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Stellaris Dev Diary #369 - 4.0 Changes: Part 3

Hello everyone!

Today we’re going to take a glance at the Trade and Logistics changes coming in the Stellaris 4.0 ‘Phoenix’ update, then check out some new portraits.

Trade and Logistics​

Trade as a Standard Resource

The Trade system introduced in the Stellaris 2.2 ‘Le Guin’ update was raised as an especially frequent point of confusion for many players. UX issues around disconnected trade stations combined with some quirks of being a modifier based system (like ignoring habitability) made some of it unintuitive. The system had a major impact on performance as well, so while examining Stellaris for optimizations, we decided that we wanted to revamp the system.

In 4.0, Trade will become a standard advanced resource, generally produced in the same way as before, but will follow all of the standard rules around resource-producing jobs. The Trade Routes system has been removed - any produced Trade will be immediately collected like any other normal resource.

Resource Bar showing Trade

We’ve done some cleanup to the top bar while we were in there.

Logistical Upkeep

Hello, @Gruntsatwork here, with Eladrin’s UI wizardry done, I shall step in to reveal some of our trade secrets to you.

The majority of your trade upkeep will come from 2 sources in the new system.

First, local planetary deficits will carry a small trade upkeep, a fraction of the missing resources value on the galactic market. This represents the logistical effort required to commandeer freighters to supply a world that is not self-sufficient and therefore requires resources to be transported in from off-world. Mind you, this will occur in addition to normal deficits, if your entire empire is not capable of supplying those needs either.

In short, your planets will either satisfy their own local needs, or require trade to offset the logistics cost.

The second major trade upkeep will come from Fleets. Any fleets currently docked at one of your starbases have no trade upkeep.

Once your fleets start to move they will gain a small Trade Upkeep, representing the logistical efforts required to support them. This small upkeep will increase if your fleets are in hostile territory – that is territory owned by another empire you are at war with, as supplying them becomes so much more dangerous and space insurance coverage is no joke.

In the future, logistical upkeep could potentially be used to counter-act Doomstacking, for example by scaling upkeep with the number of ships in a fleet, dividing by the number of fleets, fleets per system etc, we have no concrete solution yet, but welcome your thoughts.

With these new sources of trade upkeep, it is of course important to mention that we will also introduce a new trade deficit. Like Unity, this will not create a Deficit Situation but a country modifier that persists until the deficit is dealt with. Running a trade deficit will reduce advanced resource production (alloys, consumer goods, unity, and research) and all ship weapons damage.

Stockpiling Trade and Using Trade in the Market

Our intent is for Trade Policies to continue to exist going forward. Currently, we expect to have half of your net Trade income (after paying Logistical Upkeep) converted to other resources using your Trade Policy, plus any that might otherwise overflow your storage. Some of the current Trade Policies may be tweaked a bit. The rest will go into your resource stockpile as an advanced resource.

In addition, the galactic market has been adjusted so that its primary trading resource is Trade. As such, energy is now available on the market as a standard resource. The energy storage cap has been brought to the same level as minerals and food, while Trade’s storage cap has been set to 50.000 at the base level.

As we are in the middle of implementation, we are adjusting this as we receive internal feedback and will continue to do so when it is time for our open beta.

We will be keeping a close eye on the value of trade as a resource. If necessary, we’ll keep turning the dials to ensure it is an actually interesting resource to focus on.

For modders, the main market resource is set as a define and can be switched to something else.

Gestalt Empires and Trade

Rejoice, friends of bugs and bolts, for you too will be able to enjoy the benefits of trade starting with 4.0.

As part of the Phoenix update, Gestalt empires will be able to collect trade like normal empires do, from both jobs and deposits.

In contrast to normal empires, Gestalt empires will rarely do so with Traders and Clerks, instead their most basic drones, maintenance drones for example, will create trade in addition to their normal resources and modifiers. In addition, they will also have access to Trade Policies, to enrich their common wallet.

Of course, with benefits come drawbacks, and so Gestalt Empires will also deal with the logistical upkeep for local planetary deficits and Fleets that are not docked and/or within hostile territory. The Galactic Market will of course also accept gestalt trade as its main resource.

In the future, we are also considering Megacorp Gestalt Empires, for your corporate drone needs, but whether we will have time to do that for 4.0 or later remains to be seen.

Corporate Branch Office Updates

For Branch Offices, we have a plethora of improvements ready for your enjoyment, courtesy of our ever industrious Mr.Cosmogone.

Branch office buildings are now all limited to 1 per planet and now give more appropriate jobs to the host planet. They also increase local trade production based on those jobs and their corporate resource output is in turn increased by local trade.

Most Corporate Civics now also give bonuses to a specific branch office building, increasing its trade value bonus and receiving Merchant jobs on their Capital from it.

Numerous changes have been made to Criminal Syndicates:

  • Criminal Empires can now establish commercial pacts. Having a commercial pact with a Criminal Empire will replace all criminal buildings with their "lawful" counterpart. As long as the commercial pact remains, criminal branch offices will not be removed from the planet.
  • All Criminal branch office buildings have had their crime value set to 25 and give one Criminal Job alongside a regular Job.
  • We have also added a crime floor to non-criminal branch office buildings on empires they have a trade agreement with, which means there will always be a minimum amount of crime on the branch office planet. Criminal branch offices are also up to 25% more profitable on high crime planets.

Balance-wise, these buildings are more impactful, so branch office buildings now cost influence, and branch offices now take up 5 empire size instead of 2.

Oh, and we have also allowed Megacorps to open branch offices on other Megacorps... The influence cost is doubled when built on a planet owned by another Megacorp.

Mammalian Portraits​

Thanks, Gruntsatwork. Now a message from Content Design Lead @CGInglis :

And now my deer friends, one mooo-re surprise for you! The Stellaris 4.0 ‘Phoenix’ update brings ten paws-itively stunning new Mammalian portraits to the base game!

Mammalian Species Portraits

Glass of milk, standing in between extinction in the cold, and explosive radiating growth…



The Gremlin

A regal Hippopotaxeno

My, what big teeth you have.

The secrets of enlightenment are waiting.


Next Week​

Next week we’ll start talking about how Pops will change and might pull up the new Planet UI. Since the branch itself is still very full of placeholders, we’ll be using the design mockups while explaining the changes.

See you then!
 
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@Eladrin How will the new crime floor from criminal branch offices affect our ability to remove them with enforcers? War isn't always a realistic recourse. Pacifist empires or situations when the criminal empire is on the other side of the galaxy, for example.
The crime floor is a floor and your enforcers will not be able to do anything about it (you basically legalized crime after all). However, you can break your trade agreement with the criminals at any point, reverting the branch office to its usual form and allowing your enforcers to fight crime as normal.


Will gestalt empires be able to form commercial pacts and can Megacorps establish branch offices on their planets?
I also wanted to ask this, can megacorps finally build branch offices on gestalt worlds now that trade value is universal?
Not yet! (trade agreements are a maybe. I just don't know about them)


Having trade as a resource that you produce anywhere being used to cover planetary deficiencies if they are not self sufficient is a genius way to simulate inter planetary trade and planets being self sufficient or not, without actually having to do a complicated simulation. I think it's great. Same as having trade being the resource you use to trade in the market, I think that's also genius. I can see that definitely making the game more engaging and the market more strategic.

I also like criminal mega corps having normal commercial pacts and having branch offices on other mega corps. But I don't know about only having 1 building on each planet, I feel that's a bit to restrictive, especially RP wise.

The new portraits also look like a lot of fun. You are spoiling us.
Just to clarify, buildings are planet-unique but you can still get up to 4 slots per planet. Just no duplicates of buildings on a planet.
 
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The change in the trade value is unfortunately disappointing. I expected more.
What is trade value supposed to be anyway? Logistics? How can you collect and store logistics?
Please rethink the trade value. Other users have suggested many good ideas on how to make changes to the trade value more credible and logical.
 
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Does this mean trade effectively replaces energy credits as space money?
Will trade be used to pay for stuff from enclaves, mercenaries, caravaneers etc.? Will commercial pacts give trade?
 
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The crime floor is a floor and your enforcers will not be able to do anything about it (you basically legalized crime after all). However, you can break your trade agreement with the criminals at any point, reverting the branch office to its usual form and allowing your enforcers to fight crime as normal.

Does this mean that criminal syndicates are no longer able to open branch offices without commercial pacts? If they still can and their buildings add a crime floor, is the only way to remove their unwanted branch offices via war? I assume this can't be the case, as it would have a number of glaring problems.
 
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Hello everyone!

Today we’re going to take a glance at the Trade and Logistics changes coming in the Stellaris 4.0 ‘Phoenix’ update, then check out some new portraits.

Trade and Logistics​

Trade as a Standard Resource

The Trade system introduced in the Stellaris 2.2 ‘Le Guin’ update was raised as an especially frequent point of confusion for many players. UX issues around disconnected trade stations combined with some quirks of being a modifier based system (like ignoring habitability) made some of it unintuitive. The system had a major impact on performance as well, so while examining Stellaris for optimizations, we decided that we wanted to revamp the system.

In 4.0, Trade will become a standard advanced resource, generally produced in the same way as before, but will follow all of the standard rules around resource-producing jobs. The Trade Routes system has been removed - any produced Trade will be immediately collected like any other normal resource.

View attachment 1250943
We’ve done some cleanup to the top bar while we were in there.

Logistical Upkeep

Hello, @Gruntsatwork here, with Eladrin’s UI wizardry done, I shall step in to reveal some of our trade secrets to you.

The majority of your trade upkeep will come from 2 sources in the new system.

First, local planetary deficits will carry a small trade upkeep, a fraction of the missing resources value on the galactic market. This represents the logistical effort required to commandeer freighters to supply a world that is not self-sufficient and therefore requires resources to be transported in from off-world. Mind you, this will occur in addition to normal deficits, if your entire empire is not capable of supplying those needs either.

In short, your planets will either satisfy their own local needs, or require trade to offset the logistics cost.

The second major trade upkeep will come from Fleets. Any fleets currently docked at one of your starbases have no trade upkeep.

Once your fleets start to move they will gain a small Trade Upkeep, representing the logistical efforts required to support them. This small upkeep will increase if your fleets are in hostile territory – that is territory owned by another empire you are at war with, as supplying them becomes so much more dangerous and space insurance coverage is no joke.

In the future, logistical upkeep could potentially be used to counter-act Doomstacking, for example by scaling upkeep with the number of ships in a fleet, dividing by the number of fleets, fleets per system etc, we have no concrete solution yet, but welcome your thoughts.

With these new sources of trade upkeep, it is of course important to mention that we will also introduce a new trade deficit. Like Unity, this will not create a Deficit Situation but a country modifier that persists until the deficit is dealt with. Running a trade deficit will reduce advanced resource production (alloys, consumer goods, unity, and research) and all ship weapons damage.

Stockpiling Trade and Using Trade in the Market

Our intent is for Trade Policies to continue to exist going forward. Currently, we expect to have half of your net Trade income (after paying Logistical Upkeep) converted to other resources using your Trade Policy, plus any that might otherwise overflow your storage. Some of the current Trade Policies may be tweaked a bit. The rest will go into your resource stockpile as an advanced resource.

In addition, the galactic market has been adjusted so that its primary trading resource is Trade. As such, energy is now available on the market as a standard resource. The energy storage cap has been brought to the same level as minerals and food, while Trade’s storage cap has been set to 50.000 at the base level.

As we are in the middle of implementation, we are adjusting this as we receive internal feedback and will continue to do so when it is time for our open beta.

We will be keeping a close eye on the value of trade as a resource. If necessary, we’ll keep turning the dials to ensure it is an actually interesting resource to focus on.

For modders, the main market resource is set as a define and can be switched to something else.

Gestalt Empires and Trade

Rejoice, friends of bugs and bolts, for you too will be able to enjoy the benefits of trade starting with 4.0.

As part of the Phoenix update, Gestalt empires will be able to collect trade like normal empires do, from both jobs and deposits.

In contrast to normal empires, Gestalt empires will rarely do so with Traders and Clerks, instead their most basic drones, maintenance drones for example, will create trade in addition to their normal resources and modifiers. In addition, they will also have access to Trade Policies, to enrich their common wallet.

Of course, with benefits come drawbacks, and so Gestalt Empires will also deal with the logistical upkeep for local planetary deficits and Fleets that are not docked and/or within hostile territory. The Galactic Market will of course also accept gestalt trade as its main resource.

In the future, we are also considering Megacorp Gestalt Empires, for your corporate drone needs, but whether we will have time to do that for 4.0 or later remains to be seen.

Corporate Branch Office Updates

For Branch Offices, we have a plethora of improvements ready for your enjoyment, courtesy of our ever industrious Mr.Cosmogone.

Branch office buildings are now all limited to 1 per planet and now give more appropriate jobs to the host planet. They also increase local trade production based on those jobs and their corporate resource output is in turn increased by local trade.

Most Corporate Civics now also give bonuses to a specific branch office building, increasing its trade value bonus and receiving Merchant jobs on their Capital from it.

Numerous changes have been made to Criminal Syndicates:

  • Criminal Empires can now establish commercial pacts. Having a commercial pact with a Criminal Empire will replace all criminal buildings with their "lawful" counterpart. As long as the commercial pact remains, criminal branch offices will not be removed from the planet.
  • All Criminal branch office buildings have had their crime value set to 25 and give one Criminal Job alongside a regular Job.
  • We have also added a crime floor to non-criminal branch office buildings on empires they have a trade agreement with, which means there will always be a minimum amount of crime on the branch office planet. Criminal branch offices are also up to 25% more profitable on high crime planets.

Balance-wise, these buildings are more impactful, so branch office buildings now cost influence, and branch offices now take up 5 empire size instead of 2.

Oh, and we have also allowed Megacorps to open branch offices on other Megacorps... The influence cost is doubled when built on a planet owned by another Megacorp.

Mammalian Portraits​

Thanks, Gruntsatwork. Now a message from Content Design Lead @CGInglis :

And now my deer friends, one mooo-re surprise for you! The Stellaris 4.0 ‘Phoenix’ update brings ten paws-itively stunning new Mammalian portraits to the base game!

View attachment 1250944
Glass of milk, standing in between extinction in the cold, and explosive radiating growth…



View attachment 1250945
View attachment 1250946
View attachment 1250947
View attachment 1250948


Next Week​

Next week we’ll start talking about how Pops will change and might pull up the new Planet UI. Since the branch itself is still very full of placeholders, we’ll be using the design mockups while explaining the changes.

See you then!

Hey, everyone!


After all this time playing Stellaris, I realized l've never commented here on the forum. So, here we go!


I'd like to make a suggestion (or even an appeal!) for it to be possible to research or steal the technology used by the Solarpunk Empire, especially those focused on improving logistics. Just imagine being able to implement those incredible transportation and distribution systems they have in your own empire! It would be a total game-changer, don't you think?
 
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I am honestly disappointed with the changes to Trade.
Trade not being a stockpiled resource was one of the interesting things about it; and it will make even less sense if it is now supposed to represent logistical capability.
Having it as currency for the market is also very strange; Energy was the market currency base on the common idea that energy can be used as a form of universal currency. Having something as vague and immaterial as Trade or Logistic serve as currency is quite bizarre.
Moreover, energy itself is losing a lot of it's uniqueness in that change; and this new Trade looks to feel more like a second Energy rather than it's own resource.
As it is, it would make more sense to simply remove Trade entirely and merge it into Energy.

I believe that this update goes into the wrong direction, homogenizing the various resources, when the game should lean in the other direction. If trade is supposed to represent the trade capability, it should not be stockpileable, it should be a modifier, just like the pop grow speed provided by Gestation Drones; If trade is supposed to represent logistical capability, it should be a capped value, just like the Naval Capacity provided by soldiers.
Do not reduce everything to stockpiles, please.
 
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With the upcoming logistics, i really want little transporters flying back and forth, like trains in Victoria 3!

Imagine the thinned out one/two transports in far off systems compared to the hundreds of ships in the Capital system or the mega alloy forge!
 
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Pros:

- I like that Corporate civics are getting some more distinction from regular empires with the bonuses to branch office buildings.

- I like that gestalts have access to trade now.

- Megacorps being able to build branch offices on other megacorps is great for making megacorp dense galaxies not feel as much of a race competition to get to the non-megacorps to build branch offices.

- Criminal Syndicate minor rework is really cool. I like Criminal Syndicates for how unique they play and giving them the versatility to play “naughty or nice” helps really flesh them out mechanically.

Considerations/Feedback:

- I would like to see gestalts have unique trade policies that aren’t the same as regular empires. I think there’s a lot of potential to go into how differently a singular intelligence with drones would treat trade than an individualist empire would.

- I would like to see a trade policy that focuses on pure stockpiling. The reason is while I think the reworked trade system has a lot more depth than previously, I can also see it putting a lot of tension on economy management decision-making. For example, if you have maxed energy credits and a trade deficit: having half of your trade value that could be fixing your deficit go into a maxed out resource without any way to fix it could cause a lot of frustration.

- Considerations for current upkeep of fleets. Currently, most normal ships cost energy and alloys. With the addition of trade value, if the other values aren’t adjusted then it would seem it would be more costlier to maintain fleets than before. While that may be intended, I think a small reduction in the energy and alloy upkeep percentages might help keep it more balanced than it is currently? To be honest, I don’t feel particularly strongly on this point and I could see it being kept as is with trade value tacked on not being too much of a problem.

- Trade being a military resource. So one potential narrative disconnect I can see happening is that non-militarist megacorps and particularly xenophile empires (that focus on trade value) ends up being superior to Militarist empires at fielding ships simply because of the economic costs. From my understanding, trade is supposed to be a more universal resource given its market power and importance. If possible, I would like to see Militarist empires have some kind of trade value upkeep reduction to compensate for the fact that normal Militarist empires wouldn’t be focused as hard on trade value. (Militarists are more inclined to focus instead on jobs like duelists or alloy production jobs). As a side effect, this would mean that it would be more obvious and clear that a Militarist megacorp or xenophile empire would get “the best of both worlds” essentially.

- The addition of UI elements on the outliner to indicate planets with resource deficits. Given that planetary-wide resource deficits are likely to be rather common, it may be beneficial (particularly to new players) to have some kind of UI element on the outliner to indicate that there is a resource deficit. It shouldn’t be too prominent or alarming since, again, it’s likely to be rather common. I advocate for it mostly as a way for people who are actively managing that aspect for a large empire to have a fast indicator so they don’t have to click on every planet to find which ones have deficits or not.
 
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Will trade be the sole resource of upkeep for ships now? No alloy or rare resource upkeep anymore? Or does it replace energy as upkeep resource? Or does it get trade upkeep in addition to all the current upkeep? How does it interact with menace ships or nanites?
 
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I think it´s weird to have Trade as a "normal" resource.
If trade is supposed to represent the logitical capacity of your empire, it´s weird that you can "stockpile logistics" for later use and "pay" on the Galactic Market using nothing but "logistics"

I would make it so that Merchants (or equivalent Jobs) give you a flat amount of Trade capacity, wich can be used to move nomal resources around.
like this:
View attachment 1251342
  1. Ships/Fleets take up X Trade cap
  2. to move 1 unit of [resource] from one Planet to anoter you need 1 Trade cap
  3. to buy 1 unit of [resource] from the market/other empires you need 1 Trade cap
Much like minerals represents everything from aluminum to clay bricks, trade as described represents a bunch of different but related tangible and intangible stuff. Not all of them are stockpileable and not all of them will apply to all empires but enough are that a stockpile of some kind still makes sense for pretty much any empire.

The galactic market is easy. If I have a bunch of minerals and sell it to the market then now there's an entry in their ledgers saying "+1000 Marketbux". That's absolutely stockpileable.

Planet deficits are also easy. There's an abstracted logistics network shuttling stuff back and forth between the places they're being produced and the planets they're needed. An excess of current logistics represents excess capacity on the network which we can use to get ahead of things; if planet A needs 100 minerals this month we drop off 200, and now they have a one month buffer in case something goes wrong in the future. Banked logistics. If at some point we start consuming more trade than we make that's us eating through our locally stored buffers.

Or maybe we're a MegaCorp who sells our excess shipping capacity to other empires in return for MarketBux and pays independent contractors when we need to shore up our own, and our trade stockpile is literally just adding more numbers to our MarketBux account or internal ledgers. For a regular empire maybe a slow month gives our clerks time to get ahead of their paperwork so they don't fall behind when there's a busy month down the line. Maybe your researchers need particle accelerator time to finish researching cruisers, but they can shuffle that bit towards the end. Maybe our underworked clerks and space truckers and researchers spend all their free time writing trashy romance novels to sell to aliens on Spindle.

Ships are also easy. Yes they take alloys and energy for upkeep to represent maintenance and fuel - but you need to turn them into parts and fuel first! Here logistics represents turning them from raw alloys into ship bits and getting the ship bits to where they need to be, and stockpiled logistics represents how many laser coils and barrels of super hydrogen you actually have on board or in the nearest station. Burn through that stockpile and you're in trouble. If you're a capitalist empire you're paying the crew and if you're a non-capitalist empire you're still shipping them space rum and trashy alien romance novels to stop them going stir crazy. In either case your stockpile represents how long you can keep doing this before you run out of money and alcohol and new reading material and everyone starts getting real grumpy.

And for all of these you also have good will and reputation, both of which are very much bankable. Will the galactic market "forget" to cash the cheque until next week? Will your clerks work overtime to fit 500 tonnes of minerals on two 200 tonne freighters? Will our researchers still research if they're not allowed do the cool explosions? Will our miltary still fight on engine room hooch and last year's copy of The Blorg Who Loved Me? Yes to all of these if you've built the trust and banked the good will and they know that you'll make good soon... for a while, anyway, before bad working conditions and lowered morale start eating away at their efficiency.

Your trade stockpile is all of these added together and then some.
 
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Does this mean that criminal syndicates are no longer able to open branch offices without commercial pacts? If they still can and their buildings add a crime floor, is the only way to remove their unwanted branch offices via war? I assume this can't be the case, as it would have a number of glaring problems.
Criminals can still open Branch Offices without a trade deal, getting the same kind of buildings they have right now and adding 25 crime per building to the planet.
However, they can now get a commercial pact too (if both parties agree), which replaces the buildings with their non criminal variant but every building will add +5 to the crime floor (to a max of +20 crime floor for a fully developed branch office, which is not enough to trigger negative crime effects on its own).
If the commercial pact is broken, the branch office reverts to traditional criminal behavior.

Does that make sense?
 
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The crime floor is a floor and your enforcers will not be able to do anything about it (you basically legalized crime after all). However, you can break your trade agreement with the criminals at any point, reverting the branch office to its usual form and allowing your enforcers to fight crime as normal.




Not yet! (trade agreements are a maybe. I just don't know about them)



Just to clarify, buildings are planet-unique but you can still get up to 4 slots per planet. Just no duplicates of buildings on a planet.
1. So labs, recreationals, and police buildings are out? Are you adding research districts/ districts for each? I want my police world back!

2. Under the new trade system, how does piracy work? If there's no system piracy level and trade, I can't think of any way beyond just doing a random popup of a fleet - or you adding a new situation, which would be extremely annoying to have it always come up.
 
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Criminals can still open Branch Offices without a trade deal, getting the same kind of buildings they have right now and adding 25 crime per building to the planet.
However, they can now get a commercial pact too (if both parties agree), which replaces the buildings with their non criminal variant but every building will add +5 to the crime floor (to a max of +20 crime floor for a fully developed branch office, which is not enough to trigger negative crime effects on its own).
If the commercial pact is broken, the branch office reverts to traditional criminal behavior.

Does that make sense?

Yes, that clarified some things. At first, I thought you were implying that crime branches added a crime floor even without a commercial pact, which made it impossible to remove except through war. Thank you for answering my questions.
 
That's.... that's the exact problem I'm describing. If it charges fleets for staying close out of combat then you're encouraged to do weird micro out of combat to minimise your trade consumption. This forces the devs into an impossible balancing scenario. By charging the doomstack tax only during combat you bypass the whole issue while still charging a tax when it matters.

Not exactly, as you would have the decision to use your trade stockpile for one big, sure engagement, while the other side of the decision would be to maintain a stable supply for a prolonged war.

Betting everything on one pitched battle could deplete your war coffers, leaving you vulnerable for the rest of the war. So doomstacking would still be a thing, but it would cost you a lot in the long run for short-term gains.

That was basically my counter-argument—you can micro around to secure engagements, but it costs you, or you could take a balanced approach for a more stable war.

Yes and no, but that's my point about the whole doomstacking and fleet focus argument for the last six months or so. I've also basically said that any minor changes that don’t address the doomstack issue are wasted work. They need to rework the basics before changing things like trade and pops since everything needs a touch-up if we want to change or mitigate the doomstack issue in the first place.
 
Not exactly, as you would have the decision to use your trade stockpile for one big, sure engagement, while the other side of the decision would be to maintain a stable supply for a prolonged war.

Betting everything on one pitched battle could deplete your war coffers, leaving you vulnerable for the rest of the war. So doomstacking would still be a thing, but it would cost you a lot in the long run for short-term gains.

That was basically my counter-argument—you can micro around to secure engagements, but it costs you, or you could take a balanced approach for a more stable war.

Yes and no, but that's my point about the whole doomstacking and fleet focus argument for the last six months or so. I've also basically said that any minor changes that don’t address the doomstack issue are wasted work. They need to rework the basics before changing things like trade and pops since everything needs a touch-up if we want to change or mitigate the doomstack issue in the first place.
This is still the exact problem I'm talking about. What you're describing is the annoying micro version that I want to avoid. By making the tax only apply in combat you're still encouraged to use your fleets in separate battles, which implies they'd be split up, but if you do want to do a big climactic all out fight it still costs exactly the same as it would in the annoying micro version except you can just send your ships all up at once instead of getting charged more money because two of your fleets happened to funnel through the same system on the way to the fight.

There's no benefit to forcing people to keep their ships apart outside of combat since a doomstack that's not in combat is just a pile of ships. It's only in combat that the doomstack matters so sidestep the whole issue and only charge extra during combat. Same effect but with no perverse incentives.
 
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Will gestalts produce trade 'cheaply' or will convert CGs into trade like individualists?

Also, any chance for a clerk rework to make them a bit better?
 
First, local planetary deficits will carry a small trade upkeep, a fraction of the missing resources value on the galactic market. This represents the logistical effort required to commandeer freighters to supply a world that is not self-sufficient and therefore requires resources to be transported in from off-world. Mind you, this will occur in addition to normal deficits, if your entire empire is not capable of supplying those needs either.

So if I understand this right, does that mean that for example a fully built up forge ecumenopolis will incur a massive trade deficit because of the minerals it needs to import, even if there is a complex of mining habitats in its system which provides ample base material?

Or that the scientists of a ring world will incur trade deficit because of the consumer goods they need, even if their neighbouring ring segment is the empire's greatest consumer goods production hub?
 
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So if I understand this right, does that mean that for example a fully built up forge ecumenopolis will incur a massive trade deficit because of the minerals it needs to import, even if there is a complex of mining habitats in its system which provides ample base material?

Or that the scientists of a ring world will incur trade deficit because of the consumer goods they need, even if their neighbouring ring segment is the empire's greatest consumer goods production hub?
Yeah this is my one beef, it'd be great if this worked at a system level rather than a planetary level. That's a bigger rework though and I'll take what I'm getting for now!
e: That said ringworlds are so huge that shipping CG from one side to the other is probably going to be a pretty big deal anyway.
 
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