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Stellaris Dev Diary #42 - Heinlein patch (part 3)

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. This is the third part in a multi-part dev diary about the 'Heinlein' 1.3 patch that we are currently working on. This week's dev diary will be about more miscellaneous changes and improvements coming in the patch, currently planned for release sometime in October.

Federation/Alliance Merger
When Federations were given the ability to vote on invites and wars, alliances became a bit of an odd duck in the Stellaris diplomacy. A middle layer between the 'loose' diplomacy of defensive pacts and joint DOWs, they ended up as little more than a weak form of Federation that's usually swapped out the moment the latter becomes available. In Heinlein, we've decided to retire alliances altogether and have Federations be the only form of 'permanent' alliance. When you unlock the technology for Federations, you will immediately be able to invite another empire into a Federation with you, 4 empires no longer being necessary to start one. Once a Federation has been formed, the technology is not required to invite new members or to ask to join it.

Federation Association Status
Another issue we ran into with the changes to diplomacy in Asimov is that Alliances and Federations had trouble bringing in new members - since non-aggression pacts, defensive pacts and guarantees were no longer possible with outside powers, building trust is difficult and you have to mostly rely on large bribes to get new members to join, something that just didn't feel right. To address this, we're adding a new diplomatic option to Heinlein called 'Federation Association Status'. This works similarly to an invite to the Federation in that it can be offered and asked for with any member of the Federation, but must be approved via unanimous vote. A country that has Federation Association Status is not actually a part of the Federation, but has a non-aggression pact with all Federation members and will gain trust with them up to a maximum value of 100. Revoking association status can be done via majority vote, or on the part of the associate at any time they like.
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Planet Habitability Changes
The planet habitability wheel is a mechanic we were never quite happy with - it makes some degree of sense, but it's hard to keep track of how each planet relates to your homeworld type, and it ends up nonsensical in quite a few cases (Desert being perfectly fine for Tropical inhabitants, or Arid for Tundra, etc). We found that most players tend to intuitively divide planets into desert/arid tundra/arctic and ocean/tropical/continental, and so we decided to change the mechanic to fit player intuition. Instead of a wheel, planets are now divided into three climate groups (Dry, Wet and Cold) and two new planet types (Alpine and Savanna) were added so that each group has 3 planet types. Habitability for the climates now works as follows (numbers may be subject to change):
  • Habitability for your main planet type is 80% (as before)
  • Habitability for planets of your climate is 60%
  • Habitability for planets of other climates is 20%
As such, you no longer have to keep track of anything other than which climate your planet type has to know whether a particular type of world is suitable for your species.
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We also felt that the number of habitable planets in the galaxy was too large overall, but that we couldn't really decrease it so long as the player only had access to 1/7 of those types at start, which would now become 1/9. We also felt the colonization tech gating could be rather arbitrary, particularly if you had a species suited to a particular planet type but still couldn't colonize it due to lacking the tech. As such, we've done away with the tech gating on colonization, and instead instituted a 30% minimum habitability requirement to colonize a planet. You will also be unable to relocate pops to a planet if their habitability there would be under the 30% minimum. With this change we've also majorly slashed the number of habitable worlds in the galaxy, though if you prefer a galaxy lush with life you will be able to make it so through a new option outlined below. We are, of course, looking into and tweaking the effects that having less habitable worlds overall will have on empire borders.

More Galaxy Setup Options
There is an old gamer's adage that says 'more player choice is always better'. We do not actually agree with this, as adding unnecessary/uninteresting choices can just as well bog a game down as it can improve it, but in the case of galaxy setup in a game such as Stellaris, it is pretty much true. With that in mind, the following new galaxy setup options are planned to be included in Heinlein:
  • Maximum number of Fallen Empires (actually setting a fixed number is difficult due to the way they spawn and how it's affected by regular empires)
  • Chance of habitable worlds spawning
  • Whether to allow advanced empires to start near players
  • Whether to use empire clustering
  • Whether endgame crises should be allowed to appear

Sector Improvements
Since barely a day goes by without a new thread on the topic of sectors and enslavement, we would of course be remiss not to deal with this particular bugbear. We intend to spend a considerable amount of time on the sector AI for Heinlein, but I'm not going to go into specifics on bug fixing/AI improvements but rather on a series of new toggles that we intend to introduce to give the player more control over their sector. In addition to the current redevelopment/respect tile resource toggles, the following new toggles are planned for Heinlein:
  • Whether sector is allowed to enslave/emancipate
  • Whether sector is allowed to build spaceports and construction ships
  • Whether sector is allowed to build military stations (this will replace the military sector focus)
We're also discussing having a sector toggle for building and maintaining local defense fleets, but we don't think we'll have time for it in Heinlein.

That's all for today! Next week we'll be talking about Fallen Empires, how they can awaken, and the War in Heaven.
 
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Because it has four neighboring planet types instead of three. Also, four of the types would only have two neighboring types.

One could solve this problem, if one had a 5 by 5 planet type matrix, but only the center 3 by 3 could by valid species preferences. Then all starting planet types would have their surrounding 3 by 3 matrix of somewhat compatible planets.
Ah, I wasn't specifically thinking about modifying relative to all neighboring, just within the column.... The quick fix is to modify all of them left-right... but that looks wrong...

Maybe modify (in our imaginary solution) one step in to the middle from the outside, and then two steps to the far side.... but then still gives the middle column too much of an advantage...
 
We want to make it easier to keep the habitability mechanics in your head, not harder.
I have a home type with 80% hab. I can make one change (temp OR humidity) away from that home type for 60% hab, or 2 changes (temp AND humidity) for 20%. Doesn't seem that hard to me.
For balance, the corner cases need to extend into the "uninhabitable" planets so everyone gets 3 60% types. (Continentals would get 4, so nerf them to 45%). Extend to molten planets for hot dry native species and frozen ones for cold wet natives. Have to think about what to put in the other 2 corners. Anyway, sounds like a good mod to make even if you guys don't like the idea.
 
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I have a home type with 80% hab. I can make one change (temp OR humidity) away from that home type for 60% hab, or 2 changes (temp AND humidity) for 20%. Doesn't seem that hard to me.
For balance, the corner cases need to extend into the "uninhabitable" planets so everyone gets 3 60% types. (Continentals would get 4, so nerf them to 45%). Extend to molten planets for hot dry native species and frozen ones for cold wet natives. Have to think about what to put in the other 2 corners. Anyway, sounds like a good mod to make even if you guys don't like the idea.

Dunno, but to me it sounded like:
Homeworld type: 80%
Same 'column' as homeworld type (e.g. Savanna and Arid for Desert): 60%
Everything else: 20%
 
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I have a home type with 80% hab. I can make one change (temp OR humidity) away from that home type for 60% hab, or 2 changes (temp AND humidity) for 20%. Doesn't seem that hard to me.
Exactly how it's principially differ from current system but visually?
 
Exactly how it's principially differ from current system but visually?
Well, now if you want to colonize other worlds, you can basically only colonize those in the same column as your homeworld.
For example, if you start on continental world, you can colonize other continental worlds and have 80% habitability, or you can colonize tropical and ocean worlds, and have 60% habitability there.
You can't colonize other 6 types of planets unless you increase habitability somehow.
 
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Dunno, but to me it sounded like:
Homeworld type: 80%
Same 'column' as homeworld type (e.g. Savanna and Arid for Desert): 60%
Everything else: 20%
That's what they're going with, I and some others in this thread were suggesting a two axis grid instead, temperature and humidity. For balance, that would need to extend into the uninhabitable worlds so the corner cases had 3 60% types like the rest.
1 - - - 2
- 3 4 5 -
- 6 7 8 -
- 9 10 11 -
12 - - - 13

7 is continental. 3 is hot and dry and can settle 1,4, and 6 at 60%. No one but 3 can settle 1, which is molten. 13 is frozen and can only be settled by 11 which is cold and wet. Not sure what to put in slots 2 and 12, maybe they're molten and frozen too. Not familiar with the uninhabitables off the top of my head.

Anyway, it's probably all just mod fodder.
 
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I have a home type with 80% hab. I can make one change (temp OR humidity) away from that home type for 60% hab, or 2 changes (temp AND humidity) for 20%. Doesn't seem that hard to me.
For balance, the corner cases need to extend into the "uninhabitable" planets so everyone gets 3 60% types. (Continentals would get 4, so nerf them to 45%). Extend to molten planets for hot dry native species and frozen ones for cold wet natives. Have to think about what to put in the other 2 corners. Anyway, sounds like a good mod to make even if you guys don't like the idea.

I like that you say "it's not that complicated, it should just work like this" and then go on to specify multiple sub-rules and exception cases. o_O

The two axis grid that was mentioned a while back makes sense from a classification point of view sure, but not for game balance.
 
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For example, if you start on continental world, you can colonize other continental worlds and have 80% habitability, or you can colonize tropical and ocean worlds, and have 60% habitability there.
I've meant two-axis system, not patch system. :)

7 is continental. 3 is hot and dry and can settle 1,4, and 6 at 60%. No one but 3 can settle 1, which is molten. 13 is frozen and can only be settled by 11 which is cold and wet. Not sure what to put in slots 2 and 12, maybe they're molten and frozen too.
So it's kinda complicated and special clauses based system. Not am I exactly opposite, but I believe it should be noticed.
 
What about the behavior with Gene tailoring?
When all pops from my Xenophobic species are changed, the leaders stay the original species, causing the Alien Overlord penalty indefinately (since you can't remove a positive trait)
 
Not sure if this has ever been suggested, but what I would like to see in this game is ability to join already ongoing war between nations, be it aggressors or especially defenders side.

Way too often I have smaller neighbor which is quite good terms with me, nor I have zero interest in its lands anyway myself, but it works as sort of buffer against big enemy in other side of that friendly-ish empire. Big one decides to swallow that small one, making itself bigger & stronger, thus more annoying future enemy for me. Those cases I would really love to help them to defend themselves, but can't do nothing but watch, after it has started.
So it's kinda frustrating, personally would love to have option to help those.

Or I have really annoying neighbor and friendly aggressor actually ends up losing side for some reason, in those cases I could want to help aggressor to get the stuff they want. Still I don't mind if this gets left out, as long as I could join defensive wars.

It also could to be extended so that my neighbor could ask help when it becomes desperate enough, so if I'm behind it doing nothing, they could come to ask me to help them, aka save them, for example defensive pact or voluntary vassalization/Protectorate under me after the war (due had no interest to help them otherwise, then it's not free for them).

TL;DR would love to join ongoing wars, especially defensive side, when it is useful to me and my goals.
 
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Technology for Federations: Tech should give a misc. bonus, making it useful to those that never need to research it (For the same reasons Auto-Explore will have a misc. bonus). Tech should be req, to create a new Federation from scratch. Also you could have it, that once you join a Federation, the Tech gets 100 free research points and is always available to finish researching from then on out (like how some events/reverse engineering give you so much tech xp).

In my current play-through, I keep avoiding the Federation Tech, and it is so annoying that it keeps poping up. Sounds like it will be much worse in the new patch, where once in a Federation you don't need the tech at all, ever.
 
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I like the changes to the planet types, but it would be good to go further. As people have already pointed out, the basic grid is just one of temperature vs. water availability, and I think that's a good start to decide where your empire starts. But I'd go further - shouldn't gravity be another major factor in planetary suitability? If you come from a high gravity world, those with low gravity ought to be more difficult to live on and vice-versa. You could even argue that high gravity worlds are those with more land spaces to build on, and since that would be a major advantage, give low gravity races a bonus when it comes to traversing space, fleet capacity for instance, since many more people would be happy to live out there. That would also interact nicely with building space habitats or entirely artificial colonies on barren worlds (which should be a thing!).

Then why not add a few more hazards that can be overcome with technology - currently there are a bunch of interesting modifiers that can affect a planet, but they are somewhat in the background. Radiation, poisonous gases, acid rain - those sort of things can be overcome with future technology instead of simply allowing us to colonize different places. Plus I'd really, really like it if you could terraform planets in neutral space, since anything within your own space has usually been colonized badly by the time you get the technology and materials. Observation posts in neutral space wouldn't hurt either!
 
About the two-axis system: make it wrap and you're set.

1 - 2 - 3
4 - 5 - 6
7 - 8 - 9

Hab 60%:
1: 2, 4, 7, 3
2: 1, 3, 5, 8
3: 1, 2, 6, 9
4: 1, 5, 6, 7
5: 2, 4, 6, 8
6: 3, 4, 5, 9
7: 1, 4, 8, 9
8: 2, 5, 7, 9
9: 3, 6, 7, 8

Hab 20%:
1: 5, 6, 8, 9
2: 4, 6, 7, 9
3: 4, 5, 7, 8
4: 2, 3, 8, 9
5: 1, 3, 7, 9
6: 1, 2, 7, 8
7: 2, 3, 5, 6
8: 1, 3, 4, 6
9: 1, 2, 4, 5

(btw I'm perfectly happy with the way the devs proposed it. But this system could be easily modded if someone wants.)
 
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What about the behavior with Gene tailoring?
When all pops from my Xenophobic species are changed, the leaders stay the original species, causing the Alien Overlord penalty indefinately (since you can't remove a positive trait)
Wiz confirmed that this will no longer be the case (thank heavens!) in Heinlein.
I can't wait to get rid of that annoying modifier next patch. :)
 
About the two-axis system: make it wrap and you're set.
So, let's just build hab wheel, right? Well, I saw it somewhere before. ;)
 
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Will there be an option to allow multiple endgame crises in a single game? I'm dreaming of the utter chaos of an Unbidden Invasion invading simultaneously with the Prethoryn Scourge in the middle of a massive AI rebellion (and then all of them fighting each other with the poor normal empires caught in the middle of absolutely everything...).