Stellaris Dev Diary #318 - Announcing Astral Planes

[Maethendias]

It's incredibly frustrating for me, making such an effort to talk about the other points than value proposition (which I'm leaving aside for now), to continually have people putting words in my mouth and saying that I am talking about the value proposition point. I'm staying away from that entire topic for a reason, but that's not being acknowledged.

you cant say you are frutrated and call people ignorant and slanderous.... while you are trying to argue and engage in a discussion and COMPLETLY ignore the entire point of the discussion...

 

[Panzerslothen]

you cant say you are frutrated and call people ignorant and slanderous.... while you are trying to argue and engage in a discussion and COMPLETLY ignore the entire point of the discussion...

Sure I can - and it's entirely understandable, when I'm not being argued with in good faith, when you're deliberately misrepresenting my position, saying I said things I didn't, saying I mean things I don't, and making me repeat myself over and over.
You accused me of not reading the Steam Reviews, which is a deliberate mistruth, because I have - as proven here, and which I've already told you. You accuse me of ignoring the discussion, despite this being exactly what I'm doing! Then you say ^ that? Are you trying to drive me crazy?

There is not one singular discussion going on; there are at least three. Specifically:
* The value proposition discussion
* The bugs discussion
* The UI changes discussion

All are related, but all are distinct. Just because you're focusing only on the first one, doesn't mean I'm "COMPLETELY ignoring the entire point of the discussion". I've not being weighing in for or against the 'value proposition' discussion, despite having acknowledged it multiple times; I am involved with the other discussions, though. Any cursory view of my recent comment history clearly shows this. Let me repeat myself one more time, because lord knows I've not done enough of THAT lately:

There's bad reviews blaming bugs and problems. There's bad reviews blaming the UI changes. And, yes, there's bad reviews focusing on a perceived lack of value. I never said there wasn't. I said that I thought the bad reviews were being motivated by the launch problems... because it's evident those launch problems have made a lot of people very mad and they're taking it out on the DLC . People who might otherwise think the DLC isn't enough bang for buck but might let that slide (enough to not leave a bad review because of it) are instead fired up to do so. This is something we've seen many times before.

Additionally, the theme of the reviews has shifted between the 16th/17th and the 18th onwards. Note the date and time of my original comment which irritated you so much - it's from Friday evening!

 

[Panzerslothen]

Actually, when you purchase a product or service you have the right that this purchase is error free. If it is not you have the right to demand a fix.
At least in germany that is.

And faulty software products are no different in that regard...


Also when you sell a faulty product you have to accept that there will be complains and records of said complains.

You're assuming I disagree, but I don't. The UK has similar laws in that things must be 'fit for purpose'. There's a whole other discussion (both legal and philosophical) about what's reasonable or even right to do with regards to problems of accident, though - and let's not open THAT can of worms What I specifically meant was the expectation that things would be completely error free; it'd be nice, it's the expectation, it's the standard... but we've had enough buggy releases by now to know, pragmatically, it just ain't going to happen.

IMHO the "Why wasn't this tested? This should have been tested!" line is understandable and valid. The devs have said before that they can't catch everything, as they are mere mortals with finite resources - and that having thousands of players finding bugs via actual gameplay reveals more QA data in a few hours than they can generate in weeks. We know this; doesn't make it any less sucky or frustrating for we the players to have a bug-laden release. But again (*groan* more repetition), the bugs and UI changes are a 3.10 problem, not 'just' an Astral Planes problem. These problems are affecting those who got it 'free' as much as those who paid for Astral Planes.

And Steam shows "recent" and "all" reviews in the overview - so when the quality of the product increases this will be clearly reflected.

It'd be nice, but I really doubt it. Why would people bother? Their rage will subside, they'll forget, they'll move on - and never make the effort to acknowledge things changed. They'll never admit where they were petty, or pig-headed, or just plain wrong.

 

[Maethendias]

There is not one singular discussion going on; there are at least three. Specifically:
* The value proposition discussion
* The bugs discussion
* The UI changes discussion

its not... its literally justa discussion about the dlc being poopy, and the reasons for that are falling in either of the 3 previously mentioned categories

 

[Terran91]

its not... its literally justa discussion about the dlc being poopy, and the reasons for that are falling in either of the 3 previously mentioned categories

The first topic of discussion is about dlc, other 2 are about patch.

 

[Panzerslothen]

its not... its literally justa discussion about the dlc being poopy, and the reasons for that are falling in either of the 3 previously mentioned categories

Yes, it is. I've literally proven that it is, several times over now. The bugs and UI changes are not in any way relevant to the value proposition argument, because the bugs and UI changes are not unique to the DLC, where the value proposition argument is. The bugs and UI change issues will be gone soon; the question of whether or not Astral Planes is enough to justify a £15 price tag will not, because that is subjective and personal.
Your insistence otherwise isn't based in fact or reality, and you're just cherry-picking what you pay attention to and what you don't. If you're going to play that game, then dealing with you is a waste of time.

 

[Soranya]

Yes, it is. I've literally proven that it is, several times over now. The bugs and UI changes are not in any way relevant to the value proposition argument, because the bugs and UI changes are not unique to the DLC, where the value proposition argument is. The bugs and UI change issues will be gone soon; the question of whether or not Astral Planes is enough to justify a £15 price tag will not, because that is subjective and personal.
Your insistence otherwise isn't based in fact or reality, and you're just cherry-picking what you pay attention to and what you don't. If you're going to play that game, then dealing with you is a waste of time.

What I dont get with Internetarguments is that people never stop. No matter what.

Maybe just everybody should stop here. Every point has been exchanged, every argument been made.

Lets agree that there is disagrement?

 

[mrt1212]

What I dont get with Internetarguments is that people never stop. No matter what.

Maybe just everybody should stop here. Every point has been exchanged, every argument been made.

Lets agree that there is disagrement?

Sorry but nobody is taking 'Till Next Time...' as their Ascension Perk.

 

[Panzerslothen]

What I dont get with Internetarguments is that people never stop. No matter what.

Maybe just everybody should stop here. Every point has been exchanged, every argument been made.

Lets agree that there is disagrement?

I'm capable of stopping, and I'm perfectly willing to, and I've even TRIED to do so. But Maethendias wasn't engaging in good faith, merely straight up gaslighting and calling me a liar, which has been so irritating that I've been compelled to clearly iterate the facts several times.

But if its any consolation I've just whacked him onto the Ignore list now so there we go, problem solved