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Stellaris Dev Diary #329 - Technology Beta Wrapup

Hello everyone!

It’s been two weeks, so let’s get straight into the good stuff.

Summary of Results​

Much like the first Technology Open Beta, very experienced players formed the bulk of respondents. This time it was closer to 72% of responses coming from players with over 1,000 hours in game. (Only 1.4% said they had less than 300 hours in Stellaris, so the survey skewed very much towards our most passionate players.) Thank you all for your feedback and help.

This time, a majority of players rated technology progress as “just right”, with the remainder almost perfectly evenly split between it being too fast or too slow, with a majority consensus that the changes were beneficial overall.

Many players missed the breakthrough technologies and the general opinion tended to lean towards us pulling back a little too far. Many players commented that they liked how technology tiers 3 and higher felt more impactful, but lamented that with the removal of breakthroughs, tier 2 sort of melded into tier 1 technologies.

There was also quite a spirited discussion on the Stellaris forums regarding the pros and cons of galaxy generation sliders and their effects on new players.

Our general philosophy is that it is better to permit more customization of your play experience than less, but that the default settings should be a positive play experience for inexperienced players. New players tend not to adjust the sliders much, while veterans tend to have more understanding of the exact effects of the various settings and can customize their game to satisfy their needs - but the default settings, except for difficulty, should be sufficient for an enjoyable game. We do agree that the galaxy settings screen has grown a significant amount over the years and could benefit from some reworking, and will be placing that task on the Custodian “to-do” list for sometime in the future.

Next Steps​

Overall, I consider the Technology Open Betas a significant success. We gathered a lot of useful information and feedback, and it gave us the chance to experiment with some systems that may or may not have panned out. We will be going forward with including the changes from the second Technology Open Beta in the 3.11 “Eridanus” update.

Breakthrough Technologies will not be coming at this time, but we may experiment with technology spread and similar effects sometime in the future.

One new change we’ll be making based on some of the data we’ve collected is that we’re moving Ascension Theory to Tier 4 from Tier 5, but it will only be available to empires that have completed at least six tradition trees. As Unity and Research are intended to be “opposing” resources to a degree, we did not want the capstone of Ascension based gameplay to be so strongly tied to the later game tech tree.

Now let’s hear about one of the other changes coming in the update.

Resort Worlds​

Hello, Stellaris community. I'm Gatekeeper, a long-time modder who's ascended into being part of the Stellaris Content team. And if you know anything about what I've done in the past, I like planets.

One thing I've done recently is to imagine a galaxy where Resort Worlds aren't just post-apocalyptic fortress worlds. Instead, these are vibrant, dedicated havens of rest, starkly contrasting the often harsh realities of interstellar life.

Resort Worlds Technology

The Resort Worlds technology which permits the Create Resort World planetary decision is no longer rare, and we've lowered it to tier 2. We've updated the decision’s restrictions; it no longer has a minimum planet size but can be used on planets that have upgraded capital buildings. As funny as it was (and we did it all the time), you can no longer declare a tomb or relic world a vacation paradise.

A pass has also been done on what buildings are allowed on Resort Worlds.

Create Resort World Planetary Decision
Planetary Decision Tooltip

Instead of providing perfect habitability, Clerks, and Entertainers, Resort Worlds now provide Resort Districts that give Housing, Building Slots, and Resort Worker jobs that provide Trade, and increase Amenities and Trade Value from Living Standards across all planets of your empire. This replaces the empire-wide Amenities reduction of the old version.

Resort District Tooltip
Resort Worker tooltip

On behalf of the United Caphevan Commonwealth, we would like to wish you a pleasant stay on Evaggimar II.

Next Week​

Next week we’ll be looking at some of the fixes and changes going into the 3.11 “Eridanus” update. See you then!
 
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Small coin about different worlds and everyone wants tomb world as an option.
I think it will be over the top for such a minor thingy, but consider this - resort effect can depend on what type of planet you have it on.
Because, not only it kind of makes sense for adventurous spirits to go on vacation on nuclear wasteland for chills and amenities (but, not really adding *trade value*, instead maybe global unity or science or experience (leaders/fleets/armies), it would also makes sense, that Gaia or ringworld resort should give much more, than random desert.
Or you can try different approach - adding trade bonus from a planet only to 'native' species for example, or based on their habitability on resort planet. Thus tomb worlds will be good for survivors and relentless industrialists, but not for Baol :D

Overall, this is a flavor feature, thus it needs more flavor, than strict balancing and whatnot (ofc, it should still be balanced and usable). Changing one bland feature for another just by boosting it's viability for certain in-game builds is kind of...meh? :)
 
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Regarding the tech beta. Please tell us you are making a complete pass over all events and such that require use of research output. The reduction in researcher output was very welcome as it aligned the job more with other specialist jobs but it some early game events can now be crippling to complete as they were not adjusted. If the costs cannot be easily adjusted then perhaps they should not occur until an empire reaches a certain threshold in research output
 
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Glad you're feeling better Eladrin.

I unfortunately didn't get time to finish a game on the second tech beta and put in some feedback. I'll echo others that I'm glad breakthroughs aren't completely abandoned as an idea. Other than rubber-banding the effect of making more technologically distinct eras felt really good compared to going straight from tier-to-tier. I'm also glad to see the changes to resort worlds and hope we get that for other special worlds eventually. It will be nice to finally use them!

The only real shame for me is that the slider is still linked to another slider. I get the wish for player choice but the explosion of variables is both overwhelming and more likely to lead to frustration trying to figure out a good combination among all the others. IMO it would be better to decouple tech curve from difficulty.

I'm looking forward to seeing what improvements the next patch will bring.
 
One new change we’ll be making based on some of the data we’ve collected is that we’re moving Ascension Theory to Tier 4 from Tier 5, but it will only be available to empires that have completed at least six tradition trees. As Unity and Research are intended to be “opposing” resources to a degree, we did not want the capstone of Ascension based gameplay to be so strongly tied to the later game tech tree.

Given you want to keep a sort of opposing nature here of traditions and technologies and given the description of traditions from the wiki, Traditions represent the socio-cultural evolution of an empire as it expands and develop, could we not use empire progression through the tradition trees to represent various ages of the empire similar to how pre-FTL empires progress? I am really leaning into a concept similar to how Civilization games handle different Eras and since we have the pre-FTL model in game...


Here is the proposal, we could have some sort of breakthrough technology barrier but each Ascension Perk the empire has reduces the cost. The idea is that the civilization has evolved to the point that their understanding of the universe is greatly expanded and new possibilities are opened up. While an empire can brute force research their way through it a more socially evolved society would find a different path. Once the break through technology appears the flyover text or its own description could state that it opens up the next tier of research but its cost is reduced by the number of ascension perks an empire has acquired, each extra perk over the required for the normal discount would halve it again. This would replace the entirety of empire catch up mechanics, no intel requirements and waiting on another empire to do it first.

Another method to represent this instead of having a break through technology in each category that is opened up upon acquiring sufficient ascension perks is to introduce a situation log entry that consumes influence similar to what is experienced when integrating an empire. I like this method a little better as it does require pulling back from expansion to focus inward. This would scale as you increase tiers and having more ascension perks unlocked than needed to open this event reduces the cost. T1 to T2 would be expending one influence per month across a set number of years , then 1.5 for the next, and so on. This might be too complicated to sell to new players though. I don't want to spend unity here and the only free resource otherwise available was influence.

Drawbacks
  • Introduces complication between technology and tradition sliders with regards to the breakthrough technology cost
  • Some players like to sit on Ascension Perks and hold them till later, not a big issue and I think it should be discouraged
  • New players would need to be encouraged to complete a tree instead of working on multiple tradition trees at once
  • Might make the whole process too complex for new players so maybe at captain+ only?
 
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Resort Worlds​

Hello, Stellaris community. I'm Gatekeeper, a long-time modder who's ascended into being part of the Stellaris Content team. And if you know anything about what I've done in the past, I like planets.

One thing I've done recently is to imagine a galaxy where Resort Worlds aren't just post-apocalyptic fortress worlds. Instead, these are vibrant, dedicated havens of rest, starkly contrasting the often harsh realities of interstellar life.


The Resort Worlds technology which permits the Create Resort World planetary decision is no longer rare, and we've lowered it to tier 2. We've updated the decision’s restrictions; it no longer has a minimum planet size but can be used on planets that have upgraded capital buildings. As funny as it was (and we did it all the time), you can no longer declare a tomb or relic world a vacation paradise.

A pass has also been done on what buildings are allowed on Resort Worlds.


Instead of providing perfect habitability, Clerks, and Entertainers, Resort Worlds now provide Resort Districts that give Housing, Building Slots, and Resort Worker jobs that provide Trade, and increase Amenities and Trade Value from Living Standards across all planets of your empire. This replaces the empire-wide Amenities reduction of the old version.

View attachment 1078556View attachment 1078557
On behalf of the United Caphevan Commonwealth, we would like to wish you a pleasant stay on Evaggimar II.


A thought I'd like to leave here is that while I like the idea behind resort workers, I think it pushes forward the case for nerfing Entertainers / reviewing the current non-gestalt amenity economy on both a mechanical and a thematic level.

Mechanically, the issue is that Entertainers are already by and far the dominant amenity-source job, and the Resort Worker benefits them disproportionately by virtue of proportional modifiers. Entertainers at 10 amenities produce more than 3x the amenities of Ruler pops, 5x the amenities of the 'self-sustaining' amenity-priests, 2.5x the 'amenity-substitute' clerk, and 2x the 'have to research two technologies' Medical Workers. This also means each Resort Worker bonus is providing 2-5x times the extra amenities to the Entertainer than the rest. Since amenities is a system where optimization resides in having just enough and not inevesting a pop more that could be doing something else, this is a buff to the one amenity job that has consistently made other options either unadvisable or require exceptional additional investment to justify. At, say, 50% amenity bonus, you'll still need 2 medical workers to equal 1 entertainer, but you're going to need that second pop as a medical worker for even longer before the second entertainer has to be employed, which is a non-trivial early-game pop advantage in a game that, while slowing down, still favors the early econ most.

Thematically, this also warrants a reconsideration because the other side of the resort world's bonus directly plays to the themes / mechanical synergies of Egalitarianism (highest passive living standard trade, trade build synergies favoring specialist production), while entertainer builds are more authoritarian-aligned (with a specific slave caste incentive for slave-entertainers and building-free servants, reduced amenity requirements, overall further minimizing amenity-population needs). The living standards trade boost, while minor and generally negligible given the small base values (in a non-trade build, even at .5 TV per pop every 2 Resort workers is producing about 1 extra energy per 100 pops), it's still a conversion that aligns far more with Egalitarians (higher passive TV, including at worker levels) than Authoritarian standards (low worker TV).



While acknowledging that all of this is very low in priority, I think this supports a case that entertainers should not be the starting Amenity job archetype, but rather in the same sort of 'you have to unlock it to leverage it' position as Medical Workers. Both so that there's a more direct either-or between them- Medical Workers would cease to be the 'inferior thing you have to go out of your way to get' if Entertainers were also a 'you have to go out of your way tech-wise to get them'- but also providing both a chance for ethic weighting to shift (certain ethics have higher draw chance for medical workers, others for entertainers on a bread-and-circuses model), and a chance for the other early-game amenity option to sneak itself into the economy.

The re-look could also consider rebalancing the purpose and the roles of the different amenity jobs in the thematic economy.
Medical Workers, for example really seem like they should be an Egalitarian-factioned demand (medical care for alll), and possibly have a thematic focus on social harmony/stabilization rather than simply habitability-buffs that gradually lose value.



I'm rambling, so take this as you will, but ultimately I feel this makes the case for relooking entertainers, and the intended alternatives to entertainers, a bit better.
 
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The Resort Worlds technology which permits the Create Resort World planetary decision is no longer rare, and we've lowered it to tier 2. We've updated the decision’s restrictions; it no longer has a minimum planet size but can be used on planets that have upgraded capital buildings. As funny as it was (and we did it all the time), you can no longer declare a tomb or relic world a vacation paradise.
I'd like to add my +1 to recreational tomb worlds, especially if tombworlds or worlds with negative modifiers acted slightly differently compared to nice pleasant worlds of chill.
I think you should still be allowed to, if you have one citizen/resident species with tombworld habitability OR sapient robots / synthetic ascension.
Given that the 100% habitability is gone and the benefits have been moved to jobs it would mostly work like this organically anyway - unless you feel like paying ludicrous costs for your resort worker upkeep.
 
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Please check whether Habitable Worlds slider works as designed. Even at lowest level there are too many.
Don't forget that for almost every empire there's going to be three habitable worlds (homeworld + two guaranteed), try playing with less empires or guaranteed off and see if it still seems like too many.
 
Please check whether Habitable Worlds slider works as designed. Even at lowest level there are too many.
Habitable worlds slider is applied earlier in galaxy generation than anything that forces habitable worlds to exist. It does not account for:

young empires' homeworlds
fallen empire scripting
any potential habitables caused by origin scripting
the per-empire guaranteed habitables
habitables created during gameplay by events
etc.

If you are desperate to shaft non-Void Dweller AIs (the AI does not know how to cope with minuscule numbers of habitables), then you need to also set guaranteed habitables to zero and possibly also preftl civs to zero.
 
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I always felt they were a bit lacking. Now I can finally turn Venus into a resort worthy of her namesake!
 
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Memorialists should be able to make tombs worlds and relic worlds resort worlds.

While I'll grant that preventing relic worlds from being resort worlds is a little excessive (unless the entire population of the planet is living in ruins that could collapse at any time, there are clearly some places that are fit for living), tomb worlds absolutely shouldn't be resort worlds. They are irradiated, post-nuclear wastelands. I get that such a world probably would be of interest to at least some people, but it really shouldn't be called a "resort world." Resorts are pleasant places to relax and get away from urban centers, not nightmarish, dreary expanses of nothingness that are likely to kill you if you stay for more than a few hours. Even if you're in radiation-free domes, there's not much a view. It would be something different depending on who you ask, but I don't thing anyone would call it a resort world. Given that memorialist's whole schtick is remembering past civilizations, I can see it being declared a "eulogy world," halfway between a museum and a mausoleum.
 
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Resort workers might need some number tweaks, I been looking at those numbers and I believe they are too low to be truly useful. Mostly because they are making secondary resources rather then the main 3 minerals/food, energy, and alloys and eating up a lot of pops. While I am glad that gatekeeper is making them better, I think what could work is making it so resort world produce traders based on pop size or every 4 resort worker? Maybe resort workers should also have other effects like Medical Workers increasing pop growth speed. I like where the update is going but the numbers feel very safe and overall less useful then just another planet or habitat. I personally think resort worlds should be high in CG and energy upkeep per district and job, but have a substantial effect on the rest of your worlds.

So empire with a good economy are the ones who can benefit the most and be able to martian expensive resort worlds.
 
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Good work with the tech beta. Now techs feel weaker but balanced.
But can some of the origins(Like Rift World) receive similar treatments as the Gateway origin (+Gateway tech progress. )?

As tech is slowed down, it takes about 7-10 years to finish the Rift sphere tech before exploring Rifts. It is sad that the core gameplay of Rift World is locked
after yr 20.
 
Less a "why" and more a "how," in my opinion. I think the game could be more clear about what stuff is a prerequisite for what other stuff (just more detailed and comprehensive "unlocks more in X category" tool tips, which are missing for many techs). But an actual visual tech tree I don't think can accurately represent Stellaris's technology system with the brevity required for it to actually be useful, and not more confusing.
 
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Oh, with Resort Worlds being updated, maybe we could get an origin where you start with a resort moon:

 
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