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Stellaris Dev Diary #371 - 4.0 Changes: Part 5

Hi everyone!

This week we’re looking more at the economic changes of the Stellaris 4.0 ‘Phoenix’ update, and how we’re going to update the Planet UI to work with them.

As this is all still in development, things are still subject to change, and I’m going to be using a lot of the UX Design Mockups in this dev diary. The final versions will not match these work-in-progress designs precisely. The Open Beta will definitely not be at these polish levels. Also be aware that numbers on these mockups are all placeholders meant to help the rest of the team get the layout right, so things like the Pop Counts or Production numbers aren’t accurate.

Planets - Districts - Zones - Buildings - Jobs​

As mentioned last week, one of the fundamental changes we’re making to the economy behind the scenes is that planets are now the source of production rather than the pops themselves. This is a generally subtle change from your perspective as a player, but this opened up an opportunity to revamp exactly how planets are structured, and to formalize some of the job hierarchy. A few of you have already guessed some of the things I’m going to share with you.

We’re introducing a new planetary feature: Zones. By specializing Districts, Zones function similarly to how the Forge World, Factory World, and Industrial World designations previously modified the jobs provided by Industrial Districts – only now as a more structured, intuitive, and flexible mechanic.

The 4.0 Planet Hierarchy is:
  • Planets produce and consume resources.
  • Districts provide a base number of Jobs for each level of development.
  • Zones manipulate what Jobs are provided by their District.
  • Buildings typically modify the production of Jobs themselves, though may also provide static numbers of Jobs.
  • Jobs are filled by Workforce, and make the planet produce a single resource by default (unless they have been modified).

Standard planets have a City District that contains your urban development, and remains capped by planet size as it is in 3.14. The City District has four Zones - one will always be locked to a Governmental Zone and contains your Capital Building, while the other three will be selectable. Normal planets also have Mining, Agricultural, and Energy Districts which each have one Zone, and - like 3.14 - are gated by planetary features. Industrial Districts have been removed, as their function has been replaced by Zones.

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Upgrading Districts is now clearly shown as a button on the Planet UI - this should reduce the number of “it took me X months to realize you can build districts” posts. As part of the increase in differentiation between Districts and Buildings, we’ve changed some of the terminology slightly - instead of building a dozen Districts across a planet, you will upgrade their development level. Functionally this remains the same.

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Zones are our new addition to the Planet Hierarchy. Zones let you change the nature of their District. By default, the City District will provide Housing and increase the maximum number of Civilians that your planet can support. (Based on design discussions over the past week, we’re leaning towards your Empire Capital having a bonus increasing this number significantly, which has the nice secondary effect of making the conquest of Homeworlds in the early game carry the societal challenge of suddenly creating many angry Dissidents that will be unable to promote back to Civilians as this bonus is lost.) If you build a Foundry Zone, the City District will replace some of their Civilian capacity and housing with Metallurgist jobs for each level of development. If you then build a Factory Zone, the City District will provide both Metallurgist and Artisan jobs, but with further reductions to their Citizen capacity.

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While you can build multiple Zones of the same type (in your City District, for example), the first Zone of each type built on a planet gains three slots for Buildings. (Duplicate Zones do not grant additional Building slots.) Buildings typically modify the production of their associated Job, and most are now Planet Unique. The majority of Buildings are restricted to the specific relevant Zones that they can be built in, but some can still be built anywhere. The Government Zone and Urban Zone can, however, accept most Urban buildings. The build list will be filtered appropriately.

The majority of Jobs will now have a single output by default, so Researchers are being broken apart into Physicists, Biologists, and Engineers.

Origins and Civics that previously replaced Jobs will now typically instead have a Building that modifies the associated Job. A benefit of this is that it should now be able to stack better with other similar Civics - we hope to be able to reduce restrictions so perhaps you’ll be able to sacrifice willing Pops by flinging them into a black hole for money.

The Planetary Surface​

Your homeworld is a bit of a special case in Stellaris - it’s not a brand new colony, but it’s also not very specialized. It needs to provide a little bit of everything, but could really use some cleanup after all those years of development (becoming an Early Space Age civilization is a dirty job.)

Here’s the work-in-progress UX mockup of what Earth may look like at the start of the game:

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The unspecialized mess of being an Early Space Age civilization gives us a relatively unspecialized zone that provides us with the basic resources necessary at the start of the game. We’ll eventually want to replace that Zone with a more specialized one.

As we head to the stars, we’ll naturally want to colonize our Guaranteed Habitable Worlds. The new Colonization UI will let us immediately set the desired planetary designation for our brand new colony.

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Don’t worry, you’ll be able to select something other than Factory World...

Here’s what our new colony could look like once the colonization process finishes:

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...But why did you choose Mining World for a planet with Poor Quality Minerals?

The Reassembled Ship Shelter provides Colonist jobs that will provide the Amenities and Stability previously granted by the Colony designation. As shown, the technologies required to expand on an alien world are not necessarily the same as those you need back on your home planet.

Our UX designer has created these explanations of the new UI:

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And here’s what our two planets might look like after some time has passed.

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Special Cases​

Ever since MegaCorp, paving the entire world has always been a grand ambition of Empires.

We’re currently thinking that an Ecumenopolis should act like the megacity it is. The Ecumenopolis will have multiple Urban Districts - one large main one and three more smaller Arcologies.

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Wait, this means you can make a Fortress Ecumenopolis…

Although the gameplay of upgrading a Habitat Complex by building orbitals throughout a system made Habitats more interesting, having to hunt down that last moon to place the orbital proved incredibly annoying.

For 4.0, we’re removing this pain point. Upgrading Districts on a Habitat will spawn Orbitals throughout the system as their Development Level increases. Some of the district capacity will be available immediately upon colonizing the Habitat Central Complex, with the remainder gated by upgrading the Capital Building. We’re also considering having the district capacity for Habitats more closely linked to the deposits available in the system instead of the current behavior where each mineral deposit grants a static amount of capacity.

We expect to see some unique or former districts for habitats be reimagined or return as Zones, such as the Order’s Demesne for KotTG or Sanctuary Districts for Rogue Servitors.

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Goodbye, hunting for where that last minor orbital is hiding!

Next Week​

Next week, @Gruntsatwork will go into some of the scripting details of Jobs and Pop Groups. We should also have some more information about the upcoming 4.0 livestream.

See you then!
 
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I think massive specialization of planets, and any mechanic that encourages it, just does the opposite of making planets more unique or diverse, instead making them feel like just lines in a spreadsheet (ok, Stellaris and almost every 4X/GSG looks like a fancy spreadsheet, but i'm speaking about true spreadsheets).

Mining World #1, #2, #3, #4... all the same. Some people doesnt even bother to put a name on them. Just build the same template over and over and forget they exist.

Boring gameplay.
 
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I think massive specialization of planets, and any mechanic that encourages it, just does the opposite of making planets more unique or diverse, instead making them feel like just lines in a spreadsheet (ok, Stellaris and almost every 4X/GSG looks like a fancy spreadsheet, but i'm speaking about true spreadsheets).

Mining World #1, #2, #3, #4... all the same. Some people doesnt even bother to put a name on them. Just build the same template over and over and forget they exist.

Boring gameplay.

I think this touches on the problem I have with planets as they are now. Planetary features? Just more basic resource district slots that I'm probably not even going to use most of the time. Rare resource planetary features? Guess I'll build more mining districts here than I was going to originally. Modifiers? Guess I'll build my science labs here. Habitability? Yeah, I guess it's a concern in the early game, until you get more species/habitability upgrades/terraforming/synths and you can stop caring.

I would like more planet subclasses and distinctions in the future, but I think this new districts/zones system could go a long way toward giving planets unique character and 'covetability'. Like one of the things in any 4X game is that I should covet that awesome city/continent/planet my rival owns and want to grab it from them, but people seem to express the opposite sentiment a lot of the time - "look at all these awful planets I've conquered from the AI, I'm just going to go Colossus next time so I don't have to deal with them".
 
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Mining World #1, #2, #3, #4... all the same. Some people doesnt even bother to put a name on them. Just build the same template over and over and forget they exist.
Fanatical Optimizationist pops will always join the Templars of Templatization faction, and the only way to expel that faction from your empire is to remove all opportunities for optimization.
 
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I think massive specialization of planets, and any mechanic that encourages it, just does the opposite of making planets more unique or diverse, instead making them feel like just lines in a spreadsheet (ok, Stellaris and almost every 4X/GSG looks like a fancy spreadsheet, but i'm speaking about true spreadsheets).

Mining World #1, #2, #3, #4... all the same. Some people doesnt even bother to put a name on them. Just build the same template over and over and forget they exist.

Boring gameplay.
That's what science and sci fi is all about: specialization. This means that you don't like designations, or any efficiency layout and by extension I'd say half the game, because it's all about cobinations of choices that create more output than your competition.

I'm not attacking you, I understand the need of a stellaris version that would be zen like, far more relaxed. Nothing wrong with that. I usually switch into that kind of mode after I practically won the game, and start partaking into vanity projects.
 
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That's what science and sci fi is all about: specialization. This means that you don't like designations, or any efficiency layout and by extension I'd say half the game, because it's all about cobinations of choices that create more output than your competition.

I'm not attacking you, I understand the need of a stellaris version that would be zen like, far more relaxed. Nothing wrong with that. I usually switch into that kind of mode after I practically won the game, and start partaking into vanity projects.
To be honest, the new local resource deficit system might make non-specialization viable. In theory, you could either go all-in specialized, but also need trade to cover deficits... or balance planets to produce most or all of their own upkeep, and not need any trade for the nonexistent deficit.

I'm holding judgement for now, because I see the potential benefits (mainly the above added playstyle).

But it also seems somewhat reminiscent of admin capacity, and might just mean smaller empires can't really specialize because they need to avoid the deficit while larger ones just make a couple trade worlds and specialize away. If it's well executed, many possible styles of play have been added... and if not, it's basically the same effective thing as admin capacity, with the associated pitfalls, and will end up being removed.

It also has the potential to rein in vassal spam a bit, as those resources will, in coming from worlds you don't own, all require trade to cover the deficit. Actually, making that penalty larger for vassal income could go a long way towards making vassals more appropriately balanced - even with no other changes you'd still be able to drain them dry with insane taxes, but wouldn't actually get those resources entirely for free.
 
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I think massive specialization of planets, and any mechanic that encourages it, just does the opposite of making planets more unique or diverse, instead making them feel like just lines in a spreadsheet (ok, Stellaris and almost every 4X/GSG looks like a fancy spreadsheet, but i'm speaking about true spreadsheets).

Mining World #1, #2, #3, #4... all the same. Some people doesnt even bother to put a name on them. Just build the same template over and over and forget they exist.

Boring gameplay.
I don't think I agree personally.

What do you expect to make planets unique or diverse if there's no specialization? Because then every planet will look practically identical, just a few extra districts here or there.
 
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It's odd that the Generator district is now being displayed after the Mining and Agriculture districts. Could you rearrange them to be Generator, then Mining, then Agriculture.
 
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I have to say I'm not a fan of the way this looks like it's really trying to force planetary specialisation even more than what's in the game at the moment.
It really feels bad when a planet only outputs like.. 1 or 2 resources. Dystopian, you know? Not every empire should be the Imperium of Man.

I feel like Specialisation should be a strategic choice which trades efficiency for brittleness, rather than a standard.
I read what we've seen of 4.0 so far as making generalised planets much more viable, especially if you look at it in the context of the new logistics mechanics from the previous diaries. Since each zone type gets their own building slots the only opportunity cost to building farms and power plants and minerals and cg and science on the same planet will be pops and districts. All five of these jobs can run at max efficiency on the same planet, as opposed to the current setup where building a mineral processing plant would be stealing a potential science building.

So the stick is nowhere near as big, and the last dev diary gave us the carrot. Having all those in the same planet means we'll (presumably) be laying out more in building construction and upkeep costs over just building three science zones... but we're paying nothing in logistics. We're not importing food or energy or cg for the researchers or minerals for the cg. A pure science planet would be paying trade to import the food and energy and cg.

So if you find a planet with a huge science modifier yeah it'll probably be worth the import costs to just fill it with scientists, and maybe smaller planets won't be worth the extra setup cost to make them self sufficient, but they'd have to really mess up the implementation of what's been described for this not to be a pretty hefty boost to non-Hellworld play (while still leaving Hellworlds perfectly viable).
 
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Personally I don't agree on removal of Industrial Districts. Industrial manufacturing on planetary scale is quite distinct endeavour for it to warrant it's own district, in my opinion. Why then Mining, Agricultural and Energy Districts are still seperate? Why not just roll them into one Rural District, with zones acting as specializations?

Other than that i like these changes.
Mining, agriculture, and energy are limited based on a combination of planet size and planetary features. Cities and industrial districts are only limited by size. Building a city or farm will not necessarily reduce the number of energy districts you can build so them all being distinct sections makes sense. But every city or industrial district is in direct competition with each other so splitting them into two discrete districts is pretty redundant from a gameplay and mechanics perspective.

You're right that a planet being all industrial is pretty distinct, but so is a planet being all science or all entertainers or all priests. It should be prominent, yes... but that's why the UI box that contains the industrial or science or priest zones is right smack bang in the middle of the UI with all the district elements clustered around it in worship and supplication ;)
 
That's what science and sci fi is all about: specialization. This means that you don't like designations, or any efficiency layout and by extension I'd say half the game, because it's all about cobinations of choices that create more output than your competition.

I'm not attacking you, I understand the need of a stellaris version that would be zen like, far more relaxed. Nothing wrong with that. I usually switch into that kind of mode after I practically won the game, and start partaking into vanity projects.
I don't think I agree personally.

What do you expect to make planets unique or diverse if there's no specialization? Because then every planet will look practically identical, just a few extra districts here or there.

I'm not against specialization, i'm against massive specialization, or the gameplay we have right now where theres little to no reason to not specialize all your planets.

You pick a planet, if it has more districts of X or a planetary feature improving X you go all X and its over, you can forget the planet exists because you finished your interaction with it until the end of the gameplay.

I'm not against having forge worlds, agro worlds, mining worlds. I'm against having twenty of each because otherwise you're playing the game wrong.
 
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I'm not against specialization, i'm against massive specialization, or the gameplay we have right now where theres little to no reason to not specialize all your planets.

You pick a planet, if it has more districts of X or a planetary feature improving X you go all X and its over, you can forget the planet exist because you finished your interaction with it until the end of the gameplay.

I'm not against having forge worlds, agro worlds, mining worlda. I'm against having twenty of each because otherwise you're playing the game wrong.
I would like planets to be at various places on a sliding scale of self sufficient to mining hellworld with where a specific planet lies being determined by planet features, planet modifiers, civics, origins, current and future empire needs, historical leftovers from previous empire needs, stuff left over from whoever owned it before me, and how lazy I'm feeling.

So I'm pretty hype for 4.0!
 
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I'm not against having forge worlds, agro worlds, mining worlds. I'm against having twenty of each because otherwise you're playing the game wrong.

If you have sixty colonies, of course people are going to make the choices that minimize the cognitive load from each individual planet.
 
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If you have sixty colonies, of course people are going to make the choices that minimize the cognitive load from each individual planet.
Yes, and the root of their complaint is that in the current system the only way to reduce cognitive load without nerfing the hell out of yourself is setting everything to various flavours of hellworld.

If I have 60 planets I want 40 to 50 planets as pleasant, natural looking places to live which still contribute meaningfully to the economy, and 10 to 20 hellworlds built to maximally exploit the uniquely and exceptionally bizarre aspects of the strange new worlds they're built on. Exceptional Minerals is a good reason to turn a planet into a mining hellpit, but due to how the current system handles automation, planet specialities, and a few other things, even a perfectly unremarkable planet with no special features is going to be set to a single resource production hellworld specialisation because that's just the easiest and most productive thing to do. To continue to overuse a phrase: If everything's a hellworld then nothing is a hellworld.

In the new system it seems mixed economy planets will be much more viable and much easier to automate, so you can have low cognitive load planets that are both competitive and also look like somewhere someone would actually want to live, making your planets feel more like "real" planets while making the Exceptional Minerals +crystals +motes planet I converted into a pure mining hellworld supplying 50% of my empire's excess raw metal all the more hellworldly by comparison.
 
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Yes, and the root of their complaint is that in the current system the only way to reduce cognitive load without nerfing the hell out of yourself is setting everything to various flavours of hellworld.

I do like the idea of more diverse features to make planets feel special, but I don’t think a fully specialised planet is automatically a hellworld. That’s something you can imagine if you like for certain empires, but there’s no reason something like an agriworld couldn’t be extremely pleasant with picturesque villages separated by oceans of fields. Just because they need to import their tractors and personal gadgets doesn’t mean it’s hell.
 
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I do like the idea of more diverse features to make planets feel special, but I don’t think a fully specialised planet is automatically a hellworld. That’s something you can imagine if you like for certain empires, but there’s no reason something like an agriworld couldn’t be extremely pleasant with picturesque villages separated by oceans of fields. Just because they need to import their tractors and personal gadgets doesn’t mean it’s hell.
Ah yes, my giant idyllic farm worlds making alloys is such a hellish existance.
Ah, I see neither of you have ever been to an industrial megafarm.
 
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