• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Stellaris Dev Diary #371 - 4.0 Changes: Part 5

Hi everyone!

This week we’re looking more at the economic changes of the Stellaris 4.0 ‘Phoenix’ update, and how we’re going to update the Planet UI to work with them.

As this is all still in development, things are still subject to change, and I’m going to be using a lot of the UX Design Mockups in this dev diary. The final versions will not match these work-in-progress designs precisely. The Open Beta will definitely not be at these polish levels. Also be aware that numbers on these mockups are all placeholders meant to help the rest of the team get the layout right, so things like the Pop Counts or Production numbers aren’t accurate.

Planets - Districts - Zones - Buildings - Jobs​

As mentioned last week, one of the fundamental changes we’re making to the economy behind the scenes is that planets are now the source of production rather than the pops themselves. This is a generally subtle change from your perspective as a player, but this opened up an opportunity to revamp exactly how planets are structured, and to formalize some of the job hierarchy. A few of you have already guessed some of the things I’m going to share with you.

We’re introducing a new planetary feature: Zones. By specializing Districts, Zones function similarly to how the Forge World, Factory World, and Industrial World designations previously modified the jobs provided by Industrial Districts – only now as a more structured, intuitive, and flexible mechanic.

The 4.0 Planet Hierarchy is:
  • Planets produce and consume resources.
  • Districts provide a base number of Jobs for each level of development.
  • Zones manipulate what Jobs are provided by their District.
  • Buildings typically modify the production of Jobs themselves, though may also provide static numbers of Jobs.
  • Jobs are filled by Workforce, and make the planet produce a single resource by default (unless they have been modified).

Standard planets have a City District that contains your urban development, and remains capped by planet size as it is in 3.14. The City District has four Zones - one will always be locked to a Governmental Zone and contains your Capital Building, while the other three will be selectable. Normal planets also have Mining, Agricultural, and Energy Districts which each have one Zone, and - like 3.14 - are gated by planetary features. Industrial Districts have been removed, as their function has been replaced by Zones.

image3.png

Upgrading Districts is now clearly shown as a button on the Planet UI - this should reduce the number of “it took me X months to realize you can build districts” posts. As part of the increase in differentiation between Districts and Buildings, we’ve changed some of the terminology slightly - instead of building a dozen Districts across a planet, you will upgrade their development level. Functionally this remains the same.

image11.png


Zones are our new addition to the Planet Hierarchy. Zones let you change the nature of their District. By default, the City District will provide Housing and increase the maximum number of Civilians that your planet can support. (Based on design discussions over the past week, we’re leaning towards your Empire Capital having a bonus increasing this number significantly, which has the nice secondary effect of making the conquest of Homeworlds in the early game carry the societal challenge of suddenly creating many angry Dissidents that will be unable to promote back to Civilians as this bonus is lost.) If you build a Foundry Zone, the City District will replace some of their Civilian capacity and housing with Metallurgist jobs for each level of development. If you then build a Factory Zone, the City District will provide both Metallurgist and Artisan jobs, but with further reductions to their Citizen capacity.

image12.png

While you can build multiple Zones of the same type (in your City District, for example), the first Zone of each type built on a planet gains three slots for Buildings. (Duplicate Zones do not grant additional Building slots.) Buildings typically modify the production of their associated Job, and most are now Planet Unique. The majority of Buildings are restricted to the specific relevant Zones that they can be built in, but some can still be built anywhere. The Government Zone and Urban Zone can, however, accept most Urban buildings. The build list will be filtered appropriately.

The majority of Jobs will now have a single output by default, so Researchers are being broken apart into Physicists, Biologists, and Engineers.

Origins and Civics that previously replaced Jobs will now typically instead have a Building that modifies the associated Job. A benefit of this is that it should now be able to stack better with other similar Civics - we hope to be able to reduce restrictions so perhaps you’ll be able to sacrifice willing Pops by flinging them into a black hole for money.

The Planetary Surface​

Your homeworld is a bit of a special case in Stellaris - it’s not a brand new colony, but it’s also not very specialized. It needs to provide a little bit of everything, but could really use some cleanup after all those years of development (becoming an Early Space Age civilization is a dirty job.)

Here’s the work-in-progress UX mockup of what Earth may look like at the start of the game:

image8.png

The unspecialized mess of being an Early Space Age civilization gives us a relatively unspecialized zone that provides us with the basic resources necessary at the start of the game. We’ll eventually want to replace that Zone with a more specialized one.

As we head to the stars, we’ll naturally want to colonize our Guaranteed Habitable Worlds. The new Colonization UI will let us immediately set the desired planetary designation for our brand new colony.

image2.png

Don’t worry, you’ll be able to select something other than Factory World...

Here’s what our new colony could look like once the colonization process finishes:

image7.png

...But why did you choose Mining World for a planet with Poor Quality Minerals?

The Reassembled Ship Shelter provides Colonist jobs that will provide the Amenities and Stability previously granted by the Colony designation. As shown, the technologies required to expand on an alien world are not necessarily the same as those you need back on your home planet.

Our UX designer has created these explanations of the new UI:

image6.png


image1.png

And here’s what our two planets might look like after some time has passed.

image9.png


image10.png

Special Cases​

Ever since MegaCorp, paving the entire world has always been a grand ambition of Empires.

We’re currently thinking that an Ecumenopolis should act like the megacity it is. The Ecumenopolis will have multiple Urban Districts - one large main one and three more smaller Arcologies.

image4.png

Wait, this means you can make a Fortress Ecumenopolis…

Although the gameplay of upgrading a Habitat Complex by building orbitals throughout a system made Habitats more interesting, having to hunt down that last moon to place the orbital proved incredibly annoying.

For 4.0, we’re removing this pain point. Upgrading Districts on a Habitat will spawn Orbitals throughout the system as their Development Level increases. Some of the district capacity will be available immediately upon colonizing the Habitat Central Complex, with the remainder gated by upgrading the Capital Building. We’re also considering having the district capacity for Habitats more closely linked to the deposits available in the system instead of the current behavior where each mineral deposit grants a static amount of capacity.

We expect to see some unique or former districts for habitats be reimagined or return as Zones, such as the Order’s Demesne for KotTG or Sanctuary Districts for Rogue Servitors.

image5.png

Goodbye, hunting for where that last minor orbital is hiding!

Next Week​

Next week, @Gruntsatwork will go into some of the scripting details of Jobs and Pop Groups. We should also have some more information about the upcoming 4.0 livestream.

See you then!
 
  • 121Like
  • 109Love
  • 11
  • 4
  • 4
Reactions:
So my plea to you is... don't make that designation better on its own again without making it obvious or a non-choice. E.g. You can't choose a designation until its grown a reasonable amount.

Given that we can set the designation before a colony ship has even been constructed that shouldn’t be a problem. It’s not even clear the colony designation will remain given some of the benefit is moving to the reassembled ship.
 
  • 4
Reactions:
So my plea to you is... don't make that designation better on its own again without making it obvious or a non-choice. E.g. You can't choose a designation until its grown a reasonable amount.
This line from the dev diary seems to indicate that you won't need to stay with the New Colony designation for optimal play: "The Reassembled Ship Shelter provides Colonist jobs that will provide the Amenities and Stability previously granted by the Colony designation."
 
  • 2
Reactions:
I have to say I'm not a fan of the way this looks like it's really trying to force planetary specialisation even more than what's in the game at the moment.
It really feels bad when a planet only outputs like.. 1 or 2 resources. Dystopian, you know? Not every empire should be the Imperium of Man.

I feel like Specialisation should be a strategic choice which trades efficiency for brittleness, rather than a standard.
 
  • 2
  • 1Like
Reactions:
I disagree with this, I think playing optimally should require good micro but the difference should not be so big that it'll tank you.

Like I think just taking the one you want initially and then ignoring it should be strictly less optimal than using the initial one until a certain point, because it causes you to make decisions "Do I accept this small suboptimal play and don't need to think about it, or will I remember and update the designation later".
Very much disagree. Balancing based on player's patience in a game with pause is never a good time. For things like automation where you're trading "don't have to think about it" for "the AI doing the thinking for me might not do exactly what I would have done" yeah, that's fine, but imposing a direct and deliberate mechanical penalty for turning on the "I wouldn't find it fun to do this myself" button is only going to result in a bunch of players doing things they don't find fun.
 
  • 3Like
  • 2
Reactions:
How will anglers work now? does it just get a flat increase to farm zone development levels? And how will it affect the angler and pearl diver jobs with the new pop system?
 
  • 2
Reactions:
I have a few questions.
  1. In the current state of the game the distinction between districts and buildings provide a viable means to make usage out of planets of all sizes. A small planet is valuable for specializations that rely on building slots, while a larger planet is valuable for specializations that rely on districts. These changes seem to make small planets far less valuable. Are there any ways with this new system to provide planets of all size their own niche? Or will the number of districts be the primary measure of a planet's value?
  2. How will Resort/Thrall/Penal worlds work with this new system?
  3. Will Toilers be reworked so that Thrall worlds will stop being a blackhole for slave pops? In the current state of the game, Thrall worlds boost slave pop growth, but do not allow automatic resettlement because Toilers are considered "employed". This needlessly increases micromanagement if you want to put those slaves somewhere more useful. Please can this be addressed?
This is more of a request/suggestion/food-for-thought:

Have you ever considered removing the cap for all districts? Right now the cap for the resource districts feels arbitrary, and this feels like a great time to rework them. If I want to strip mine a planet, I have to play as a Subterranian. If I want to make an agri-world, then I have to use the Angler civic (restrictions mentioned later). There is no equivalent for energy.

While this would require rebalancing an origin, a civic, and two planet types, I feel that's a small price to pay for a system that feels like it doesn't need to exist in the way it does.

Planetary modifies like Poor Minerals should be a little more common and be the primary way in which to provide a measure of a planet's resources. If I want to strip mine a planet, nothing should stop me from realistically doing so.

A potential compromise could be to make it so that unlocking a technology, such as Terraforming, removes the arbitrary cap limit. At that point, were I playing Anglers, the "Ocean World" restriction would become meaningless as I could just terraform every single one of my planets into an Ocean World. I can reshape entire planets. So why am I limited to just 1 or 2 mining districts?

As I mentioned above, the modifiers that exist in-game are underutilized and would be great if we saw them more frequently. Heck, we even have planetary deposits that could also be a good avenue to measure the wealth of a planet. Heck, a planet could have several planetary deposits that involve minerals, but all of them are locked behind the existing blockers. So we could colonize an incredibly wealthy mining world that will not unlock its full potential until we've devoted the sociological research to removing all of those blockers.

As for rebalancing the existing features. Well, I personally think that Machine and Hive worlds should become the equivalent of Arcology worlds for those government types, since they lack access to them, rather than just being Gaia Planets, but with uncapped districts. As for the civil and origin, perhaps a bonus to workforce to those jobs, instead?

Again, just a suggestion, not something I expect to ever happen. But it was interesting to think about.
 
  • 3
Reactions:
Do we know if rare colonization techs/ascensions such as "resort world," "holy world," and "penal colony" will result in new colony designations and meaningful changes to the types of zones that can be placed and the kind of output they create?

EDIT: Because that would be rad.
 
  • 3
  • 1
Reactions:
antimatter has to be manufactured so it’s not a primary energy source, but a battery
This. If it were up to me, ships with antimatter reactors would need to be supplied with antimatter made planetside; and I would even go as far as to say that antimatter should be how you transport energy between planets.
 
Do zones without buildings still modify jobs? How many jobs are modified per zone per district level per district? Why do job civics have to pay the building tax instead of having special zones for them(anglers civic comes to mind)? Districts becoming generic could be a problem by moving the uniqueness to the zones feature, needs careful weighting.

Furthermore, I don't see a reason to lock some jobs completely under some districts. There could be a zone for biologists under agricultural districts with appropriate buildings(instead of restricting to city districts), maybe even have them require food to do research? Similarly, a planet with the appropriate feature could have zones for crystal mining.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
I have a question.

Wouldn't using "Industrial District" instead of "Mining District" be more appropriate?
City Dsitricts would be zoned for pop capacity/trade/research/amenities
Industrial Districts would be zoned for mining complexes/forges/refineries/special resource production

What do you guys think?



ps.: What about Ring Worlds?
 
  • 3
Reactions:
Wouldn't using "Industrial District" instead of "Mining District" be more appropriate?
I don't think that's a good idea. Mining districts and jobs serve a somewhat different purpose from industrial ones mechanically. Mining is focuses on acquiring the minerals, industrial jobs and districts are about processing them into other resources.
 
  • 2
  • 1Like
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
Hello everyone!

Please put features and modifiers in a centralized location that's front and center.

One of my biggest gripes with the current implementation is that there's no way to see at a glance the "quality" of a planet since features are hidden in a submenu.

I think that even having too switch to the management tab to see features is too much. Features are important for both flavor and understanding how you want a planet to develop. They should ideally be on the main page and somewhere close to information on the planet's size, available districts, and modifiers.
 
  • 3
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Personally I don't agree on removal of Industrial Districts. Industrial manufacturing on planetary scale is quite distinct endeavour for it to warrant it's own district, in my opinion. Why then Mining, Agricultural and Energy Districts are still seperate? Why not just roll them into one Rural District, with zones acting as specializations?

Other than that i like these changes.
 
  • 5
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Personally I don't agree on removal of Industrial Districts. Industrial manufacturing on planetary scale is quite distinct endeavour for it to warrant it's own district, in my opinion. Why then Mining, Agricultural and Energy Districts are still seperate? Why not just roll them into one Rural District, with zones acting as specializations?
I see there is generally an argument in favor of keeping City and Industrial districts separate, with City districts choosing between Research, Administrative, Military Zones and Industrial districts choosing between Forge, Factory, Refinery Zones.
 
Last edited:
  • 6
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:
I'm as excited as anyone else for 4.0, but I do have a couple of points to make regarding this particular dev diary.

re: Researcher job split
This is pretty minor, but I think that "Sociologist" would be a more fitting name for Society researchers than "Biologist", since Society research in this game covers a lot more than just biology.

re: Habitats, Orbitals, and Orbital Rings
[...] having to hunt down that last moon to place the orbital proved incredibly annoying.
I never had a problem with this. It's as simple as selecting a Construction Ship, right-clicking the system you want to build an Orbital in from the galaxy view, selecting Build Megastructure, and picking the type of Orbital you want to build (Major or Minor). The game automatically zooms in to the system and highlights valid celestial bodies for you, and if there are no valid celestial bodies, then the Orbital option in the Megastructure list is grayed out.

Make no mistake, I like the idea of Habitat Orbitals automatically appearing around the system as a Habitat gets developed. What I'm concerned about is how that might interfere with Orbital Rings.

Say you have a system that contains a habitable planet, and you also build a Habitat in orbit of the system's star. You colonize both the planet and Habitat, upgrade a District on the Habitat, and - oops, now there's a Habitat Orbital on the habitable planet instead of the Orbital Ring you wanted to put there later.

Will there be a way to prevent this scenario that isn't just "don't build/colonize/develop the Habitat until you've built the Orbital Ring"?
 
Last edited:
One reason I'm somewhat fond of keeping all Urban district zones attached to the City district alone is because of this:
I was wondering about Ecumenopolis and Habitats specifically.

For instance what's the difference between selecting one of the three "secondary" districts to be a Trade Arcology, versus creating a Trade Zone in the Residential Arcology?

Will it be something like "secondary" districts adding more jobs than the urban districts gets from zones to justify having to develop them independently from the main urban district?
All of the separate district types compete for districts slots. Zones of an Urban districts do not, they all benefit from the development of the City district. You can specialize the City district towards multiple zones, without having to worry about having to split districts slots between too many district types.
 
  • 1
  • 1Like
Reactions:
This changes make we want to come back to stellaris and play once again. Paradox seems to be one of the few games studios with ambitions and ready to change a lot of things to fix issues. I am really happy to see the way stellaris is taking !
 
  • 3
Reactions:
I always had this question in my mind: why does a Dyson sphere doesn't require workforce to produce energy, while the ringworld does?

If we have the technology for a stellaris dyson sphere ingame, then why do we not have ringworlds, planets and habitats auto generating energy as well?

Somewhere somehow, the game implies full automation without the requirement for workforce on some places but not on others. Is it possible to learn this power??? :)

In fact, the labor cost can be represented by the maintenance cost of the megastructure.
However, this cost is indeed low or non-existent.
Afterwards, the megastructures in Stellaris are incredibly disappointing in terms of power.

But with the change in trade value, we could perhaps just increase in a "significant" way the cost in energy and alloy of megastructures (including habitat, gate way, hyper relay).
Obviously, these resources must be imported, thus consuming logistics which would be represented by a consumption of trade value, as for the deficit worlds.
We could also add a higher trade value cost to represent the workers who ensure the operation and maintenance.

In return, the power of megastructures could be increased while making it more progressive by adding levels.
If the maintenance cost (workers are needed to create trade value and resources) is high enough, we could remove the number limits for megastructures.

The construction of megastructures (including upgrading) could also consume surplus trade value to represent the transportation of resources and the personnel mobilized.
 
  • 1
  • 1Like
Reactions: