Stellaris Dev Diary #311 - Chiseling Away

[ValinShadow]

So the upcoming Buff for Clerks (the 1% thing) is not enough to make up for the existing Nerf for the majority of the game where it matters. So the buff is not enough or just plain wrong.
But I forgot the exact reason, why were clerks nerfed to begin with?
And what is the final consensus on a real solution to make it the most balanced as possible? What solution has the best game design in mind?

tbh I'm not sure why the devs felt the need to further nerf clerks/trade. maybe they mistakenly think the +1 amenity is crazy valuable?

 

[MrFreake_PDX]

When can we expect this update? I'm very excited for it.

The open beta is available now on Steam, and updated with these latest changes. (on Steam) Right click Stellaris -> Properties -> Betas tab -> Choose "Stellaris_test" from the drop-down!

how to ask question for Reddit AMA wher to post them it wiil bie live or questions will be collected before?

Questions will be asked and answered live, we might put up a post 30 minutes before we start so a few questions build up when we're ready.

 

[zZander56]

Have you given any thought towards rebalancing the Mutual Aid trade policy?

 

[zZander56]

Will any Branch Office holdings be made to provide Trader jobs rather than Clerk jobs to the client planet?

 

[Skydragonace]

I stated this last week with the patch notes, and I'll say it again: With these habitat changes, void dwellers are literally the worst origin in the game now.

With the removal of multiple small specialized habitats in the same system, you've put all your eggs in one basket with the one large one, but at the same time, you've removed trade and leisure districts, thereby removing even more specialization from that hab. So far, in just that change alone, we've killed off multiple playstyles in this game, something I never like seeing. However, it's just as bad for literally anyone playing void dwellers. You have a good starting point, which is good, but you will find that VERY quickly levels out, and soon you are falling further and further behind. There aren't enough resource deposits for habs to build orbitals around, and since that's how you've designed this clunky system, it's just awful for trying to keep up with other empires.

As a supporting feature, habitats are decent enough. In payback and toxic god origins, they are a straight up boon with these changes, as larger habitats for those means better bonuses. However, they also can settle planets. Void dwellers do not have this luxury, which makes them fall behind very fast. Previously, you could compensate for that by building specific habitats over resources that provided you enough to overcome this... Now though... It's to the point where you need to settle as many systems as possible, except if you do that, your resource cost will be too high, but if you don't do that, you won't have enough... It's a catch 22 scenario.

Again, Paradox, please reverse these habitat changes, or at least, make void dwellers use the current, multiple smaller habitat system. Or, give void dwellers a path to settling planets. This could be associated with an ascension path or something, but letting them settle on planets once again would help this out. This new system, in it's current form, is fundamentally broken, and the only way to fix it is to increase resource deposits everywhere, except by doing that, you buff every other empire, which puts void dwellers even further behind. THIS. DOESN'T. WORK. You will always be chasing your tail, but never catching it.

 

[Muhrks]

...
The dev diary will be the 3.9 ‘Caelum’ Release Notes.
...

Please mark the changes to the beta release notes, so we don't have to read all the things, we already know, again. Thanks =)

 

[luanmameili]

Restoring the Payback habitat correctly spawns a major orbital

Major orbital? What if the homeworld is a moon?

 

[Rafss]

+1% specialist production would make me run a mix of Clerks on my Ecus and Ring Worlds.

That sounds wonderful!
The way I see clerks, this would fit so well; to me they are like assistants to all kinds of jobs, the everyday office workers in companies and the state helping those function like well oiled machines.
Clerks are the base of the real world service sector, the largest sector in any urban economy, and it so happens that urban worlds in stellaris have the most specialist jobs; it fits!

 

[luanmameili]

Machine Intelligences now have access to the Harvesters trait

How about lithoids? Currently they cannot have Agrarian, but can have Harvesters for cyborgs.

 

[SS Boss]

For one second I thought "Mechromancy should reanimate mechanical leviathans too, why not ?" but then I remembered that I still want that as a feature for the Scavengers civic. Perhaps when the Custodians reach Toxoids for some buffs...

 

[CPR]

I stated this last week with the patch notes, and I'll say it again: With these habitat changes, void dwellers are literally the worst origin in the game now.

With the removal of multiple small specialized habitats in the same system, you've put all your eggs in one basket with the one large one, but at the same time, you've removed trade and leisure districts, thereby removing even more specialization from that hab. So far, in just that change alone, we've killed off multiple playstyles in this game, something I never like seeing. However, it's just as bad for literally anyone playing void dwellers. You have a good starting point, which is good, but you will find that VERY quickly levels out, and soon you are falling further and further behind. There aren't enough resource deposits for habs to build orbitals around, and since that's how you've designed this clunky system, it's just awful for trying to keep up with other empires.

As a supporting feature, habitats are decent enough. In payback and toxic god origins, they are a straight up boon with these changes, as larger habitats for those means better bonuses. However, they also can settle planets. Void dwellers do not have this luxury, which makes them fall behind very fast. Previously, you could compensate for that by building specific habitats over resources that provided you enough to overcome this... Now though... It's to the point where you need to settle as many systems as possible, except if you do that, your resource cost will be too high, but if you don't do that, you won't have enough... It's a catch 22 scenario.

Again, Paradox, please reverse these habitat changes, or at least, make void dwellers use the current, multiple smaller habitat system. Or, give void dwellers a path to settling planets. This could be associated with an ascension path or something, but letting them settle on planets once again would help this out. This new system, in it's current form, is fundamentally broken, and the only way to fix it is to increase resource deposits everywhere, except by doing that, you buff every other empire, which puts void dwellers even further behind. THIS. DOESN'T. WORK. You will always be chasing your tail, but never catching it.

I wouldn't say that they're so bad that the changes need to be reversed but I do feel that lots of changes are needed to make Void Dwellers fun again.

I'd suggest:

1. Default size of Habitats should be larger. You almost instantly run out of space which means you get a double growth penalty (on top of the -10% growth from the trait)
2. Why should it cost influence for a Void Dweller to build a new habitat? By that reasoning it should cost influence for normal empires to settle a planet. Because of the high influence cost you have to chase after influence hard, which is not good (forces you into a particular playstyle). Maybe remove influence cost of creating habitats entirely for Void Dwellers but they have to pay influence to settle planets instead.
3. The bonus extra resources in nearby systems is so small its basically a rounding error compared to getting habitable planets. This should be buffed or replaced by something more interesting (eg broken but repairable habitat from previous era)
4. As space specialists maybe give Void Dwellers a buff to collecting resources from space by default

I've not yet played the latest patch. Kinda curious to see how it works out....

 

[currylambchop]

Which misses the boat, because trade builds are strategically an early-game prioritization during the habitability era, which gives way by the mid-game to ascensions and terraforming.

Maybe they're trying to shift away from the current trade meta of spamming it only on low-habitability planets.

 

[Aenir]

Good question,

Looking at it, the relic shouldn't add new deposits to planets that already have a deposit, so if an orbital provides research, energy or mining districts that won't change.

If the orbital provides building slots due to the planet lacking a research, energy or mining deposit when the orbital was first constructed and the relic adds a new deposit, you'll need to rebuild the orbital to get the district type unlocked.

I'll have a look at making this a bit smoother by swapping the orbital to collect resources if the relic spawns resources under it.

Would that mean we would lose the building slot from it? The districts could be useless if the habitat already has enough.

 

[Khaali]

Now that we have percentage modifiers to trade, how about giving Megacorps a increade trade value percentage for clerks. At least if these changes work out to be good.

My thought behind is that clerks may have a "dont really need them"-position in empires, but for megacorps i feel clerks should be more essential. And i dont want to make clerks essential for normal empires, but i have no problem with them being essential for megacorps.


Or maybe give megacorp clerks boosts for other ressources. Like regular clerks get +1% TV, and megacorp clerks get +1% TV, +1% minerals, +1% food. Just something so that the megacorp player would have more incentive to invest more in clerks at the cost of minerals and food jobs.

 

[PAnZuRiEL]

Or, give void dwellers a path to settling planets.

Void dwellers have a path to settling planets and have always had one. It's the same path every empire has to settling planets that its starting pops aren't suited to.

 

[FiddleSticks96]

I've noticed that the Consume World Situation only takes into account the number of available districts at the time the Decision in enacted, even if some of those districts are being used up by an actual District. For example, if you have a size 10 planet with 9 City Districts constructed and no tile blockers, then you enact the Consume World Decision, the planet will explode after only 1 district is consumed. This occurs even if you retroactively demolish the 9 City Districts.

 

[Imp0815]

well it definitely gives them a niche. they wont do all that much early game, but once you are able to set up really big trade worlds with say 1k base trade value and more the clerks suddenly become really good. This basically incentives you to focus as much trade value on one world as possible. If you break the ceiling, clerks will be the most useful job in your empire

100 clerks seems excessive. Normal empires, like the Oceanic Paradise TV build, have a head start, while Void Dwellers TV builds are still lacking. Overall, I really like the idea of clerks and will definitely try this out!

 

[HFY]

Invasive Species is great.

I'm buying my own pops back from the slave market for 200 ec each.

We're like weeds.

 

[DeanTheDull]

Maybe they're trying to shift away from the current trade meta of spamming it only on low-habitability planets.

If so, they're being directly contrary to that premise. The lower trade/higher amenity changes doubles down on only putting trade on the lowest habitability worlds you have, because that's the only places where the clerks will be competitive with excess-amenity stability and small-but-not-degraded TV production.

The only dynamic in the last few updates that shifted away from spamming trade on all low-habitability planets was Paragons, where Governor restrictions mean you want to spam it all on one low-habitability planet. Other planets are as growth worlds, not even trade-producers themselves.

 

[Rafss]

The more I think about it, the more I find it odd the "more clerks = better clerks", like some sort of cubicle Hive Mind. No job in the game has this self-feeding loop.
Again I think the collaborative bonus where they buff Specialist output will have more strategic value.