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Stellaris Dev Diary #371 - 4.0 Changes: Part 5

Hi everyone!

This week we’re looking more at the economic changes of the Stellaris 4.0 ‘Phoenix’ update, and how we’re going to update the Planet UI to work with them.

As this is all still in development, things are still subject to change, and I’m going to be using a lot of the UX Design Mockups in this dev diary. The final versions will not match these work-in-progress designs precisely. The Open Beta will definitely not be at these polish levels. Also be aware that numbers on these mockups are all placeholders meant to help the rest of the team get the layout right, so things like the Pop Counts or Production numbers aren’t accurate.

Planets - Districts - Zones - Buildings - Jobs​

As mentioned last week, one of the fundamental changes we’re making to the economy behind the scenes is that planets are now the source of production rather than the pops themselves. This is a generally subtle change from your perspective as a player, but this opened up an opportunity to revamp exactly how planets are structured, and to formalize some of the job hierarchy. A few of you have already guessed some of the things I’m going to share with you.

We’re introducing a new planetary feature: Zones. By specializing Districts, Zones function similarly to how the Forge World, Factory World, and Industrial World designations previously modified the jobs provided by Industrial Districts – only now as a more structured, intuitive, and flexible mechanic.

The 4.0 Planet Hierarchy is:
  • Planets produce and consume resources.
  • Districts provide a base number of Jobs for each level of development.
  • Zones manipulate what Jobs are provided by their District.
  • Buildings typically modify the production of Jobs themselves, though may also provide static numbers of Jobs.
  • Jobs are filled by Workforce, and make the planet produce a single resource by default (unless they have been modified).

Standard planets have a City District that contains your urban development, and remains capped by planet size as it is in 3.14. The City District has four Zones - one will always be locked to a Governmental Zone and contains your Capital Building, while the other three will be selectable. Normal planets also have Mining, Agricultural, and Energy Districts which each have one Zone, and - like 3.14 - are gated by planetary features. Industrial Districts have been removed, as their function has been replaced by Zones.

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Upgrading Districts is now clearly shown as a button on the Planet UI - this should reduce the number of “it took me X months to realize you can build districts” posts. As part of the increase in differentiation between Districts and Buildings, we’ve changed some of the terminology slightly - instead of building a dozen Districts across a planet, you will upgrade their development level. Functionally this remains the same.

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Zones are our new addition to the Planet Hierarchy. Zones let you change the nature of their District. By default, the City District will provide Housing and increase the maximum number of Civilians that your planet can support. (Based on design discussions over the past week, we’re leaning towards your Empire Capital having a bonus increasing this number significantly, which has the nice secondary effect of making the conquest of Homeworlds in the early game carry the societal challenge of suddenly creating many angry Dissidents that will be unable to promote back to Civilians as this bonus is lost.) If you build a Foundry Zone, the City District will replace some of their Civilian capacity and housing with Metallurgist jobs for each level of development. If you then build a Factory Zone, the City District will provide both Metallurgist and Artisan jobs, but with further reductions to their Citizen capacity.

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While you can build multiple Zones of the same type (in your City District, for example), the first Zone of each type built on a planet gains three slots for Buildings. (Duplicate Zones do not grant additional Building slots.) Buildings typically modify the production of their associated Job, and most are now Planet Unique. The majority of Buildings are restricted to the specific relevant Zones that they can be built in, but some can still be built anywhere. The Government Zone and Urban Zone can, however, accept most Urban buildings. The build list will be filtered appropriately.

The majority of Jobs will now have a single output by default, so Researchers are being broken apart into Physicists, Biologists, and Engineers.

Origins and Civics that previously replaced Jobs will now typically instead have a Building that modifies the associated Job. A benefit of this is that it should now be able to stack better with other similar Civics - we hope to be able to reduce restrictions so perhaps you’ll be able to sacrifice willing Pops by flinging them into a black hole for money.

The Planetary Surface​

Your homeworld is a bit of a special case in Stellaris - it’s not a brand new colony, but it’s also not very specialized. It needs to provide a little bit of everything, but could really use some cleanup after all those years of development (becoming an Early Space Age civilization is a dirty job.)

Here’s the work-in-progress UX mockup of what Earth may look like at the start of the game:

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The unspecialized mess of being an Early Space Age civilization gives us a relatively unspecialized zone that provides us with the basic resources necessary at the start of the game. We’ll eventually want to replace that Zone with a more specialized one.

As we head to the stars, we’ll naturally want to colonize our Guaranteed Habitable Worlds. The new Colonization UI will let us immediately set the desired planetary designation for our brand new colony.

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Don’t worry, you’ll be able to select something other than Factory World...

Here’s what our new colony could look like once the colonization process finishes:

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...But why did you choose Mining World for a planet with Poor Quality Minerals?

The Reassembled Ship Shelter provides Colonist jobs that will provide the Amenities and Stability previously granted by the Colony designation. As shown, the technologies required to expand on an alien world are not necessarily the same as those you need back on your home planet.

Our UX designer has created these explanations of the new UI:

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And here’s what our two planets might look like after some time has passed.

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Special Cases​

Ever since MegaCorp, paving the entire world has always been a grand ambition of Empires.

We’re currently thinking that an Ecumenopolis should act like the megacity it is. The Ecumenopolis will have multiple Urban Districts - one large main one and three more smaller Arcologies.

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Wait, this means you can make a Fortress Ecumenopolis…

Although the gameplay of upgrading a Habitat Complex by building orbitals throughout a system made Habitats more interesting, having to hunt down that last moon to place the orbital proved incredibly annoying.

For 4.0, we’re removing this pain point. Upgrading Districts on a Habitat will spawn Orbitals throughout the system as their Development Level increases. Some of the district capacity will be available immediately upon colonizing the Habitat Central Complex, with the remainder gated by upgrading the Capital Building. We’re also considering having the district capacity for Habitats more closely linked to the deposits available in the system instead of the current behavior where each mineral deposit grants a static amount of capacity.

We expect to see some unique or former districts for habitats be reimagined or return as Zones, such as the Order’s Demesne for KotTG or Sanctuary Districts for Rogue Servitors.

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Goodbye, hunting for where that last minor orbital is hiding!

Next Week​

Next week, @Gruntsatwork will go into some of the scripting details of Jobs and Pop Groups. We should also have some more information about the upcoming 4.0 livestream.

See you then!
 
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This looks a lot nicer and better than Ibwas expecting. Great job!
My only pain point is that I really wished the planet overview and population tabs were merged. I hate having to keep switching between those tabs, but maybe in the new system I won't have to?
 
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I wonder if refineries will get their own zone? only in City Districts?

Will rare resources extraction get their own zones? In normal resources Districts? With each normal resource getting a zone of one related rare resourse?
I think refineries with get their own zone consolidated into "Refinery Zone", similar to Research Zones, with buildings allowing for further specialization of the Refinery Zone.

Resource extraction might remain tied to resource districts.
 
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Hm. On the whole, I really like these changes.

But I am concerned that this will discourage specialization. If you don't want to build mining/farming/generator districts on a planet, that's half the UI now showing big "Undeveloped" labels. Not to mention that this forces you to build rural districts you don't need or want just for extra building slots.

Would it be possible to choose what districts we want on a planet? If I want to make a dedicated agri-world, I'd rather have one big farm district with three zones than have 1/3 of the screen screaming "Undeveloped! Zone available!" at me.
 
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Very interesting changes but I did not expect planet management to change so much.

The disappearance of the industrial districts and buildings not affecting jobs allocation is kinda worrying. In 3.14 the industrial districts allow to be very granular in term of proportion of jobs and to produce exactly what you need with like 20 surplus/deficit in the monthly empire revenues. The repeatable buildings also added even more to this flexibility.

If I understand 4.0 well enough, the three zones you can chose in the urban district mean that if I want to go for a forge world it will have either 0, 25, 50 or 75% of mettalurgists jobs with no choice in between or more. Because hapiness matters I suppose I would also need to dedicate one zone to entertainment which mean a forge world would be capped at 50% metallurgist rjobs unless I ignore amenities.

This sounds way less flexible than 3.14 where it is not rare to have very specialized worlds with 80 or 90% of its jobs being mettalurgist, artisan, or researchers, and the 10-20% left dedicated to a diverse array of jobs needed to optimize the planet like rulers and entertainers for amenities, cops for crime, or roboticists and medical workers for pop growth.

I hope you guys keep this in mind when reitarating on your design. Stellaris is also a stat cheets game at its core, players love to optimize their numbers or to have agency to exactly produce what they need, for gameplay or roleplay reasons. To have a harder time controlling your economy numbers because of a rigid design sucks. I hope you guys keep this in mind before launching the beta. I know sliders for each jobs could easily solve this problem but I can understand why you would be hesitant to introduce those.
 
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Okay I have no clue how this new mechanic is going to work. I will make numerous mistakes, have to suffer from the derision of other players getting a grip on the new mechanic faster than me and will suffer multiple times a D'Oh effect.
In short
LOVE IT.
4.0 is exactly what I am expecting it to be. A brand new game in which my knowledge is mostly useless.
Thank you for that amazing refreshment of my love for Stellaris
 
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I know this isn't entirely on topic, but with districts and zones now changing up, will planetary rare resources continue to be extracted from mining districts only? Or will you consider expanding upon it so that Gases and/or motes might be extracted from food and mining districts, and crystals from mining and energy districts, or maybe even any from any? Possibly by adding the appropriate building to the correct district zone? Since planets being super specialized is now penalized, I feel it would be a great time to change the rare resource extraction to come from multiple types of base resource districts to prevent a division of interest between specialization and penalization for specializing.
 
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Here's an idea for Zones, Diplomatic/Domed Zones. These are more expensive versions of the pre-existing zones but when built you select the habitability classification of the zone allowing species to live in the zone even if the planet's habitability is bad. They'd be more expensive based on how far the habitability is from the planet's type and by any habitability modifiers of the planet. More advances in the technology could make it possible to make very expensive colonies on currently non-habitable planets.

This way you could have Expanse-like Mars colonies without terraforming mars.
 
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Very interesting changes but I did not expect planet management to change so much.

The disappearance of the industrial districts and buildings not affecting jobs allocation is kinda worrying. In 3.14 the industrial districts allow to be very granular in term of proportion of jobs and to produce exactly what you need with like 20 surplus/deficit in the monthly empire revenues. The repeatable buildings also added even more to this flexibility.

If I understand 4.0 well enough, the three zones you can chose in the urban district mean that if I want to go for a forge world it will have either 0, 25, 50 or 75% of mettalurgists jobs with no choice in between or more. Because hapiness matters I suppose I would also need to dedicate one zone to entertainment which mean a forge world would be capped at 50% metallurgist rjobs unless I ignore amenities.

This sounds way less flexible than 3.14 where it is not rare to have very specialized worlds with 80 or 90% of its jobs being mettalurgist, artisan, or researchers, and the 10-20% left dedicated to a diverse array of jobs needed to optimize the planet like rulers and entertainers for amenities, cops for crime, or roboticists and medical workers for pop growth.

I hope you guys keep this in mind when reitarating on your design. Stellaris is also a stat cheets game at its core, players love to optimize their numbers or to have agency to exactly produce what they need, for gameplay or roleplay reasons. To have a harder time controlling your economy numbers because of a rigid design sucks. I hope you guys keep this in mind before launching the beta. I know sliders for each jobs could easily solve this problem but I can understand why you would be hesitant to introduce those.
This is a very good point. With each City District Development Level potentially producing a whole host of different resources/jobs in addition to housing, how are we going to balance all of that? Upgrade your City District because you need more housing, but suddenly that makes your metallurgists consume more minerals than you produce?
 
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we hope to be able to reduce restrictions so perhaps you’ll be able to sacrifice willing Pops by flinging them into a black hole for money.

Corporate Death Cult with Prosperity Gospel and Astral Enterprise, for priests that make unity, amenities, trade, society, and physics all at the same time?



I know this is somewhat tangential, but civics that modify the same job (especially administrators) currently have a problem, and this change might make it worse: those civics have so much synergy together that they have to be too weak on their own.

It's especially true of alternate yields: if your e.g. priests make physics research, you can take some of your researchers and make them into priests without your research suffering. That moves more pops into the more productive job, which increases the benefits you get from the civic. Then you take a civic which adds society research (and extra unity while edicts run) to them. Now you can move even more researchers over, which increases the yields you get from the first civic. Then you add trade and you can take all the trader pops, which makes even more research, which lets you move over even more formerly-researcher pops...

To oversimplify, if you normally have 10 pops working in each of job A, B, C, and D:
  • If civic 1 makes A produce 1/3 of B's yields, you can move 5 pops from B to A. The civic is now giving 1/3*15=5 instead of its nominal 1/3*10=3.3, and the net effect is 1.5x A's yield (+5 jobs)
  • If civic 2 makes A produce 1/3 of C's yields, you can move all of B's and C's pops into A. The two civics both now give 30*1/3=10 (triple their nominal value on their own), and the net effect is 3x A's yield.
  • Add civic 3. Move over D's pops (40 total working A), and now you have 4x A's yield, and also 1.33x B, C, and D's yields.
  • Taking two together makes them both 3x as powerful as their nominal effect on their own, and taking all three makes them 5x as powerful as their nominal effect.
On the one hand: a total transformation like that is novel and fun. But you can't make the individual civics any stronger without the combined scenario going bananas.

If they somehow had less synergy, you could make the individual civics much stronger (for more of that total-transformation novelty without taking all three) without being insane when combined.

Ex. If (in the exaggerated toy example) the civics all gave 2/3 of another job's yield (double their previous effect), but also reduced A's output by 11.1% (multiplicatively with other category modifiers, like how e.g. the Duelist councilor works), you end up with each civic on their own adding +9.5 (as opposed to +5 previously). But when you combine all three, you get +32 (as opposed to +40 before). Together, they're still stronger than they were alone (and the pop distribution impact is just as sweeping), but the difference between the two scenarios is no longer so extreme.



tl;dr: Synergy is fun, but it constrains how good civics can be on their own. Adding a bit of intentional anti-synergy to constrain combined effect lets you make individual civics stronger without making the synergy any stronger.
 
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Well that's exciting! I LOVE the idea of zones containing buildings! I think having one "city district" that governs alloys, cgs, research, and unity, trade, and amenities is deeply imbalanced with three raw material specific rural district types. There's enormous room to reflect the planet or even the terrain at that point on the planet. Imagine if a continental world, instead of urban/mining/farming/generator districts, had varying amounts of ocean shelf, continental plains, highlands, and alluvial terrain all that could be balanced towards raw extraction or built up urban spaces through zones! As the planet class changes the available terrain types might shift: to continue my example and ocean world might trade the highlands for abyssal mountains.

Alternatively I'd love it if each planet has a handful of options for its district slots that allow more specialized industries beyond "urban" or "basic resources". If a planet has the asteroid impacts modifier I'd love to see a special asteroid mining and impact mitigation district. If it's tidally locked there should be special daytime farming and solar generation districts that perhaps add research at the cost of happiness. Low gravity worlds should have special ultra vertical urban districts, abundant geothermal worlds should have special geothermal districts that make some mix of eng research, energy, and minerals.

Here's why SOMETHING different should be done: if I'm specializing my planet, I'm likely leaning into ONE of the four districts leaving the other three - and the majority of the interface - useless and ignored. Additionally, basic resources are only the beginning of the economy. Every Stellaris win condition depends on advanced resources produced in urban districts: alloys and research. We can expect the majority of planets to be focused on that, especially as there's megastructures for two of the three basic resources AND specialized vassals if you own Overlord. One could conceivably have all their planets fully covered with only urban districts specialized with various zones. I know we're going to have some pressure to locally produce some or all of our raw materials, but the systems still look like they heavily incentivize full urbanization or no urbanization on a planet.

Having special districts for unity, research, and alloys/CG or ways to get those from rural districts would ensure there was some reason to not just pile everything into one unchanging district type. This is part of why I led with suggesting the four districts more reflect the terrain or locally available resources, so that no matter what I was still at least influenced by the planet type and deposits/modifiers.

What's REALLY grabbed my attention is the orbital building mechanic on habitats. Is there any reason that couldn't be attached to regular planets or regular districts? What is a mining station in Sol on game start but a small, primitive version of a minor orbital? I've always felt Stellaris has *sorely* lacked a proper orbital habitation and industry layer to planets, and I immediately thought it would be incredible to be able to spawn stations or ambient objects upon queuing certain districts.
 
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Hm. On the whole, I really like these changes.

But I am concerned that this will discourage specialization. If you don't want to build mining/farming/generator districts on a planet, that's half the UI now showing big "Undeveloped" labels. Not to mention that this forces you to build rural districts you don't need or want just for extra building slots.

Would it be possible to choose what districts we want on a planet? If I want to make a dedicated agri-world, I'd rather have one big farm district with three zones than have 1/3 of the screen screaming "Undeveloped! Zone available!" at me.

As I understood it specialization will not be hurt. If you build only agrarian districts and no mining districts or generator because for some reason your planet allows it, you will not be penalized as building will now scale with districts. If a building adds 1 farmer / farming district, having 20 of them will make the building twice as powerful as with 10. You won't gain additional buildings but I prefer it like that. If that was the case specialization would be the only way to play as it would be so much better than the rest. In stellaris you are incentivised to specialize anyway thanks to the modifiers a planet can have like unique features and if you like micromanagement, you can create a subspecie planet wide to optimize the yield.
Yes the UI will have 2 empty slots but that can almost be a good thing : You will see at a glance that this is your farm world.
 
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If the UX is still very placeholdery then I don't feel bad giving unsolicited feedback:
As part of the increase in differentiation between Districts and Buildings, we’ve changed some of the terminology slightly - instead of building a dozen Districts across a planet, you will upgrade their development level. Functionally this remains the same.
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I hate this. Having a planetary spanning single "Energy District" feels awful (e: so awful I accidentally hit post while still typing). I'd really, really prefer if they were still referred to in the plural. This shouldn't impact the Zone flavour as "I have decided all cities will have a section zone for science" makes at least as much sense as building a single science zone that scales with city size.

E: again the functionality described I like a lot but I hate the flavour of a single farm covering 1/4 of the planet so much. Please add the s and change upgrade to "expand' or something. And that's not even getting into the idea of a space age society having to, if I'm reading right, progress up to and through fossil fuels and only if the planet is big enough. Actually I think the flavour text is based on zoning so ignore that last bit

This is entirely a UI/Flavour complaint but it's a really big one. I really, really will not enjoy picturing planets like that.

e2: I have nicer things to type later!
 
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Hm. On the whole, I really like these changes.

But I am concerned that this will discourage specialization. If you don't want to build mining/farming/generator districts on a planet, that's half the UI now showing big "Undeveloped" labels. Not to mention that this forces you to build rural districts you don't need or want just for extra building slots.

Would it be possible to choose what districts we want on a planet? If I want to make a dedicated agri-world, I'd rather have one big farm district with three zones than have 1/3 of the screen screaming "Undeveloped! Zone available!" at me.

The new trade system discourages over-specialization of planets as well. We'll have to see how the final numbers work out, but generally it seems like you're going to want most planets to provide their own necessities, with exceptions for ecumenopolises and so on.
 
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The majority of Jobs will now have a single output by default, so Researchers are being broken apart into Physicists, Biologists, and Engineers.
What is the point of splitting researchers? You're pretty much always going to want roughly the same amount of all three types, so making them into separate jobs is a bit of a false choice
 
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Zones as described specifically modify what is provided by each development point of their District, they don't do anything on their own.
Zones themselves can be related to districts. You don't need them beeing graphically near related districts.

Like Mining zone will affect only Mining distructs.

Thus districts and zones can be in separated parts on the UI. It will make things much more flexible, like no need for fixed district slots.
 
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As I understood it specialization will not be hurt. If you build only agrarian districts and no mining districts or generator because for some reason your planet allows it, you will not be penalized as building will now scale with districts. If a building adds 1 farmer / farming district, having 20 of them will make the building twice as powerful as with 10. You won't gain additional buildings but I prefer it like that. If that was the case specialization would be the only way to play as it would be so much better than the rest. In stellaris you are incentivised to specialize anyway thanks to the modifiers a planet can have like unique features and if you like micromanagement, you can create a subspecie planet wide to optimize the yield.
Yes the UI will have 2 empty slots but that can almost be a good thing : You will see at a glance that this is your farm world.
It's not a gameplay concern, it's a UX concern. Like the leader display back when Galactic Paragons released, which made it feel annoying to not have enough leader cap to fill every slot. It would feel bad.

The new trade system discourages over-specialization of planets as well. We'll have to see how the final numbers work out, but generally it seems like you're going to want most planets to provide their own necessities, with exceptions for ecumenopolises and so on.
I like that change from a gameplay perspective, but that doesn't mean I don't still want to be able to make hyperspecialized worlds without having the UI try to convince me to built districts I don't want every time I look at the planet.
 
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The name 'Civilian' is honestly a bit confusing and doesn't really communicate well what they are and their purpose. It also is confusing with the whole 'citizen' species as opposed to resident species distinction.

Could you maybe rename them? Possibly 'Dependents' instead to express how these are people kind of reliant on government support and low-paying jobs.

Alternatives include just 'laborers' or 'masses'. Anyway, I just think Civilian is very confusing as a term.
 
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