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Stellaris Dev Diary #371 - 4.0 Changes: Part 5

Hi everyone!

This week we’re looking more at the economic changes of the Stellaris 4.0 ‘Phoenix’ update, and how we’re going to update the Planet UI to work with them.

As this is all still in development, things are still subject to change, and I’m going to be using a lot of the UX Design Mockups in this dev diary. The final versions will not match these work-in-progress designs precisely. The Open Beta will definitely not be at these polish levels. Also be aware that numbers on these mockups are all placeholders meant to help the rest of the team get the layout right, so things like the Pop Counts or Production numbers aren’t accurate.

Planets - Districts - Zones - Buildings - Jobs​

As mentioned last week, one of the fundamental changes we’re making to the economy behind the scenes is that planets are now the source of production rather than the pops themselves. This is a generally subtle change from your perspective as a player, but this opened up an opportunity to revamp exactly how planets are structured, and to formalize some of the job hierarchy. A few of you have already guessed some of the things I’m going to share with you.

We’re introducing a new planetary feature: Zones. By specializing Districts, Zones function similarly to how the Forge World, Factory World, and Industrial World designations previously modified the jobs provided by Industrial Districts – only now as a more structured, intuitive, and flexible mechanic.

The 4.0 Planet Hierarchy is:
  • Planets produce and consume resources.
  • Districts provide a base number of Jobs for each level of development.
  • Zones manipulate what Jobs are provided by their District.
  • Buildings typically modify the production of Jobs themselves, though may also provide static numbers of Jobs.
  • Jobs are filled by Workforce, and make the planet produce a single resource by default (unless they have been modified).

Standard planets have a City District that contains your urban development, and remains capped by planet size as it is in 3.14. The City District has four Zones - one will always be locked to a Governmental Zone and contains your Capital Building, while the other three will be selectable. Normal planets also have Mining, Agricultural, and Energy Districts which each have one Zone, and - like 3.14 - are gated by planetary features. Industrial Districts have been removed, as their function has been replaced by Zones.

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Upgrading Districts is now clearly shown as a button on the Planet UI - this should reduce the number of “it took me X months to realize you can build districts” posts. As part of the increase in differentiation between Districts and Buildings, we’ve changed some of the terminology slightly - instead of building a dozen Districts across a planet, you will upgrade their development level. Functionally this remains the same.

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Zones are our new addition to the Planet Hierarchy. Zones let you change the nature of their District. By default, the City District will provide Housing and increase the maximum number of Civilians that your planet can support. (Based on design discussions over the past week, we’re leaning towards your Empire Capital having a bonus increasing this number significantly, which has the nice secondary effect of making the conquest of Homeworlds in the early game carry the societal challenge of suddenly creating many angry Dissidents that will be unable to promote back to Civilians as this bonus is lost.) If you build a Foundry Zone, the City District will replace some of their Civilian capacity and housing with Metallurgist jobs for each level of development. If you then build a Factory Zone, the City District will provide both Metallurgist and Artisan jobs, but with further reductions to their Citizen capacity.

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While you can build multiple Zones of the same type (in your City District, for example), the first Zone of each type built on a planet gains three slots for Buildings. (Duplicate Zones do not grant additional Building slots.) Buildings typically modify the production of their associated Job, and most are now Planet Unique. The majority of Buildings are restricted to the specific relevant Zones that they can be built in, but some can still be built anywhere. The Government Zone and Urban Zone can, however, accept most Urban buildings. The build list will be filtered appropriately.

The majority of Jobs will now have a single output by default, so Researchers are being broken apart into Physicists, Biologists, and Engineers.

Origins and Civics that previously replaced Jobs will now typically instead have a Building that modifies the associated Job. A benefit of this is that it should now be able to stack better with other similar Civics - we hope to be able to reduce restrictions so perhaps you’ll be able to sacrifice willing Pops by flinging them into a black hole for money.

The Planetary Surface​

Your homeworld is a bit of a special case in Stellaris - it’s not a brand new colony, but it’s also not very specialized. It needs to provide a little bit of everything, but could really use some cleanup after all those years of development (becoming an Early Space Age civilization is a dirty job.)

Here’s the work-in-progress UX mockup of what Earth may look like at the start of the game:

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The unspecialized mess of being an Early Space Age civilization gives us a relatively unspecialized zone that provides us with the basic resources necessary at the start of the game. We’ll eventually want to replace that Zone with a more specialized one.

As we head to the stars, we’ll naturally want to colonize our Guaranteed Habitable Worlds. The new Colonization UI will let us immediately set the desired planetary designation for our brand new colony.

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Don’t worry, you’ll be able to select something other than Factory World...

Here’s what our new colony could look like once the colonization process finishes:

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...But why did you choose Mining World for a planet with Poor Quality Minerals?

The Reassembled Ship Shelter provides Colonist jobs that will provide the Amenities and Stability previously granted by the Colony designation. As shown, the technologies required to expand on an alien world are not necessarily the same as those you need back on your home planet.

Our UX designer has created these explanations of the new UI:

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And here’s what our two planets might look like after some time has passed.

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Special Cases​

Ever since MegaCorp, paving the entire world has always been a grand ambition of Empires.

We’re currently thinking that an Ecumenopolis should act like the megacity it is. The Ecumenopolis will have multiple Urban Districts - one large main one and three more smaller Arcologies.

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Wait, this means you can make a Fortress Ecumenopolis…

Although the gameplay of upgrading a Habitat Complex by building orbitals throughout a system made Habitats more interesting, having to hunt down that last moon to place the orbital proved incredibly annoying.

For 4.0, we’re removing this pain point. Upgrading Districts on a Habitat will spawn Orbitals throughout the system as their Development Level increases. Some of the district capacity will be available immediately upon colonizing the Habitat Central Complex, with the remainder gated by upgrading the Capital Building. We’re also considering having the district capacity for Habitats more closely linked to the deposits available in the system instead of the current behavior where each mineral deposit grants a static amount of capacity.

We expect to see some unique or former districts for habitats be reimagined or return as Zones, such as the Order’s Demesne for KotTG or Sanctuary Districts for Rogue Servitors.

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Goodbye, hunting for where that last minor orbital is hiding!

Next Week​

Next week, @Gruntsatwork will go into some of the scripting details of Jobs and Pop Groups. We should also have some more information about the upcoming 4.0 livestream.

See you then!
 
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I don't really see the problem. If you are at that level of micromanagement, you could still just resettle extra pops of one type on other planets in 4.0 and if you filled all the spots for that type of pop on all your planets... pop control is your friend.

It's probably better to have your pops overfill at first and be resettled than to block their growth too early. In 4.0 each specie will grow so if you prevent some to do so it will be a net loss (at least until you have filled every single job you want that pop to fill)
If you block growth of one species won't the others grow faster?
 
Overall, are we having more buildings slots? I ask because the new terminology confuses me a bit, by buildings I mean what we currently have, even if their name changes in 4.0
You will have between 3 and 21 building slots depending on researched tech and what you choose to do with the planet. More generalised means more slots. But also new buildings vs old buildings is not as like for like as keeping the name would imply.
 
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Honestly look amazing the only point of dissagreament is number of zones in Ecumonopolis. Why 2 in the main where other planets have 3? if anything they should excel at the number of building slots they provide.
 
MAJOR QUESTION: As it was already said that several different species would grow simultaneously, will we be able to 'mark' only some pops to grow or some not to grow on a per planet basis?

THIS IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT. I will use an example. With the previous system you could move a few of your main pops to have them be rulers on lets say an energy world. Then you would choose for growth and assembly the pops you ant for that world (energy focused ones in this example, though applies to anything really). Afterwards you disable migration for everybody. That way there would be 2 or 3 species in that planet (depending on if you assemble the same or a different species). You could then 'forget' about that planet and rest assured that there where always going to be the X main pops you moved there as rulers, and the 2 other species you decided to grow and assemble there.

If the new system doesn't allow to 'disable' certain species growth/assembly per planet, then in that same example you would end growing all species, eventually having more rulers than the ones you intended. This would essentially remove a possibility that we currently have to ensure we properly control our population.

In this example you might think that there is no problem as the main pop is probably 'good'. But that's besides the point, I could have just moved X chattel slaves, then Y indentured ones. I want the first to stay in a constant number, so I just choose the other one to grow. Now both would grow, and that is undesirable in many scenarios.

And, just in case, enabling population controls doesn't solve the issue as that would be empire wide, and perhaps I do want those chattel slaves growing freely in other places, but not in this planet.

In any case, the question, will this still be possible?
If I were to guess, enabling Population Controls will still let you chose if a specific pop allowed to grow or not. You'll just be turning all the ones you don't want off instead of switching the selected species.
 
I don't really see the problem. If you are at that level of micromanagement, you could still just resettle extra pops of one type on other planets in 4.0 and if you filled all the spots for that type of pop on all your planets... pop control is your friend.

It's probably better to have your pops overfill at first and be resettled than to block their growth too early. In 4.0 each specie will grow so if you prevent some to do so it will be a net loss (at least until you have filled every single job you want that pop to fill)
In fact, what you propose is more micro heavy. I would need to resettle away the pops I do not want in that world every X amount of time.

Previously I didn't had to. It was as simple as move A pops to planet, set X to grow and y to assemble, then enable migration control for everyone, that is just a few clicks, but it saved plenty of resettling time, and their associated resources. In the end i knew that planet "Planet1" would have just the pops I set there, in this example, A (the 3 dudes I manually resettled, once) X and Y which are grown and assembled respectively.

With the current system it will happen that, since they all grow, then A will eventually grow besides the 3 dudes I initially wanted (in this example) and require resettlement every XX amount of time.

Additionally, I never said anything about doing it earlier or later, just the possibility. In fact, both earlier on and alter there are scenarios when you want to do this to deal with things like habitability and world specialization. And that is not even considering RP potential. A good example of this is Necrophage rulers:
1. Colonize P1
2. Move 2 Necros to be rulers
3. Set X species to grow and Y to be assembled (both optimized for the job of that planet or whatever reason you have for it)
4. Forget about that planet as you know that those Necro pops will always be just 2 and never work other jobs.

Now, 4 changes and becomes:
4. Eventually a Necro pop 'grows' (slow as hell, but its just an example) and might take a worker job that is available. Which is bad, as I would prefer X or y to take that job in a few months once the pop is 'grown' or 'assembled' as X and Y are optimized for that job, while my Necro one is not (and also has a -10% worker output penalty)

And this is not even about necrophage btw, its just an example.

Can happen with any build that makes use of specialized pops, some people don't, but some people do like the idea of optimizing stuff (to different degrees, I am not talking about min maxing, but using gene modding more than just having 1 template).

Imagine having Overtuned Cyborgs triple stacked for research, grow and take a job that was meant for another species that can be a better metallurgist? If there are 10 spots for researchers, you can move 10 Overtuned Cyborgs for that research (with the current system) and don't worry about them while a second species works those artificer jobs (again, an example).

The new system would make it so those 'intellectual' overtuned cyborgs eventually grow and need a job, but what I do not want them working in this planet? Then I am forced to resettle them, previously I had other ways of dealing with it.

Hopefully these examples better clarify the issue.
 
If I were to guess, enabling Population Controls will still let you chose if a specific pop allowed to grow or not. You'll just be turning all the ones you don't want off instead of switching the selected species.
This is what I want to know. If that is the case, then we will have the same possibilities we did before, but if we don't, then we will lose some functionality (which was very interesting mechanics and RP wise with some builds). That's why I asked. And sadly, full pop control everywhere doesn't solve it as the previous system did.

As enabling pop control ceases pop growth empire wide, but in this examples it is only wanted in a portion of your planets. Hopefully a dev can clarify it.
 
Right now yes, but not sure it will be the case in 4.0
If all pop groups will grow, this implies that there might be a floor to pop growth. For instance, if the growth rate is 1% but the pop group is smaller than 100, we might be getting +1 pop per month regardless of whether the pop group size is at 90 or at 10. This would have the implication that the fastest way to grow pops is to have 1 pop on each of many worlds, thereby growing +1 pop (+100% growth rate) per month on each of them. The worlds would need to be kept at 1 pop by manually resettling the +1 pop growth every month, for every breeding world. At 20 breeding worlds, that is just 240 manual resettling operations per game year!

(Unless pop growth is actually rounded down, or disabled for pop groups smaller than 100.)
 
If all pop groups will grow, this implies that there might be a floor to pop growth. For instance, if the growth rate is 1% but the pop group is smaller than 100, we might be getting +1 pop per month regardless of whether the pop group size is at 90 or at 10. This would have the implication that the fastest way to grow pops is to have 1 pop on each of many worlds, thereby growing +1 pop (+100% growth rate) per month on each of them. The worlds would need to be kept at 1 pop by manually resettling the +1 pop growth every month, for every breeding world. At 20 breeding worlds, that is just 240 manual resettling operations per game year!

(Unless pop growth is actually rounded down, or disabled for pop groups smaller than 100.)
They mentioned in one of the other dev diaries that the main pop growth on colonies will be immigration until a critical mass hits and the colony can support its own growth
 
If all pop groups will grow, this implies that there might be a floor to pop growth. For instance, if the growth rate is 1% but the pop group is smaller than 100, we might be getting +1 pop per month regardless of whether the pop group size is at 90 or at 10. This would have the implication that the fastest way to grow pops is to have 1 pop on each of many worlds, thereby growing +1 pop (+100% growth rate) per month on each of them. The worlds would need to be kept at 1 pop by manually resettling the +1 pop growth every month, for every breeding world. At 20 breeding worlds, that is just 240 manual resettling operations per game year!

(Unless pop growth is actually rounded down, or disabled for pop groups smaller than 100.)
1% of 100 pops is 1 pop.
1% of 10000 pops is 100 pops.

It should be obvious why a new colony would rely on imigration for pop growth at first. Where even is the issue?
 
Re-reading this post to try to wrap my head around it, two things jumped out at me about the UI mock-ups:

1) I'm not seeing a "Demolish" button for districts. Is un-developing districts no longer possible under the new system? This could be very bad for reconfiguring / fixing conquered AI worlds...

2) A bit bummed to see that the Build Queue has a button associated with it, and will presumably not be open by default.
 
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Re-reading this post to try to wrap my head around it, two things jumped out at me about the UI mock-ups:

1) I'm not seeing a "Demolish" button for districts. Is un-developing districts no longer possible under the new system? This could be very bad for reconfiguring / fixing conquered AI worlds...
It could easily be that upgrade just requires you to select "district development to replace" once you hit the cap.
 
It could easily be that upgrade just requires you to select "district development to replace" once you hit the cap.

There are times when you want to get rid of districts rather than replace them. Like if you take over a hive mind colony or are otherwise purging a developed world and end up with far more jobs and housing than needed. You can get rid of them to save on upkeep.
 
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There are times when you want to get rid of districts rather than replace them. Like if you take over a hive mind colony or are otherwise purging a developed world and end up with far more jobs and housing than needed. You can get rid of them to save on upkeep.
That assumes that districts still cost upkeep and that you can't abandon a planet any other way.
 
That assumes that districts still cost upkeep and that you can't abandon a planet any other way.

It’s true I’m assuming the upkeep cost stays. Abandoning the planet isn’t always what you want to do though. Like if you take a well developed hive mind world in the late game you likely still want it, but don’t want to pay for all the upkeep while your pops slowly grow.

Though 4.0 might also change this issue with the pop growth and civilian rework. New late game worlds with high development might get a flood of migrants.
 
That assumes that districts still cost upkeep and that you can't abandon a planet any other way.
Empire size is another reason I demolish rather than replacing districts on recently-conquered worlds after resettling or purging most of the pops. I'm happy to leave a machine assembly plant or spawning pool, a simulation/sensorium site, and 3-5 token pops of my own there to work them, but I definitely don't need 10+ constructed districts (of any kind) for that.
 
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Empire size is another reason I demolish rather than replacing districts on recently-conquered worlds after resettling or purging most of the pops. I'm happy to leave a machine assembly plant or spawning pool, a simulation/sensorium site, and 3-5 token pops of my own there to work them, but I definitely don't need 10+ constructed districts (of any kind) for that.
Depending on how the numbers work out, with the new system you might be able to splat those worlds as net positive self-sufficient cg/research/unity generators.
 
So what is going to be the advantage of creating duplicate zones if they don't grant more building slots? Why not make it simply a penalty if goal is some level of diversification, like second zone two building slots third zone one building slot. Not specialising further a planet into a single direction seems silly to me, the US already does that on its country state sized scale and it's part of why its productivity remains so higher than western Europe. I'd imagine a united earth to further specialise in some regions production, and a pan stellar earth to go even further
 
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