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Stellaris Dev Diary #57: Species Rights

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary is going to be a meaty one, covering several new features in the 1.5 'Banks' update, as well as some paid features coming in the (unannounced) expansion accompanying Banks. Please note that because of some sickness, we're a little behind in the interface department, so the interface graphics shown today are placeholders and not what will be in the final product.

Species Rights (Free Feature)
The big new feature we'll be talking about today is Species Rights. Previously, what rights your species had were controlled through a set of policies that could only discriminate between 'your founder species' and 'everyone else'. We felt that this was an area in need of more granularity, both to make playing a multispecies empire more interesting and also to create more of a sense of distinction between your pops. Thus, in Banks, it will now be possible to individually determine the rights and obligations of each species in your empire. In addition to setting rights for a species currently in your empire, you can also set rights for species outside your empire (for example granting species you would like to attract to your empire via migration Full Citizenship and a good living standard) and have a default set of rights that is applied to any species you have not specifically configured the rights for.

The most fundamental status of a species in your empire is Citizenship. Citizenship is the overall set of rights and privileges given to a species: Whether they are free or unfree, whether they can participate in the political processes of the country, what restrictions can be placed on them and even whether they have the right to live in your empire at all. In addition to rights and obligations, citizenship also affects Pops' migration attraction: A Pop that is currently enjoying Full Citizenship is unlikely to move to another empire where their rights would be curtailed, and Pops living under second-class citizen conditions are more likely to move somewhere that promises them a better life.
  • Full Citizenship: Species with full citizenship are fully integrated populations in your empire. They have the right to vote in democracies and can become leaders of all types. You are also forbidden from enacting population controls on them.
  • Caste System: Species with a caste system have a mix of full citizenship and slavery, with pops working in the farms and mines being enslaved and the rest being free to enjoy the fruits of the serfs' labor.
  • Limited Citizenship: Species with limited citizenship are tolerated but not integrated populations in your empire. While not enslaved, their right to vote and stand for political office is curtailed, and you can place population restrictions on them and restrict them from being able to settle on your core worlds (more on that below).
  • Slaves: Species with this setting are all enslaved without exception. They have no rights whatsoever and live under the most squalid of conditions.
  • Undesirables: Undesirables are species that you do not wish to exist in your empire. Depending on your purge policy this can either mean that you mean that you target them for extermination, or just try to drive them off from your worlds (more on that below).

Military Service is the martial obligations placed on this species by your empire. It can range from allowing Full Military Service as both soldiers and officers, allowing you to recruit generals and admirals from the species even if they would normally not be allowed to be leaders (for example due to Limited Citizenship) all the way down to a full exemption from all military service.

Living Standards represents how economically favored a population is, for example whether they benefit from social welfare or have restrictions placed on what kinds of occupations they can be employed in. The higher the living standards of a Pop is, the more Consumer Goods it will use, and the happier it will be (more on Consumer Goods below).

Migration Controls determines whether a species is allowed to freely migrate between worlds or not. Restrictions on migrations are always in place for slaves and pops that are being purged.

Population Controls determines whether a species is allowed to grow its population or not. Species with population control will not grow new pops, but neither will their existing pops die off.

In addition to determining what a species is able to do, species rights will also affect a variety of other factors such as happiness and consumer goods (for example, Pops are generally not very pleased about being enslaved or having population controls placed on them). Different factions in your empire will also have different preferences for what species rights you employ, such as Authoritarian pops liking Caste Systems and Supremacist factions being less than happy with granting Full Citizenship to aliens.
2017_01_19_1.png


Purge and Slavery Types (Paid Feature)
In addition to the free species rights given to everyone in the Banks update, there is also a paid element, namely the special Purge and Slavery policies that allows you define in which manner your empire utilizes slavery and purging vis-a-vis specific species. The default options (Chattel Slavery and Extermination) are always available even without the expansion, and those without the expansion can also make use of Displacement via a policy, but the rest are only for expansion owners.

The slavery types are as follows:
  • Chattel Slavery: This represents forced labor on a massive scale. Chattel Slaves have a bonus to food and mineral production and a large penalty to energy/science production and under a Caste System all Pops producing Minerals and Food will be enslaved.
  • Domestic Servitude: This represents a combination of plantation slavery and indentured servitude. Domestic Servants have no boost to any resource production and a small penalty to mineral/energy/science production, but increase the happiness of all non-enslaved citizen pops on the planet.
  • Battle Thralls: This represents a system of enforced martial serfdom. Battle Thralls have no boost to any resource production and a moderate penalty to energy/science production, but armies recruited from them are stronger.
  • Livestock: This represents a species that is regularly culled to be used as food. Livestock produce a fixed number of extra food, but are completely unable to produce any other kind of resource.
The purge types are as follows:
  • Extermination: The species is systemically killed off by any means available. This is the fastest form of purging, but pops subject to it are unable to produce any resources while they are busy dying off.
  • Displacement: The species is driven away through the use of forced resettlement and destruction of their homes. Displaced pops will not be killed, but rather will attempt to flee the empire to other, more welcoming empires, and might even try to settle uncolonized planets. This process is slow, but generates less outrage among other empires than the other forms of purging.
  • Forced Labor: The species is placed in camps and forced to do hard labor under brutal conditions with inadequate food and shelter, effectively working them to death. Pops doing Forced Labor will be killed off more slowly than through extermination, but will continue to produce minerals, food and (at a significant penalty) energy.
  • Processing: The species is processed into food for the consumption of other Pops. Pops being Processed generate a fixed amount of food and die off at a fairly fast pace, but cannot be put to use producing any other resources.
  • Neutering: The species is prevented from reproducing through chemical castration or biological modification, eventually dying off naturally. Neutered Pops continue to function normally and may even be given a high standard of life, but have a large penalty to their happiness. The speed at which they die off varies based on the species' natural lifespan, but is typically very slow.
2017_01_19_3.png


Consumer Goods (Free Feature)
Another issue we're trying to tackle in Banks is mineral inflation. Mineral production has a tendency to snowball in the mid- and lategame, particularly in large, sprawling empires. In order to address this we've introduced a new mineral cost called Consumer Goods. Consumer Goods represents the portion of your industrial base that is occupied with seeing to the needs of your population, ie producing butter instead of guns. Each Pop in your empire will use a certain amount of Consumer Goods each month, with the amount primarily dependent on their living standards. Each unit of consumer goods costs a certain number of minerals dependening on factors such as ethics, traditions, whether your empire is engaged in a defensive war and so on.
2017_01_19_4.png


Refugees and Core Worlds (Free Feature)
The last thing we'll be covering today is some new policies that tie into the mechanics of species rights. The Core Worlds Population policy determines which Pops are allowed to live on your core (non-sector) planets, and can be set to either allow only citizen Pops (Full Citizenship/Caste System), citizen and slave Pops (Full Citizenship/Caste System/Slaves) or open them up to all species. If you restrict your core worlds and there are prohibited Pops living there, they will move away, either migrating to your sectors or fleeing your empire altogether if there is another empire willing to take them. It is also possible for Pops that are enslaved or targeted for extermination to escape your empire, particularly if there is an influential Xenophile faction that is helping them flee.

Whether or not another empire is willing to accept those fleeing purges, slavery and resettlement depends on your Refugees policy. You can choose to accept other species will open arms, allowing refugee Pops to freely move into your empire, be more restrictive and accept only those Pops you have deigned to grant citizenship, or simply shut down acceptance of refugees altogether.
2017_01_19_2.png


Right, that's all for today! Next week we'll be talking about something I know a lot of people have been wanting for some time: Orbital Habitats. Don't miss it.
 
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Maybe if you make your species fully synthetic, you could turn your alien livestock farms into body heat farms a la The Matrix?
Maybe. Or make a setup like what Rick has for the people in his microverse car battery in Rick and Morty- Actually, that works better as an imagined form of a normal slavery than anything. (They even describe it as "slavery with extra steps" in the show.)

Energy-slavery's an odd one because, generally, that's one of the thing they have slaves as really bad at making; making a specifically-for-energy slavery type is a bit of a shift and might mess up the sort of balance they're going for of slave societies being great at simple production but lacking in more complex areas.
That's a good RP option. Like letting a planet to carry on with usual life in exchange for symbolical tribute, in case you simply aren't interested in any of their work and they don't pose a threat anymore.
Yeah, more stuff like that would be really neat, though I wouldn't be surprised if it takes a while before we see stuff like that. Definitely a fun idea though.
You know what's missing from this?

Unethical Science purge, which creates Social tech points in the same way that the Processing purge creates food. For the same reason :V
Vivisecting your population for fun and profit certainly is a both classic and evil sci fi thing. Might be one of the trickier things to balance, though. Also it'd probably only be good for Society (aka. biology) research, barring some... Unusual experiments. Getting physics or engineering points from it seems odd unless you're launching them out of cannons or testing them as a new source of mortar for your buildings. Which, while darkly hilarious, is also extremely silly.
A thought on consumption related traits: tasty / not tasty seems kind of... eh. There isn't really any way to work that into the positive/negative point system reasonably.

However, how about a livestock equivalent of decadent? Parasitic. Your specie requires the hijacking/consumption of other sapient lifeforms as a part of their reproductive process. Without a livestock pop on a planet, parasitic pops suffer a large growth penalty.

With livestock present their growth returns to normal and newly grown pops gain the planet preference of the consumed livestock pop. If there are multiple livestock pops of different species, the specie best adapted to that planet is utilised.

This would naturally make your diplomatic game difficult to say the least. Maybe farming pre-sentients would be a slightly less abhorrent lesser of two evils option?
That's probably just best represented through the use of Decadent at present; a highly-specific specific slavery trait isn't really necessary when there's already a more general one.

As for "Tasty", as I said earlier it'd probably work best as a trait you gene mod onto populations, rather than build a species with (outside of doing so for RP purposes, which are valid and fun). The idea of biologically altering a species so they're better food for your empire is both horrifying and greatly in the spirit of some of the things the coming patch/expansion seems to be adding. Also would definitely be a "positive" trait there, both because mechanically it'd have to be in order to be a trait you can add, and because it's something you're doing for your benefit, rather than as a drawback.
 
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How will genetically modifying your own citizens work with citizen rights? will they be seen as a separate species like they are now? If they are treated separately i could create subspecies to create a genetics based caste system of warriors, miners, farmers leaders and researchers.
 
Very interesting again.
Still...what about balance?
With all those slave-features it sounds like slaver-empires have a huge advantage again.

also what about combat? the current downer for me is that Missiles are so extremely useless and Mass drivers so insanely strong. So even with new empire related features i wouldnt have fun playing the game.

Edit:
and i have thought the caste-system would be more like Warhammer 40k, the Tau Empire. Having a caste of workers (earth), warriors (fire), diplomats (water), pilots (air) and rulers (ethereal)
So that you can set a species to the "workers caste" and all of them are forced to work in the mines, speed up buildings and such things. "pilot caste" would produce better ships, "warrior caste" would make better armies", "diplomat caste" would then increase your relationship with other races and "leader caste" makes better...well...leaders
maybe for the future then?
 
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To everyone who is talking about doom stacks. yeah the combat needs to be fleshed out, but as it is at the moment its still enjoyable. I would rather wait for 1.6 or 1.7 for them to take there time and really flesh it out instead of trying to push in some quick fix. they could probably put in some artificial limit with 1.5 but they would proably make it worse not better.

Give them time and trust them. (wow i dont say that enough about game developers) they know about it, and they want to fix it. i believe they will make some thing great.

We were just tossing around ideas on how the problem might be fixed, I know they will fix it in time
I want to believe
 
Very interesting again.
Still...what about balance?
With all those slave-features it sounds like slaver-empires have a huge advantage again.
Besides not being good at producing certain things, I believe that slavery still has massive happiness penalties and all that, which will be even worse with the overhauled faction system. Plus, your pops you're enslaving or purging can now literally flee your empire; the refugee mechanics seem like they'll help non-slavers (or even people not enslaving those particular aliens) as they get free manpower as a consequence of your atrocities.

Also, back in the Unity and Traditions diary, it was mentioned that harmonious empires can purchase Traditions for less than ones that practice slavery and purging, so you'll probably fall behind there too; nothing slavery does will help you generate more Unity to overcome the increased costs. Traditions seem like really nice bonuses, so not getting those as fast could well offset not matching the resource production slavers can manage.
 
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Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary is going to be a meaty one, covering several new features in the 1.5 'Banks' update, as well as some paid features coming in the (unannounced) expansion accompanying Banks. Please note that because of some sickness, we're a little behind in the interface department, so the interface graphics shown today are placeholders and not what will be in the final product.

Species Rights (Free Feature)
The big new feature we'll be talking about today is Species Rights. Previously, what rights your species had were controlled through a set of policies that could only discriminate between 'your founder species' and 'everyone else'. We felt that this was an area in need of more granularity, both to make playing a multispecies empire more interesting and also to create more of a sense of distinction between your pops. Thus, in Banks, it will now be possible to individually determine the rights and obligations of each species in your empire. In addition to setting rights for a species currently in your empire, you can also set rights for species outside your empire (for example granting species you would like to attract to your empire via migration Full Citizenship and a good living standard) and have a default set of rights that is applied to any species you have not specifically configured the rights for.

The most fundamental status of a species in your empire is Citizenship. Citizenship is the overall set of rights and privileges given to a species: Whether they are free or unfree, whether they can participate in the political processes of the country, what restrictions can be placed on them and even whether they have the right to live in your empire at all. In addition to rights and obligations, citizenship also affects Pops' migration attraction: A Pop that is currently enjoying Full Citizenship is unlikely to move to another empire where their rights would be curtailed, and Pops living under second-class citizen conditions are more likely to move somewhere that promises them a better life.
  • Full Citizenship: Species with full citizenship are fully integrated populations in your empire. They have the right to vote in democracies and can become leaders of all types. You are also forbidden from enacting population controls on them.
  • Caste System: Species with a caste system have a mix of full citizenship and slavery, with pops working in the farms and mines being enslaved and the rest being free to enjoy the fruits of the serfs' labor.
  • Limited Citizenship: Species with limited citizenship are tolerated but not integrated populations in your empire. While not enslaved, their right to vote and stand for political office is curtailed, and you can place population restrictions on them and restrict them from being able to settle on your core worlds (more on that below).
  • Slaves: Species with this setting are all enslaved without exception. They have no rights whatsoever and live under the most squalid of conditions.
  • Undesirables: Undesirables are species that you do not wish to exist in your empire. Depending on your purge policy this can either mean that you mean that you target them for extermination, or just try to drive them off from your worlds (more on that below).

Military Service is the martial obligations placed on this species by your empire. It can range from allowing Full Military Service as both soldiers and officers, allowing you to recruit generals and admirals from the species even if they would normally not be allowed to be leaders (for example due to Limited Citizenship) all the way down to a full exemption from all military service.

Living Standards represents how economically favored a population is, for example whether they benefit from social welfare or have restrictions placed on what kinds of occupations they can be employed in. The higher the living standards of a Pop is, the more Consumer Goods it will use, and the happier it will be (more on Consumer Goods below).

Migration Controls determines whether a species is allowed to freely migrate between worlds or not. Restrictions on migrations are always in place for slaves and pops that are being purged.

Population Controls determines whether a species is allowed to grow its population or not. Species with population control will not grow new pops, but neither will their existing pops die off.

In addition to determining what a species is able to do, species rights will also affect a variety of other factors such as happiness and consumer goods (for example, Pops are generally not very pleased about being enslaved or having population controls placed on them). Different factions in your empire will also have different preferences for what species rights you employ, such as Authoritarian pops liking Caste Systems and Supremacist factions being less than happy with granting Full Citizenship to aliens.
View attachment 232076

Purge and Slavery Types (Paid Feature)
In addition to the free species rights given to everyone in the Banks update, there is also a paid element, namely the special Purge and Slavery policies that allows you define in which manner your empire utilizes slavery and purging vis-a-vis specific species. The default options (Chattel Slavery and Extermination) are always available even without the expansion, and those without the expansion can also make use of Displacement via a policy, but the rest are only for expansion owners.

The slavery types are as follows:
  • Chattel Slavery: This represents forced labor on a massive scale. Chattel Slaves have a bonus to food and mineral production and a large penalty to energy/science production and under a Caste System all Pops producing Minerals and Food will be enslaved.
  • Domestic Servitude: This represents a combination of plantation slavery and indentured servitude. Domestic Servants have no boost to any resource production and a small penalty to mineral/energy/science production, but increase the happiness of all non-enslaved citizen pops on the planet.
  • Battle Thralls: This represents a system of enforced martial serfdom. Battle Thralls have no boost to any resource production and a moderate penalty to energy/science production, but armies recruited from them are stronger.
  • Livestock: This represents a species that is regularly culled to be used as food. Livestock produce a fixed number of extra food, but are completely unable to produce any other kind of resource.
The purge types are as follows:
  • Extermination: The species is systemically killed off by any means available. This is the fastest form of purging, but pops subject to it are unable to produce any resources while they are busy dying off.
  • Displacement: The species is driven away through the use of forced resettlement and destruction of their homes. Displaced pops will not be killed, but rather will attempt to flee the empire to other, more welcoming empires, and might even try to settle uncolonized planets. This process is slow, but generates less outrage among other empires than the other forms of purging.
  • Forced Labor: The species is placed in camps and forced to do hard labor under brutal conditions with inadequate food and shelter, effectively working them to death. Pops doing Forced Labor will be killed off more slowly than through extermination, but will continue to produce minerals, food and (at a significant penalty) energy.
  • Processing: The species is processed into food for the consumption of other Pops. Pops being Processed generate a fixed amount of food and die off at a fairly fast pace, but cannot be put to use producing any other resources.
  • Neutering: The species is prevented from reproducing through chemical castration or biological modification, eventually dying off naturally. Neutered Pops continue to function normally and may even be given a high standard of life, but have a large penalty to their happiness. The speed at which they die off varies based on the species' natural lifespan, but is typically very slow.
View attachment 232078

Consumer Goods (Free Feature)
Another issue we're trying to tackle in Banks is mineral inflation. Mineral production has a tendency to snowball in the mid- and lategame, particularly in large, sprawling empires. In order to address this we've introduced a new mineral cost called Consumer Goods. Consumer Goods represents the portion of your industrial base that is occupied with seeing to the needs of your population, ie producing butter instead of guns. Each Pop in your empire will use a certain amount of Consumer Goods each month, with the amount primarily dependent on their living standards. Each unit of consumer goods costs a certain number of minerals dependening on factors such as ethics, traditions, whether your empire is engaged in a defensive war and so on.
View attachment 232079

Refugees and Core Worlds (Free Feature)
The last thing we'll be covering today is some new policies that tie into the mechanics of species rights. The Core Worlds Population policy determines which Pops are allowed to live on your core (non-sector) planets, and can be set to either allow only citizen Pops (Full Citizenship/Caste System), citizen and slave Pops (Full Citizenship/Caste System/Slaves) or open them up to all species. If you restrict your core worlds and there are prohibited Pops living there, they will move away, either migrating to your sectors or fleeing your empire altogether if there is another empire willing to take them. It is also possible for Pops that are enslaved or targeted for extermination to escape your empire, particularly if there is an influential Xenophile faction that is helping them flee.

Whether or not another empire is willing to accept those fleeing purges, slavery and resettlement depends on your Refugees policy. You can choose to accept other species will open arms, allowing refugee Pops to freely move into your empire, be more restrictive and accept only those Pops you have deigned to grant citizenship, or simply shut down acceptance of refugees altogether.
View attachment 232077

Right, that's all for today! Next week we'll be talking about something I know a lot of people have been wanting for some time: Orbital Habitats. Don't miss it.


The single most exciting dev diary. Thank you based PDX
 
wow this is great, amazing in fact. Did not see this coming.

Will the species that have escaped Your empire make their New host empire get harsher diplomatic penalty towards Your empire? I.e forming their own interest Group trying to force the New host government to declare war on you for Your actions.

And will the New refugee empires on uncolonized planets really hate Your empire from the getgo, seeing as you are the reason for them having to establish New societies from scratch? And will this experience impact these refugee pops ethos? either make them "never again" pacifist or militant?
 
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Is consumption of consumer goods the same for all pops?

It would be very nice if it was different for spiritualist and materialists, and for synths of course.

wow this is great, amazing in fact. Did not see this coming.

Will the species that have escaped Your empire make their New host empire get harsher diplomatic penalty towards Your empire? I.e forming their own interest Group trying to force the New host government to declare war on you for Your actions.

And will the New refugee empires on uncolonized planets really hate Your empire from the getgo, seeing as you are the reason for them having to establish New societies from scratch? And will this experience impact these refugee pops ethos? either make them "never again" pacifist or militant?

A lot of these I agree with. Including Spiritualists consuming less goods due an ascetic lifestyle. While Materialists consume more. Although my bet is you'll have to wait for a good overhaul mod for that.
 
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So if I understood that correctly, migration settings can only prohibit pops moving between your planets, not them fleeing your empire?

Also:
Unless consumer goods are massivly important, it kinda sounds like slavery will be terrible gameplay wise. For the small price of them being worse at their job, having to deal with revolts, and being hated by the empires around you and your liberal pops, you get to keep some minerals.
Am I missing something or is purging/taking away rights not intended to be a good strategy and just exist for RP reasons?

(Which would be totally fine, Im not complaining.)
 
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Can we focus on fact that this mechanics will DISCONTINUE PLAYERS CHOICE ON ENSLAVED POPS!!!!!

Seriously I don't get it why we can't allow collaborators to be full citizen. It's like Vichy and conquered France. French collaborators were able to live normal lives while the rest had it hard. Why do you force racism while there should be ability to create nationalism as well - and nation can be divert in race as long as the have the same views on how country run.

If this stays as just "click and allow AI to process the rest" we will take a huge step back.

Caste system: collaborators get cushy jobs being scientist and energy technicians. Everyone else gets to spend a whole load of fun times digging out their own tombs (The Imperial Empire's mining H&S is basically non-existant).
 
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You could genemod it in to species you capture/integrate, rather than put it on your own species, perhaps. Engineer the species to be even better food for your people. Or put it on a custom alien species you aren't playing but want to have show up in your galaxy.

(I'd love to see more things like this, tangentially, traits that are for being modded into species, yours or others, in addition to having all the starting traits as genemod options. I think it'd be pretty neat.)

On a tangent, while it makes sense that you can't, I kind of wish you could raise Livestock slaves' standard of living. While it's obviously for using a species as, well, livestock, treating them like cattle, I kind of like the idea of some empires being able to do something more like... Well, hm, best example I can think of are the Harika and Yorn from the not-so-good Star Control. Something where some people in the empire are regular citizens and have regular rights or are even well-respected perhaps, but are also sometimes eaten by another species. Which may well be the reason they're respected, as some sort of traditional or religious thing. Or maybe they're just luxury food raised in the best of conditions by their masters.

It's a very dumb and niche thing, but everyone talking about eating other species in this thread made me think of it, so I figured I'd throw it out while we're on the topic. It can probably be modded in, anyway.
You're probablly right. The general idea of a "this species makes better cattle... yay?" trait still leaves a bit of a...

*puts on sunglasses on top of sunglasses*

...bad taste in my mouth

But restricting it to gene-modding at least makes some sense.
 
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I feel sort of conflicted by some of this stuff, specially the purging/slavery. I don't know, I think it leaves a bad taste in the mouth if you stop to think about it - but at the same time, I think it *should* leave that bad taste if these things are ever present as game features.

A lot of historical games shy away from presenting slavery in any meaningful way, because it's so controversial and, well, on the nose for a lot of people. Science fiction can sometimes deal with these issues better by fantasticalizing (?) the elements.

That is part of the point, and the discussion should always be there.
In science fiction we can adress the dialogue, a very common example is 'would you kill hitler, if you had the chance to go back in time'.
Sacrifice a live, for millions?
What about sacrificing billions to save trillions?
If you knew with certainty that annihilating an entire race from extinction would save all the life in the galaxy, would you?
What about sacrificing personal privileges to benefit the common good?
 
So if I understood that correctly, migration settings can only prohibit pops moving between your planets, not them fleeing your empire?

Also:
Unless consumer goods are massivly important, it kinda sounds like slavery will be terrible gameplay wise. For the small price of them being worse at their job, having to deal with revolts, and being hated by the empires around you and your liberal pops, you get to keep some minerals.
Am I missing something or is purging/taking away rights not intended to be a good strategy and just exist for RP reasons?

(Which would be totally fine, Im not complaining.)

Purging has always been RP in stellaris sad to say, I would love to play as a purger, but if the gameplay purging has is a "KAPHOOSH!" sound and nothing more then really purging is too metaphysical for me.

As for slavery, they take less consumer goods and produce more minerals, but more importantly in my games having slavery is essential as the pops that are not enslaved form dozens of different rebell Groups. Easier to enslave them all and just influence to Control them.
 
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Also @Wiz can we go all soylent green and process people and feed them to other people? I feel like there should be a way to do that... (maybe an event? :p)
 
RE: Livestock slavery producing a net gain despite inefficiency of meat. I guess maybe the implication is that the livestock slaves are set to work on conventional farming before being culled, with working conditions as harsh as possible without unnecessarily toughening their meat (which rules out mining)? So the life of a livestock slave isn't dissimilar from that of a more conventional slave except for the, y'know, a chance of being chosen according to the dark whims of alien overlords to serve as an entree, with the hydroponically grown veggies you were made to grow as your side salad.

EDIT: Good heavens, I've played many hours of Crusader Kings and that still might be the wrongest thing I've ever written.
 
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1.5, "Banks", is shaping up to be an amazing patch. This is all the stuff I hoped to see before the game launched, and it's finally coming!

Of all the upcoming patch/DLC of the 4 major Paradox games (as of right now), this is the only one I'm excited for. Please take your time and get it right... but hurry too. :D
 
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whats so funny ?

nothing wrong with adding more details on how populations grow and needing manpower for ground troops



with this mechanic there is no real reason why you shouldn't be able to see the age of a pop, and no your downvotes doesn't mean anything if all you can do is "laugh at" users instead of doing something constructive instead
Because a POP is not a single person/being, it's a representation of up to billions of them. (As indicated by Wiz several times in this thread regarding selective purging etc.) A POP dieing after neutering is more like the society on that tile (be it city or region that you wish to RP it) falls apart due to the falling numbers and can't actually perform the tasks relevant to that tile anymore.

EDIT: Actually, having the game set a random average starting age and chance for collapse once past the given death ages like leaders would be a nice way to make this thing work. Also makes Venerable more interesting to interact with on a POP level, rather than leaders.
 
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