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Stellaris Dev Diary #380 - Defenders in the Stars

Hi, it’s Alfray once again and I’d like to introduce you to our latest megastructure, the Deep Space Citadel. This three stage mid-game megastructure is a powerful defensive bastion and converts into a starbase upon completion, much like an orbital ring.

Multi-stage defenses

The three stages of the Deep Space Citadel

Unlike orbital rings and regular starbases, Deep Space Citadels can be placed far more freely within a system, provided they aren’t too close to a gravity well (or each other).

The Deep Space Citadel technology is a Tier 3 Military Theory technology which unlocks all three stages of the megastructure and an initial limit of one per system.

Technology!



This system limit can be further increased by the Mega-Engineering, the Starlit Citadel origin and the Eternal Vigilance ascension perks.

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Choosing to build a DSC opens another menu allowing you to select the design.


Once a DSC design has been selected, you’ll be able to choose where in the system it can be placed, provided it’s within the system’s main gravity well. This allows you to choose if you want to defend a choke point or a critical planet.


Nope, that's too close

No, build an Arc Furnace on the molten world, not the DSC!

We will defend our home!

Defending the Sol-Alpha Centauri hyperlane breach point sounds like a good idea.

As the Deep Space Citadel is upgraded from one stage to the next, it gains successively more L-slot turrets, hangar bays and defensive utilities. The final stage of the DSC also gains access to both a single XL-slot turret and an aura slot capable of equipping auras from both titans and juggernauts. Additionally, to compensate for the lack of module slots on the DSC, it has a special module slot in the ship designer capable of equipping most starbase auras and a few unique DSC auras.

Shoot me!

Think of it as a giant “SHOOT ME!” sign.


Custom components

Defensive countermeasures tailored to your enemy

DSC I Design


DSC I Details


DSC II Design


DSC II Details


DSC III Design



DSC III Details


As shown, each stage on the Deep Space Citadel is individually designable and saved as its own ship design. When building, upgrading or downgrading a Deep Space Citadel, you’ll be prompted to select the design the DSC should become.

The Art of the Deep Space Citadel

Hi! I'm Lloyd and I'm a concept artist on Biogenesis. I'm here to give you a look at how I designed the look of the deep space citadel and how the art team brought it to life.

I was very excited to tackle this station. After working on bioships for a while, it was refreshing to have a chance to get back into some hard-surface design. I began by discussing with the team what we wanted the station to feel like, and what it should represent to our players. I came away with a simple mission - make Helm’s Deep in space. Here are my first sketches of the station. You can see I'm focusing a lot on fortress-like structures as well as shield shapes. Both of these are to enforce the idea that this station is a defensive bastion, a place of safety, protection, and strength.

Concept art. Credit: Lloyd Drake-Brockman

Initial sketches of the deep space citadel. Artist: Lloyd Drake-Brockman


We decided to go with something like option B. This design became more refined as I worked on it, and as it was fleshed out into a three-stage structure. Here you can see an early look at the 3D blockout for the concept art.

Early 3D Concept. Credit: Lloyd Drake-Brockman

Early stages of the 3D concept. Artist: Lloyd Drake-Brockman

Here, I had the idea to bring the shield motif back in the later stages, surrounding the station with shield-like arms that start as round shields in stage 2, but expand to be tower shields in stage 3.

With the design locked in, I polished up the details into the final concept sheets. These sheets inform the rest of the art team how to make the asset. Our philosophy is that a concept should solve as many problems as possible, instead of leaving them for the 3D, texturing, and animation stages.

Stage 1 final concept. Credit: Lloyd Drake-Brockman

Stage 1 final concept art. Artist: Lloyd Drake-Brockman
Stage 2 final concept. Credit: Lloyd Drake-Brockman

Stage 2 final concept art. Artist: Lloyd Drake-Brockman

Stage 3 final concept. Credit: Lloyd Drake-Brockman

Stage 3 final concept art. Artist: Lloyd Drake-Brockman

Turrets final concept. Credit: Lloyd Drake-Brockman

Turrets final concept art. Artist: Lloyd Drake-Brockman

You can also see the added details of the internal gravity torus, which would allow inhabitants to live comfortably even with a failure of artificial gravity systems, a massive reactor for power, and complex shielding systems. All of this is added to paint the picture of a steadfast, independent station, able to withstand punishing sieges.

With the concepts done, the task moves on to the 3D team who model and texture the station.

WIP model. Credit: Emma Quer

Work in progress on the 3D model of the Deep Space Citadel. Artist: Emma Quer

The last stage of the DSC is animation. Some of the parts of the station were designed to move, and it's always so exciting for me to see an asset come to life in the game.


Animated DSC Stage 1. Credit: Mia Svensson
Animated DSC Stage 2. Credit: Mia Svensson
Animated DSC Stage 3. Credit: Mia Svensson

Animation of the Deep Space Citadel Artist: Mia Svensson


That's it! That's how we brought the Deep Space Citadel to life for Biogenesis. Personally I thought this was one of the most fun assets to work on, and I hope you enjoy what we’ve made. We really poured our hearts into it!


New Origin: STARLIT CITADEL

Some empires are born into prosperity. Others arise under siege.

CGInglis here, reporting from far beyond the walls to bring you a closer look at the Starlit Citadel Origin, our latest offering for those who prefer their games with a little bit of defiance and a whole lot of fortification!

How many secrets are in this image?

Nothing says 'welcome to the neighborhood' like a massive orbital fortress.

Long before their species turned its eyes to the stars, a mysterious wormhole lingered on the edge of their home system. From its depths came wave upon wave of aggressors in biological ships. Entire cities were flattened before the invaders were defeated. Then they returned. Again, and again.

Faced with extinction, these beleaguered people placed their hope in the Deep Space Citadel, a towering bulwark bristling with defensive armaments, constructed not at the heart of their system, but precisely where the invaders emerge.

Please do not resist, you are being defended

Hi there! I’ll be your turret-encrusted server today. May I recommend the Mass Driver, served with a large side of Point-Defense Flak?

Empires with this Origin begin the game with a fully operational Stage I Deep Space Citadel positioned at the breach. Their homeworld also features a unique building, the Citadel Uplink, which coordinates the empire’s defensive efforts.

This Building supports a rare specialist role, the Skywatchers. Linked to the Citadel through advanced communication arrays and strategic uplinks, the Skywatchers provide a potent array of bonuses: increased planetary stability, bonus naval capacity across the empire, and spawning additional defense armies. Perhaps most significantly, their efforts amplify the effectiveness of all Deep Space Citadels, starbases, and defensive stations within the system.

Skywatcher-1 to DSC Uplink, do you copy?

All-seeing, ever-watchful, mildly overworked.
Your homeworld, though (probably) rich in history, bears the scars of conflict. Marring the surface are the blasted remains of the last wave of invading bioships:

DO NOT EAT

“And I thought they smelled bad on the outside!”
This Origin also introduces a unique dynamic for multiplayer campaigns. If several players choose to be a Starlit Citadel empire, each will begin with their own perilous portal and their own Deep Space Citadel. As the campaign unfolds, these enigmatic wormholes are revealed to be more than isolated anomalies. Like spokes on a terrible wheel, they all lead to a single, central hub:

Wormholes, they're perfectly safe!

Who are these guys, and why are they so deeply unchill?

The Starlit Citadel Origin invites players not only to withstand these threats, but also to uncover their source. Whichever empire reaches the hub system first will face the full force of the invaders. If you prevail, you’ll have the chance to fortify this keystone system and reshape the balance of power.

Choose this origin if you enjoy a playstyle centered on defense, a narrative-driven mystery, and just a hint of betrayal among friends!

Next Week

Next week @PDS_Iggy will be introducing us to the Fallen Hive Mind Empire, the Fallen Hive Mind Empire, the Fallen Hive Mind Empire, and the Wilderness origin.
 
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Are we not concerned that we will end up in a place where certain empires are unasailable?


The balance of power has always been in the attackers favor; it you are the attacker, and you can't break through, you probably just need a few more ships (or to have picked your battles better in the first place). Defenders usually have to play whack-a-starbase with their own starbases once their fleet has returned from killing a leviathan, or rebuilding, upgrading, whatever. It feels like losing a decade for the purpose of losing a decade.

On the flipside, right now you can end up in a place where the AI will see you have pathetic fleets, declare war, then never advance because they, after declaring war, realize they will never make it through your starbase defensive line.

I'm very concerned that if these structures are more offensive for the defender, they fail to both buy time for reinforcements to arrive, and can be left alone in stacks of two or three to repel an attacker entirely while the defender rolls their eyes and leisurely reclaims the lost system at their own pace.

I have further concerns, but nobody asked for a novel.
 
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Are we not concerned that we will end up in a place where certain empires are unasailable?


The balance of power has always been in the attackers favor; it you are the attacker, and you can't break through, you probably just need a few more ships (or to have picked your battles better in the first place). Defenders usually have to play whack-a-starbase with their own starbases once their fleet has returned from killing a leviathan, or rebuilding, upgrading, whatever. It feels like losing a decade for the purpose of losing a decade.

On the flipside, right now you can end up in a place where the AI will see you have pathetic fleets, declare war, then never advance because they, after declaring war, realize they will never make it through your starbase defensive line.

I'm very concerned that if these structures are more offensive for the defender, they fail to both buy time for reinforcements to arrive, and can be left alone in stacks of two or three to repel an attacker entirely while the defender rolls their eyes and leisurely reclaims the lost system at their own pace.

I have further concerns, but nobody asked for a novel.
worst case you can always use jump drives and quantum catapults to harass softer targets
it won't be any worse than trying to take over your neighboring empire in the early game only to then run away with your tail between your legs the moment you see Hrozgar
or you get used to always having at least one mercenary enclave and then hire their fleet to massively increase your doomstack

it may be an issue in multiplayer, but AI is extremely unlikely to find the right build, set up and economy to not only build the maginot line but also maintain it

and hey, in the absolute worst case you have two players who maintain a cold war across their shared border with neither side ever picking a fight - which is already what happens when neither side falls behind in the arms race
 
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Defense platforms have the cost of me having to manually rebuild all my defense platforms after a fight and that's far, far more than I am willing to pay. Going to grab Unyeilding in every playthrough now but I would prefer if they weren't locking a basic UI element behind an entire tradition.
I remember when people asked for science ship automation to help out in the early game... and then they locked it behind a mid-game tech where it was no longer nearly as useful, before finally letting people automate them from the start in a recent-ish update. They love making people suffer for QoL.
 
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This is like, a lot of things I put on my 'wishlist' when yall asked for input about reworking combat, and the base idea is something from a mod I've enjoyed (but didn't expect to be vanilla-ized like this).

My only question is, since DSCs are designable, will regular starbases be designable now, too?
 
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I may be in the minority when I say this but while I do like the idea of pairing Sovereign Guardianship with the new Citadel Megastructure, I am reminded of the incompatibility that the Militarist Ethic has with a Civic that prioritizes having as little territory as possible. Militarist Faction, aka Imperialist and/or Supremacist, prioritizes having lots of rivals, subjects and expanding their territory via conquest. Given that Sovereign Guardianship penalizes you for going over 100 Empire Size(which is what will happen with a large, ever-expanding Empire to fulfill the wishes of the Imperialist faction) means that Sovereign Guardianship should be divorced, or better yet, paired with **Pacifist** Ethic instead.

Why Pacifist Ethic? Well, for starters, Pacifist Ethic is the polar opposite of Militarist and having the Pacifist Ethic does not mean you cannot fight. It just means that you want the opposing Empire(s) to make the first move. It also would permit players to be Inward Perfectionists with Sovereign Guardianship, hence being Isolationist and fiercely defending what territory you happen to have. I do understand why they chose Militarist Ethic for Sovereign Guardianship though because it would be too easy to have -100% Empire Size from Pops(-80% with Fanatic Pacifist right from the start... and could even get -100% Empire Size from Districts with Synthetic Ascension via Virtual Oligarchic).

However, the biggest reason to push for Pacifist lies in AI Weights. Eternal Vigilance Ascension Perk has a Xenophobe weight and an Inward Perfectionist weight attached to it. What ethics are required for Inward Perfectionist Civic? Xenophobe and **PACIFIST**. So, the Ascension Perk that benefits Deep Space Citadels just so happens to be a Pacifist Ascension Perk, not a Militarist one. Without looking at Tradition AI weights, I'm pretty sure Xenophobe and/or Pacifist prioritize Unyielding Tradition at some point, which again benefits Deep Space Citadels.

Meaning if you want the AI to play this new origin with Sovereign Guardianship well, you might want to look into changing the Ethic requirement on SG civic.
 
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The model looks amazing! Can we see it in another graphical culture?
In the stream Eladrin said it should correspond to your shipset but I couldn't see the difference anywhere.
 
...and with a small limit per system, while also being stationary.
A citadel has a default platform cap of 15. (15 battleships = 120 naval cap). Add to that Unyelding tradition tree, Eternal vigilance AP and maybe a Strategic command center, and suddenly you can park over 50 defense platforms per starbase (50 battleships = 400 naval cap). Since one ion cannon takes 8 def platform cap, lets say you use 26 defense platforms with 3 ion cannons for a nice, round 50 platform cap. That is 3 titan lances, along with... lets say 42 hangar bays/L slots/ and 40 pd slots. You can obliterate most things before they even start getting close to your starbase.

Now, let's add an orbital ring to this equation. Their platform cap is a bit lower, but still gets affected by all the platform cap modifiers, so you end 1 ion cannon less than the central starbase... In systems with 3 planets, they take out a 1M fleet power doom stack in seconds, suffering a loss of a single defense platform if the attacker got lucky.

Also fyi you don't need a starbase to build defense platforms, outposts can do them too. No doomstack can continousuly push through static ranged weapon installations on this cale. Yeah, the micro is insane, but that is allegedly changing for the better soon™.

The most defense platform cap I got on an Iron man run was over 90, because I had 4 Strategic Coordination Centers (1 was mine, 1 was ruined in the galaxy, 2 were captured from AI empires). The fleet power of a single starbase was around 700k iirc.

Defense platforms are just fine :)

Now getting the FE defense platform design when taking Cosmogenesis AP... that would be ever so neat-o :D
 
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think about this--3500 alloy for this 80K hull point powerful mega-structure, 1600 alloy for a battle ship, that make sense. But WHY my battle cursor need more than 4K alloy to build? would you pls cut down its cost? And i have an idea about trade, we can have security deposit for monthly purchased resourses. e.g. I want to buy 42 mineral per month, that means I need at most 42 x 5 x 1.3(or 1.2 or 1.1 depend on Intermediary fees) = 273 trade to keep my deal. So if i have less than 273 trade, these value will not convert into other resourses; else, e.g. i have 280 trade, i will keep 273 for my deal and 7 to convert depend on my policy. (what do you think about it?)
 
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What are the requirements for the origin?

Not that i am expecting it to be available to gestalts, even if machine age gave me hope that we can avoid having new origins be normal empire locked if possible. Still, we can at least play as normal machines with the origin. Right...?

I realize it is one of the drawbacks to emphasizing narrative "tight" origins, the open ended empire designs means a trade off between narrative details and the ability for the players to tell their own narratives.
 
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"starbase" design...

can we finely retool our normal starbases manually?
It's in the pipeline, allegedly. No ETA as of yet. Maby they surprise us with that in the 4.0 update, but I woudn't expect it :)

I imagine it will come with a fleet management/combat rework, or as a small update sometime soon™
 
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That's what I meant by it being a winsmore. Are you winning? Build this and win more.

I can't tell if you're saying that enforced per-system fleet combat widths are an obviously silly idea and as such you think there should be no enforced per-system limit on the stations, or if you are actually arguing for enforced per-system fleet combat widths.

In either case I want the exact opposite to them having more placement freedom. I want a a per-system and a per-empire limit and then they can make them super wicked awesome without turning building manual-placement-only space structure everywhere into a mandatory part of the game. Again.

e: Or make it like the starbase cap where you can build X + (systems you own/Y) and going over results in ramping costs. Or have them east starbase cap and have the tech give you a bit more starbase cap. I'm easy.

Well, we’ve had this discussion so often I’ve lost count. But here it’s clear: the devs do know it’s better to limit something in order to create meaningful gameplay decisions and sensible game balance. Yet when it comes to fleets and doomstacking, suddenly there are no solutions to that problem.

I’m not saying we need a silly arbitrary “Only one allowed” rule like we seem to be getting with the new citadels — but some sort of system needs to be built to finally bring those aspects in: weighing player decisions and enabling sensible game balance to solve Stellaris’ biggest current flaw, doomstacks. It’s so big that if you encounter one that’s unbeatable, it’s game over — and if you have one that’s unbeatable, it’s also game over.

It feels like a parody that semi-useful static defenses have a hard building limit per system, while fleets are fair game.

More and more, it feels like the design goals and decisions are becoming increasingly careless, erratic and detached from the game’s true core mechanics. And it concerns me, it makes me mad and sad.
 
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The station is awesome, don't get me wrong, but I was kind of hoping that we will finally have some limited defence agains jump drives. E.g. Station module that provides gravity well if enemy fleet is jumping to nearby systems, it will redirect them to system with nearest citadel. Do you plan something like that in the future?
 
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Station module that provides gravity well if enemy fleet is jumping to nearby systems, it will redirect them to system with nearest citadel.
Without the ability to bypass border defences, why would you spend alloys and reactor power on Jump Drive in the first place? Relays or gateways are a much better solution to internal logistics.