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Stellaris Dev Diary #386 - Updates and a Wilderness Beta

Hi everyone!

It’s been a little while since our last dev diary - this one’s also going to be a bit short since we’ve been focusing on stabilizing 4.0 as much as we can.

The 4.0.17 and 18 updates we released yesterday is a pretty massive one with some impactful fixes. I'm pleased with the amount of things we got into it.

Here are the release notes:

Improvement​

  • The Hive Fallen Empire ships are now available for Biological Ship Empires if you progress down the Cosmogenesis Crisis Path.
  • Changes to ecumenopoleis, ring-, nanite-, hive-, and machine worlds:
    • District specialisations now visually swap to the appropriate art and district names for easier differentiation.
    • Secondary districts now have double the jobs of the primary districts.
  • Reverted the most recent changes to fallen empire building limitations. We'll be looking at a better solution for a future patch.
    • 4.0.18: Reverted all fallen empire building limitations from 4.0
  • Further Improved the Behemoth Fury endings
  • Added the Voidspawn Myocardius relic awarded to whomever manages to take down the Elder Voidspawn
  • Starbase Capacity tooltip now shows the number of owned systems contributing to Starbase Capacity.
  • Habitation districts on knight's habitats now swap to the Order's Demesne.
  • The host now gets a tooltip in Multiplayer on the Start Game button with a list of players that are holding up the game

Balance​

  • Wilderness Empires no longer have to consolidate 2500 biomass on a planet to build a Grand Archive
  • Secondary districts on hive worlds and machine worlds should now support targeted research specialisations
  • Wilderness empires now start with a Heartgrove specialisation instead of a Threadway specialisation
  • The event A Complete Collection will now only take one pop, avoiding depopulating entire planets.
  • AI empires will be more likely to declare a Cosmogenesis empire a crisis as they develop more Infinity Theses
  • The Synaptic Lathe will now ask for a refill if it drops below 50 pops instead of letting itself drop all the way to 0.
    • The Lathe had a "stable state" hack that stopped the purge below 40(00) pops to prevent it from decolonizing before - this has been removed as it should no longer be necessary. Burn those pops if you want science.
  • The Control Fragment now waits 2 decades before getting upset about your borders. Expand away!
  • Fallen Empire biological ships now equip the reactors of one size category larger, this also applies to Cosmogenesis biological ships.
  • Resource Consolidation origin needs to have the ability to make more machine (or nanite) worlds to unlock the full potential of their machine world (this includes the doubled jobs in the above patch note)
  • Updated weights for techs that unlock rural district specializations
  • Doubled the resettlement attractiveness of the Trium Atmospheric Deodorizer(tm).

Bugfix​

  • Fixed Wilderness issues
    • It should no longer implode randomly.
    • Balanced effects for Innate Design with Wilderness.
    • Turned Wilderness enforcers into Immunosymbionts to differentiate them from soldier Tamersymbionts.
    • The Wilderness Subterranean Cache building can now be placed in urban and trade district specializations
  • Fixed Synaptic Lathe issues
    • The Synaptic Lathe now correctly purges pops and produces science. (Special thanks to /u/Little_Elia for investigating. We fixed some of it differently than you did, but your post helped in identifying the issues.)
    • Pops will correctly process in or out of Neural Chip state if they are moved to or from the Lathe. (They will not be visible in the Neural Chip job until the monthly tick passes.)
    • The Synaptic Lathe purge should once again benefit from things that modify purge speed.
    • The Synaptic Lathe will now ask for a refill if it drops below 50 pops instead of letting itself drop all the way to 0. (The Lathe had a "stable state" hack that stopped the purge below 40 pops to prevent it from decolonizing before - this has been removed as it should no longer be necessary. Burn those pops if you want science.)
    • Fixed how Synaptic Lathe is being displayed in the sector view.
  • Fixed non-slaves being assigned to jobs before slaves.
  • Fixed recent issues introduced to the Synthetic Fertility origin by removing the invisible purge that was being applied (result in no factions being formed and no leaders being recruitable)
  • Virtuality Civilians are now also properly deleted if they do exist somehow. Non-Virtual Civilians can still exist for Virtual Empires.
  • You may no longer scrap 50% of your virtual pops for alloys.
  • Fixed issues where free traders could start with too many buildings
  • Fixed issues with fallen empires spawned by the Scion origin having incorrect buildings and districts
  • The composer of strands should no longer devolve thousands of pops. 400 is plenty.
  • The Pioneer Politics Agenda now has an appropriate icon.
  • Enabled the Heartgrove district specialisation for Wilderness empires
  • Treasure Curators now have an actual building icon as their workplace instead of a deposit icon.
  • Fixed a rare scenario where Driven Assimilators couldn't assimilate.
  • Prevent marking some jobs (criminals, civilians, unemployed) as favorite that should never be prioritized.
  • Space Fauna ship size selector will correctly display ship model preview.
  • Space Fauna designer will show the progress bar when creating a new design.
  • Purging a Gestalt Pop Group will no longer instantly kill all of them. Extract resources to your hearts content!
  • Conquered Starbases will no longer have text appear on the "Return Starbase" button
  • When checking if ship designs are identical, we now ignore the order of components within a section.
  • Fixed saving a Deep Space Citadel design creating duplicate designs and instantly changing the design of your DSCs.
  • Update Districts display if their swapped appearance changes
  • Processing and Forced Labor Purge should now correctly give resources when purging lithoids or machines
  • Habitats now get their districts even when not colonized yet
  • Added tooltips to the Behemoth mutation option icons
  • Reset Starting System when changing Origins when needed during the Empire Creation
  • Mechromancy Empires purging organics once again generate cyborg zombies.
  • Blocked Fallen Empire resource extraction buildings from the 6 government building slots
  • Blocked the Surface Quarry building on ringworlds and habitats
  • Nanotech Research buildings now give regular research jobs, but swap engineers to nanotech researchers
  • Researchers for machine intelligences now use more appropriate icons
  • Updated the effect tooltips for the Trium Atmospheric Deodorizer(tm) and Cyberdome.
  • Empires with Genesis Guides civics now start with a food stockpile and some food income.

UI​

  • The "Save As New Design" popup now updates the Save button immediately when you edit the name.
  • Fixed ship designer not updating the design name when you change it to the currently saved name.
  • Improve Buildings tooltips modifiers handling
  • Colony naming will now more often use custom names for the default value (colonizing Mars will propose Mars as the default colony name)
  • Fixed some planetary modifier icons that were low resolution
  • Fixed some modifiers not appearing in the empire size tooltip.

Performance​

  • Reduced mil power recalculations done by outliner fleet entry
  • Reduced habitability recalculations done by pop growth/decline
  • Reduced amount of times planet view tries to update pop group clothing

Stability​

  • Fixed crash in accepting peace due to deal containing transfer of non existing starbase
  • Fixed cross OS issue with randomized ethics in pop assembly leading to NUM_POP_GROUPS OOS (this is a big one)
  • Fixed mismatch in synchronized/unsynchronized nemesis handling in the voidworms AI that might lead to OOS when becoming a crisis.
  • Six more Out of Sync fixes

Modding​

  • Adds swap_type and swap_type_weight for districts to District Specializations.
  • District Specializations now belong to sets, and Zone Slots can now include or exclude entire zone sets
  • Migrated zone slots:zone relationships to zone_sets in place of using inline scripts
  • Added can_change_category to pop categories.
  • Changed various effects using pop amount/size to allow 0
  • Added ship_uses_corvette_reactors and ship_uses_destroyer_reactors scripted triggers
  • Added planet_is_habitat_equivalent, planet_is_ecu_equivalent, and planet_is_ring_world_equivalent scripted triggers which are used to determine the job numbers for district specialisations instead of checking the planet classes directly.
  • Updated scripted triggers for districts
  • Updated scripted triggers for zones
  • Updated inline scripts for some research district weights
  • Updated events for zone assignment upon a planet becoming a hive, machine or nanite world
  • Removed unneeded script for ecus transformations since industrial districts no longer exist

This update has a significant number of major changes, including district swaps for special planets like Ecumenopoleis and Ring Worlds, more fixes to Wilderness, the Synaptic Lathe, slavery, and the most common Out of Sync errors (including the cross-platform OOS that has been plaguing us).

We ended up reverting the changes that were made to Fallen Empire buildings - while we believe that they’re too easily acquired and plentiful, we’re going to take things slower and revisit them sometime in the future. (FE resource extraction buildings are being restricted to appropriate districts though.)

Modders should find the new zone_sets useful. It cleans up a lot of the work we were previously doing with inline scripts.
Instead of individually listing every District Specialization that is allowed or excluded using inline scripts, you can now assign one or more zone_sets to them.

Code:
zone_industrial = {
[...]
    zone_sets = {
        urban
        habitat_urban
        nexus
        hive
        ring_world
    }
[...]
}

You can then reference these in the zone_slots:
Code:
slot_city_01 = {
    included_zone_sets = {
        urban
    }
[...]
}

The intent is for this to make the creation of District Specializations a bit less error-prone, and make it easier for multiple mods to add more without interfering as much with each other.

Wilderness Open Beta​

We’ve seen a lot of erratic behavior with Wilderness empires, especially when your Biomass totals on a planet get too low, where sometimes jobs would go unworked, and you aren’t always able to influence it in any way.

We’re going to update the beta branch on Steam today edit: hopefully this week to test some experimental quality-of-life changes we’ve made to Wilderness. Some of them are impactful and different enough that we want to get some more eyes on them and get feedback before we consider moving them into the release build.

In the Wilderness Beta, jobs are actually worked automatically, using your primary species for traits. After all, you are the empire. This replaces the massive Workforce bonus that Wilderness pops received, and makes it behave closer to the intended design of the origin. This change intends to make Wilderness generally more robust against bugs and less prone to economic crashes when creating buildings that consume most of their Biomass.

Biomass should still chill “unemployed” like before, but the jobs will use 0 pops instead of 1. This should resolve any of those edge-case issues when many of your jobs wouldn’t be producing.

A Wilderness empire not filling their jobs properly.

Bad planet!

As part of this, we’ve enabled the workforce sliders for Wilderness jobs like other Empires have. This should give you more control over your economy, so you can disable certain jobs if you’re running a deficit or otherwise optimize your economy by only working the jobs that you need.

New Wilderness jobs, showing Workforce and allowing you to manipulate the sliders

Much better.

We recognize that this makes your Biomass species less important overall. You’ll probably want to optimize them for growth rather than production since they won’t be working the jobs anymore, so we wanted to put this up in an open beta to get your thoughts.

The Open Beta branch will also include the experimental fast save transfer that we’re currently expecting to go live after we can add a toggle to disable it if it’s causing save transfer issues.

Feature​

  • Experimental changes to Wilderness:
    • To prevent issues with biomass not being available on planets due to construction, all Wilderness jobs are now automatically worked without requiring biomass. These jobs are worked by your primary species.
    • Jobs for Wilderness are now also properly represented instead of being worked by a single pop with massive workforce bonuses, you now see exactly how the job is worked, and the sliders are also now usable to customize how much of each job will be worked.
    • These changes are intended to prevent situations where some jobs would go unworked, make Wilderness less bug-prone, and are intended to give you more control over your economy in deficit situations. Please provide feedback!
  • The experimental fast save transfer for multiplayer is included in this build.

Bugfix​

  • Fixed ringworlds colonized by gestalt empires having a mysterious city district that shouldn't exist.

Our intention is to run this Wilderness Open Beta for the rest of the summer so we can gather feedback.

What’s Next?​

4.0.19 is tentatively scheduled for next week, with more bugfixes and optimizations.

Today I'll be looking at purging, and we're investigating save game issues, but if there’s a bug you could put at the top of the list, what would it be?

Since next week is Midsommar week, our next dev diary will be on June 26th. See you then.
 
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This balances the fact that this origin starts with a larger population (thanks to its colonies) than the other origins
Even with those, their total growth would still be very low. Compare that to pre 4.0 where they had essentially normal growth, so it's a clear nerf. And so far I haven't heard anywhere that this was intended.

Especially for Necrophage Hives, which with even less pre-patent pops.
 
Today I'll be looking at purging, and we're investigating save game issues, but if there’s a bug you could put at the top of the list, what would it be?
Thank you for your continued work. Everyone wants their pet issue fixed first. I am sitting pretty on 3.141596 so have no skin in the game, but have been keeping up with developments. To me, this bug looks high-priority as it is not limited to specific playstyles and affects the single-player AI, which the vast majority of players will be interacting with:
 
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Will there be plans for prison worlds? Sort of like penal colonies to send criminals and species you don’t want on your main planet.

They’ve existed in the game for years. You can send pops there but criminals don’t move there. It just lowers crime empire wide.

Though could be interesting to maybe have criminals auto migrate to penal worlds with a % chance based on enforcers or something.
 
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This balances the fact that this origin starts with a larger population (thanks to its colonies) than the other origins
This doesn't Necrophage also currently has pop growth and assembly disabled from its necro pop. Which means its pop does not count towards growth at all. So you only have 1500 "growing" pop on your home planet which is not enough to even reach the planet capped growth rate. Vs 4500 growing pop for most starts. Even with factoring in the pops on the secondary planets at 600ish a piece you end up with a total of 2700 in growing pop or 1 planet worth of growth max. A normal species at 3 planets would have 4700 of growing pop. Combined with the bonus pop growth getting reduced incorrectly bug, necrophage doesn't really work at all.

I would make the following tweaks to Necro.
  1. Increase starting pops to 3000 prepients and 1500 necros which is more thematically inline anyway. Giving necros 4200 growing pops at 3 planets.
  2. Change it so that necrophages no longer have a pop assmebly mallus but disable logistial pop growth entirely instead of just reducing.
    1. Yes I said neither currently work but TBH I think this is a bug. As the code even when it should be resulting in false does not allow the spiecies to grow the behavior currently mimics what should have happened piror to 4.0 I would need to check 3.14's code directly to see what it said. Code is in common/game_rules/00_rules.txt under species_uses_bonus_growth and can_species_procreate
  3. Create a planetary decisions for necros to allow chamber of elevation to ignore local pop growth
    1. This mechanic that balances against local planet pop grwoth and doesn't work when migration is a thing. What should be happening right now is you have growth planets and the pops move around to fill chambers of elevation currently you need to colocate those thing which is a PITA.
  4. Chamber of elevation should be able to have ANY slave's in it not just those who can work speclist jobs, i.e. not Nerve stapled pops and livestock pops. I believe battle thralls do actually work in it but not non sapient pops or livestock.
  5. Chamber of elevation should be a species right.

But also necropurging give 0 unity, because floor(20/100) = 0. See events/necroids_events_1.txt id = necroids.1 and id = necroids.4 The first works most of the time because the chamber pop is over 20 but the second never fires unless you go cosmegensis. This and other similar events can either be switched to stashing a variable at the planet level and looping on every 100 pops purged in total or by just adjusting the numbers to fire at a smaller amount every 10-20 pops. The other method used for alot of these is to fire a while loop PER POP which yes means a LOT of purge events fire 100+ times. Since many of them fire for multiple species they are actually firing 1000s of times on month loop vs previously having fired 10s of times. Variable stashing at the planet or empire level would be cheaper if those events cannot be algebrically calculated and need to be fixed counts looped over. Though I have no idea if doing so has some odd implication for multithreading because the events cannot be run sequentially though TBH it should still be cheaper because if the game is using a lock underneither its going to get thread contention anyway when 2 planets run 100 iterations of a while loop targeting the same variable. Even just swapping to 20 vs 1 for these would result in a dramtic reduciton in purge loop iteration and purge performance. At 15 empires triggering for 100 pops 75 times vs 1500 times.
 
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They’ve existed in the game for years. You can send pops there but criminals don’t move there. It just lowers crime empire wide.

Though could be interesting to maybe have criminals auto migrate to penal worlds with a % chance based on enforcers or something.


I just started playing the game recently with all the DLCS and haven't fully seen all the content yet. I haven't spotted anything prison related so far.
 
Haven't played in a while due to traveling so I apologize, some may be fixed, but I will try to help out since you asked for bugs to fix... I am also now running the ariphaos "unofficial patch"

AI doesn't build offspring nest(so forever has -50% menial drone output), spawning pools, clone vats, etc...

AI/automation for Hives should prefer to build hive warrens instead of waiting for maintenance drones to accumulate when they have plenty of minerals. It should also have the proper logic to destroy/replace like I believe drone storage does.

AI doesn't repair buildings. Could have been fixed but didn't see it any patch notes.

AI doesn't seem to be able to swap out zones. A problem when AI no longer always have access to industrial districts like in the past but much of scripts still are constructed with that assumption. The weight adjustments you did helped but they still can't adapt/react to economic changes(of their own making or conquest). If you think that current state is "good enough" then so be it.

AI gets free city specializations on colonize, sometimes both city zone specializations are complete on colonization finishing( ). Edit: Seems that the AI is able to start building specialization zones during colonization, saw an AI with a half constructed zone on colonize. Honestly don't mind this, it just might be a symptom of other bugs. Might be related to the AI spamming out holdings everywhere til enough "stick"(https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...0-10-10cb-ai-overlord-spams-holdings.1752809/)

I don't play with slaves but sounds like they are broken. Especially Slavers guild civic. Lots of topics on it.

Is cybernetic creed fixed? Seems like new bugs are always popping up based on reddit posts but haven't played the origin in 4.0 myself.

Species Modding seems to remove leader traits like cybernetic/erudite if the group your modding doesn't have that trait. Also seen a flurry of bug reports here about erudite being removed after 1 month.

Some not technically bugs...

Settling colonies via migration treaties is "dead" because it's basically impossible to "grow" the new species due to the pop growth changes...well unless you settle a bunch of worlds just to transfer the pops over and abandon those colonies so that you can build up a high enough population for the new species to actually grow... On the otherhand, this does buff terraforming/habitability modification.

Job Stratas seem to be very confusing for new players. We've had a lot of posts on reddit about "economic death spirals" and the root cause of it is players not understanding either that buildings/districts don't produce anything and how pops interact with them or losing all their worker production because their pops all promoted to specialists and the player not understanding why the pops don't work the worker jobs the empire needs. I think earlier today someone entered a death spiral due to conquest because he killed too many pops in his conquest so a vast amount of pops went to fill specialist jobs on conquered worlds...but he didn't understand that. Not sure what you can do to better "teach"/"inform" players of this.

The naval cap changes with bioships can also confuse people. Not sure how to best handle this. Maybe at the top add in parenthesis what the expected naval cap usage would be if all current ships were allowed to fully mature? Perhaps change the color if the "mature" usage would be over cap to warn the player?

I also want to say that I absolutely hate the "lazy" approach to pop growth where you just increment the pop size in the pop group which ends up creating unemployed rulers/specialists every month. They really should go into a "placeholder" group that is at the worker or civilian level without a faction tag.
 
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4.0.19 is tentatively scheduled for next week, with more bugfixes and optimizations.

Today I'll be looking at purging, and we're investigating save game issues, but if there’s a bug you could put at the top of the list, what would it be?
2 bugs:
  1. Planetary automation for the AI not working sanely. I imagine this is actually hard to fix.
    1. They are not properly targeting enough science like at all
    2. Bioships empires are targeting too much energy.
      1. Side note why do bioships have energy upkeep? its only from the drive slot which makes the least sense
    3. Soldiers are generating too much fleet cap now and causing issues with a large number of terrible fleets that get stack wiped easily and cause lag.
      1. The AI needs to prioritize getting better ships to increase fleet strength vs getting more ships. It should also cycle out bad smaller ships in its fleets. It seems to wait until fleets are destroyed only.
  2. Making slave output bonus actually give slave worker job efficiency.
    1. Currently it does nothing because job output bonuses are not per species
    2. I imagine this is actually easy to do but needs actual balancing
    3. I CANNOT imagine a scenario where given the currently values essentially becoming multiplicative instead of previously being additive with each other the result being anything other then complete dominance of slaving. Maybe just cut them in half directly.
    4. Though TBH slaving has been so bad for so long that maybe it is actually balanced given how OP Egalitarian empires are and have been.
 
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I just started playing the game recently with all the DLCS and haven't fully seen all the content yet. I haven't spotted anything prison related so far.

To be fair they have an issue that they appear late in the game, typically too late to be needed. There is a technology called “penal world”. Once you’ve researched it you can pick a planet (it has to meet certain criteria that I can’t remember, I think being above a certain size and not having an upgraded capital building) and use a decision to turn it into a penal world. All its jobs will change to suit the theme. The people there will be criminals that produce resources, and by having such a world crime will go down across your empire.

I haven’t built a prison planet in 4.0 (IMO they need the tech changed to tier 2 so you don’t get them so late) but they seem ripe for custom district specialisations. Like one that creates soldier jobs allowing for Sarduakar-esque soldier recruitment.
 
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It was an interesting one that was caused by the evaluation order of arguments not being defined by C++. Since we were generating two random integers in the arguments of the function, it had different behavior on different platforms.

Note that this can happen on the same version of the same compiler too, sometimes you just need to change compiler switches to make it do that, and sometimes it just does it anyway.

BTW, can your static analysis tools not catch this?
 
Gestalt Rogue Servitor machine migration still seems wonky, they love just picking 1 singular planet (usually the home world or your first colony) and migrating all pops to there, regardless of if there is jobs available to work there or not. Makes the pop system uh, not work, you have to settle everything manually.

Rouge Servitor receiving refugees who have escaped purging are still marked as undesirables but don't get killed (cus that's not what RS do) and do not swap correctly to bio-trophies.
 
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Some thoughts on Biomass & Wilderness:

I don't like that Biomass are treated like pops to such a degree - Biomass generating more Biomass makes little sense to me thematicly: i thought Biomass is the non-used mass of your planet-hive, a bit like fat for a body. Fat doenst generate fat - my "used" Biomass transforms nutriants into fat.

Btw the tooltip is also a bit strange:
"to incease: Grow more Pops"
... I don't have Pops. I have Biomass.

Gameplay wise it feels counter-intuitive to me too. It's a ressource and all other ressources in the game are spent to generate more ressources. Not Bio Mass - it has to be partly saved to generate more. My RTS-damaged brain can't handle willingly holding ressources :D

IMO you could make them even less like Pops - replace their growth with a # of districts based one (scaling with Pop growth effects). Biomass would'nt have a need to have traits at all then.
Still fake pops, but more fake, less clunky and you can focus more in freely growing instead of holding back.
 
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4.0.19 is tentatively scheduled for next week, with more bugfixes and optimizations.

Today I'll be looking at purging, and we're investigating save game issues, but if there’s a bug you could put at the top of the list, what would it be?

Since next week is Midsommar week, our next dev diary will be on June 26th. See you then.

Please fix the evolutionary predators. The traits don't apply correctly. If they get erudite, then the leaders don't get the traits. If they get inner darkness through I think the coolest planet event ever they lose the trait after the next situation completes (save attached). Please make it so that evo predators get the option to add the trait to the situation option pool like with plasmic. I love the new origin, but it has been a flagship origin for the expansion and has still not been fully fixed. I've been begging you guys to fix it since at least 4.06 https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...udite-bug-v-4-0-13-9024.1759862/post-30419873

Here I'm attaching the saves with the inner darkness trait and evolutionary predators.
 

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I agree about Necrophages being fixed as urgent above all, imo, they are an important bit of flavour of which I dabble in from time to time. I mean it's a whole origin really.

But that said, if there's a wide sweeping issue that's more general to give to the whole game, then it should trump a civic being broken.

Planetary automation would be a big one for me but I'm just succumbing to doing it manual like old times and I think I'm a minority that just leaves automation to mostly do it all and started to depend on it.
 
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The Lathe is still broken. purge goes too fast for manual addition and purges into the lathe create just undesirables that never convert.
With 0 output, of course. These were 14K pops just recently.

1749760151345.png
 
Still nothing about gestalt amenities...

Could we at least hear whether the state of maintenance drones is something you're happy with, something that'll be updated soon, or something planned to be looked at later?
 
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You know, on the subject of control over our economies I really think you should return to the 3 priority levels for jobs we had long ago. Just having a favorite job doesn't cut it, I really want to have: Must fill, second tier, only excess pops levels. Currently to do this you must fiddle with the job number slider bars a lot, but returning prio levels would make things a lot easier to set and forgot.

While I'm dreaming of features, an extra "as needed" checkbox on jobs would also be good - for example when I am short on amenities or high on crime I want those jobs filled, but after the planet's needs are met I only want pops going there if they have nothing else to do. This can be somewhat handled by the automation system (although it seems wonky, and I have reported a bug there), but maybe it'd make more sense to handle via job settings.

As for bugs, it's hard to really pick one must fix. In general I'd really like to see a pass over jobs/civics/origins to clean up more missed cases. Like Clerks and Culture workers showing up in a few places, or Hyperlane Registers (and the related civic and council position) being utter garbage. Also some starting choices have very unbalanced jobs available or resource shortfalls.

Also!
 
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