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Stellaris Dev Diary #42 - Heinlein patch (part 3)

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. This is the third part in a multi-part dev diary about the 'Heinlein' 1.3 patch that we are currently working on. This week's dev diary will be about more miscellaneous changes and improvements coming in the patch, currently planned for release sometime in October.

Federation/Alliance Merger
When Federations were given the ability to vote on invites and wars, alliances became a bit of an odd duck in the Stellaris diplomacy. A middle layer between the 'loose' diplomacy of defensive pacts and joint DOWs, they ended up as little more than a weak form of Federation that's usually swapped out the moment the latter becomes available. In Heinlein, we've decided to retire alliances altogether and have Federations be the only form of 'permanent' alliance. When you unlock the technology for Federations, you will immediately be able to invite another empire into a Federation with you, 4 empires no longer being necessary to start one. Once a Federation has been formed, the technology is not required to invite new members or to ask to join it.

Federation Association Status
Another issue we ran into with the changes to diplomacy in Asimov is that Alliances and Federations had trouble bringing in new members - since non-aggression pacts, defensive pacts and guarantees were no longer possible with outside powers, building trust is difficult and you have to mostly rely on large bribes to get new members to join, something that just didn't feel right. To address this, we're adding a new diplomatic option to Heinlein called 'Federation Association Status'. This works similarly to an invite to the Federation in that it can be offered and asked for with any member of the Federation, but must be approved via unanimous vote. A country that has Federation Association Status is not actually a part of the Federation, but has a non-aggression pact with all Federation members and will gain trust with them up to a maximum value of 100. Revoking association status can be done via majority vote, or on the part of the associate at any time they like.
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Planet Habitability Changes
The planet habitability wheel is a mechanic we were never quite happy with - it makes some degree of sense, but it's hard to keep track of how each planet relates to your homeworld type, and it ends up nonsensical in quite a few cases (Desert being perfectly fine for Tropical inhabitants, or Arid for Tundra, etc). We found that most players tend to intuitively divide planets into desert/arid tundra/arctic and ocean/tropical/continental, and so we decided to change the mechanic to fit player intuition. Instead of a wheel, planets are now divided into three climate groups (Dry, Wet and Cold) and two new planet types (Alpine and Savanna) were added so that each group has 3 planet types. Habitability for the climates now works as follows (numbers may be subject to change):
  • Habitability for your main planet type is 80% (as before)
  • Habitability for planets of your climate is 60%
  • Habitability for planets of other climates is 20%
As such, you no longer have to keep track of anything other than which climate your planet type has to know whether a particular type of world is suitable for your species.
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We also felt that the number of habitable planets in the galaxy was too large overall, but that we couldn't really decrease it so long as the player only had access to 1/7 of those types at start, which would now become 1/9. We also felt the colonization tech gating could be rather arbitrary, particularly if you had a species suited to a particular planet type but still couldn't colonize it due to lacking the tech. As such, we've done away with the tech gating on colonization, and instead instituted a 30% minimum habitability requirement to colonize a planet. You will also be unable to relocate pops to a planet if their habitability there would be under the 30% minimum. With this change we've also majorly slashed the number of habitable worlds in the galaxy, though if you prefer a galaxy lush with life you will be able to make it so through a new option outlined below. We are, of course, looking into and tweaking the effects that having less habitable worlds overall will have on empire borders.

More Galaxy Setup Options
There is an old gamer's adage that says 'more player choice is always better'. We do not actually agree with this, as adding unnecessary/uninteresting choices can just as well bog a game down as it can improve it, but in the case of galaxy setup in a game such as Stellaris, it is pretty much true. With that in mind, the following new galaxy setup options are planned to be included in Heinlein:
  • Maximum number of Fallen Empires (actually setting a fixed number is difficult due to the way they spawn and how it's affected by regular empires)
  • Chance of habitable worlds spawning
  • Whether to allow advanced empires to start near players
  • Whether to use empire clustering
  • Whether endgame crises should be allowed to appear

Sector Improvements
Since barely a day goes by without a new thread on the topic of sectors and enslavement, we would of course be remiss not to deal with this particular bugbear. We intend to spend a considerable amount of time on the sector AI for Heinlein, but I'm not going to go into specifics on bug fixing/AI improvements but rather on a series of new toggles that we intend to introduce to give the player more control over their sector. In addition to the current redevelopment/respect tile resource toggles, the following new toggles are planned for Heinlein:
  • Whether sector is allowed to enslave/emancipate
  • Whether sector is allowed to build spaceports and construction ships
  • Whether sector is allowed to build military stations (this will replace the military sector focus)
We're also discussing having a sector toggle for building and maintaining local defense fleets, but we don't think we'll have time for it in Heinlein.

That's all for today! Next week we'll be talking about Fallen Empires, how they can awaken, and the War in Heaven.
 
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@Philocrate

You bring good ideas. Of course, every time I read something about federations, I think of my own country (Canada) (and others), and I think a federation in Stellaris should be a group of states on their way to integration, with the possibility of one state gobbling them all (or for the experience to become a (beautiful) mess of players ruling sectors in a new empire).

Alliances should be brought back eventually, as you say as a military-only treaty, while federation would be much more, but I currently am not angry about the changes they made if alliances and federations were two sides of the same coin.

Embassies could have been linked to events, but I don't like the mechanic by which you are limited in the number of peaceful relations you can have (that applies to EUIV too). The idea you seem to be going to would be that "having an embassy" would mean seeing the country as an actual empire, whereas if you remove it, you would see them as you saw them before opening communication channels. Thus, it would be a very grave action, more than declaring war. It would be fun to have such an option.
 
This should make the game a heck of a lot more fun, also would help to speed it up a slight bit given how colonization and federations are now.

The new worlds system seems pretty cool honestly. Though I think I'll miss the wheel abit, this is certainly a much greater alternative.
 
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The new worlds system seems pretty cool honestly. Though I think I'll miss the wheel abit, this is certainly a much greater alternative.

Yes, it will probably be more difficult to become a "multi-racial empire" and to be able to colonize every type of planets without conquering someone.
 
Yes, it will probably be more difficult to become a "multi-racial empire" and to be able to colonize every type of planets without conquering someone.

And that just makes it evermore fun. Honestly having an adaptive species is cool and all, but being limited is even more fun, because it gives you a challenge. Now, if you're playing as a Pacifist than this would be an issue (as I myself normally play passively), but then again, the whole thing with Federations would certainly help in that regard for Passive species.

We'll have to see just how all this will play out when it come to ethos, I think it would be rather interesting.
 
Great news.

If the patch lives up to what was promised I'll buy plantoids eventhough I wont ever use it.

Imho debris halting research should have been hotfixed seperately from the new big patch.

Thanks to Parafox for being professional and passionate by contemplating on their work and listening to the voices of their customers!
 
Then differentiate them, don't scrap one. On Earth, alliances and federations aren't the same

If they were too similar, than the design should be adjusted. They aren't the same thing. Alliances, as Philocrate said, are military agreements. Federations, such as the early U.S., are both political and economic in addition to military. While the heads of the EU seem to want a true federation, the organization is primarily economic. There should be variations on this theme. Economic agreements between two governments are fine, but why can't we have more than two in the same agreement for mutual benefit. And vassals should be allowed to become something more -- that's how the Commonwealth grew out of the British Empire.

They needed to be tweaked/modify to make something interesting out of them. Establishing a permanent diplomatic mission abroad is the first step to deepen relationships.

As it stands embassies are of little use. I am in open contact with every group I meet. I don't have to establish diplomatic relations with anyone, it's automatic. Legations, Consuls, and Embassies are, in real life, different levels of DR. The French, acknowledging Texas after its separation from Mexico sent a diplomatic mission to establish a legation -- it would have become an embassy eventually, but Texas was annexed by the U.S. before it got to that point. It was recognition of Texas as a legitimate country. Each of these could easily allow different levels of diplomatic interaction.

I agree: the diplomatic game is getting weaker with this change.
 
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Will there be any changes to the War mechanic concerning Protectorates? I've been reading up on this issue around here and it seems that so far, my tiny 2-planet-crap-tech-no-fleet-to-speak-of Protectorate declaring a war of its own against my neighbour (whom I myself am on perfectly good terms with!) and subsequently getting eaten in the process without any chance for me to do anything about it is totally WAD. I mean maybe approaching this from a linguistic angle is the wrong way, but if something is called a PROTECT-orate so far I've been under the impression that it is something I actually have an interest in PROTECT-ing. As in either from making stupid decisions like that in the first place, or at least by me being able to protect them from the consequences of said stupid decisions. Like for example by being called into their war.

Enough with the sarcasm for now, but please please change this ASAP. I really don't see the benefit of pouring credits and science into an underdeveloped Civ just to see them vanish into some AI player's empire a few years later. Notwithstanding the apparent issue with Protectorates never being able to actually become vassals through tech - I can not speak to that since none of my Protectorates have ever even survived long enough for that to become a problem.
 
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Regarding the start options, there are a few more that I would really like to see:
- starting planet size, probably between 15 and 25 due to Empire-Capital Complex building requirements
- a modified playable "advanced start" (i.e. more resources on starting planet and system, more starting pops, larger starting fleet)
- chances of special systems appearing (i.e. max = sanctuary, zanaam, sol system, etc. all appear; zero = none of those appear)
- maximum number of empires in a cluster (on top of the listed option for clustered starts)

Other than that, the new start options are looking like a huge improvement to the random galaxy generation system.
 
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Stellaris was pretty great when i first loaded it up. I've had it on the back burner while i play other things, but seeing this big overhaul coming has me really excited to start playing again. keep up the good work devs
 
Colonization tweaks sound immensely nifty. As someone who favors collectivistic empires, size matters!
 
Perhaps there's a better place for this (which I'll go search for after I post), but since this is the latest development announcement I figure it can't be a horrible place to bring it up.

There's a bug with the docile slave faction. Specifically, it is possible for unrest to happen even when you've given in to the factions demands, that is, regulating slavery. I tend to regulate slavery right at the beginning of my slaver games (production goes up? Go figure) in order to make the faction more controllable. But about one out of every three or four games, when the docile slave faction hits 25% support, the unrest modifier will be applied regardless of slavery policy. I've had several games where I regulate slavery, but the unrest modifier still happens when the thresh hold is reached.

Any word on if this is being looked into?

Thanks

EDIT: It's also good to mention this isn't isolated to me. I've had friends in their own single/multiplayer games have this same issue.
 
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Still missing from the game:

1:Ships should have a distance travel limit. which can go far away as long as proper technologies are researched. What's with the ships travelling as far as they can from home planets? So unreal.
2:Federation should have options on how to build them. Why would I share my technology with lower empires?
3:Still missing the possibility to BUY systems. Sometimes systems or outposts are cut off from empire space and so maybe one would have the possibility to buy those to the owner. War is not the only option.
 
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1:Ships should have a distance travel limit. which can go far away as long as proper technologies are researched. What's with the ships travelling as far as they can from home planets? So unreal.
Play Wormhole-only. Job done.
2:Federation should have options on how to build them. Why would I share my technology with lower empires?
So that their ships can actually be useful in combat alongside yours.
3:Still missing the possibility to BUY systems. Sometimes systems or outposts are cut off from empire space and so maybe one would have the possibility to buy those to the owner. War is not the only option.
We might, conceivably, get the ability to sell systems, since the ability to sell (or gift) territory exists in EU4. The ability to proactively buy territory, on the other hand, is something Paradox tried in the original Victoria, and decided it was utterly terrible; I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it to show up in Stellaris.
 
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@Wiz Albeit a small request, since this is the diary for diplomacy, I was hoping we could see the use shift+ctrl to trade stacks of 1000 to ease the clicking of late game resource trading.
 
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That hardly seems like a bug. That seems like what one should expect from slaves. After all, it's not like you emancipated them or anything.

The tool tip for "unrest," and any other faction effect for that matter, says the effects will not be in place if you've given in to all the demands of the faction. Regulating slavery is the only demand docile slaves have, and therefore should behave.
 
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my workaround for this is to redevelop such systems only to have mines, before I hand it to a sector AI not allowedt to redevelop.
I can handle this bad sector AI basically. Most importantly by controlling the most important systems, which I use to build my fleets, myself and occationally being one or two sectors over the limit. You cannot hand sectors you need to build your fleet to the AI since for spaceport modules it completely ignores not being allowed to redevelop.

What one cannot work around is debris halting your research. Prior to anything else imho this should be hotfixed. I hate to leave 98% of debris unresearched.

My little list of bad stellaris bugs:
- the mentioned redevelopment of orbital modules by AI forbidden to redevelop
- AI forbidden to redevelop which wont upgrade and wont build anything despite beeing uber rich
- additional sector research which does not grant you additional sectors (rare but really bad)
- nothing showing you that you go over the sector limit with developing colonies
- admirals in multiple fleets = admirals that cannot be removed form a fleet and have to be removed by/splitting the fleet removing their vessel from the fleet (my workaround)
- govenors frequently "dropping out" of a planet assinged to (only had this twice though, both times it was my capital they did not want to govern)
- quest exclamation marks that stay forever even after the quest was researched (didn't have this latly anymore might be fixed)
- swarm quest that stays active forever, even though the swarm is no more
actually I want to stop here..

But to close this comment with a good thing:
The planned "encourage to follow" button for fleets is absolutely great! for upkeep reasons I rarely use my main fleet; resulting in having multiple vassal fleets chilling with my main fleet for the whole duration of most of the wars.

Great improvement. Don't dare not to implement this great feature you announced. ;-)
 
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