Can't speak for others, but I certainly do appreciate these types of dev diaries, and would love to see more :)
I think you will need quite a few supporting habitats before the main one does more than a standard size 18 planet. And even the largest habitat complex will probably not be much more empire size efficient then ecumenopolises or ringworld sections.
 
(that can, again, seemingly be made to have individually more Districts/Housing/Jobs/Pops than some planets and moons which doesn't feel thematically consistent with the same feature that has 4/6/8 Districts and intentionally cannot unlock all Building Slots in the current release).
You're taking the complex as a whole, and the current habitats individually, when a system full of upgraded habitats now (say with just 5 planets) would have 40 districts, which is larger than any complex we've seen in these teaser images, and definitely larger than any normal planet.

And being able to unlock every building slot makes sense since you only get 12 per system, unlike now with my 5 habitat example where you'd have 60 (and could probably unlock 40 of those). This is really moving habitat customization/specialization from a per 'planet' to a per system level, but from what I can tell, the gameplay is still there.

Given the more restricted building slots, I'm hoping there's a way, maybe through designations, to get unity districts, and bringing back trade districts too, because those will be the most hampered by this change. Maybe by overriding the Industrial districts or something.
 
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Since Planetary Rings have been a no-brainer choice over Habitats to orbit Colonized Planets, I think we could introduce a little bit of synergy for the latter, while also having a building that acts as an alternative to the ever-needed Transit Hub.

New building:

Transit Elevator

  • Can only be built on Habitats over Colonized Planets. Mutually exclusive with Transit Hub.
  • Surplus housing, law enforcement and ammenities get shared between Habitat and Planet.
  • Same Governor.
  • Pops have a high auto-resettlement chance between both.
  • Unique buildings which provide job specific bonuses can only be built in either colonies, but the bonuses extend to both.
  • Pop growth, assembly and habitability remain independent, as well as any buildings related to those.
  • All Habitat district types are unlocked.

This would be a more long term investment when compared to Planetary Rings, also sacrificing the Ring specific buildings' bonuses and starbase features.
Instead you get a more proper extension of your world, while the Habitat Complex is somewhat limited by its own maximum upgradeable size (Orbitals disabled).

I don't know how complicated is that idea to be implemented but that experiment seems like a good opportunity to integrate both types of worlds, specially in the KotTG origin (and one of the Payback outcomes). Also enables a new Elysium like origin.
 
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The concern about planetary designations appears valid to me. It would be great to hear from the development side what considerations are being made as far as how designations will work for habitats now...
I feel like this should be a new system for a new aspect of the game because this all seems REALLY different from the habitats players have been used to for so long, habitat slider is a good idea to reduce lag though. I feel like habitats should just have costs reduced or remove voidborn penalties or lessen them if balancing is a concern. Build slots could be a huge issue if you only get 12 buildslots per system with habitats instead of up to 10* the number of planets you could build habs on. Rare resources are so important for mid and late game and buildslots from habs are so important there, to lose that would be a huge blow, same with pop growth buildings and farms and barracks. admin complexes as well (until ecumpolis which requires rare resources which use buildslots). this is a huge advantage of tall bc at some points they matter more then districts when you only have 10 systems. Also far easier to balance workers and specialists by having worker pops live in habs with mining and energy districts while administrators and refiners live on research and industrial habs. voidborn is a completely different strat then other strategies in the game and should stay different.
 
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Doesn't seem the case:

The "alternatives" were all variations of the same "1 Habitat per system" solution and you guys seem to be pretty dead-set with going forward with that solution, even if it is pretty obvious that allowing the players to restrict the number of Habitats the AI could generate would have been a less simplistic solution.

You could have even allowed for an "average" Habitat cap by having it vary by +/-1 and allow for some more variety and that would have still limited the bother for the players (both in warfare and late-game lag).

Does seem that there is an incredible amount of enthusiasm on part of the community for the mining stations or research stations?

However they are still built elements that produce something that cannot be customized and merely allow the exploitation of a resource (which is equally unexciting than a mere modifier)...

Your "Orbitals" are just like mining stations and research stations...and you are replacing the opportunity of having different "artificial planets" for those!
facts, this should be a new system and form of habitation, and current habs should just be buffed through increase bonuses in voidborn orgin ascensionperk. We could also take a huge hit interms of build slots, going from up to 7/9 planets worth of build slots a system to 12 buildslots looks like a huge nerf, not a buff.
 
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hi idk where to send this so i sent it here but i have a problem with the multyplayer i play on the Ps5 with my friends. And we have a lot of problems with desync to where i go where my friend is on his screen but on mine he isnt. And i can just build stuff there and het cant see that so because of that its not worth it at the moment to play multyplayer. Witch is a shame because the single player is really fun but playing it with my friends would really make it more fun so idk i hope u can fix this . English isnt my first language so i hope u understand what i typt
 
I really like the idea of habitats taking up starbase capacity, it would prevent the AI from building one on every planet and making insane lategame lag
 
The main issue with them taking up starbase capacity is that their primary use case is one in which you have restricted starbase capacity because you have relatively few systems.
 
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Merging all the Habitats into one big Habitat/Planet really undermines the unique play style of Void Born. Also it begs the question of why not just do that will all planets? Why even bother with individual planets if an entire systems economy is compressed into a single planetary window? I mean it's basically just a + District count upgrade akin to the Master of Nature AP or Orbital Ring Buildings that give extra districts. It's basically a one Habitat per system which just feels extremely limiting.

It also removes the unique specialized Habitat feel. There goes Fortress habitats, I mean do you really wanna waste all your building slots for the ONLY habitat in the system on strong holds? What about FARMS!!! Void Dwellers can only build farm buildings which need building slots and with limit buildings.

Ever since Habitats were introduced I've used them to address a major issue with managing my empire, which is LIMITED BUILDING SLOTS. You need lots of strategic resource buildings late game and the easiest way to get them is Habitats.

With the recent changes to allow bombard to capture with no ground troops you have most AI Habitats drop in seconds. Even before that most AI have almost no troops on them so it's like, "Oh Troops are landing.... Our Troops have seized a world". And when it comes to AI habitat spam I just laugh. If people think these AI got a "lot" of habitats they never seen my void born empire with multiple systems where every planet has a habitat.

This whole topic feels like it's coming out of left field and I think that is because it's trying to address the symptom rather than the cause. Empires need to expand and the ONLY way to do that is with Habitats. As you get to mid game your planets fill up, you run out of specific districts Energy/Mineral/Food, so you have to grow your empire. The choices are Vassalize someone for tribute, Conquer enemy Planets, or Build Habitats. Since the first two aren't always an option as you might not have the military or might be Pacifist that only leaves Habitats. Thus if your not building Habitats to expand come mid-game or engaging in wars of conquest your empire is likely stagnating and/or falling behind everyone else.

And quite frankly Habitats are pretty weak and were intentionally designed to be as they didn't want to replace planets. But there in lays the problem. You need a lot of them to offset what you can get from one planet. The bonuses you get planet side are so much better than Habitats, especially with orbital rings, that a Miner Job on planet compared to on a Habitat will produce far more Minerals. This is true of most jobs and thus you need more habitats with more population.

While I do think Habitats need a boost I don't think a complete overhaul of them into a one per system is the right approach. Instead they should be more upgradable as currently more habitats is often better than upgrading. You only get 2 extra districts for each upgrade and no additional building slots which means if you are going for a farm habitat you need more habitats, same with Admin habitats, and so on for any other such. Also since Habitats can't get Orbital Rings or their bonus buildings their production lags behind greatly.



As for the AI spamming Habitats how about some other options to expand for mid-game? I'm a fan of Gigastructures and I build very few Habitats compared to vanilla because there are tons of options for terraforming planets. Heck you can even colonize gas giants. Basically we need more options to expand our empires. The easiest fix for the AI is to just turn off their ability to build habitats, problem solved since that's the main complaint. Instead of they will continue to habitat spam it's just we are gonna merge them all into one Habitat build so it's easier to conquer.
 
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Goodbye Habitats. I will miss you.

No more 15 habitats per system growing 15 pops at the same time, each with its own building slots giving me tons of options on what to build. It was fun while it lasted.
 
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I know it's slightly tangent to the proposed habitat changes, but as mentioned in the article one of the issues you're having to dance around with habitat design is the effect putting multiple colonies in a system has on population growth and the way it influences 'correct' strategic play. That fundamental problem - the fact that an empire's population growth is relatively fixed per-colony but can be dramatically increased by having more colonies - has been a huge source of design tension for years, has warped a whole range of game systems around itself, and seems to be constantly cropping as a problem that needs to be solved whenever a new mechanic is added or an old one is changed.

So why do it like that?

If each empire had a single 'pool' of population growth based on its existing population, which was then allocated between that empire's colonies similar to the way immigration growth already works, wouldn't the whole problem virtually evaporate, and all its knock-on effects with it? As-is, one of the major reasons to spam habitats (and colonies in general) is that each new colony is a whole new population growth bar, so it accelerates your population growth. There's a whole bevy of game mechanics that exist just to limit the inherent advantage you can gain that way. But does it actually make any sense? Why would a population of a given size grow twice as fast just because it's split between twice as many places, if those places aren't actually housing-limited in the first place? If anything, it should be the other way around - density begets growth, until space and resources become a limiting factor.

If e.g. each pop just contributed a fractional amount of pop growth to an empire-wide pool, you could still modify each pop's contribution based on local colony conditions the same way colony pop growth modifiers work now, you could distribute that growth back out to individual colonies based on local conditions and population the way immigration growth works now, you could still scale overall population growth the same way you do now, but the 'more colonies = more growth' incentive would be removed and players would only be incentivized to add new colonies if they either needed the local resources/strategic location or all their current colonies were 'full' - which means there'd be no need for the AI to 'want' to spam habitats unless it actually has pops to fill them, there'd be no balance issue with letting Hive Minds have Void Dweller, a system filled with habitats would be a consequence of high population density instead of a means to achieving it, the overall balance of tall vs wide strategies would be a lot easier to manage, the 'narrative' of population growth as a mechanic and the strategic incentives surrounding it would much more closely resemble the way it works in real populations, and a lot of the time and effort and headaches invested in trying to solve, re-solve, or work around the perennial population growth problem that rears its head every time a new or changed mechanic touches the number of colonies a player can expect to have or how early they can expect to get them could be spent elsewhere instead.
 
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