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Stellaris Dev Diary #43 - The Fallen

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. This is the fourth part in a multi-part dev diary about the 'Heinlein' 1.3 patch that we are currently working on. Additionally, from this point on we will also start to cover some features in an upcoming content DLC that will be released alongside Heinlein. This content DLC will not be a full expansion, but rather a smaller pack of events and scripted content focusing on a particular area of the game. Please note that everything mentioned thus far, and everything mentioned from now on that isn't explicitly marked as paid content will be free in the Heinlein patch. Details about the DLC such as name, price and release date will come in a future announcement, and further content will be covered in coming dev diaries. The focus of today's dev diary is Fallen Empires, who are about to receive a number of reworks, changes and additions.

The Fallen
Fallen Empires are my favorite part about the Stellaris setting. The idea of a precursor empire, milennia old, whose borders once stretched across the galaxy, their glory now faded, their great advancements forgotten, but the power of their ancient fleets and technology still far above that of any fledgling empire. Enigmatic actors on the galactic scene, whose morals and ambitions have been warped by ages of self-imposed isolation. For me, it invokes images of the Galactic Empire from the Foundation and the Vorlons and Shadows from Babylon 5. However, the implementation of Fallen Empires never quite matched my visions - originally meant to be completely passive, they were retooled fairly late in the development to give them some basic personality and goals as enforcers of particular taboos. While these goals make for some memorable experiences for new players (I've seen more than a few stories of careless colonization of Holy Worlds) they by necessity require Fallen Empires to behave in a highly predictable manner that, once understood, turns them back into actors of little consequence to the player. For this reason, fleshing out Fallen Empires and adding an element of unpredictability to them has been high on my priority list ever since I became Game Director, and this is what we're aiming to do in the Heinlein patch and accompanying DLC.

Sleepers Awake (Free Feature)
The idea of Fallen Empire 'awakening' was mentioned by Henrik Fåhreaus/doomdark a number of times during development as something we were interested in doing, but ultimately is something that ended up being cut for time. In Heinlein, all Fallen Empires will have a chance to awaken as a result of certain external factors. The exact conditions and chance under which each Fallen Empire will awaken depends on their ethos, but some examples include:
  • Endgame Crises threatening them or the galaxy
  • Regular empires growing too strong/technologically advanced
  • Other Fallen Empires being defeated by regular empires
  • Other Fallen Empires awakening first

When a Fallen Empire awakens, their personality, government and country type change. Their previous restriction on building ships, colonizing and conquering is lifted and they become what we call an Awakened Empire. Awakened Empires have one of the following four personalities:
  • Militant Isolationists become Jingoistic Reclaimers, and will try to conquer the galaxy
  • Holy Guardians become Doctrinal Enforcers, and will try to convert the galaxy to their faith.
  • Enigmatic Observers become Benevolent Interventionists, and will try to force all other empires into becoming a signatory to a galactic peace treaty.
  • Keepers of Knowledge become Watchful Regulators, and will try to force all other empires to accept their technological primacy.

Awakened Empires will start to rapidly expand, colonizing surrounding systems and conquering those races who will not submit to their demands. In each case, you will be able to avoid their wrath by submitting to them as a subject, with a special subject type for each of the four:
  • Jingoistic Reclaimers have Thralls, tributaries who may not colonize but can fight among each other.
  • Doctrinal Enforcers have Dominions, tributaries with enforced spiritualist ethics and government.
  • Benevolent Interventionists have Signatories, subjects who may not wage war, enslave or purge, but are otherwise independent.
  • Watchful Regulators have Satellites, who must pay a share of their research to their overlord and are required to ban all AI.

Once a Fallen Empire awakens, they will not stop until their galactic ambition is achieved or they are defeated by a coalition of lesser races. Only a few events will cause them to change their plans, such as the presence of an endgame crisis or the start of the War in Heaven (more on that below).
fxgorpU.png


Personality Changes (Free Feature)
Among the four Fallen Empire personalities we created for release, two of them didn't really work out: The Keepers of Knowledge and Enigmatic Observers. The Holy Guardians and Militant Isolationists restrict you from a certain part of space - sure, that part may be a deliciously tempting size 20 Gaia World, but ultimately you can always find another place to expand. The Keepers of Knowledge and Enigmatic Observers, however, restrict playstyles - if you get one of the former in your galaxy, you can forget about having sentient robots until you're strong enough to take them on. As there's little you can do about this other than hope for the right type of Fallen Empires to spawn, it's not very fun and ultimately just limits player strategies in a rather arbitrary way. For this reason, we've decided to revamp the Keepers of Knowledge and Enigmatic Observers.

While not awakened, they will not concern themselves with restricting the overall actions of the 'lesser' empires: Instead, they will pursue specific goals and ambitions that sometimes require them to interact with these very empires. These goals and actions take the form of Requests and Demands: If you have established communications with Keepers of Knowledge or Enigmatic Observers, they will sometimes contact you and either give you a task (for example, to hunt down a splinter faction of their species or recover a cache of technology from one of their old worlds) or make a demand (for example, one of your pops for their 'galactic preserve'). Completing their tasks will result in an opinion boost and a reward (such as technology or perhaps even a Fallen Empire ship), while repeatedly rebuffing their demands may result in a declaration of war to put you in your place.

The awakened versions of these two will take on some of the characteristics of the old, non-awakened versions, with Benevolent Interventionists seeking to enforce galactic peace and Watchful Regulators trying to regulate the level of technological advancement in the galaxy. They will also act as the first line of defense against galactical crises, taking it on themselves to unite the lesser races against such existential threats.

New Designs (Free Feature)
A small detail that I felt was lacking in Fallen Empires was the absence of any unique designs. All the Fallen Empires used the same (fairly lacking) Avatars and Eclipses, and ultimately their ships were inferior to what a regular empire that had been around for a century or two could produce. Both of these issues will be addressed in Heinlein, with each Fallen Empire ethos now having their own unique designs to use (and build, if they are awakened). For example, Keepers of Knowledge exclusively utilize energy weapons to strike their enemies at a distance, while Militant Isolationists combine afterburners and projectile weapons to get up close to their foes and tear their ships up at point-blank range. Additionally, a whole new ship class called Titans has been introduced as a (for now) exclusive new weapon in the Fallen Empire arsenal. Titans are enormous ship, the equivalent of several battleships, extremely durable and armed with a vast array of lethal weapons. They will sometimes be found in the starting fleets of Fallen Empires, and Awakened Fallen Empires will be able to build a limited number of them.
AYGerSh.png


The War in Heaven (Paid Feature)
We've talked about what happens when one Fallen Empire awakens, but what happens if there's two of them? For those with the DLC, two empires of opposing ethos (for example, Xenophobe and Xenophile) awakening can result in the War in Heaven event triggering. This event will cause the two Awakened Empires to go to war over the fate of the galaxy, dragging in the lesser species to fight on their side. All empires will be presented with a choice - join one of the two Awakened Empires and bet on their victory, join a league of non-aligned empires and hope you can stand against them both, or stand alone and risk being trampled underfoot when the war comes your way. Unlike a normal war, the War in Heaven is a cataclysmic event that will not end once a few worlds have been captured or a few battles won - it will be a fight to the death that ends only when one Awakened Empire stands victorious or both have been subjugated. If one of the Awakened Empires wins, they will show favor to those who supported them and be merciless to those who opposed them.
Kb9WzCF.png


That's all for today! Next week we'll be talking about some changes coming to space creatures, how they spawn and how they scale, coming in Heinlein.
 
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Which particular issues? Because putting any major changes into a hotfix we won't have much time to test is pretty likely to cause more issues.
Some sectors don't build construction ships at all so I have to manually build research and mining stations for each system :(
And also sector keeps moving and enslaving/emancipating pops all the time. :(
 
@Wiz
...and either give you a task (for example, to hunt down a splinter faction of their species or recover a cache of technology from one of their old worlds)...
Do we get special ships or tools to be able to defeat the splinter faction (if they have FE-like ships)? Or will a FE fleet follow us?
And do we have the option to make a copy (or just outright steal) the cache of technology? ;)

or make a demand (for example, one of your pops for their 'galactic preserve')
And what if my xenophobe Fanatical Purifier empire does this on its own already? I always purge all but one pops of each species, and the last one will be enslaved and transported to Zanaam to feed the Terran inhabitants. I think you might call that a "galactic preserve" as well :D

Keepers of Knowledge become Watchful Regulators, and will try to force all other empires to accept their technological primacy
...
Watchful Regulators have Satellites, who must pay a share of their research to their overlord and are required to ban all AI.
...
Watchful Regulators trying to regulate the level of technological advancement in the galaxy
Why are the materialist Fallen Empires so evil and cruel?! I mean, shouldn't materialism be all about loving technological advancement? I think you were right about calling FEs "Enigmatic actors on the galactic scene, whose morals and ambitions have been warped by ages of self-imposed isolation"... but with the materialists it's gotten extreme! I mean, they literally to the opposite of what their ethics tell them!
If you look into a materialist FE via Observer Mode, you'll notice that their pops are really unhappy about them forbidding Artificial Intelligence. Maybe they should have a special FE-version of materialism, possibly called "Warped Materialism"? Where the pops wouldn't be unhappy about having AI be illegal because they actually don't know what their ethics really mean?
 
Is the name of the Awakened Empire War Crisis a reference to the Bible's War in Heaven, Warhammer 40k's War in Heaven between Necron/C'Tan & Eldar/Ork/Old Ones, both or a reference to something else entirely?
 
Is the name of the Awakened Empire War Crisis a reference to the Bible's War in Heaven, Warhammer 40k's War in Heaven between Necron/C'Tan & Eldar/Ork/Old Ones, both or a reference to something else entirely?

Stellaris isn't about angels and demons, so I would assume it's an homage to 40k, seeing as how the War in Heaven in 40k (and soon Stellaris) refers to precursors unleashing a galactic war on one another while using the lesser races as pawns. Lots of parallels there and definitely not a bad thing.
 
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Thank you for this great dev diary Wiz. I haven´t been this hyped since the announcement of Stellaris.
One question though. Mr. Fåhreaus mentioned in one of the pre release interviews that player empires could also become fallen empires, involving a large quest chain to stop the stagnation and so on.
Is this still on your list for future expansion after the 1.3 patch or was it just an idea you guys had at the time?
 
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I hope that part of Heinlein will be a stronger effect of ethos/traits on gameplay.
It's often complained about here that pacifists cannot win because of the current victory conditions; the way I see it is it's a broader issue, i.e., ethos/traits are not rooted enough in every mechanics of the game, and as a result, they all end up being played the militaristic way (except pacifists).
Stronger effect of traits/ethos will make empires less interchangeable and more memorable = more fun to play.
 
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it would be nice if every 1,000 years or more in the galaxy appeared new civilizations as early in the game

or perhaps there was a greater extent that sometimes helps you remain behind the scenes

the ability to recover the debris of space stations or ships not only for technology but also for ores or to repair discovered artifacts or alien ships rushed or forgotten on abandoned planets
 
Gunnerkrigg T-shirt, now this. Hope to see an Erfworld reference someday down the road (or is it already there and I missed it?:eek:)

It's a Babylon 5 reference.
 
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Great updates, you guys put alot of thought into it.

While everyone is on the topic of Fallen Empires, I'll throw in my 2 cents. Or 25 cents, depending how long it takes to write...

A few people have said they are upset about not being able to get all the Fallen Empire techs, but that's the whole point - the idea is they are so advanced your scientist cannot understand how it works, let alone reproduce it. Think the Protoss on Starcraft or the Forerunners on Halo - technology the other races have no way of comprehending. If you take that away and let everything be salvageable then the Fallen Empires just become a regular empire that is really far ahead, they lose that sense of awe and mystery. If you hate that idea, remember too that Paradox has made this game so moddable if you want something - no matter what it is - you can get it. But that doesn't mean it should have to be that way for everyone's game.

One thing that always nagged at me, was that - unless I'm mistaken - the Fallen Empire who tries to prevent end game crisis, namely the Machine Consciousness, could care less if you're researching jump drives. Given the description for them - they work by using another dimension that your scientists don't really understand - it practically says on the tin that you are toying with forces that you do not comprehend, forces that the Fallen Empires - who all have Jump Drives - should know all too well. So, why don't they at least try to warn you that your species is being irresponsible? That the Unbidden could come?

Anyway, it's a minor detail, not overly fussed about it. The ideas that the community is throwing around for the other ethos sound promising, and since Wiz said it's something he was thinking about too I will throw mine out there:

PACIFIST FE
The xenophile one needs to be made the pacifist ethos. They want everyone to be at peace, makes sense right?

XENOPHILE FE
The idea is that they are master geneticists. With uplifting and such, there is alot of design space in this area that right now no Fallen Empire cares about. The idea is that their race spent thousands of years gathering specimens, DNA, etc and now consider it their duty to oversee and "enhance" the species that share their galaxy - whether they like it or not. They would be concerned with the variety of life and genetic diversity, so uplifting another species to help them along or making a smaller, weaker species your protectorate would make them like you - you are helping them ensure that there is a great variety of different genetic material they have access to and can tinker with. On the other hand, purging species, killing space born life or terraforming worlds (which destroys the local biosphere to replace it with your own) would greatly anger them. If you earned their favour, they could reward your species with some genetic enhancements (a new trait point to spend ) or some genetic technology (perhaps instant progress on clone vats or something similar). Perhaps they would make requests like "Protect this species", "That planet has a delicate ecosystem, don't colonize it", "Let us genetically tinker with your colony on planet X" This would make them fit the flavour of being rivals with the xenophobe empire - the xenophobes want no diversity, the xenophiles wanting as much as possible, and you as the player torn between which one best supports your interests. Maybe their ships could have an organic appearance, looking more like they were grown than built.

MILITARIST FE
Some have suggested these guys being concerned with fighting for honour as opposed to just killing everything like the Xenophobes, and that seems to me to be the right track. I love the idea of an ancient warrior kingdom that grew stagnant when it ran out of worthy opponents. I think the idea to these guys would be they don't want to KILL you, they want to FIGHT you. When your fleet size got to a point that rivalled theirs in strength they would challenge you to test your strength (or something). If they wiped out your fleet but you made no attempt to retreat, they would reward you with some of their ships in return for a worthy and honourable fight. If they took planets they would give them back, since with the fight over they would return home. The idea is that they would have a strict code of honour, and would look at the other races to see if they had the potential to live by this code as warriors and equals. If you conquered many worlds, rivaled lots of enemies especially if they were much stronger than you, and made no guarantees of independence or defensive pacts they would show you honour and respect. If you were passive, frequently retreated from battle to hide behind your defense stations, spent more time talking than fighting (aka were part of a federation or lots of other diplomacy), or were so shamefully dishonourable that you actually sent clones and robots to fight for you rather than fight your own battles - with your own skill and strength for your own honor and glory - they would see you as beneath their notice, a weakling and sneak, trying to fight over their scraps and manipulate others with flattery. Maybe these guys could be unique in that they actually like you more if you defeat them - seeing you as some sort of alien warmonger messiah that has come to return their warriors to a new age of glory. Perhaps they would reward players with special troops or weapons technology for impressive acts of conquest, like conquering an empire and not having to retreat or lose a single planet. Since they would be actively promoting senseless warfare and violence, and condemning cooperation, they would be a direct opposite of the Peaceful FE. Again, the players playstyle would force a choice if the 2 fought against each other. I don't know what their ships would look like, but without a doubt they should have by far the most guns, essentially being gun turrets with thrusters on them.

I got no thoughts on collectives or individualists, but I'm sure you guys would think of something cool. I don't normally write anything on the internet, just goes to show how excited I am! Keep up the good work guys, and thanks for keeping us all involved. :D
 
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Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. This is the fourth part in a multi-part dev diary about the 'Heinlein' 1.3 patch that we are currently working on. Additionally, from this point on we will also start to cover some features in an upcoming content DLC that will be released alongside Heinlein. This content DLC will not be a full expansion, but rather a smaller pack of events and scripted content focusing on a particular area of the game. Please note that everything mentioned thus far, and everything mentioned from now on that isn't explicitly marked as paid content will be free in the Heinlein patch. Details about the DLC such as name, price and release date will come in a future announcement, and further content will be covered in coming dev diaries. The focus of today's dev diary is Fallen Empires, who are about to receive a number of reworks, changes and additions.

The Fallen
Fallen Empires are my favorite part about the Stellaris setting. The idea of a precursor empire, milennia old, whose borders once stretched across the galaxy, their glory now faded, their great advancements forgotten, but the power of their ancient fleets and technology still far above that of any fledgling empire. Enigmatic actors on the galactic scene, whose morals and ambitions have been warped by ages of self-imposed isolation. For me, it invokes images of the Galactic Empire from the Foundation and the Vorlons and Shadows from Babylon 5. However, the implementation of Fallen Empires never quite matched my visions - originally meant to be completely passive, they were retooled fairly late in the development to give them some basic personality and goals as enforcers of particular taboos. While these goals make for some memorable experiences for new players (I've seen more than a few stories of careless colonization of Holy Worlds) they by necessity require Fallen Empires to behave in a highly predictable manner that, once understood, turns them back into actors of little consequence to the player. For this reason, fleshing out Fallen Empires and adding an element of unpredictability to them has been high on my priority list ever since I became Game Director, and this is what we're aiming to do in the Heinlein patch and accompanying DLC.

Sleepers Awake (Free Feature)
The idea of Fallen Empire 'awakening' was mentioned by Henrik Fåhreaus/doomdark a number of times during development as something we were interested in doing, but ultimately is something that ended up being cut for time. In Heinlein, all Fallen Empires will have a chance to awaken as a result of certain external factors. The exact conditions and chance under which each Fallen Empire will awaken depends on their ethos, but some examples include:
  • Endgame Crises threatening them or the galaxy
  • Regular empires growing too strong/technologically advanced
  • Other Fallen Empires being defeated by regular empires
  • Other Fallen Empires awakening first

When a Fallen Empire awakens, their personality, government and country type change. Their previous restriction on building ships, colonizing and conquering is lifted and they become what we call an Awakened Empire. Awakened Empires have one of the following four personalities:
  • Militant Isolationists become Jingoistic Reclaimers, and will try to conquer the galaxy
  • Holy Guardians become Doctrinal Enforcers, and will try to convert the galaxy to their faith.
  • Enigmatic Observers become Benevolent Interventionists, and will try to force all other empires into becoming a signatory to a galactic peace treaty.
  • Keepers of Knowledge become Watchful Regulators, and will try to force all other empires to accept their technological primacy.

Awakened Empires will start to rapidly expand, colonizing surrounding systems and conquering those races who will not submit to their demands. In each case, you will be able to avoid their wrath by submitting to them as a subject, with a special subject type for each of the four:
  • Jingoistic Reclaimers have Thralls, tributaries who may not colonize but can fight among each other.
  • Doctrinal Enforcers have Dominions, tributaries with enforced spiritualist ethics and government.
  • Benevolent Interventionists have Signatories, subjects who may not wage war, enslave or purge, but are otherwise independent.
  • Watchful Regulators have Satellites, who must pay a share of their research to their overlord and are required to ban all AI.

Once a Fallen Empire awakens, they will not stop until their galactic ambition is achieved or they are defeated by a coalition of lesser races. Only a few events will cause them to change their plans, such as the presence of an endgame crisis or the start of the War in Heaven (more on that below).
fxgorpU.png


Personality Changes (Free Feature)
Among the four Fallen Empire personalities we created for release, two of them didn't really work out: The Keepers of Knowledge and Enigmatic Observers. The Holy Guardians and Militant Isolationists restrict you from a certain part of space - sure, that part may be a deliciously tempting size 20 Gaia World, but ultimately you can always find another place to expand. The Keepers of Knowledge and Enigmatic Observers, however, restrict playstyles - if you get one of the former in your galaxy, you can forget about having sentient robots until you're strong enough to take them on. As there's little you can do about this other than hope for the right type of Fallen Empires to spawn, it's not very fun and ultimately just limits player strategies in a rather arbitrary way. For this reason, we've decided to revamp the Keepers of Knowledge and Enigmatic Observers.

While not awakened, they will not concern themselves with restricting the overall actions of the 'lesser' empires: Instead, they will pursue specific goals and ambitions that sometimes require them to interact with these very empires. These goals and actions take the form of Requests and Demands: If you have established communications with Keepers of Knowledge or Enigmatic Observers, they will sometimes contact you and either give you a task (for example, to hunt down a splinter faction of their species or recover a cache of technology from one of their old worlds) or make a demand (for example, one of your pops for their 'galactic preserve'). Completing their tasks will result in an opinion boost and a reward (such as technology or perhaps even a Fallen Empire ship), while repeatedly rebuffing their demands may result in a declaration of war to put you in your place.

The awakened versions of these two will take on some of the characteristics of the old, non-awakened versions, with Benevolent Interventionists seeking to enforce galactic peace and Watchful Regulators trying to regulate the level of technological advancement in the galaxy. They will also act as the first line of defense against galactical crises, taking it on themselves to unite the lesser races against such existential threats.

New Designs (Free Feature)
A small detail that I felt was lacking in Fallen Empires was the absence of any unique designs. All the Fallen Empires used the same (fairly lacking) Avatars and Eclipses, and ultimately their ships were inferior to what a regular empire that had been around for a century or two could produce. Both of these issues will be addressed in Heinlein, with each Fallen Empire ethos now having their own unique designs to use (and build, if they are awakened). For example, Keepers of Knowledge exclusively utilize energy weapons to strike their enemies at a distance, while Militant Isolationists combine afterburners and projectile weapons to get up close to their foes and tear their ships up at point-blank range. Additionally, a whole new ship class called Titans has been introduced as a (for now) exclusive new weapon in the Fallen Empire arsenal. Titans are enormous ship, the equivalent of several battleships, extremely durable and armed with a vast array of lethal weapons. They will sometimes be found in the starting fleets of Fallen Empires, and Awakened Fallen Empires will be able to build a limited number of them.
AYGerSh.png


The War in Heaven (Paid Feature)
We've talked about what happens when one Fallen Empire awakens, but what happens if there's two of them? For those with the DLC, two empires of opposing ethos (for example, Xenophobe and Xenophile) awakening can result in the War in Heaven event triggering. This event will cause the two Awakened Empires to go to war over the fate of the galaxy, dragging in the lesser species to fight on their side. All empires will be presented with a choice - join one of the two Awakened Empires and bet on their victory, join a league of non-aligned empires and hope you can stand against them both, or stand alone and risk being trampled underfoot when the war comes your way. Unlike a normal war, the War in Heaven is a cataclysmic event that will not end once a few worlds have been captured or a few battles won - it will be a fight to the death that ends only when one Awakened Empire stands victorious or both have been subjugated. If one of the Awakened Empires wins, they will show favor to those who supported them and be merciless to those who opposed them.
Kb9WzCF.png


That's all for today! Next week we'll be talking about some changes coming to space creatures, how they spawn and how they scale, coming in Heinlein.
This was a pretty spectacular DD. Thanks very much, Wiz!
 
I am now totally stoked about this release. I'm hoping you fix the works as designed/but everyone hates, war demands "bug."

While FEs are clearly inspired by Vorlons and Shadows in B5 and other stories, they remind me more of the Minbari, not so far ahead in tech that they can't be defeated or reached ... eventually. The really ancient empires required every species to unite against them AND needed the help of some of the other old ones.

Some ideas for FEs. A species so xenophobic they don't even announce their presence. They just destroy anything that comes their way. Ships go in ... and disappear.

An awakened FE that decides only the strong may exist, and genocides all the weaker species.

An FE shows up and tells you not to study a certain anomaly, don't even approach this system outside their borders.

What I'd really like are FEs that are really alien.

But so far everything seems really awesome.
 
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Great updates, you guys put alot of thought into it.

While everyone is on the topic of Fallen Empires, I'll throw in my 2 cents. Or 25 cents, depending how long it takes to write...

A few people have said they are upset about not being able to get all the Fallen Empire techs, but that's the whole point - the idea is they are so advanced your scientist cannot understand how it works, let alone reproduce it. Think the Protoss on Starcraft or the Forerunners on Halo - technology the other races have no way of comprehending. If you take that away and let everything be salvageable then the Fallen Empires just become a regular empire that is really far ahead, they lose that sense of awe and mystery. If you hate that idea, remember too that Paradox has made this game so moddable if you want something - no matter what it is - you can get it. But that doesn't mean it should have to be that way for everyone's game.

One thing that always nagged at me, was that - unless I'm mistaken - the Fallen Empire who tries to prevent end game crisis, namely the Machine Consciousness, could care less if you're researching jump drives. Given the description for them - they work by using another dimension that your scientists don't really understand - it practically says on the tin that you are toying with forces that you do not comprehend, forces that the Fallen Empires - who all have Jump Drives - should know all too well. So, why don't they at least try to warn you that your species is being irresponsible? That the Unbidden could come?

Anyway, it's a minor detail, not overly fussed about it. The ideas that the community is throwing around for the other ethos sound promising, and since Wiz said it's something he was thinking about too I will throw mine out there:

PACIFIST FE
The xenophile one needs to be made the pacifist ethos. They want everyone to be at peace, makes sense right?

XENOPHILE FE
The idea is that they are master geneticists. With uplifting and such, there is alot of design space in this area that right now no Fallen Empire cares about. The idea is that their race spent thousands of years gathering specimens, DNA, etc and now consider it their duty to oversee and "enhance" the species that share their galaxy - whether they like it or not. They would be concerned with the variety of life and genetic diversity, so uplifting another species to help them along or making a smaller, weaker species your protectorate would make them like you - you are helping them ensure that there is a great variety of different genetic material they have access to and can tinker with. On the other hand, purging species, killing space born life or terraforming worlds (which destroys the local biosphere to replace it with your own) would greatly anger them. If you earned their favour, they could reward your species with some genetic enhancements (a new trait point to spend ) or some genetic technology (perhaps instant progress on clone vats or something similar). Perhaps they would make requests like "Protect this species", "That planet has a delicate ecosystem, don't colonize it", "Let us genetically tinker with your colony on planet X" This would make them fit the flavour of being rivals with the xenophobe empire - the xenophobes want no diversity, the xenophiles wanting as much as possible, and you as the player torn between which one best supports your interests. Maybe their ships could have an organic appearance, looking more like they were grown than built.

MILITARIST FE
Some have suggested these guys being concerned with fighting for honour as opposed to just killing everything like the Xenophobes, and that seems to me to be the right track. I love the idea of an ancient warrior kingdom that grew stagnant when it ran out of worthy opponents. I think the idea to these guys would be they don't want to KILL you, they want to FIGHT you. When your fleet size got to a point that rivalled theirs in strength they would challenge you to test your strength (or something). If they wiped out your fleet but you made no attempt to retreat, they would reward you with some of their ships in return for a worthy and honourable fight. If they took planets they would give them back, since with the fight over they would return home. The idea is that they would have a strict code of honour, and would look at the other races to see if they had the potential to live by this code as warriors and equals. If you conquered many worlds, rivaled lots of enemies especially if they were much stronger than you, and made no guarantees of independence or defensive pacts they would show you honour and respect. If you were passive, frequently retreated from battle to hide behind your defense stations, spent more time talking than fighting (aka were part of a federation or lots of other diplomacy), or were so shamefully dishonourable that you actually sent clones and robots to fight for you rather than fight your own battles - with your own skill and strength for your own honor and glory - they would see you as beneath their notice, a weakling and sneak, trying to fight over their scraps and manipulate others with flattery. Maybe these guys could be unique in that they actually like you more if you defeat them - seeing you as some sort of alien warmonger messiah that has come to return their warriors to a new age of glory. Perhaps they would reward players with special troops or weapons technology for impressive acts of conquest, like conquering an empire and not having to retreat or lose a single planet. Since they would be actively promoting senseless warfare and violence, and condemning cooperation, they would be a direct opposite of the Peaceful FE. Again, the players playstyle would force a choice if the 2 fought against each other. I don't know what their ships would look like, but without a doubt they should have by far the most guns, essentially being gun turrets with thrusters on them.

I got no thoughts on collectives or individualists, but I'm sure you guys would think of something cool. I don't normally write anything on the internet, just goes to show how excited I am! Keep up the good work guys, and thanks for keeping us all involved. :D

I rather like your ideas. I hope they actually put some consideration into those FE types.