Hey all!

Today’s topic will further explore the subjects of fleet movement, FTL-travel and the general wonders one might happen upon when ripping holes through subspace. As the writing of this is a bit sudden the dev diary came out late today, our apologies!
The galaxy is a pretty huge place and to get anywhere in a timely manner you’ll want to travel faster than the speed of light, or use FTL-travel for short. Stellaris will have three methods of FTL that players can use; Warp, Hyperlanes and Wormholes. They all have distinct advantages and disadvantages when it comes to the strategic movement of ships and fleets causing expansion paths, diplomacy and wars to be quite different depending on the method used.

Warp
Warp requires each ship in the fleet to be equipped with a Warp Drive. These are quite costly to build and cause a major drain on each ship’s available power, but allows unconstrained travel to any system within range. When travelling to a system outside the range of a single warp-jump, the fleet has to make a sequence of jumps through a number of systems. Any jump puts a considerable strain on a ship’s Warp Drive, causing the fleet to not be able to jump again for a short while after arrival. While this can be reduced by more advanced technology, it does remain a weak point throughout the game for any species using this method.
Fleets using Warp Drives to travel will need to do so at the edge of a system to lessen the gravitational pull of the local star. This in combination with the fact that warp-jumps have the slowest FTL-speed of the three methods means that the arrival point of an incoming warp-fleet can be identified, and possibly ambushed. The cost of freedom is potentially high!

Wormhole
Some species have decided to sidestep this whole business of blasting through the void at ludicrous speed. They prefer to open up a temporary wormhole that a fleet may use to instantly travel to a distant system. These wormholes can only be generated by a Wormhole Station, a type of space station that can only be constructed on the outer edge of a system. Any fleet wanting to travel will have to use the Wormhole Station as a connecting point, passing through it whenever they leave the system. The station may only generate a single wormhole at a time, forcing all ships and fleets to wait while one is being prepared. The larger the fleet, the longer it takes for the Wormhole Station to be ready. The wormhole generated does allow two-way travel, but will collapse almost instantly after sending a fleet through.
Constructing and maintaining an efficient network of Wormhole Stations is vital to any species using wormholes, as it will allow sending huge fleets from one part of the galaxy to another in very short time. It also allows striking deep inside enemy territory with little warning. This great strength can also be a great weakness, as fleets are left with no means of further offense or retreat should the network be disabled through covert attacks by enemy strike-fleets.

Hyperdrive
The galaxy in Stellaris has a hidden network of hyperlanes connecting the systems, only visible for those who know where to look. Ships that are equipped with a Hyperdrive can access these lanes and use them to traverse the galaxy at incredible speed. They are however bound by the preexisting network, and has to path through each system connecting their current location and target. Galactic voids lacking systems are in effect huge movement-blockers for any species using hyperlanes, having few systems allowing possible crossings. An enemy could potentially fortify these vital systems should they become aware of their existence, creating strategic choke-points. As the hyperlanes exist in subspace, fleets may access them from anywhere within a system and does not have to travel from the gravitational edge as Warp Drives and Wormhole Stations do. As such, catching a fleet using hyperlanes can be tricky. Correctly identifying the paths to intercept and interrupt their somewhat long charge-up is probably your best bet.

All methods of FTL-travel can be improved by researching more advanced technologies. While their exact effects differ some they all improve the speed, range, efficiency or cooldown of FTL-travel. However, being able to casually bend time and space with increased power does not necessarily mean using it with more responsibility. As additional species bend the laws of physics to send larger and larger fleets through the galaxy, there is always the risk of something, or someone, noticing...

Next week we’ll talk more about the different species in the galaxy. Look forward to it!

 

[((1+SQRT(5)))/2]

You don't need a wormhole station at the leaving system just as long as there is a station at the destination.

So if you start at system A you can

Open wormhole to system B - send scout through
Open wormhole to system B - bring scout back
Open wormhole to system C - send scout through
etc.

It's not that you need to build an all new scout fleet per system to explore you just need to wait for the wormhole station to cycle repeatedly

So, travel through the wormhole station is based on the cycle of the fixed wormhole connection to another system, and to send a fleet to that destination, it would be by sending the ships through when the wormhole is open.

Q: How does this work then?

The larger the fleet, the longer it takes for the Wormhole Station to be ready.

 

[BeauNiddle]

So, travel through the wormhole station is based on the cycle of the fixed wormhole connection to another system, and to send a fleet to that destination, it would be by sending the ships through when the wormhole is open.

Q: How does this work then?

It's not a cycle around the systems, the user decides where the gate is going to open. I was just pointing out it is two way transit so you can bring fleets home without needing a wormhole station at the other end.

I assume there is a limited transit time (so you can't scout around whilst leaving the wormhole open) hence the need to open 2 wormholes to the same system - one out, one back.

The time it takes to open a wormhole presumably depends on tech & fleet size. So early game it takes say 3 days +1 day per gigaton of fleet to open a gate and in late game it might take 0.5 days + 0.1day per gigaton. Scouting will be slow early on but probably very fast late game. However suitably sized war fleets (for that stage in the game) can probably only be moved around every few days / weeks and so you better not be planning on hit and runs. (all times & weights assumed and for illustration purposes only)

 

[((1+SQRT(5)))/2]

It's not a cycle around the systems, the user decides where the gate is going to open. I was just pointing out it is two way transit so you can bring fleets home without needing a wormhole station at the other end.

I assume there is a limited transit time (so you can't scout around whilst leaving the wormhole open) hence the need to open 2 wormholes to the same system - one out, one back.

The time it takes to open a wormhole presumably depends on tech & fleet size. So early game it takes say 3 days +1 day per gigaton of fleet to open a gate and in late game it might take 0.5 days + 0.1day per gigaton. Scouting will be slow early on but probably very fast late game. However suitably sized war fleets (for that stage in the game) can probably only be moved around every few days / weeks and so you better not be planning on hit and runs. (all times & weights assumed and for illustration purposes only)

So, For illustration purposes Only:
To scout with wormhole. (first you need a wormhole station).
Then, send scout through wormhole. Select scout, send through wormhole.
Wait (3 days + 1 day per gigaton) divided by wormhole tech level. (if additional fleets are built during this time, like a colony ship, it would miss this wormhole, but catch the next one?)
Scout sent.
To return the scout after its been scouted. (use the same wormhole station)
do the same thing as above. (what if you wanted to return the scout AND send the Colony Ship?)
Wait (3 days + 1 day per gigaton) divided by wormhole tech level.
Scout returned. (and maybe the Colony Ship sent).
To scout more systems, more Wormhole stations to them would need to be built. (A transportation hub is a collection of Wormhole stations).
But, the process is all the same.

Right???

 

[illathid]

So, For illustration purposes Only:
To scout with wormhole. (first you need a wormhole station).
Then, send scout through wormhole. Select scout, send through wormhole.
Wait (3 days + 1 day per gigaton) divided by wormhole tech level. (if additional fleets are built during this time, like a colony ship, it would miss this wormhole, but catch the next one?)
Scout sent.
To return the scout after its been scouted. (use the same wormhole station)
do the same thing as above. (what if you wanted to return the scout AND send the Colony Ship?)
Wait (3 days + 1 day per gigaton) divided by wormhole tech level.
Scout returned. (and maybe the Colony Ship sent).
To scout more systems, more Wormhole stations to them would need to be built. (A transportation hub is a collection of Wormhole stations).
But, the process is all the same.

Right???

Answering the questions in order:
-I assume you wait for the wormhole to be created, but the actual travel is instant. So after you select the scout to go to the other system, it would just wait in system for the wormhole to be created.
-it's unclear from what we know how the colony ship would interact. But having to wait until the 1st wormhole is completed seems plausible.
-yeah, you'd have to wait for a return wormhole to open for the scout to comeback. It's not clear if the colony ship could use the same wormhole the scout is going the opposite direction. My gut feeling is no, but I could be wrong.
-you'd only need to build more stations if they were not in range of the original wormhole station, or if you wanted to send multiple fleets at once (like in your colony ship example). The exact ranges for the different haven't been divulged yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if you could explore 20-30 systems with one wormhole station.

 

[((1+SQRT(5)))/2]

Also, to clarify terms, being that there are these things each can be upgraded with Technological advances:
Range. My guess is this would be the total exploration you can explore away from any owned system. For, Warp and Wormhole, just set it as the final destination, or for warp you could set in between points. Hyperdrive may need to go through more connection paths to reach where you want to go.
Cooldown. My guess is this would be the delay, or wait time, of an engine (warp, hyperdrive, wormhole) before it's use. My guess is Wormholes have the longest wait because their speed is instantaneous.
Speed. My guess is this would be the distance divided by the inbetween time for space travel, which only a category for Hyperdrive and Warp users, because Wormhole has an instantaneous time.
Efficiency. My guess is this would be the cost of the engine or wormhole.

Is this right?

 

[((1+SQRT(5)))/2]

-yeah, you'd have to wait for a return wormhole to open for the scout to comeback. It's not clear if the colony ship could use the same wormhole the scout is going the opposite direction. My gut feeling is no, but I could be wrong.

All the knowledge we have about that is from this DD quote below. My understanding is that it's two way travel, but it will collapse after sending a fleet (a fleet can be split up, right???) though. So, it depends, can a fleet be split up, being in two different systems? I don't know.

The wormhole generated does allow two-way travel, but will collapse almost instantly after sending a fleet through.

 

[illathid]

All the knowledge we have about that is from this DD quote below. My understanding is that it's two way travel, but it will collapse after sending a fleet (a fleet can be split up, right???) though. So, it depends, can a fleet be split up, being in two different systems? I don't know.

It may just depend on how the interface works. For instance, I'm imagining you don't actually do anything with the wormholes themselves. You select the fleet, select the destination, and it's automatically added to the best wormhole station.

 

[((1+SQRT(5)))/2]

I hope the two way wormhole can be used two ways at once through the interface. Is the interface setup for that dd? If not, I feel it should, because Having to choose whether to scout or colonize at a specific point in time would be very time costly decision compared to other hyperlane and warp species, plus to continue scouting and expanding, with transportation hubs too, the time does add up, and the dream longed for, lost, later game due to the extra colonization and exploring time, the plus the already station cost. Why pay more for a wormhole station, for a lessor travel experience? Think of the transportation node dream! Is my fascination with wormholes well founded?

 

[illathid]

I hope the two way wormhole can be used two ways at once through the interface. Is the interface setup for that dd? If not, I feel it should, because Having to choose whether to scout or colonize at a specific point in time would be very time costly decision compared to other hyperlane and warp species, plus to continue scouting and expanding, with transportation hubs too, the time does add up, and the dream longed for, lost, later game due to the extra colonization and exploring time, the plus the already station cost. Why pay more for a wormhole station, for a lessor travel experience? Think of the transportation node dream! Is my fascination with wormholes well founded?

Well I wouldn't start colonizing until everything is almost entirely scouted myself. I think Wormholes will support a much slower "turtle" style of game play.

 

[((1+SQRT(5)))/2]

Well I wouldn't start colonizing until everything is almost entirely scouted myself. I think Wormholes will support a much slower "turtle" style of game play.

To think, The advantage of Wormholes is the Transportation Hub. (which has many station costs, making scouting expensive early on and with this quote longer time because of the need of going back and forth to your Home World, if another ship like a Colony Ship needs to take action, and is no more like connecting Hyperlane paths to the homeworld , a little farther out than Warp).
To think, The advantage of Wormholes is the Upgradable Range of the Transportation Hub. (which doesn't matter much in a smaller "turtle" empire, given this quote).
To think, The advantage of Wormholes is the Aha moment, the Surprise Attack. (which can backfire, if you're soon counter-attacked and have your forces cut-off from your empire).
To think, The advantage of Wormholes is like a "reusable engine" (which has to be 'fortified' because it can be destroyed, extra vulnerability).

For the extra station costs, time expense to scout, limited range a little beyond warp, being cut-off when countered, and having to 'fortify' an extra point of vulnerability -- I hate Wormholes! (even though, the imagination of the node hubs, upgradable range, surprise, and reusability was stimulating!) I just 'feel' its not worth it.

Hyperlanes for me! (because they cost less than warp (even with their freedom to conduct ambushes and intimidation, im not going to pay more for that, I'd rather have a bigger fleet size), are faster (with a longer cooldown - balanced), and without overwhelming minuses like wormhole). - the true point of efficient transportation. The only downside (the need for a 'convoy').

 

[Sakul A.]

To think, The advantage of Wormholes is the Transportation Hub. (which has many station costs, making scouting expensive early on and with this quote longer time because of the need of going back and forth to your Home World, if another ship like a Colony Ship needs to take action, and is no more like connecting Hyperlane paths to the homeworld , a little farther out than Warp).
To think, The advantage of Wormholes is the Upgradable Range of the Transportation Hub. (which doesn't matter much in a smaller "turtle" empire, given this quote).
To think, The advantage of Wormholes is the Aha moment, the Surprise Attack. (which can backfire, if you're soon counter-attacked and have your forces cut-off from your empire).
To think, The advantage of Wormholes is like a "reusable engine" (which has to be 'fortified' because it can be destroyed, extra vulnerability).

For the extra station costs, time expense to scout, limited range a little beyond warp, being cut-off when countered, and having to 'fortify' an extra point of vulnerability -- I hate Wormholes! (even though, the imagination of the node hubs, upgradable range, surprise, and reusability was stimulating!) I just 'feel' its not worth it.

Hyperlanes for me! (because they cost less than warp (even with their freedom to conduct ambushes and intimidation, im not going to pay more for that, I'd rather have a bigger fleet size), are faster (with a longer cooldown - balanced), and without overwhelming minuses like wormhole). - the true point of efficient transportation. The only downside (the need for a 'convoy').

I would love to see some kind of combination and development between the different ways of FTL-methods.

Warpdrives allowe an "unconstrained" travel between the Systems, wich should allow you to quickly explore nearby systems without the restrictions of wormhole station or the forced lanes of hyperdrive.
Given the fact, that wormhole stations need to charge longer, the larger you fleet gets its also a possibility for a second FTL method your military can use and prevent your fleets from getting stuck useless within a system if the wormholestations were destroyed.
Also you don't have to fly by any system on the path to your destination, like hyperdrives ships do or at least you need a lot fewer stops than those.
I see it as a good joice if you want to travel short distances in general, where a charge up of a wormhole would take to long, or want to take a cutoff within a hyperline network.
But for long distance travel hyperline and wormholes could be more effective. So while your sphere of influenze rises you might get your main FTL method change to one of the other two but keep warpdrives as a backup just in case.

It looks like each way of traveling between the stars has its own profile of pros and cons and wich technology is the best depens a lot on the circumstances you find around you.

Warpdrives look like a decent allorund method.
You have no chargeup time before a jump, like hyperdrive or wormholes. Just travel to the edge of a system and warp to your destination. The traveltime for one trip is slow but you are not restricted to given routes like hiperdrives.
You need to recover your warpdrive after a warp, but this seems ok as long as you don't have to warp multiple times in a row, because you usually warp to a system for a reason and while you explore your warpcore has plenty of time to do so. In my eyes their bigges drawback are the high cost and the power drain they cause to your ships.

Wormholes are expansive too. They need a charge up time before you can leave the system but bring you to your destination instantly. This means you can reach every system within the stations range within the same time, ignoring the distanz. This makes them realy good for situation where you have a lot of stars to cover but they are spread around. And your ships don't need to be equiped with FTL-engines wich should give your more power for the weapons.

Hyperdrives could be the common way in a med to late game.The requirements to the ship seems to be lower than those of the warpdrives. They need a while to entering the hyperlanes but can do so from everywhere within a system. While they are fast while moving, they have to enter every single system on their way to the destination while following the hyperlane. This might be not a drama on short trips but can be a big drawnback for longer routes.

In my eyes a combination of wormhole/ hyperdrives or warp-/ hyperdrives could be a good way to overcome the drawbacks of a single FTL-technology. Wormhole/ warpdrive seems to be to expansive in my eyes.

I personly would prefer warpdrives in the early game and the wormhole/hyperdrive method later, because it gives you a quick short range way and one fast unbound for greater distances without the need of installing expansive warpdrives on your ships and limit their posibilitys by a powerdraining engine.

 

[((1+SQRT(5)))/2]

And your ships don't need to be equiped with FTL-engines wich should give your more power for the weapons.

Yes, there would be more space (power as you say) for weapons on board a wormhole ship! I hadn't considered that before. But, the extra space for the weapons may be as costly as a Warp drive engine. Maybe, they're balanced for late game WAR, but not my choice.

I see it as a good joice if you want to travel short distances in general

Warp would be advantageous for multiple systems nearby, going point to point. But, at a considerable warp engine cost. Gee, I don't know.

I personly would prefer warpdrives in the early game

I see your point, for the early game.... Hyperlanes are well rounded; they don't suck at scouting and station costs early game like wormholes do, and in a massive army later game, would be cheaper than Warp engines, due to their excessive cost on many ships! Wormholes are an expensive idealization for the late game, if you can make it that far with an advantage. Warp is also an expensive option for the late game too, but at least would have the cumulative effects from the early game advantage.

If I could choose 1 at the beginning, I might choose warp. (for scouting pt to pt and colony ships, but just PHASE I).
If I could switch to 1 from the mid game on, I might choose hyperlane. (the costly warp engines add up in massing WAR ships).
And, unless I was in an idealistic position for the endgame, an overwhelming advantage, but probably not because it's cumulative. (wormholes ships have more paid weapons onboard without a drive, and the network is in place and 'fortified' but with many, many minuses, like I explained).

I 'feel' the best about Hyperlanes.

 

[((1+SQRT(5)))/2]

Not only does warp have the advantage of direct pt to pt travel, for exploring and colonization, early game. If you find stuff on the various systems like technologies or advanced tribes leaders etc, thats a advantage too. It has the flexibility of in between flexible points of fleet massing mid game. The idea is if you need to attack in a pinch, do a tactical ambush in a pinch, or go back in time to defend, this is good. Yes, warp might be best, until fleets have had time to mass. There might be a window of attack, if missed, the hyperlane massive war fleet becomes dominant, due to decreased engine costs.

 

[Sakul A.]

I would still try to use a combination of two methods for the mid to late game.
Stick witch Warp while your empire is small in his sphere of influenze but the larger you grow the more you need faster methods.
A combination of hyperdrive for short distances and wormholes for longer jorneys or shortcuts would be my chioce.
The normal transportation method would be hyperdrives, because they seem to be the cheapest method and pretty fast for short connection flights.
But building a few wormhole stations on stratigic points of interest would be also a great way to raise your forceprojection.
One station in your capital system should give you a great posibility to quickly send reinforcments in all systems within range without the risk of being intercepted. One station near the boarder to your enemy would give you a way to send a haresment fleet behind the enemy lines.

What i didn't get yet:
You have a system "A" with a wormhole station.
If you send a fleet from system "A" to system "B" it will wait near the station till the wormhole is created, jumping throug and instantly reaches this system.
If you now want to travel from system "B" to system "C" wich are right next to each other. Will the wormholestation be able to open a connection between these two stars or must the fleet travel back to system "A" and from there to "C" ?

 

[Teleros]

Some thoughts, mostly modding-related:

First, I hope we can use all three methods for the same faction / race / whatever. A Honor Harrington mod based on warp drives + a few hyperlanes as HH-style wormholes would be nice.

Second, hopefully we can turn off the Antarans / space monsters / whatever that insist on noticing us flying about .

Warp

Hoping we can mod out the downsides to this drive and adjust the speed, as high-speed, trivially easy "go-anywhere" FTL would be very useful for Star Wars, Lensman etc.

Wormhole

Lots of stargate-y settings could use this, obviously. I'm assuming you can put multiple wormhole stations in each system, but if not then being able to add this would be great.

Hyperdrive

Not much to say here... I'd like to be able to adjust the range and necessity of travelling through every system between A and B.

 

[((1+SQRT(5)))/2]

You have a system "A" with a wormhole station.
If you send a fleet from system "A" to system "B" it will wait near the station till the wormhole is created, jumping throug and instantly reaches this system.
If you now want to travel from system "B" to system "C" wich are right next to each other. Will the wormholestation be able to open a connection between these two stars or must the fleet travel back to system "A" and from there to "C" ?

From A to B (wait on station 1 to generate a wormhole) and B to C. (wait on station 2 to generate a wormhole).
From A to C. (you will need another wormhole station).

If you want to go via A to B to C. (2 stations, 1 on system A, 1 on system B).
if you want to go via A to B (and back again), then from A to C. (2 stations, 2 on system A).

If the development of System B is a priority, a wormhole station might not be. However, with you'd have 3 legs to travel A to B, B to A, A to C.
If a station in system B is made. A to B, and B to C. 2 legs would be more time efficient for the scout ship, but not for system B development.

In reality, I imagine Hubs within the empire. It's not just about scouting in 2 legs. It's about the imagination of developing a ship anywhere, sending it to the home word, and then from the homeworld (or the hub) to wherever you want it to be.

 

[pguyton]

Do you start with the tech or will you have to research it ?

When you guys say "choose" do you pick a path via research direction or so thing in the settings prior to starting the game in your race setup ?

I personally prefer a branching tech path as selection process and having to research it - akin to earth now trying to get into space

 

[((1+SQRT(5)))/2]

Some thoughts, mostly modding-related:

First, I hope we can use all three methods for the same faction / race / whatever. A Honor Harrington mod based on warp drives + a few hyperlanes as HH-style wormholes would be nice.

Second, hopefully we can turn off the Antarans / space monsters / whatever that insist on noticing us flying about .


Hoping we can mod out the downsides to this drive and adjust the speed, as high-speed, trivially easy "go-anywhere" FTL would be very useful for Star Wars, Lensman etc.


Lots of stargate-y settings could use this, obviously. I'm assuming you can put multiple wormhole stations in each system, but if not then being able to add this would be great.


Not much to say here... I'd like to be able to adjust the range and necessity of travelling through every system between A and B.

I imagine warp speed being the best upgrade given a starting slow and steady speed, wormhole range for usage of hubs, and hyperlane cooldown for better overall useage.

And cost efficiency upgrades for all.

 

[((1+SQRT(5)))/2]

Do you start with the tech or will you have to research it ?

When you guys say "choose" do you pick a path via research direction or so thing in the settings prior to starting the game in your race setup ?

I personally prefer a branching tech path as selection process and having to research it - akin to earth now trying to get into space

It's a choice at the Beginning of the game. Presumably, before any travel is done.


Source: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/08/06/stellaris-paradox-strategy-game/
8/6/2015. By: Adam Smith. Quoting from the source below....

"Conquest works as in other Paradox strategy games. Rather than winning a battle and taking the spoils, you’ll need to negotiate peace agreements that cede control of colonies. The way that fleets move around the map is wholly different, however. There are three forms of faster-than-light travel and each species chooses one at the beginning of the game. Hyperlanes connect systems directly but those who use them are tied to the existing layout, turning the map into a series of nodes. Travelling through the warp is slower but provides freedom of movement. Wormholes require stations, constructed at the edge of systems, but allow for long jumps."

 

[illathid]

From A to B (wait on station 1 to generate a wormhole) and B to C. (wait on station 2 to generate a wormhole).
From A to C. (you will need another wormhole station).

If you want to go via A to B to C. (2 stations, 1 on system A, 1 on system B).
if you want to go via A to B (and back again), then from A to C. (2 stations, 2 on system A).

If the development of System B is a priority, a wormhole station might not be. However, with you'd have 3 legs to travel A to B, B to A, A to C.
If a station in system B is made. A to B, and B to C. 2 legs would be more time efficient for the scout ship, but not for system B development.

In reality, I imagine Hubs within the empire. It's not just about scouting in 2 legs. It's about the imagination of developing a ship anywhere, sending it to the home word, and then from the homeworld (or the hub) to wherever you want it to be.

What? no you could do it all with one wormhole station it would just be quicker with more. From A to B using the station in system A, then from B to A using the same station, and then finally from A to C using that same station. Basically You can have a fleet in range of a wormhole station travel to any other system in range of the wormhole station in two jumps, the first being to the system with the station.