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Stellaris Dev Diary #316 - Leader Consolidation

Hello everybody!

Today we’re going to look at a likely 3.10 feature, some changes that we’ve called the Leader Consolidation.

With leaders becoming more important to your empire following the 3.8 ‘Gemini’ release alongside Galactic Paragons, there were some rough edges leftover and experiences that could be better. Some of the changes we’re implementing during this leader consolidation were things we talked about during the development of Galactic Paragons but decided against for various reasons, or were out of scope at the time, while others are based on data gathered since then and community feedback.

So What’s Changing?​

Some of these names are still being argued over, so are subject to change. Hate one in particular? Let us know. One of us probably hates it too.

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Admirals and Generals will be merged into the Commander, the Military leader class.

Admiral and General will remain as veteran classes, with the following foci:
  • Admiral - Focuses on Fleets and general naval combat
  • General - Focuses on taking planets and assaulting static defenses - Armies, Planetary Bombardment, Ground Combat, and attacking defensive structures such as Starbases are the General’s forte
  • Commissioner - Focuses on Planetary Governance (Martial Law)
  • Strategist - Focuses on the Council, especially the Minister of Defense position

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The old Governors and some Envoy functions will be merged into Officials, the Administrative leader class.

Their veteran classes will be:
  • Delegate - Focuses on Federations and the Galactic Community
  • Industrialist - Focuses on Planetary Governance (Industry and Development)
  • Ambassador - Council Focus (Diplomacy, Espionage, and First Contact), especially suited for the new Minister of State position
  • Advisor - Council Focus (Economy)
This does give the Officials two council focused subclasses, but the two are different enough that we felt it best to let them specialize accordingly. The Advisor is expected to thrive in some civic based council positions.


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Scientists remain the third, Scientific leader class.

Veteran Classes:
  • Explorer - Focuses on Surveying and Exploration
  • Academic - Focuses on Archaeology and Anomalies
  • Analyst - Focuses on Planetary Governance (Assist Research)
  • Statistician - Focuses on the Council, especially the Minister of Science position

As suggested in last week’s teaser and by some of the above bullet points, “governor” will no longer be a leader class. Instead, a planet or sector can be governed by any leader, regardless of class, with differing effects. For example, instead of being local planetary decisions, placing a Commander in charge of a sector will place the entire sector under Martial Law. (The exact effects of which will be changing somewhat too - we want it to be a reasonable thing to put the military in charge of a newly conquered or disruptive set of planets until the condition stabilizes.) Administrative leaders will have most of the effects of the current governors, and the Assist Research effects will be moving to the Scientific governors.

You will still be able to override a Sector Governor on a specific planet by placing a Planetary Governor there, so your Forge Ecumenopolis could have an Industrialist governor in a sector that is otherwise led by a Scientist.

We’re also doing a major rebalancing of the traits themselves. As part of this, we’re reintroducing some sector-wide traits to governors (though now they’re split across the governing veteran classes), and the traits themselves will clearly show if they’re of sector or planetary scope. Note that a sector-wide governor trait will not apply to a planet that has its own local planetary governor overriding them.

So are Envoys Real Leaders Now?​

Partially.

A single Administrative leader can be assigned to your Federation and another to the Galactic Community (or Empire) like numerous Envoys did in the past. Their level and traits will determine how effective they are at the job instead of cramming every Envoy you can spare into there, making Delegates the optimal candidates for this sort of thing.

The Minister of State position is being added to the base council alongside the military and scientific ministries. This councilor will also have general effects on diplomacy, espionage, and first contact.

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Ruler, plus one red, one yellow, and one blue council member.

Envoys will remain as they were to represent the Minister of State’s bureaucratic reach, and will continue to handle “minor tasks” such as Improve and Harm Relations, maintaining Espionage spy networks, and First Contact.

What About Leader Caps?​

Leader caps remain, but are per-class, with any over-cap penalties affecting only the particular leader class that is over. Civics, traditions, and other effects that previously increased the generic leader cap will now generally increase the cap for one or more specific classes.

We may end up shifting more of the over-cap penalty over to the upkeep cost of leaders.

What about Gestalt Councils?​

Gestalt Councils currently have a significant advantage in passing agendas in the early game due to having a larger number of councilors. This disparity will be lessened a bit due to the regular empires starting with one additional councilor, and we’re also making council legitimacy (how happy your factions are with your council) affect agenda progress.

Their nodes will get a little bit of a reshuffle to accommodate the various changes, but should otherwise remain generally familiar. We’ll be able to share more details later on during the development cycle.

I’m a Modder, Tell Me Modding Stuff​

We’ll have more details in the release notes, but leader classes are no longer hard-coded and are thus much more moddable in script, so you should theoretically be able to do things like "this leader does research, commands armies, and represents us in the galcom!"

Is that everything?​

Nooooo.

Next on our Custodian “this is not internal politics” agenda is to do a pass on council agendas. Our thought is that agendas should have more impactful results (tangible effects rather than modifiers), and the range of available agendas should be related to the ethics of your active councilors instead of the ethics of your empire.

This is planned for 3.11 ‘[REDACTED]’ at the earliest.

In the longer term, we may want to make greater differentiation between the councils of different authorities - the councils of a Democracy and a Megacorp could feel different from one another, for example.

Next Week​

Next week we’ll boldly go where no dev diary has gone before.

(We're all currently at a staff conference, so dev replies to the diary will be delayed, but we'll make sure to read through all of the comments when we get back.)
 
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i'm sure i'm not the only one saying it but commissioner feels a bit off, something like commissar would make more sense for the role. a commissioner sounds like civilian administration
 
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Can mods allow one to assign a scientist to a (combat-)fleet or a commander to a boost relations mission and give them mods that in turn distinguish them (eg, Particles Expertise trait give +2,5% energy weapon damage, Army/Fleet Logistician giving -1% border friction)?
 
I don't think I like the plan to split the leader caps. A lot of the reasons you didn't do it the first time are still true: ui will be messy, etc. I think with the removal of Generals, the big reason to do so has also disappeared.

Split leader caps will also punish leaning into certain leader types. If you want to play a militarist nation then going over your commander cap will disproportioately penalize your commanders. This will reduce customization and flexibility in a relatively meaningful way, now.

I think it's just the other way around. If you want to play a militarist nation you will take ethis, civics and traditions which will raise your commander cap but not necessarily the other ones.
 
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No plans to increase the maximum number of council positions at this time.
If we’re not getting an extra slot, can we at least get the option to swap out all the council slots. Like, if I’m a fanatic pacifist I might not want a secretary of defense. Maybe I want that slot for something else.
 
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I think it's just the other way around. If you want to play a militarist nation you will take ethis, civics and traditions which will raise your commander cap but not necessarily the other ones.
However, there are plenty of civics and techs that make more sense raising generic leader cap rather than any one in particular. Further if you are specializing in one leader type then you will be disproportionately punished for exceeding your leader cap in that area.

Current specialization options of reduced class upkeep and increased xp suit this better. All leaders take the hit for exceeding leader limit, but the specialized class feels the effects significantly less.
 
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However, there are plenty of civics and techs that make more sense raising generic leader cap rather than any one in particular. Further if you are specializing in one leader type then you will be disproportionately punished for exceeding your leader cap in that area.

Current specialization options of reduced class upkeep and increased xp suit this better. All leaders take the hit for exceeding leader limit, but the specialized class feels the effects significantly less.

So, right now, there are only 1-2 civics that increase leader capacity and 2-3 traditions that do so.

That leaves a lot of room for a few civics to get narrow cap increases (Technocracy, Warrior Culture, and Merchant Guilds would be great candidates for cap increases).

As for Traditions: Discovery, Supremacy, and Expansion are likely candidates for those slot increases (though those three in particular are also some of the most popular traditions).

I also wouldn't mind seeing something like Militarist/Pacifist getting a bonus to the cap for fanatics maybe?
 
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I really love this concept overall and think it will greatly improve the game. However a few things make me a bit worried.

1. It sounds like only commanders (maybe only commissioners?) can declare martial law as a governor....and even more, that they ALWAYS will no matter what and for the entire sector as well. AND that all other types of governors can NEVER declare martial law on a planet. This sounds incredibly limiting to the player and I would humbly request that martial law remain a planetary decision. (or at least leave the possibility of a mod to do so)

2. It makes perfect sense to combine generals and admirals, but the veteran general sub class is going to suffer the same problems as the general class does now in that generals just aren't necessary in the game, especially with such a strict cap on number of leaders. Unless the cap is softened quite a bit I can't imagine anybody ever picking this at level 4. Speaking as someone who mods out the leader cap, this doesn't bother me and I actually I love this change quite a bit because I will always have a general no matter what and this will definitely add flavor to it. Still thought it deserves mentioning for the vanilla game.

3. Maybe I'm misunderstanding but is assist research going to move from a science ship in orbit to the governor position? I can see a lot of problems with this. Will it only be analysts that can perform this function? If so, what are your explorers and academics going to do from the mid game on once exploration is over? Will there be a reason to ever keep more than one science ship once exploration is over? Seems like a major major major change to a mechanic that has been with us since version 1.0 and has always worked very well. You know what they say about fixing things that aren't broken.

4. Really love the new minister of state position but don't like losing a civic position on the council. There is one very, extremely, highly important reason to use this opportunity to add an additional council position......symmetry. 3 positions on each side of the ruler just looks so much better than 3 on one side and 2 on the other. If another position is not added, then please allow the player the option to pick one of the civic positions over the minister of state position, as not all builds care about diplomacy.
 
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So, right now, there are only 1-2 civics that increase leader capacity and 2-3 traditions that do so.

That leaves a lot of room for a few civics to get narrow cap increases (Technocracy, Warrior Culture, and Merchant Guilds would be great candidates for cap increases).

As for Traditions: Discovery, Supremacy, and Expansion are likely candidates for those slot increases (though those three in particular are also some of the most popular traditions).

I also wouldn't mind seeing something like Militarist/Pacifist getting a bonus to the cap for fanatics maybe?
They can just as easily increase xp/reduce upkeep, though. Further, they would need rebalancing since they are already complete civics. (Possible exception of Warrior Tradition.)

What's more, what if you just don't want Governors? Now that we don't have to have them for planetary management, it may be completely valid to dump your full leader cap into Scientists and Commanders.

This also applies to more generalist nations. If we have a bunch of useless Scientists that specialized in exploration abilities and now just stink, we can instead dump them for new leaders more relevant to the empire.
 
I really love this concept overall and think it will greatly improve the game. However a few things make me a bit worried.

1. It sounds like only commanders (maybe only commissioners?) can declare martial law as a governor....and even more, that they ALWAYS will no matter what and for the entire sector as well. AND that all other types of governors can NEVER declare martial law on a planet. This sounds incredibly limiting to the player and I would humbly request that martial law remain a planetary decision. (or at least leave the possibility of a mod to do so)
Likely all will still be able to, but it'll be a lot more powerful with a military govenor, that's my hope
2. It makes perfect sense to combine generals and admirals, but the veteran general sub class is going to suffer the same problems as the general class does now in that generals just aren't necessary in the game, especially with such a strict cap on number of leaders. Unless the cap is softened quite a bit I can't imagine anybody ever picking this at level 4. Speaking as someone who mods out the leader cap, this doesn't bother me and I actually I love this change quite a bit because I will always have a general no matter what and this will definitely add flavor to it. Still thought it deserves mentioning for the vanilla game.
I know I"m wierd, but I like generals, they often can help win tight invasions. That said, it sounds like Generals will also provide bonuses to static defenses from your starbases and help with bombardment - so they'll have even more uses. Also, there were a few really nice traits that governors held, so those will probably stay.
3. Maybe I'm misunderstanding but is assist research going to move from a science ship in orbit to the governor position? I can see a lot of problems with this. Will it only be analysts that can perform this function? If so, what are your explorers and academics going to do from the mid game on once exploration is over? Will there be a reason to ever keep more than one science ship once exploration is over? Seems like a major major major change to a mechanic that has been with us since version 1.0 and has always worked very well. You know what they say about fixing things that aren't broken.
Most leaders can hold the roles of any speciality in their class, they're just not the best. You could already have surveyors do anomoly research, but they wouldn't be as good. But, my guess is that now, when you're done with science ships, they're just going to park until you need to salvage something, but otherwise analysis is now a governing job, so the scientist still gets used.
4. Really love the new minister of state position but don't like losing a civic position on the council. There is one very, extremely, highly important reason to use this opportunity to add an additional council position......symmetry. 3 positions on each side of the ruler just looks so much better than 3 on one side and 2 on the other. If another position is not added, then please allow the player the option to pick one of the civic positions over the minister of state position, as not all builds care about diplomacy.
Does it say we are losing a council position - it just says the Minister of State is being added to the base, but I imagine we can still get up to 3 more with civics, so now we'll have a total of 7 council spots.
 
They can just as easily increase xp/reduce upkeep, though. Further, they would need rebalancing since they are already complete civics. (Possible exception of Warrior Tradition.)

What's more, what if you just don't want Governors? Now that we don't have to have them for planetary management, it may be completely valid to dump your full leader cap into Scientists and Commanders.

This also applies to more generalist nations. If we have a bunch of useless Scientists that specialized in exploration abilities and now just stink, we can instead dump them for new leaders more relevant to the empire.

Maybe they'll have a policy option where you can sacrifice one or more leader caps in order to increase another; much like economic policy. For example, you could have:

Martial Recruitment: Reduce your Official and Scientist Leader caps by 1/2 and increase your Commander Cap by 2/4

Something like that would be pretty intuitive, and easy to implement I think.
 
Admirals and Generals will be merged into the Commander, the Military leader class.

Admiral and General will remain as veteran classes, with the following foci:

The old Governors and some Envoy functions will be merged into Officials, the Administrative leader class.

Their veteran classes will be:

Scientists remain the third, Scientific leader class.

Veteran Classes:

Veteran classes are a DLC feature. Please stop taking away stuff that was avaible since game launch and reselling it.
 
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Will Insight techs still increase envoy cap? If not, what is happening with those bonuses?

Personally I think the Insight techs are nice on their main buffs, some are powerful, some have nice fluff, I won't miss the envoy cap buff if it goes away.
You can also reduce the total of it by keeping only the Sociology Insight ones.
 
Came here to ask this lol, I refuse to buy Paragons since it took a vanilla feature, made it into a worse garbage feature unless you buy the DLC and now they continue to make the feature even more barebones unless you buys the dlc. Amazing ethics there paradox/custodians!
 
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Okay on max number of leaders why do we have so few ways to improve it? In most of my games the # of leaders always seems wildly too low. Shouldn't there be some type of scaling options?
Example: If I have a leader cap of say 10 from my technologies why does my population / empire sprawl have 0 effects? So 10 leaders can rule the 5 systems and 3 planets with a population of 25. However if I have a population of 1,000 and 100 systems I still have 10 leaders before I start getting the same negative effects?
 
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This mostly looks good. My only real concern is when it comes to scientist classes. Namely that with the current game mechanics, both explorers and academics hit a point where they become useless. At some point all the systems will have been surveyed, all the anomalies will have been studied and all archaeological sites will have been excavated.

Of those two, probably academics are the easiest to keep relevant with the current game because we do have systems in place that could introduce more dig sites and anomalies to ensure they are worth keeping around. Explorers are probably at the greatest risk of hitting irrelevancy and making players regret in investing in them, given that we probably don't want to be constantly adding too many new hyperlanes being discovered that lead to new systems, largely as a result of performance concerns. Only other area I can see that might be useful for keeping both relevant, now that it looks like assist research is going the domain of analysts, would be to give both classes bonuses for researching debris. Of course the issue is that only helps empires that are constantly getting into war and I'd argue the game pushes conflict too much at the expense of diplomacy and discovery.

So curious if this concern is on the radar of the devs? If so, what are they considering to ensure that both explorers continue to be relevant past the exploration phase. If they don't consider it a concern, then why not and what do they expect the player response to be? As in is the intended the design is that we only invest in one of each at game start and then either let them die off or fire them upon running out of places to survey, anomalies to research and dig sites to loot?
 
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